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Post by dill1015 on Oct 16, 2019 14:29:25 GMT
Either Black is lying through his teeth about the buget or Wallace and/or Doucet are terrible at recruitment as we look miles behind on paper. If the later whoevers responsible may aswell leave right now.
I agree with ending the massive turnover of players but that relies on having something worth keeping. This teams isnt it, i count 5 senior players id keep at most which is shocking. And thats including brits.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Oct 16, 2019 14:35:48 GMT
Summary of NB’s perspective: Recruitment budget broadly same as Sheffield and Cardiff but recruitment has been terrible. Responsibility for recruitment is entirely with Doucet. Created DoH role to modernise and Doucet appointed Wallace with Black’s vague approval. Primary objective is and always has been the league title. Hopes to retain 2/3 of this season’s core purely to signify a move away from the turnover rate of previous off-seasons. Glasgow and Belfast both operating with significantly lower expenditure than Panthers this year and in general. Open to match night changes to improve atmosphere. Doesn’t explicitly know anything about replacement signings for Jakobs and Loiseau, presumes Doucet has got a plan for it. No plans to sell. When asked if Panthers can still challenge this year, replied that he’d be disappointed it the current league position didn’t improve. The expected load of crap then and threw Doucet under the bus ! 🙄 Doucet is just a firewall as expected
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Oct 16, 2019 14:36:21 GMT
Either Black is lying through his teeth about the buget or Wallace and/or Doucet are terrible at recruitment as we look miles behind on paper. If the later whoevers responsible may aswell leave right now. I agree with ending the massive turnover of players but that relies on having something worth keeping. This teams isnt it, i count 5 senior players id keep at most which is shocking. And thats including brits. Five?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2019 15:20:10 GMT
Why are people shocked/surprised Black has thrown GD under the bus,.that was the reason why he got employed so when things inevitably went tits up he would be the one to take the bullet!
Black is a born liar if our budget is anywhere near that of our rivals!
Want to keep a core.. OF THIS TEAM! 🤦♂️
After this if I was Gui I'd want away asap!
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Post by bobness on Oct 16, 2019 15:21:47 GMT
Yep, looks like he's thrown GD under the figurative bus there, then. The two clearly get on lovely. Seems to pee on the idea that Black has anything to do with recruitment, though? When he says lower expenditure, is that purely players or in total? I presume in total, as Belfast surely can't have a cheaper squad than Panthers?
Not sure I wholly agree with it all, though. Players, imports especially, have been recruited with good stats from good leagues, both in europe and NA, and the ex EIHL players have also looked good to great signings. They just have barely clicked at all, bar Herr. Surely that's coaching, not recruitment? Terrible recruitment would be third line college players, past it has-beens, and (say) SPHL/DEL3 players?
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Post by PantherTom on Oct 16, 2019 15:34:03 GMT
Yep, looks like he's thrown GD under the figurative bus there, then. The two clearly get on lovely. Seems to pee on the idea that Black has anything to do with recruitment, though? When he says lower expenditure, is that purely players or in total? I presume in total, as Belfast surely can't have a cheaper squad than Panthers? Not sure I wholly agree with it all, though. Players, imports especially, have been recruited with good stats from good leagues, both in europe and NA, and the ex EIHL players have also looked good to great signings. They just have barely clicked at all, bar Herr. Surely that's coaching, not recruitment? Terrible recruitment would be third line college players, past it has-beens, and (say) SPHL/DEL3 players? Compare the CV’s of our players to the CV’s of steelers Belfast and Cardiff... there is no comparison!
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Post by dill1015 on Oct 16, 2019 15:35:01 GMT
Yep, looks like he's thrown GD under the figurative bus there, then. The two clearly get on lovely. Seems to pee on the idea that Black has anything to do with recruitment, though? When he says lower expenditure, is that purely players or in total? I presume in total, as Belfast surely can't have a cheaper squad than Panthers? Not sure I wholly agree with it all, though. Players, imports especially, have been recruited with good stats from good leagues, both in europe and NA, and the ex EIHL players have also looked good to great signings. They just have barely clicked at all, bar Herr. Surely that's coaching, not recruitment? Terrible recruitment would be third line college players, past it has-beens, and (say) SPHL/DEL3 players? We dont have any first line forwards. Thats poor recruitment. Guys are undoubtedly under performing. But even if they were on expected numbers we'd be behind.
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Yotes
Forum Admin
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Post by Yotes on Oct 16, 2019 15:38:56 GMT
Did he get asked about Permanent Mutual? I saw the B-word a couple of times on the Twitter announcement, so I assume he did.
🤭
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Post by dill1015 on Oct 16, 2019 15:39:50 GMT
Either Black is lying through his teeth about the buget or Wallace and/or Doucet are terrible at recruitment as we look miles behind on paper. If the later whoevers responsible may aswell leave right now. I agree with ending the massive turnover of players but that relies on having something worth keeping. This teams isnt it, i count 5 senior players id keep at most which is shocking. And thats including brits. Five? Perlini Herr Betterridge Fick Deutsch No complaints against Matherson, Connelly or DeSantis but all well the wrong side of 30 and you cant build teams long term around that.
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Post by blackcat on Oct 16, 2019 15:50:39 GMT
There was a mention of Bermuda. Believe he said long the lines of n old family friend who happened to live in Bermuda at the time who has been involved in the club from day one. Nothing new and nothing untoward . But don't know if that's the B you're talking about ?
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Post by wolfmac on Oct 16, 2019 15:55:27 GMT
There was a mention of Bermuda. Believe he said long the lines of n old family friend who happened to live in Bermuda at the time who has been involved in the club from day one. Nothing new and nothing untoward . But don't know if that's the B you're talking about ? Well there was certainly no shortage of a particular B-word in the comments but I don’t think that’s the one in question.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Oct 16, 2019 15:58:03 GMT
Perlini Herr Betterridge Fick Deutsch No complaints against Matherson, Connelly or DeSantis but all well the wrong side of 30 and you cant build teams long term around that. Yes I would go with that as Perlini is a golden passport holder. As you say this isn't the base of a team long term with the age of the others there.
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Yotes
Forum Admin
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Post by Yotes on Oct 16, 2019 16:06:01 GMT
There was a mention of Bermuda. Believe he said long the lines of n old family friend who happened to live in Bermuda at the time who has been involved in the club from day one. Nothing new and nothing untoward . But don't know if that's the B you're talking about ? It was. I'm actually amazed. Old family friend though, lol.
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meadow
Jade Galbraith
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Post by meadow on Oct 16, 2019 16:14:59 GMT
Re; the player budget / expenditure being behind that of Cardiff and Belfast- NB suggested that it was because those two in particular had either no or minimal rent. I believe he said 25% of their overall costs go to the NIC
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Post by bobness on Oct 16, 2019 16:19:30 GMT
Yep, looks like he's thrown GD under the figurative bus there, then. The two clearly get on lovely. Seems to pee on the idea that Black has anything to do with recruitment, though? When he says lower expenditure, is that purely players or in total? I presume in total, as Belfast surely can't have a cheaper squad than Panthers? Not sure I wholly agree with it all, though. Players, imports especially, have been recruited with good stats from good leagues, both in europe and NA, and the ex EIHL players have also looked good to great signings. They just have barely clicked at all, bar Herr. Surely that's coaching, not recruitment? Terrible recruitment would be third line college players, past it has-beens, and (say) SPHL/DEL3 players? Compare the CV’s of our players to the CV’s of steelers Belfast and Cardiff... there is no comparison! Like the two straight out of College Giants players? One of whom is leading them in scoring? Being absolutely honest, I don't think the Steelers have necessarily "better" forwards on paper than Panthers. Probably a better D, yes, on paper, but not the forwards. They do seem to have just gelled though. Vallerand's CV is distinctly middling for an EIHL player, but he's clicked big time. Same as Connolly, not the world's best hockey CV but seems to like it in the UK, very similar to Armstrong. Who knows why?
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Post by pantherlee on Oct 16, 2019 16:38:13 GMT
Believe he also said he'd be at the game this weekend
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Post by pantherlee on Oct 16, 2019 16:45:14 GMT
I do believe also that Doucet is escaping a lot of the blame for the situation we are in. Read into it what you like about us spending as much as Cardiff and Sheffield and more than Belfast but i believe what he says that we have a bigger budget that the Clan because logic dictates so. There is no good reason you would plough more money into a less profitable club with a lower chance of winning the league like the Clan over the Panthers which means that in comparison we have recruited extremely poorly. I'm not saying that i want Doucet gone and i hope he and Tim can change things round but he has to take his fair share of accountability for our current situation on the ice
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2019 16:50:34 GMT
Just for clarity, what are Gui's duties?
Besides recruiting the team and the odd interview, let's say we started the season well and no changes were necessary, what are Gui Doucet's day to day duties?
He won't be working for free and the only duty I see he has he has flopped big time. I'm not seeing great value for money in his role right now. It's likely his wages came out of the playing budget...
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Optic
Corey Neilson
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Post by Optic on Oct 16, 2019 17:19:54 GMT
No pleasing some of you is there?
If everything Black has said is true then the blame is with GD and the recruiting.
Our budget (and Clans) is a percentage of profits made which is good business.
If it's roughly similar to what we have had in the past then where is out budget for our Mcgrattans, Janssens and Stewart's? Has GD overspent on some of our players?
Also the arena is trailing a flag and drum section in the stands inside the next month!
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Jord v4
Ken Westman
Harbinger of Doom
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Post by Jord v4 on Oct 16, 2019 17:25:39 GMT
Just for clarity, what are Gui's duties? Besides recruiting the team and the odd interview, let's say we started the season well and no changes were necessary, what are Gui Doucet's day to day duties? He won't be working for free and the only duty I see he has he has flopped big time. I'm not seeing great value for money in his role right now. It's likely his wages came out of the playing budget... GD is responsible for all on ice recruitment, players & coaches.
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Post by blackcat on Oct 16, 2019 17:29:00 GMT
What I've taken from it is that we've employed a DoH ( Divert outrage Here ) to lead our recruitment for the next few years who Black says "has no recruitment network and will have to build one " Chris Ellis cut my question where I was wondering just how far and wide did we cast our net for the role . Seems to me we set Gui up to fail this season at least. Also just musing as to how things would be if the 25% of revenue we pay over to the various owners of the arena over the last 21 years had gone on buying a plot of land and building a 5500/6000 seater arena ? Doubt it is financially viable but as someone who feels that the Motorpoint treats us like second class citizens can live in hope :-)
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Post by pantherlee on Oct 16, 2019 17:47:40 GMT
What I've taken from it is that we've employed a DoH ( Divert outrage Here ) to lead our recruitment for the next few years who Black says "has no recruitment network and will have to build one " Chris Ellis cut my question where I was wondering just how far and wide did we cast our net for the role . Seems to me we set Gui up to fail this season at least. Also just musing as to how things would be if the 25% of revenue we pay over to the various owners of the arena over the last 21 years had gone on buying a plot of land and building a 5500/6000 seater arena ? Doubt it is financially viable but as someone who feels that the Motorpoint treats us like second class citizens can live in hope :-) Doubt that would be financially viable. The land and build would go into the 10's of millions maybe. You'd have to buy the land which would have to be a large area as you would presumably have to build outside the city centre which would mean more area for a car park and such. Then the cost of the build and planning itself and even if that were possible if would take many years to recoup the money you'd save on rent. All of this dependant on British Ice Hockey staying on solid ground for the next 20-25
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Oct 16, 2019 17:55:16 GMT
Re; the player budget / expenditure being behind that of Cardiff and Belfast- NB suggested that it was because those two in particular had either no or minimal rent. I believe he said 25% of their overall costs go to the NIC Quite likely 25% of Panthers costs are to the NIC yes. But if you’re turning over £3 million ish and your costs are £1.5 million ish then there’s rather a nice profit left. But in especially Cardiff’s case on their crowds they’ll be turning over nowhere near £3 million so Blacks argument doesn’t hold water.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Oct 16, 2019 17:57:29 GMT
There was a mention of Bermuda. Believe he said long the lines of n old family friend who happened to live in Bermuda at the time who has been involved in the club from day one. Nothing new and nothing untoward . But don't know if that's the B you're talking about ? It was. I'm actually amazed. Old family friend though, lol. Lol Isn’t there more than one “family friend” listed as being based in Bermuda ? 🤣
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Post by Bagheera on Oct 16, 2019 17:59:38 GMT
Quite simple really. If, if you believe Black and the player budget is roughly the same as Cardiff amd Sheffield then Doucet and or Wallace need sacking now. You dont need to know the £ note figures to know that if we have spent the same then we are paying way over the odds for players that arn't worth it. Either that or Cardiff and Sheffield are marveriks in getting better players at a much better price.
As it stands I find it very hard to believe we have spent the same. My only assumption from that is that we got exactly what most expected, a load of the same old same old BS.
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