Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 11:13:35 GMT
Well the scoreboard cost in the region of 450k you honestly don't think that was funded by those facilities fees do you.. seems a bit of coincidence that Panthers seem to have assembled a cheaper team at the same time that was purchased.. I would not be surprised if Panthers paid some towards it being as it will be mainly used for Panthers (as concerts have their own screens etc.
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Post by bobness on Aug 6, 2019 11:21:54 GMT
When I’ve got the time tonight I’ll punch so many holes in that it will be like a colander. £1000 a week for all 22 players and a £1000 a week for housing rent ? 😳😳😳 Knock yourself out. I offered already. It's meant to be a debate, an exchange of views, not about who is or isn't "right", we've covered this before. I don't mind being corrected and/or debated with, that's the difference. Just so you don't completely waste your time. It's an average of £1000 for each player, and yes, that figure is debatable. And it's £1000 a month for housing. A figure which, like all of them, is debatable. Also debatable are the revenue figures, average yield per ticket, Arena hire costs etc. And there's VAT off ticket prices, and player flights, and ITC cards etc, as people have pointed out And for all these people saying "We have the most income so we should spend the most", that rather depends on whether Panthers have the most costs, doesn't it? (Simply put, if your ice is cheaper, then the revenue can be less and still leave the same difference. Even simpler put, 20 minus 15 is the same as 12 minus 7.) What this shows is you don't have be outlandish to show that £1.75m a year in profit from a £3m turnover business isn't a wholly defensible position.
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grrm
Pat Casey
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Post by grrm on Aug 6, 2019 11:23:31 GMT
I hope everyone has deducted at least 10% from the ticket revenue as that seems to be the amount of freebie tickets most of the posters on here claim are given out at each game? You’re getting bogged down in trivial figures, all clubs probably give out freebies, granted Panthers more than most, but this won’t magically mean Panthers no longer have the biggest income.
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EMB
Randall Weber
Posts: 4,045
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Post by EMB on Aug 6, 2019 11:31:28 GMT
Well the scoreboard cost in the region of 450k you honestly don't think that was funded by those facilities fees do you.. seems a bit of coincidence that Panthers seem to have assembled a cheaper team at the same time that was purchased.. I would not be surprised if Panthers paid some towards it being as it will be mainly used for Panthers (as concerts have their own screens etc. The scoreboard cost has been 'loaned' or paid up front (whichever way you want to look at it ) to the arena by NB with an instalment plan for payback. (from someone who works there)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 11:42:02 GMT
Well the scoreboard cost in the region of 450k you honestly don't think that was funded by those facilities fees do you.. seems a bit of coincidence that Panthers seem to have assembled a cheaper team at the same time that was purchased.. I would not be surprised if Panthers paid some towards it being as it will be mainly used for Panthers (as concerts have their own screens etc. The scoreboard cost has been 'loaned' or paid up front (whichever way you want to look at it ) to the arena by NB with an instalment plan for payback. (from someone who works there) So that could explain it then? Why hes given the Panthers less of a budget lol
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Post by bobness on Aug 6, 2019 11:49:40 GMT
Tax also has to be taken into account in these ‘fag packet’ calculations, especially VAT as that will take 20% of ticket & merchandise revenue. Good point. There's 16.66% off your ticket revenue for a start. £350k ish. That will pay for the cheaper players and their cardboard boxes that they live in.
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grrm
Pat Casey
Posts: 223
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Post by grrm on Aug 6, 2019 12:24:18 GMT
Tax also has to be taken into account in these ‘fag packet’ calculations, especially VAT as that will take 20% of ticket & merchandise revenue. Good point. There's 16.66% off your ticket revenue for a start. £350k ish. That will pay for the cheaper players and their cardboard boxes that they live in. That’s just not fair - how come the others teams don’t pay vat? wait a minute, they do!!!
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Aug 6, 2019 12:28:35 GMT
Good point. There's 16.66% off your ticket revenue for a start. £350k ish. That will pay for the cheaper players and their cardboard boxes that they live in. That’s just not fair - how come the others teams don’t pay vat? wait a minute, they do!!! Ah but perhaps Panthers use more pucks and break more sticks than all the other teams too so that’s where the money goes ! 🤣🤣
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Post by kievthegreat on Aug 6, 2019 12:37:38 GMT
Tax also has to be taken into account in these ‘fag packet’ calculations, especially VAT as that will take 20% of ticket & merchandise revenue. Good point. There's 16.66% off your ticket revenue for a start. £350k ish. That will pay for the cheaper players and their cardboard boxes that they live in. Dont start with the VAT with specifics as it's far from straightforward. While they'll charge and pay VAT on all the stuff they sell (with exceptions such as children's clothing), they then claim back the VAT on everything they buy so you also reduce the arena hire bill, any equipment purchased, etc... Obviously as a business where the majority of its income comes from VAT carrying ticket sales they'll pay more than they claim back, but you can't discount all the business costs they'll claim back on.
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boeser
Jade Galbraith
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Post by boeser on Aug 6, 2019 13:17:32 GMT
The difference is in January half of the season has gone and when they are failing then there is justification for all the criticism. We haven’t got a full team signed yet and not seen them hit the ice. Why not give them a chance first? Like I said earlier,from watching many years of it my opinion is that this team won’t be good enough again. Seen it happen too many times before. It’s just as valid as the blind faith person who thinks every signing is fabulous. If there was no negativity Black would think everything was fine and there would have been no change.
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boeser
Jade Galbraith
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Post by boeser on Aug 6, 2019 13:23:43 GMT
Sorry, I meant to add a question for Iginla to the quoted post. Genuine question Iginla, do you think NB takes the slightest bit of notice to what’s posted on this forum?
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meadow
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 179
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Post by meadow on Aug 6, 2019 13:33:37 GMT
Well the scoreboard cost in the region of 450k you honestly don't think that was funded by those facilities fees do you.. seems a bit of coincidence that Panthers seem to have assembled a cheaper team at the same time that was purchased.. I would not be surprised if Panthers paid some towards it being as it will be mainly used for Panthers (as concerts have their own screens etc. The scoreboard cost has been 'loaned' or paid up front (whichever way you want to look at it ) to the arena by NB with an instalment plan for payback. (from someone who works there) This sounds like a bizarre arrangement! Although it does accord with the rumours of the NIC losing money. I'd imagine the Bermuda Boys have cooked up a suitably plumb interest rate for their expenditure! Just to add to the confusion over running costs etc - there was also a time when some of the player housing was provided by sponsors at a very favourable rate (particular story I heard was that one of the sponsors had a flat in the lace market that was provided to 'marquee' players at almost no cost to the club). Who is recruited also factors into housing costs year on year - young guys like Whistle, Golovkovs, Malmqvist can share a house, where thats not going to happen for a more senior (in age or CV) player.
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Post by bobness on Aug 6, 2019 13:37:40 GMT
Good point. There's 16.66% off your ticket revenue for a start. £350k ish. That will pay for the cheaper players and their cardboard boxes that they live in. Dont start with the VAT with specifics as it's far from straightforward. While they'll charge and pay VAT on all the stuff they sell (with exceptions such as children's clothing), they then claim back the VAT on everything they buy so you also reduce the arena hire bill, any equipment purchased, etc... Obviously as a business where the majority of its income comes from VAT carrying ticket sales they'll pay more than they claim back, but you can't discount all the business costs they'll claim back on. The difference is, I guess, that we know exactly what the ex and post VAT price of a ticket is. We have no real idea what the ex and post VAT price of hiring the arena is. And whether it varies with day of the week, for example. And a large chunk of the costs of Panthers is people costs. And they don't attract VAT at all. Is it actually the Arena that accounts for the VAT on tickets (as they actually sell the tickets) and they settle with Panthers net? (same difference, I guess, but...) Who knows?
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Aug 6, 2019 14:23:30 GMT
The scoreboard cost has been 'loaned' or paid up front (whichever way you want to look at it ) to the arena by NB with an instalment plan for payback. (from someone who works there) This sounds like a bizarre arrangement! Although it does accord with the rumours of the NIC losing money. I'd imagine the Bermuda Boys have cooked up a suitably plumb interest rate for their expenditure! Just to add to the confusion over running costs etc - there was also a time when some of the player housing was provided by sponsors at a very favourable rate (particular story I heard was that one of the sponsors had a flat in the lace market that was provided to 'marquee' players at almost no cost to the club). Who is recruited also factors into housing costs year on year - young guys like Whistle, Golovkovs, Malmqvist can share a house, where thats not going to happen for a more senior (in age or CV) player. I’m so glad somebody mentioned free apartments from sponsors. Because one of them in the Lace Market was mine and I let Panthers have it for free for FOUR years.....and they still crapped on me and my family. So now you know just one of the reasons Panthers are not top of my favourite people’s list. There is also another apartment on Thurland Street which belongs to Neil Black which you could argue comes free to them too.
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Yotes
Forum Admin
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Post by Yotes on Aug 6, 2019 14:45:48 GMT
You must've been a right happy clapper 😉
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Post by pingchowchi on Aug 6, 2019 14:50:33 GMT
What do you get in return for giving them free accommodation? I'd want a damn site more than a season ticket and a free pass to the panther quiz night for that!
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Post by bobness on Aug 6, 2019 15:01:56 GMT
Ah, I think the fog of understanding is clearing...
Sounds very GM-like to me.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 15:22:59 GMT
I’m so glad somebody mentioned free apartments from sponsors. Because one of them in the Lace Market was mine and I let Panthers have it for free for FOUR years.....and they still crapped on me and my family. So now you know just one of the reasons Panthers are not top of my favourite people’s list. There is also another apartment on Thurland Street which belongs to Neil Black which you could argue comes free to them too. Are you related to Milkman (Therapy?) who posted 6 or 7 years ago?. His gripe with Panthers/GM was related to being crapped on. Something to do with photography, as I recall. He posted in a very similar vein to you for several years. *Sorry mucked up the quote editing. This was in answer to Iginla and not meadow
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meadow
Jade Galbraith
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Post by meadow on Aug 6, 2019 15:28:01 GMT
This sounds like a bizarre arrangement! Although it does accord with the rumours of the NIC losing money. I'd imagine the Bermuda Boys have cooked up a suitably plumb interest rate for their expenditure! Just to add to the confusion over running costs etc - there was also a time when some of the player housing was provided by sponsors at a very favourable rate (particular story I heard was that one of the sponsors had a flat in the lace market that was provided to 'marquee' players at almost no cost to the club). Who is recruited also factors into housing costs year on year - young guys like Whistle, Golovkovs, Malmqvist can share a house, where thats not going to happen for a more senior (in age or CV) player. I’m so glad somebody mentioned free apartments from sponsors. Because one of them in the Lace Market was mine and I let Panthers have it for free for FOUR years.....and they still crapped on me and my family. So now you know just one of the reasons Panthers are not top of my favourite people’s list. There is also another apartment on Thurland Street which belongs to Neil Black which you could argue comes free to them too. Wow - I'm actually quite shocked that what I'd heard was actually true, normally take any of these panthers stories / rumours kicking around with a pinch of salt! Is reliance of sponsor freebies a fairly widespread practice then in terms of housing players??
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Aug 6, 2019 15:34:10 GMT
You must've been a right happy clapper 😉 Oh was for a few years then I learnt my lesson. ie. Do not ever deal with,trust or sponsor Nottingham Panthers !
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Aug 6, 2019 15:35:40 GMT
What do you get in return for giving them free accommodation? I'd want a damn site more than a season ticket and a free pass to the panther quiz night for that! I’ll tell you what we got actually after those four years. A Mike Ellis shirt !!!! 🙄
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Jord v4
Ken Westman
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 2,714
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Post by Jord v4 on Aug 6, 2019 15:36:38 GMT
Sorry, I meant to add a question for Iginla to the quoted post. Genuine question Iginla, do you think NB takes the slightest bit of notice to what’s posted on this forum? I can answer this & this is a 100% guarantee.
The only Panthers person who used to read this forum was Calum the SM guy. Absolutely no one at Panthers reads this forum now, no matter what some may think.
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Post by allingtonskates on Aug 6, 2019 15:37:17 GMT
Final forward incoming.... you got anything new on this signing?
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Jord v4
Ken Westman
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 2,714
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Post by Jord v4 on Aug 6, 2019 15:39:03 GMT
This sounds like a bizarre arrangement! Although it does accord with the rumours of the NIC losing money. I'd imagine the Bermuda Boys have cooked up a suitably plumb interest rate for their expenditure! Just to add to the confusion over running costs etc - there was also a time when some of the player housing was provided by sponsors at a very favourable rate (particular story I heard was that one of the sponsors had a flat in the lace market that was provided to 'marquee' players at almost no cost to the club). Who is recruited also factors into housing costs year on year - young guys like Whistle, Golovkovs, Malmqvist can share a house, where thats not going to happen for a more senior (in age or CV) player. So now you know just one of the reasons Panthers are not top of my favourite people’s list. How about the other reasons...??
Come on Iggy, in for a penny...
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Jord v4
Ken Westman
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 2,714
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Post by Jord v4 on Aug 6, 2019 15:41:25 GMT
Final forward incoming.... you got anything new on this signing? Nope, just not a centre is all I gleemed a few days ago.. & that it's agreed internally but not to be announced yet (This was Sunday).
I'll let you know if I can prize out anything more.
Edit - A RH right winger makes the most sense to me.
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