Adam
Chick Zamick
Posts: 7,519
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Post by Adam on Mar 25, 2024 14:28:36 GMT
Welcome back to the forum, Pidge.. I don't know what you mean 🤔: Username: pidge88 Last Online: 3 hours ago Posts: 1 Registered: 3 hours ago Dates blocked out for data protection reasons Pretty obvious from the writing style and content, could see it a mile off!
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Post by blackandgold73 on Mar 25, 2024 14:36:08 GMT
13/16/19 games from being "ever present", respectively. And no more than 2 at the same time, although interestingly, Whistle has never been reported as being "reactivated", from being placed on IR on 27 December, but came back to play 2nd February. Also interestingly, Zach Vinnell was intially signed as cover for Jones (9 Dec), then "reallocated" to Whistle (19 Jan), then finally signed as a replacement for Kielly (19 Feb, Kielly having left the Steelers 22 November) so he's played all that time without counting as a roster spot, in 3 different guises. Did someone say "farce"? Steelers have played 49 games, and have 14 players with 44 or more games. Panthers have also played 49, but only 9 with 44+ games. I'm actually surprised it's that many. Panthers have picked from an injury free full squad for 3 (yes, three) games this season, and not since 15 October. And for that game, Henbrant was suspended. So it's only really 2 games all season that Panthers have had a full roster available for selection. That's not posted as any kind of "excuse", just a fact. I wonder what other teams have been like. It's been a bad season for injuries pretty much across the league. Belfast have the usual excellent roster but have been absolutely floored by injuries Yeah, got to wonder how many goals Barriga could have got for them if he hadn't been out injured since preseason. That was a big hit to the team from the outset
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Post by blackandgold73 on Mar 25, 2024 14:47:58 GMT
It's been a bad season for injuries pretty much across the league. Belfast have the usual excellent roster but have been absolutely floored by injuries According to EP, Giants haven't had a single ever-present player this season. That said, they have signed about 37 imports... I'm joking, it's only been 24. Cooper, Barriga, etc. Just those two alone fit for the season goes a chunk of way towards the 70 or so goals they're down on last year's production. And they've had a few other PPG players sitting out for spells. Wonder if they're wishing they'd brought Goodwin back from the start of the year now? Despite leaving Spain for Belfast in January he's still managed to finish the year with the most assists in the Spanish League 🙃
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Post by bobness on Mar 26, 2024 16:09:25 GMT
Same as 3 others. Your point? Despite being -6 in the last 4 games (all of which have been short (if not very short) benched on D, all regulation losses) he's still only -1 for the season. Far better than some shall we say higher profile members of the D. I don't see you on here singing his praises when he was +3 vs Flames the other night, or even vs the Clan, in a 9-3, loss when Despres was -4? I'm sensing an agenda... Yes an agenda,I don’t think Tetlow will ever be good enough whilst ever he’s got a hole in his bottom. He’s a low budget EIHL team player at best who shouldn’t be in an arena team and Panthers need to get rid of him, then spend some money and replace him with a better Brit. I’d even play a Brit short if necessary rather than re sign him and put Tetlow’s money in the import pot. Just been having a look at Tetlow's detailed stats, being as you're so keen on his +/-. If you rank all current team skaters, guess who's the top of the pile of defencemen for "net +/- per 60 minutes played"? (This is a useful proxy for "effect on the game" as it were.) Now I know what you'll say, but these are the facts as they are.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Mar 26, 2024 18:36:35 GMT
Yes an agenda,I don’t think Tetlow will ever be good enough whilst ever he’s got a hole in his bottom. He’s a low budget EIHL team player at best who shouldn’t be in an arena team and Panthers need to get rid of him, then spend some money and replace him with a better Brit. I’d even play a Brit short if necessary rather than re sign him and put Tetlow’s money in the import pot. Just been having a look at Tetlow's detailed stats, being as you're so keen on his +/-. If you rank all current team skaters, guess who's the top of the pile of defencemen for "net +/- per 60 minutes played"? (This is a useful proxy for "effect on the game" as it were.) Now I know what you'll say, but these are the facts as they are. It doesn’t say much for the rest of the defence does it if he’s top of the pile. However Tetlow is likely to spend a fair chunk of his time playing against the oppositions 3rd or 4th line. I still wouldn’t sign him though unless he’s very very cheap. Whilst we’re looking at players +\- stats have you seen Lemay ? He’s now at minus 31, by far the worst in the whole league,good lord there are only about four who are even over minus 20. That’s a shockingly bad stat !
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Post by bobness on Mar 26, 2024 20:33:55 GMT
Just been having a look at Tetlow's detailed stats, being as you're so keen on his +/-. If you rank all current team skaters, guess who's the top of the pile of defencemen for "net +/- per 60 minutes played"? (This is a useful proxy for "effect on the game" as it were.) Now I know what you'll say, but these are the facts as they are. It doesn’t say much for the rest of the defence does it if he’s top of the pile. However Tetlow is likely to spend a fair chunk of his time playing against the oppositions 3rd or 4th line. I still wouldn’t sign him though unless he’s very very cheap. Whilst we’re looking at players +\- stats have you seen Lemay ? He’s now at minus 31, by far the worst in the whole league,good lord there are only about four who are even over minus 20. That’s a shockingly bad stat ! I did know that's what you'd say. Not sure there's much actual evidence for that, though, he's been logging big minutes lately, so likely to be out in all weathers. He played the same (bar a second) as Depres in Sheffield last week. Lemay is an outlier, he's Clarkey-esque. Second in the league for powerplay gaols, but defensively a nightmare, it seems. I've got him as -22 in 2024 alone.
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Post by pantherlee on Mar 26, 2024 20:45:14 GMT
Lemay offers very little to the team unless his shot is on form and has teammates to tee him up. Good shot but does very little else. Not creative and probably the least gritty and hardworking player in the roster. He just doesn’t affect the game
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Mar 26, 2024 20:59:19 GMT
Lemay offers very little to the team unless his shot is on form and has teammates to tee him up. Good shot but does very little else. Not creative and probably the least gritty and hardworking player in the roster. He just doesn’t affect the game Seems to either score a couple or never hear his name in a game. Good job he scores a few in the odd game when he’s got his sights calibrated properly or he might be minus 50 by seasons end ! 🙄
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Mar 26, 2024 21:45:14 GMT
It doesn’t say much for the rest of the defence does it if he’s top of the pile. However Tetlow is likely to spend a fair chunk of his time playing against the oppositions 3rd or 4th line. I still wouldn’t sign him though unless he’s very very cheap. Whilst we’re looking at players +\- stats have you seen Lemay ? He’s now at minus 31, by far the worst in the whole league,good lord there are only about four who are even over minus 20. That’s a shockingly bad stat ! I did know that's what you'd say. Not sure there's much actual evidence for that, though, he's been logging big minutes lately, so likely to be out in all weathers. He played the same (bar a second) as Depres in Sheffield last week. Lemay is an outlier, he's Clarkey-esque. Second in the league for powerplay gaols, but defensively a nightmare, it seems. I've got him as -22 in 2024 alone. Tetlow when out in all weathers though Bob, like say in the last five games….he’s minus 6. You wouldn’t want that extrapolated over a season or he’d end up on about minus 60 !
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Mar 26, 2024 21:45:59 GMT
It doesn’t say much for the rest of the defence does it if he’s top of the pile. However Tetlow is likely to spend a fair chunk of his time playing against the oppositions 3rd or 4th line. I still wouldn’t sign him though unless he’s very very cheap. Whilst we’re looking at players +\- stats have you seen Lemay ? He’s now at minus 31, by far the worst in the whole league,good lord there are only about four who are even over minus 20. That’s a shockingly bad stat ! I did know that's what you'd say. Not sure there's much actual evidence for that, though, he's been logging big minutes lately, so likely to be out in all weathers. He played the same (bar a second) as Depres in Sheffield last week. Lemay is an outlier, he's Clarkey-esque. Second in the league for powerplay gaols, but defensively a nightmare, it seems. I've got him as -22 in 2024 alone. Tetlow when out in all weathers though Bob, like say in the last five games….he’s minus 6. You wouldn’t want that record extrapolated over a season or he’d end up on about minus 70 !
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Post by bobness on Mar 26, 2024 22:02:06 GMT
So he must’ve been +5 in the 13 games before that. (He’s -1 from 18 now) I’ll take +20ish for the year. 👍🤣
It all depends where you draw the line…
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Mar 26, 2024 22:22:09 GMT
So he must’ve been +5 in the 13 games before that. (He’s -1 from 18 now) I’ll take +20ish for the year. 👍🤣 It all depends where you draw the line… Lol. Sign him up ! Far better than these so called “studs” like Neill on minus 20. 🤣
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Post by Jono Bullard on Mar 26, 2024 22:41:25 GMT
So he must’ve been +5 in the 13 games before that. (He’s -1 from 18 now) I’ll take +20ish for the year. 👍🤣 It all depends where you draw the line… Lol. Sign him up ! Far better than these so called “studs” like Neill on minus 20. 🤣 I would regard a player signed direct from Schweninger Wild Wings of the DEL a stud signing. In fact I did and I stand by it. I also said Otto Nieminen & Hugo Roy were stud signings, you and others laughed at me. I still stand by it.
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Post by pantherlee on Mar 26, 2024 23:05:03 GMT
So he must’ve been +5 in the 13 games before that. (He’s -1 from 18 now) I’ll take +20ish for the year. 👍🤣 It all depends where you draw the line… Lol. Sign him up ! Far better than these so called “studs” like Neill on minus 20. 🤣 You’re getting far too hung up on +/- stats. Yo me it’s the most pointless stat as it provides absolutely no context to anything. It’s as pointless as xG is in football
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yeti
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 416
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Post by yeti on Mar 26, 2024 23:05:53 GMT
This year's team has some very good players. Also a few of lower skilled imports that unlike last year's team at least work hard.
I do have some sympathy for the view that some of these lower quality imports could be replaced by young Brits. Would Jack Hopkins have been as effective as Welsh. My opinion, probably would of been.
There had been pressure from the smaller teams to increase the import numbers. I find it disappointing that these smaller clubs don't produce many good British players. Some like Coventry have had junior development for over 20 years but have still not brought many through to actually play for the Blaze.
Think it's time they brought the under 23 Brit ruling back. Maybe each club has to have 2 and not 3 under 23 British players
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Mar 26, 2024 23:38:27 GMT
Lol. Sign him up ! Far better than these so called “studs” like Neill on minus 20. 🤣 I would regard a player signed direct from Schweninger Wild Wings of the DEL a stud signing. In fact I did and I stand by it. I also said Otto Nieminen & Hugo Roy were stud signings, you and others laughed at me. I still stand by it. 13 games for Neill for 1 measly point in the DEL,a fairly average overall CV and a minus figure in his +\- stats in most of the years he’s played hardly constitutes a “stud” signing tag in my book. Add to that his horrible +\- minus 20 this year and I’d say my assessment was more on the mark. I actually said he looked “decent” when he signed but not a “stud” As for Roy,I didn’t comment on him. And as for Nieminen,well the remark I made about 3rd line was tongue in cheek sarcasm if you care to actually read a further post !
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Mar 26, 2024 23:43:30 GMT
This year's team has some very good players. Also a few of lower skilled imports that unlike last year's team at least work hard. I do have some sympathy for the view that some of these lower quality imports could be replaced by young Brits. Would Jack Hopkins have been as effective as Welsh. My opinion, probably would of been. There had been pressure from the smaller teams to increase the import numbers. I find it disappointing that these smaller clubs don't produce many good British players. Some like Coventry have had junior development for over 20 years but have still not brought many through to actually play for the Blaze. Think it's time they brought the under 23 Brit ruling back. Maybe each club has to have 2 and not 3 under 23 British players Just looked at Jack Hopkins stats in Coventry this year and they’re not particularly impressive. In 38 games he’s scored 1+1 which seems very low if he’s presumably getting reasonable ice time.
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Post by Jono Bullard on Mar 26, 2024 23:52:51 GMT
This year's team has some very good players. Also a few of lower skilled imports that unlike last year's team at least work hard. I do have some sympathy for the view that some of these lower quality imports could be replaced by young Brits. Would Jack Hopkins have been as effective as Welsh. My opinion, probably would of been. There had been pressure from the smaller teams to increase the import numbers. I find it disappointing that these smaller clubs don't produce many good British players. Some like Coventry have had junior development for over 20 years but have still not brought many through to actually play for the Blaze. Think it's time they brought the under 23 Brit ruling back. Maybe each club has to have 2 and not 3 under 23 British players Just looked at Jack Hopkins stats in Coventry this year and they’re not particularly impressive. In 38 games he’s scored 1+1 which seems very low if he’s presumably getting reasonable ice time. On the EIHL website which contains the stats of every player, including time on ice, he’s showing 6:14 time on ice average in EIHL regular season games.
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Post by Jono Bullard on Mar 26, 2024 23:54:48 GMT
I would regard a player signed direct from Schweninger Wild Wings of the DEL a stud signing. In fact I did and I stand by it. I also said Otto Nieminen & Hugo Roy were stud signings, you and others laughed at me. I still stand by it. 13 games for Neill for 1 measly point in the DEL,a fairly average overall CV and a minus figure in his +\- stats in most of the years he’s played hardly constitutes a “stud” signing tag in my book. Add to that his horrible +\- minus 20 this year and I’d say my assessment was more on the mark. I actually said he looked “decent” when he signed but not a “stud” As for Roy,I didn’t comment on him. And as for Nieminen,well the remark I made about 3rd line was tongue in cheek sarcasm if you care to actually read a further post ! Of course it was Dave, of course it was.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Mar 27, 2024 0:16:02 GMT
13 games for Neill for 1 measly point in the DEL,a fairly average overall CV and a minus figure in his +\- stats in most of the years he’s played hardly constitutes a “stud” signing tag in my book. Add to that his horrible +\- minus 20 this year and I’d say my assessment was more on the mark. I actually said he looked “decent” when he signed but not a “stud” As for Roy,I didn’t comment on him. And as for Nieminen,well the remark I made about 3rd line was tongue in cheek sarcasm if you care to actually read a further post ! Of course it was Dave, of course it was. Glad you agree.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Mar 27, 2024 0:17:56 GMT
Just looked at Jack Hopkins stats in Coventry this year and they’re not particularly impressive. In 38 games he’s scored 1+1 which seems very low if he’s presumably getting reasonable ice time. On the EIHL website which contains the stats of every player, including time on ice, he’s showing 6:14 time on ice average in EIHL regular season games. I’m just commenting on his stats. One would have thought he may have flourished somewhat in Coventry so only 1+1 and only 6.14 ice time seems rather disappointing on both counts.
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shinobi
Randall Weber
Forum Dictator
Posts: 4,721
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Post by shinobi on Mar 27, 2024 2:17:25 GMT
Plus/minus isn’t a particularly great statistic when assessing a players worth. Too many variables.
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Post by jd on Mar 27, 2024 6:48:27 GMT
If you go to games and actually see them play, it also helps lol
Neill is a quality player, just watch him play and you will see it
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Post by rexkramer on Mar 27, 2024 7:13:21 GMT
Just looked at Jack Hopkins stats in Coventry this year and they’re not particularly impressive. In 38 games he’s scored 1+1 which seems very low if he’s presumably getting reasonable ice time. On the EIHL website which contains the stats of every player, including time on ice, he’s showing 6:14 time on ice average in EIHL regular season games. How does that TOI compare to last year? He looks to have played a similar number of games but maybe Panthers didn't ice him as much. Points total does look a little disappointing, I was hoping he was going to kick on this year. But maybe Stewart doesn't see him as a goal scorer.
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Post by bobness on Mar 27, 2024 7:49:10 GMT
Lol. Sign him up ! Far better than these so called “studs” like Neill on minus 20. 🤣 You’re getting far too hung up on +/- stats. Yo me it’s the most pointless stat as it provides absolutely no context to anything. It’s as pointless as xG is in football You can argue all day about it. At the end of the day, a simple indicator of the relative “scoriness” of a player while participating in the game is useful, if only as a start point. Yes it does depend in the team in general and the team mates, but you can also look at it within a team. There’s a reason Otto is a positive and Lemay has the worst record in the league, whilst being on the same team. That will be something I look at when the season is done. You can do all sorts of more complicated things like Corsi per 60 and all that, and can tie yourself in knots (like the offside rule in football, which was blunt, but simple, so had to be revised, now your backside can put you offside…) so but fundamentally, you want to know, in stats, what happens in the game when they are actually out there, on ice? Raw +/- is the start of that journey. Like when Panthers had Andy Sertich as “Most consistent player” at the year end awards when I started my +/- stattage when the league didn’t. Most consistently scored on, it turns out. Other opinions are available.
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