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Post by mattscold on Nov 27, 2007 12:02:12 GMT
And before I get slated is there any possibility that rasto may play another role in the team? Highly unlikely i would have thought I think very soon we will have seen the last of the little guy.
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Post by heatley on Nov 27, 2007 12:04:28 GMT
Fair play to Mike Ellis, he isn't afraid to make potentially controversial decisions. YES we all love Rasto, & the wee fella did essentially win us the play-offs...but we have to look to the future, & you win nothing on sentiment alone.
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Post by heja on Nov 27, 2007 12:08:10 GMT
seems like a good move by ellis eg not to gas rasto yet to see if askey is any good if he is rasto goes if he isn't rasto stays, plus it will give the number one some competition eg you don't play well you don't play
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Post by martinski83 on Nov 27, 2007 12:08:12 GMT
I have a few feelings about this one:
I think the word I am looking for is scapegoat. I think it might be a case of who can we blame this time round...
Last season we went for Evan and it paid off. He wasn't the best, people were underwhelmed to start with, it was easy to criticise him and the Coach made a good call. It worked, the fans bought into the strategy got behind the team and we came home with the playoffs and a few new heroes in Rasto and Gallant.
This year has been somewhat disjoined though. Many of us were doing cartwheels in the summer seeing all our heroes back and once again doing that English thing where we big ourselves up then fall spectacularly on our face.
Shep was a naughty boy and a team chasing the league cannot go an import down for 10 games. Shep had to go. Sad but true. He was just finding his feet and one moment of madness cost him.
Things haven't really improved too much since then. Too much tinkering with the 2nd line, a question over the overall fitness, D men stuck behind the offensive goal on the break leaving our netminder woefully exposed.
Is Shymr an enforcer, a forward or a d man? Is Pelts a forward? Can Stancok keep his stick down....
I could go on...
Rasto... well personally speaking I feel for the guy, I really do... but my own sentiments aside the coach felt he had to make a change and so lets give Askey a chance.
My opinions on Askey are that his stats dont overwhelm me and he's done poorly in a league below the standard of the EIHL this season. However, I will reserve judgement till i've seen him play, live, 6-8 times.
I think we can expect an impact. The d may go up in confidence and we may get two wins on the bounce with him in the net, but when the momentum of his signing dies down.... the paper wont cover the cracks and we'll see the same awful hang-your-goalie-out-to-dry defence, no league title, a tired looking team and be left here, talking big on our cage forum saying well 'XX made no difference. what is ellis doing, gary moran should be axed because..., burgers are too expensive'
Same old same old.
I think a lot of people have given Rasto some fair criticism and some have given him some unjust criticism. I am just waiting to see how long it is before Askey starts getting some of the criticism Rasto did, before we start blaming him....
I stand by what I've always said: Our issue this season isn't our n/m it's our d. Check back with me in April.
That said: Welcome to Nottingham TA and good luck.
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Post by paek on Nov 27, 2007 12:11:06 GMT
[ Nieckar Jinman Droiun Cadotte The list is endless Nieckar & Cadotte were never an ex-Panthers, they played with us for three seasons. Jinman played a significant role when he returned to us in 2003-4 and Drouin put up the numbers in the French league before coming back. I'd agree that signing ex-players who are coming to the end of their careers is silly or expecting a player to replicate what they did for the team seasons ago (ie Sebastien) but it's not always folly.
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Milkman™
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Post by Milkman™ on Nov 27, 2007 12:13:04 GMT
I think the word I am looking for is scapegoat. I think it might be a case of who can we blame this time round... As you say Martin, recent history repeating itself all over. Good luck to the new guy, big gloves to step into (lets be honest though rasto only ever had 5 good solid games for Panthers) NO other club in this league go through this tactic though, I wonder why that is?
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Post by heja on Nov 27, 2007 12:14:00 GMT
And before I get slated is there any possibility that rasto may play another role in the team? Highly unlikely i would have thought I think very soon we will have seen the last of the little guy. goalie coach maybe?? that way as well we can hang on to his ITC card and if the number on gets injured in comes rasto or go with 9 import skaters, aint hurt us yet
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Cav
Pat Casey
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Post by Cav on Nov 27, 2007 12:22:44 GMT
If Coventry re-sign players it's called CONTINUITY. If Nottm re-sign players it's called SENTIMENTALITY !
Mike Ellis has proved beyond any doubt that sentimentality doesn't come into the equation. He's been quoted as saying that he's not here to win any popularity contest, and he's proved that by gassing favourites (of some) such as Simoes, Moran, Cooke, Drouin & possibly Rasto.
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Warren
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Post by Warren on Nov 27, 2007 12:38:09 GMT
The difference between re-signing someone who played for you last season is continuity. Signing a guy who played for you X season's ago and not since is sentimentality.
As some have said, The signing of Rasto was damned if you do, damned if you don't. Many said that Rasto would not make the season either through injury or bad luck. there are allot of ifs and buts associated with the whole scenario and I for one don't want to go through them all.
So good look Askey, hope you can turn the season round.
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Post by pantherskatie on Nov 27, 2007 12:40:38 GMT
awww im abit gutted Rasto has to make way....but can't wait to see this new guy in action. Welcome to nottingham Tom Askey
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Nov 27, 2007 12:54:31 GMT
(lets be honest though rasto only ever had 5 good solid games for Panthers) Yeah, right - and you base that sweeping statement on what? Care to name exactly which games those were? And why you think other games - where we won - he was not solid? Exactly how many games have you seen Rasto play in? Belfast ditching their netminder and bringing in Stevie Lyle? Several teams giving notice to players, ditching some of them and bringing in others.... there's plenty of it going around. Belfast, Cardiff, Coventry, Edinburgh, Hull... yadda yadda yadda. Care to tell us exactly what basis of information you use for these statements of yours?
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Post by cc77 on Nov 27, 2007 12:58:38 GMT
I have to say that I do feel that texpef's post is extremely pertinent. There is a very cosy and loyal feeling about the Panthers when viewed from outside. I'm not saying it's a bad thing because how can "nice" be bad, however I feel it does hinder your advance towards being a winning franchise. The ruthlessness that some of your rivals have is rarely demonstrated in the cosy environs of the NIC. This is partly a good thing. My own personal belief is that the Nottingham Fans are probably the most loyal set. Their numbers have remained disproportionately high considering the poor performance of the team and what I regard from the outside, as a genuine sense of disregard from the franchise as a whole. The loyalty is because you are actually nice. Where this permeates through to the team though I feel it has become a real disadvantage. The Panthers really do lack a killer edge and although some people call you "pussycats" in a disparaging way, in essence, that is quite an accurate analogy of the team ethic. Rick, good post. Some very good points from an outsider. Thanks, given me something to think about thats for sure.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2007 13:02:35 GMT
First off, welcome to Nottingham Tom, I hope your stay is a successful one.
I feel sorry for Rasto though. He was a huge contributing factor to our play-off success and I felt he had earned another contract. However it hasn't worked out and fair play to Mike Ellis for making yet another difficult decision regarding a fan favourite. Rasto has been shakey this season and hasn't inspired confidence like he did last, however his defence have left him out to dry on many occasions, but it's become obvious that some of the D have lost confidence in him and that can't be allowed to go on. As has been said before, sentiment will win you nothing in sport and tough decisions have to be made if we want to be winners.
Good luck Rasto in all your future endevours.
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Post by NickThePanther44 on Nov 27, 2007 13:08:18 GMT
Milkman, i agree with you regarding Drouin, a definite dissapointment. Cadotte also, he got worse each season he was here but Nieckar and Jinman, i can't see why they were bad signings.
Martinski, as i understand it chap the Italian league where Askey previously played this term is a decent level above the EIHL.
Ellis has once again proven that the club comes first and that he's not going to put his personal pride before the team's success, as a fan i thank him for that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2007 13:13:50 GMT
Hi all...my first post on the Cage...
As an opposition (Blaze) fan, the appeal of Rovnianek to the Panthers faithful has always been something of a mystery to me, based purely on his playing ability-sure, he's a character but he's tended to look a little shaky in the times I've seen him both this season and last-rebound control a little dodgy and a tendency to wander mean that I've never really thought "my, the Blaze'll have to work hard to score tonight" as I do with, say, Osaer or MacDonald. In the times I've seen the Panthers this season, though the defensive frailties (i.e Stancok) have been glaring-like martinski says, Rasti is very much being made a scapegoat despite being hung out to dry by his defence more often than not.
It will be interesting to see what the stance is if Askey comes in and goals are still being shipped despite his best efforts-will it take until then for the Panthers coaches to realise that perhaps the major problem is elsewhere?
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Post by cc77 on Nov 27, 2007 13:14:20 GMT
Maybe Ellis is going with joint #1 Netminders for a while to see how it goes. Could be a good move. It also gives wooly a chance to go back to Romford on loan or another EPL Team & get some game experience. Have just been told that Rasto was released this morning and is flying home tomorrow. However he will return next week to sort out his belongings before returning back home. I would like to wish Rasto the best of luck in the future. Lets face it he`s never going to be forgotten by the fans, both in playing a HUGE part in our play off success last season, and for his end of game celebrations. Rasto... you will be talked about for many seasons to come, thanks for the good times. Now it`s time to welcome Tom to Nottingham, hope you`ve got a thick skin and broad shoulders cos you sure are going to need them.
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MP
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Post by MP on Nov 27, 2007 13:21:30 GMT
however I feel it does hinder your advance towards being a winning franchise. The ruthlessness that some of your rivals have is rarely demonstrated in the cosy environs of the NIC. Aye, things might be a bit cosy around here but Panthers fans have had hockey to watch most weekend for forty years or more - plenty of fans around the country would like the chance of that. There's a difference between winning and being successful.
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Post by paek on Nov 27, 2007 13:29:15 GMT
I've found a link for Tom's win/losses while at Rochester. It's a couple of years old now and doesn't have info on his record in Italy.
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Post by KimThePanther on Nov 27, 2007 13:35:18 GMT
I would like to wish Rasto the best of luck in the future. Well said Dawn. It might not have been a vintage Championship but the events of last April will live long in the memory and were down in no small part to him. All the best Rasto! Askey has some very big boots to fill. Good look to him.
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MP
Paul Adey
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Post by MP on Nov 27, 2007 13:35:27 GMT
It will be interesting to see what the stance is if Askey comes in and goals are still being shipped despite his best efforts Hi Paul - welcome to the Cage. If I'm honest, I still expect us to ship goals unless we strengthen the defence as well. Hopefully not quite so many and with luck Askey will give the team more confidence and that might convert into more goals at the other end of the ice. He'll have his work cutout though - our current defensive corps finds it very hard to stay focused on the defensive aspect of the game and the number of turnovers and failed clearances in our own zone we suffer from are bound to put pressure on the goalie. Still, look on the bright side - the change of goalie last season certainly inspired the team and fans alike and when he played with confidence Rasto was a very effective keeper indeed, despite always appearing to be "lucky" or in imminent danger of conceding.
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Nov 27, 2007 13:59:13 GMT
whats wrong with signing ex players? Nieckar Jinman Droiun Cadotte The list is endless Aye, re-signing Jinman was a nightmare.......
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Milkman™
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Post by Milkman™ on Nov 27, 2007 14:04:36 GMT
(lets be honest though rasto only ever had 5 good solid games for Panthers) Yeah, right - and you base that sweeping statement on what? Care to name exactly which games those were? And why you think other games - where we won - he was not solid? Exactly how many games have you seen Rasto play in? Belfast ditching their netminder and bringing in Stevie Lyle? Several teams giving notice to players, ditching some of them and bringing in others.... there's plenty of it going around. Belfast, Cardiff, Coventry, Edinburgh, Hull... yadda yadda yadda. Care to tell us exactly what basis of information you use for these statements of yours? Yadda yadda yadda Well show me a club that has ditched its 2 biggest signings, and probably the biggest earners too. Rasto won the games that counted on penalties, simple as, one trick pony if you like, problem is this year teams are not and wont let it get to penalties and we don't have the D to prevent teams scoring. So it boils down to how many times I have seen him does it?, poor argument mister, I expect better from you. If he was top notch, like our coach we would be top the league, we are not. Just to add these are my opinions and as you like to cover all bases, what do I know, the same as you however from where I am, I believe I am able to put a reasonably objective view forward. To quote yourself Looks like Mike agrees with me re Rasto
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Milkman™
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Post by Milkman™ on Nov 27, 2007 14:08:20 GMT
Nieckar Jinman Droiun Cadotte The list is endless Aye, re-signing Jinman was a nightmare....... Love Lee to bits, what did he bring to the table them seasons, as a top 5 league player we still won nothing. Sold some shirts though I bet
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Post by KimThePanther on Nov 27, 2007 14:15:05 GMT
as a top 5 league player we still won nothing. Apart from a Challenge Cup.
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Post by Fraggle on Nov 27, 2007 14:15:07 GMT
lets be honest though rasto only ever had 5 good solid games for Panthers Glad it's not just me that thinks that. Rasto was shaky last season, however as he was apparently outstanding at the playoffs weekend and pretty much won us the play offs, he was re-signed. I'm not sayign he didn't deserve a 2nd season with us, but I for one never expected him to be solid this season. I guess witha better defence in front he could have been ok, but nothign more than that. Unless of course every game went to penalties.... Having said all of that I do wish Rasto all the best for the future, whatever it holds, and welcome to Nottingham Tom.
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