Dan
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Post by Dan on Dec 19, 2016 16:07:39 GMT
The best protest is always to vote with your feet and don't go. Empty arenas sack coaches quicker than results. You seem to be full of big words on this thread Pidge. What action have YOU taken and what have YOU organised? There you are again.. singling people out. You'll never learn. He has a point in fairness, you talk the big talk and big actions. Have you done anything, or are you planning to? The problem over the years has been the disgruntled masses don't actually do anything about it, i'm as guilty as anyone in that regard.
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Dec 19, 2016 16:08:03 GMT
I see Corey is in the Evening Post today making excuses again that we lose games because we are short of bodies.
And who's fault is it that we are !!!
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Dec 19, 2016 16:11:07 GMT
I see Corey is in the Evening Post today making excuses again that we lose games because we are short of bodies. And who's fault is it that we are !!! Hmm, agreed. One or two seasons can be dismissed as sheer bad luck but that doesn't hold for long. This club has habitually suffered with injuries and short benches, it isn't a coincidence at this point. Forest are having the same issue, we've had at least half a dozen injuries at any one time for nearly a decade. It's time we find out why.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2016 17:15:14 GMT
I see Corey is in the Evening Post today making excuses again that we lose games because we are short of bodies. And who's fault is it that we are !!! Hmm, agreed. One or two seasons can be dismissed as sheer bad luck but that doesn't hold for long. This club has habitually suffered with injuries and short benches, it isn't a coincidence at this point. Forest are having the same issue, we've had at least half a dozen injuries at any one time for nearly a decade. It's time we find out why. The exception to all of this is the year when we worked with M10 Fitness (I think that's what they are/where called) and we went a whole season without a major injury and we won the Grand Slam. I think Fox (knee), Tuma (always hurt) & Weaver (hand) are the only players who missed some time but they all got back on the ice in good time.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2016 17:17:54 GMT
I see Corey is in the Evening Post today making excuses again that we lose games because we are short of bodies. And who's fault is it that we are !!! Maybe it's Corey having a subtle dig at the organisation? He could easily have not mentioned it. I can't for a second think he isn't as frustrated as everyone else that he doesn't have a full compliment of players available to him.
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Dec 19, 2016 17:29:55 GMT
I see Corey is in the Evening Post today making excuses again that we lose games because we are short of bodies. And who's fault is it that we are !!! Maybe it's Corey having a subtle dig at the organisation? He could easily have not mentioned it. I can't for a second think he isn't as frustrated as everyone else that he doesn't have a full compliment of players available to him. Not buying it. With the crowds that Panthers get and their standing in the British game,it is not an excuse. They have let our Brit pack disintegrate. They knew the likes of Schultz,Waugh and Dimmen were going to be lengthy injuries and didn't replace. They should know we will have injuries,we could easily afford spares from the start,but we don't sign them.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2016 17:36:07 GMT
Maybe it's Corey having a subtle dig at the organisation? He could easily have not mentioned it. I can't for a second think he isn't as frustrated as everyone else that he doesn't have a full compliment of players available to him. Not buying it. With the crowds that Panthers get and their standing in the British game,it is not an excuse. They have let our Brit pack disintegrate. They knew the likes of Schultz,Waugh and Dimmen were going to be lengthy injuries and didn't replace. They should know we will have injuries,we could easily afford spares from the start,but we don't sign them. But is that down to Corey or are his hands tied? He's proven multiple times with a full line-up at his disposal he's the best coach in this league so I don't imagine he enjoys this situation anymore than you do.
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Post by Kovalchuk17 on Dec 19, 2016 18:25:22 GMT
The article read to me like Corey was having a moan about the fans. Rightly or wrongly, I read it to be him basically whinging that he gets criticism from fans who are stupid and don't understand his woes.
He tries to tell us how much all the players care but in recent Panthers.co.uk interviews he's bemoaned players not giving enough!
He blames tired players and too many injuries yet it happens year-after-year (from 2013/14 onwards)... maybe the 'Head Coach' should look into this consistent issue?! Maybe look at reasons why Steelers & Cardiff aren't chopping and changing their rosters all the time in bring in injury cover?
He blames fixtures against tough teams... do the other EIHL teams all play different opposition to us with big rest periods in between??
What Corey has in our fans, I think, is on the whole a very supportive and patient group. It takes a long run of very bad form for Panthers fans to completely turn on their team. Yes you get the odd negative fan always unhappy but as a whole, we're very patient, especially if we can see effort and application.
Anyone correct me but I think the vast majority come to be entertained over winning each game. Instead we are getting humiliated by others and our own team a lot this year.
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Dec 19, 2016 18:47:05 GMT
The article read to me like Corey was having a moan about the fans. Rightly or wrongly, I read it to be him basically whinging that he gets criticism from fans who are stupid and don't understand his woes. He tries to tell us how much all the players care but in recent Panthers.co.uk interviews he's bemoaned players not giving enough! He blames tired players and too many injuries yet it happens year-after-year (from 2013/14 onwards)... maybe the 'Head Coach' should look into this consistent issue?! Maybe look at reasons why Steelers & Cardiff aren't chopping and changing their rosters all the time in bring in injury cover? He blames fixtures against tough teams... do the other EIHL teams all play different opposition to us with big rest periods in between?? What Corey has in our fans, I think, is on the whole a very supportive and patient group. It takes a long run of very bad form for Panthers fans to completely turn on their team. Yes you get the odd negative fan always unhappy but as a whole, we're very patient, especially if we can see effort and application. Anyone correct me but I think the vast majority come to be entertained over winning each game. Instead we are getting humiliated by others and our own team a lot this year. I agree with you 100% It reads to me he's having a dig at the fans as if we're thick for not understanding.
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Dec 19, 2016 18:55:31 GMT
Not buying it. With the crowds that Panthers get and their standing in the British game,it is not an excuse. They have let our Brit pack disintegrate. They knew the likes of Schultz,Waugh and Dimmen were going to be lengthy injuries and didn't replace. They should know we will have injuries,we could easily afford spares from the start,but we don't sign them. But is that down to Corey or are his hands tied? He's proven multiple times with a full line-up at his disposal he's the best coach in this league so I don't imagine he enjoys this situation anymore than you do. By "multiple times" I'm guessing you mean the ONCE we won the league title,or even challenged for it ! If his hands are tied,then that's his own fault for being a "yes man" but I don't actually believe his hands are as tied as many think.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2016 20:48:58 GMT
But is that down to Corey or are his hands tied? He's proven multiple times with a full line-up at his disposal he's the best coach in this league so I don't imagine he enjoys this situation anymore than you do. By "multiple times" I'm guessing you mean the ONCE we won the league title,or even challenged for it ! If his hands are tied,then that's his own fault for being a "yes man" but I don't actually believe his hands are as tied as many think. Winning the main championship the most times in your leagues country isn't indicative of being the best coach, Mike Babcock is a good example of this as he's widely regarded as the premier coach in the NHL but he's only ever won 1 Stanley Cup. I know it's an unpopular opinion but winning there league means very little to me, I mean it's nice don't get me wrong. But (even though the system is as poor as it is) I'd rather win the playoffs 10x out of 10 than win the league. This contributes to why I give Corey so much slack I admit. There's also nothing wrong with being a 'yes man'.
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Dec 19, 2016 20:57:15 GMT
By "multiple times" I'm guessing you mean the ONCE we won the league title,or even challenged for it ! If his hands are tied,then that's his own fault for being a "yes man" but I don't actually believe his hands are as tied as many think. Winning the main championship the most times in your leagues country isn't indicative of being the best coach, Mike Babcock is a good example of this as he's widely regarded as the premier coach in the NHL but he's only ever won 1 Stanley Cup. I know it's an unpopular opinion but winning there league means very little to me, I mean it's nice don't get me wrong. But (even though the system is as poor as it is) I'd rather win the playoffs 10x out of 10 than win the league. This contributes to why I give Corey so much slack I admit. There's also nothing wrong with being a 'yes man'. Perhaps Mike Babcock works for teams like Panthers,ones who don't have enough of the sheer will or desire to win. Put Thommo in as coach or Sheffield/Cardiffs management in Nottingham and Panthers would have won the league several times in the last six or seven years ! As for yes men,they're just weak willed and are prepared to accept second best.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2016 21:14:48 GMT
Winning the main championship the most times in your leagues country isn't indicative of being the best coach, Mike Babcock is a good example of this as he's widely regarded as the premier coach in the NHL but he's only ever won 1 Stanley Cup. I know it's an unpopular opinion but winning there league means very little to me, I mean it's nice don't get me wrong. But (even though the system is as poor as it is) I'd rather win the playoffs 10x out of 10 than win the league. This contributes to why I give Corey so much slack I admit. There's also nothing wrong with being a 'yes man'. Perhaps Mike Babcock works for teams like Panthers,ones who don't have enough of the sheer will or desire to win. Put Thommo in as coach or Sheffield/Cardiffs management in Nottingham and Panthers would have won the league several times in the last six or seven years ! As for yes men,they're just weak willed and are prepared to accept second best. I don't think you can accuse the Detroit Redwings of having no desire to win. I doubt the second point too, Thommo got seriously found out as a coach when Coventry became cash strapped. Given the limitations it is suggested Corey is put under here it's easy to claim he has over achieved something I don't think Thommo would have done. Weak willed, no no. I just think he knows which hills not to die on and that doesn't make him weak willed, he rolls up his sleeves, gets on with it, try's to make what he has work and that shows me he cares.
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Dec 19, 2016 22:04:26 GMT
If he wasn't a yes man, or at least Gary's man, he wouldn't get the high end mid season ringers (like Williams) to help save him when he's recruited badly, again. Which he does get, every season.
Overachieved? Come off it, I think you're protesting too much (right thread for it, granted).
Not sure the Babcock comparisons stack up either, he's in a league where they actively try and maintain parity between the clubs, we do not.
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Dec 19, 2016 22:14:45 GMT
Perhaps Mike Babcock works for teams like Panthers,ones who don't have enough of the sheer will or desire to win. Put Thommo in as coach or Sheffield/Cardiffs management in Nottingham and Panthers would have won the league several times in the last six or seven years ! As for yes men,they're just weak willed and are prepared to accept second best. I don't think you can accuse the Detroit Redwings of having no desire to win. I doubt the second point too, Thommo got seriously found out as a coach when Coventry became cash strapped. Given the limitations it is suggested Corey is put under here it's easy to claim he has over achieved something I don't think Thommo would have done. Weak willed, no no. I just think he knows which hills not to die on and that doesn't make him weak willed, he rolls up his sleeves, gets on with it, try's to make what he has work and that shows me he cares. The Red Wings I don't know,I'm not really into the NHL in a big way,but I haven't seen much from them the last few years. As for Thommo,yes i agree he won in Coventry because they threw some cash around,but in Nottingham as in Sheffield he wouldn't be cash strapped to the same extent as he became latterly in Coventry. Let's be honest,the only successful coaches in the EIHL are the lucky ones at the big four,you could put Corey or even Mike Babcock in Dundee or Edinburgh etc and they still wouldn't win anything ! I'm not just blaming Corey,it's just as much Moran and Black.....they simply fail to plan ahead,it's always reactive and if they are its odds on its far too late. Look at this year. With the continental cup,challenge cup rounds and then play offs,Panthers could potentially play EIGHTEEN more games than some other teams,yet what have they done with regards to planning. They have done nothing,absolutely nothing until far too late !
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2016 22:39:06 GMT
If he wasn't a yes man, or at least Gary's man, he wouldn't get the high end mid season ringers (like Williams) to help save him when he's recruited badly, again. Which he does get, every season. Overachieved? Come off it, I think you're protesting too much (right thread for it, granted). Not sure the Babcock comparisons stack up either, he's in a league where they actively try and maintain parity between the clubs, we do not. So which is it? Does he get these players because GM wants to help him out or because GM/NB are penny pinching early doors before releasing more budget to sign players for a cup/playoff run? Didn't say he had overachieved. I said you could easily make the argument for it based on the limitations some would have you the believe the club puts on him (holding back on funds for players etc). Fair. Parity is something this league should aim for though, if not just to see a multitude of fans lose their minds over it. That'd be entertaining.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2016 23:01:09 GMT
I don't think you can accuse the Detroit Redwings of having no desire to win. I doubt the second point too, Thommo got seriously found out as a coach when Coventry became cash strapped. Given the limitations it is suggested Corey is put under here it's easy to claim he has over achieved something I don't think Thommo would have done. Weak willed, no no. I just think he knows which hills not to die on and that doesn't make him weak willed, he rolls up his sleeves, gets on with it, try's to make what he has work and that shows me he cares. The Red Wings I don't know,I'm not really into the NHL in a big way,but I haven't seen much from them the last few years. As for Thommo,yes i agree he won in Coventry because they threw some cash around,but in Nottingham as in Sheffield he wouldn't be cash strapped to the same extent as he became latterly in Coventry. Let's be honest,the only successful coaches in the EIHL are the lucky ones at the big four,you could put Corey or even Mike Babcock in Dundee or Edinburgh etc and they still wouldn't win anything ! I'm not just blaming Corey,it's just as much Moran and Black.....they simply fail to plan ahead,it's always reactive and if they are its odds on its far too late. Look at this year. With the continental cup,challenge cup rounds and then play offs,Panthers could potentially play EIGHTEEN more games than some other teams,yet what have they done with regards to planning. They have done nothing,absolutely nothing until far too late ! Totally agree about the big 4 being the only ones likely to win anything, playoffs is the best shot for one of the other 6. There's potentially an argument there for the coach winning the league being the best 'recruiter' whereas if you win the playoffs you're the better coach because you're specifically planning for 4 specific games, but this isn't the place for that. I don't give Corey as much heat as others because I feel a lot of factors are outside of his control. Its only too late in the sense of the league, in the sense of planning for the Continental Cup they've got it all planned right. People coming back from injury, star player signed. If the CC is the priority this year I don't have an issue with it personally.
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Dec 19, 2016 23:03:01 GMT
It's personal opinion, but I don't think we really do low ball it on the opening night roster, probably comparable to the other sides you'd think are title challengers anyway, some would say ours should be well out front though. I just think we put together rosters with lots of holes in them, which then need even more cash thrown at them to plug the gaps. I've no real problem with Black on that score.
Where I might have an issue is where he doesn't seem to do anything about this repeating pattern, or, and you've said this yourself about the club, that he doesn't hire more (better) people to run the thing.
If I could remove one of the trinity though there'd be no contest (clue: it wouldn't be CN or NB).
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Dec 19, 2016 23:08:52 GMT
The Red Wings I don't know,I'm not really into the NHL in a big way,but I haven't seen much from them the last few years. As for Thommo,yes i agree he won in Coventry because they threw some cash around,but in Nottingham as in Sheffield he wouldn't be cash strapped to the same extent as he became latterly in Coventry. Let's be honest,the only successful coaches in the EIHL are the lucky ones at the big four,you could put Corey or even Mike Babcock in Dundee or Edinburgh etc and they still wouldn't win anything ! I'm not just blaming Corey,it's just as much Moran and Black.....they simply fail to plan ahead,it's always reactive and if they are its odds on its far too late. Look at this year. With the continental cup,challenge cup rounds and then play offs,Panthers could potentially play EIGHTEEN more games than some other teams,yet what have they done with regards to planning. They have done nothing,absolutely nothing until far too late ! Totally agree about the big 4 being the only ones likely to win anything, playoffs is the best shot for one of the other 6. There's potentially an argument there for the coach winning the league being the best 'recruiter' whereas if you win the playoffs you're the better coach because you're specifically planning for 4 specific games, but this isn't the place for that. I don't give Corey as much heat as others because I feel a lot of factors are outside of his control. Its only too late in the sense of the league, in the sense of planning for the Continental Cup they've got it all planned right. People coming back from injury, star player signed. If the CC is the priority this year I don't have an issue with it personally. I have a problem and a big issue in the sense of their planning for the continental cup. I pay £700 for a pair of season tickets to at least watch my team compete for the league past mid November......not for a European competition i can only watch on tv,if there's any coverage that is !!!!!!
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Post by Kovalchuk17 on Dec 19, 2016 23:15:41 GMT
Totally agree about the big 4 being the only ones likely to win anything, playoffs is the best shot for one of the other 6. There's potentially an argument there for the coach winning the league being the best 'recruiter' whereas if you win the playoffs you're the better coach because you're specifically planning for 4 specific games, but this isn't the place for that. I don't give Corey as much heat as others because I feel a lot of factors are outside of his control. Its only too late in the sense of the league, in the sense of planning for the Continental Cup they've got it all planned right. People coming back from injury, star player signed. If the CC is the priority this year I don't have an issue with it personally. I have a problem and a big issue in the sense of their planning for the continental cup. I pay £700 for a pair of season tickets to at least watch my team compete for the league past mid November......not for a European competition i can only watch on tv,if there's any coverage that is !!!!!! Yeah but that season tickets allows you to see us invariably turn up for Challenge Cup and Playoff games.... oh hang on!
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Dec 19, 2016 23:34:00 GMT
I have a problem and a big issue in the sense of their planning for the continental cup. I pay £700 for a pair of season tickets to at least watch my team compete for the league past mid November......not for a European competition i can only watch on tv,if there's any coverage that is !!!!!! Yeah but that season tickets allows you to see us invariably turn up for Challenge Cup and Playoff games.... oh hang on! Exactly. So my £700 worth of season tickets is highly likely to be the competion we don't compete properly in,the competition we do......I HAVE TO PAY EXTRA FOR ! Pretty good that eh....Not !!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2016 23:38:15 GMT
Yeah but that season tickets allows you to see us invariably turn up for Challenge Cup and Playoff games.... oh hang on! Exactly. So my £700 worth of season tickets is highly likely to be the competion we don't compete properly in,the competition we do......I HAVE TO PAY EXTRA FOR ! Pretty good that eh....Not !! This isn't something I can empathise with because as I've stated previously the league isn't in my personal interests. If I had a season ticket it would be more for convenience than anything, each to their own and all that in that regard though
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Post by dusseldorf on Dec 19, 2016 23:41:00 GMT
I have watched Panthers just prior to winning the league so have seen plenty of success especially in the cups and playoffs. What does impress me is the way Corey coaches the team, yes recruitment could be of higher calibre (but this depends on funds made available) but for me Corey is the best coach in the league and has proved it more than once, how many players have exceeded expectations in the past? The jury is still out on the current squad but we are still in all the Cup competitions and its time to get behind the team. The performance against Cardiff was the best this year and the team should be given credit for this. The Trust is a way of communicating with the management but needs to be provide positive reinforcement?
ps don't have a season ticket but get to every match we can, because we SUPPORT the Panthers.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2016 23:44:16 GMT
It's personal opinion, but I don't think we really do low ball it on the opening night roster, probably comparable to the other sides you'd think are title challengers anyway, some would say ours should be well out front though. I just think we put together rosters with lots of holes in them, which then need even more cash thrown at them to plug the gaps. I've no real problem with Black on that score. Where I might have an issue is where he doesn't seem to do anything about this repeating pattern, or, and you've said this yourself about the club, that he doesn't hire more (better) people to run the thing. If I could remove one of the trinity though there'd be no contest (clue: it wouldn't be CN or NB). Can't disagree with any of that. Where I'd start with hiring more people is by having a proper GM who would put together the roster, then if he didn't think Corey was the coach to make bat roster work he would make the decision to show him the door and I would have no issue with that. You need hockey minded people making hockey decisions (eg Kelman in Cardiff). From there you can build a back office of marketing, finance, business development etc. Just streamline it and make the organisation more professional. The NHL is the best league in the world for a reason, no reason we couldn't follow the same structure organisations have over there just on a smaller scale.
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Dec 20, 2016 0:04:47 GMT
I have watched Panthers just prior to winning the league so have seen plenty of success especially in the cups and playoffs. What does impress me is the way Corey coaches the team, yes recruitment could be of higher calibre (but this depends on funds made available) but for me Corey is the best coach in the league and has proved it more than once, how many players have exceeded expectations in the past? The jury is still out on the current squad but we are still in all the Cup competitions and its time to get behind the team. The performance against Cardiff was the best this year and the team should be given credit for this. The Trust is a way of communicating with the management but needs to be provide positive reinforcement? ps don't have a season ticket but get to every match we can, because we SUPPORT the Panthers. Yes you're seeing success in the cups and play offs.....but that is always helped greatly in that we have brought in some quality reinforcements,just as we did with Quick and Macdonald last season. Why can't we sign that team from the start of the season
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