iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jul 21, 2019 22:48:47 GMT
Well it’s pointless excercuse even trying to argue it if you’re either being daft or too thick to understand that a player who comes off a good AHL/DEL/SHL/EBEL type career is not proven quality as opposed to a player who has only ever played a lower level of hockey. Let’s say.......David Ling v Dylan Richard Now which one is proven quality and which one isn’t ? So we can agree that Matheson, Connelly, Deutsch, Lepine, Herr and Rheault are proven quality? But on other threads you’ve said some of these aren’t proven quality? Based that 6 of our imports have played at that level, then they are proven. Depends on various things not just where they’ve played,would i have signed them ? Matheson....is ageing but yes Connolly.....yes Deutsch....no not great stats Lepine....no never really rated him as a dman Herr.....maybe as a 3rd liner. Rheault....no chance for this year
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Jul 21, 2019 22:50:03 GMT
by that argument then you shouldn’t be moaning about Rheault being on this seasons roster because he fits your definition Rheault looked a good signing,but he didn’t produce. The only reason he’s still here is because he’s on a Uni course,if it was my team he wouldn’t be here this year. So when he was signed, Rheault fit your definition of "proven quality"... so we should sign more like him? Or is "proven quality" only applicable in hindsight? In which case, we'd never sign anyone new. All you do is criticise and moan... but you have nothing to back it up. Not even personal observation...
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Jul 21, 2019 22:54:03 GMT
by that argument then you shouldn’t be moaning about Rheault being on this seasons roster because he fits your definition Rheault looked a good signing,but he didn’t produce. The only reason he’s still here is because he’s on a Uni course,if it was my team he wouldn’t be here this year. but you want Panthers to have proven quality players and Rheault fits your definition of proven quality so why would you get rid of him?
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Jul 21, 2019 23:00:12 GMT
So we can agree that Matheson, Connelly, Deutsch, Lepine, Herr and Rheault are proven quality? But on other threads you’ve said some of these aren’t proven quality? Based that 6 of our imports have played at that level, then they are proven. Depends on various things not just where they’ve played,would i have signed them ? Matheson....is ageing but yes Connolly.....yes Deutsch....no not great stats Lepine....no never really rated him as a dmanHerr.....maybe as a 3rd liner. Rheault....no chance for this year No? That's not what you said when we re-signed him at the beginning of last season... Oooh that’s a rather excellent signing. Nice one again Rich. 👍 <link to thread>
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jul 21, 2019 23:00:55 GMT
Rheault looked a good signing,but he didn’t produce. The only reason he’s still here is because he’s on a Uni course,if it was my team he wouldn’t be here this year. So when he was signed, Rheault fit your definition of "proven quality"... so we should sign more like him? Or is "proven quality" only applicable in hindsight? In which case, we'd never sign anyone new. All you do is criticise and moan... but you have nothing to back it up. Not even personal observation... And all you do Shaggy is pontificate,usually about FACT with stupid comments >inserted< etc. As regards Rheault,there will always be some players signed who look very good on their CV but don’t produce,however i bet there are many,many,many more players signed who look average and yet don’t turn into gems. It’s very strange but most of the big CV duds signed in the EIHL seem to end up at Panthers where as big CV players at other teams mostly seem to succeed.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jul 21, 2019 23:26:37 GMT
Rheault looked a good signing,but he didn’t produce. The only reason he’s still here is because he’s on a Uni course,if it was my team he wouldn’t be here this year. but you want Panthers to have proven quality players and Rheault fits your definition of proven quality so why would you get rid of him? Well it’s obvious,because he didn’t produce therefore I don’t care if he was on a Uni deal,he gets the bullet. Stewart didn’t produce too hence he ain’t back either.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jul 21, 2019 23:37:40 GMT
Depends on various things not just where they’ve played,would i have signed them ? Matheson....is ageing but yes Connolly.....yes Deutsch....no not great stats Lepine....no never really rated him as a dmanHerr.....maybe as a 3rd liner. Rheault....no chance for this year No? That's not what you said when we re-signed him at the beginning of last season... Oooh that’s a rather excellent signing. Nice one again Rich. 👍 <link to thread> “As a dman” I said. As a tough guy and for the effect he previously had on the dressing room yes,but he came back a different player and hadn’t improved as a dman after his AHL stint,in fact he seemed to have even got worse, Tell you what Shaggy,you like to sit there and criticise others often,niggle people and pick flies with peoples thoughts and opinions just because what they’re saying isn’t FACT. Other than GB crap it’s just about all you do. How about you actually give us your opinion of who’s going to be good and who’s a poor signing in you’re opinion. We can then log them away and see how your predictions stack up at the end of the season.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2019 2:14:50 GMT
So we can agree that Matheson, Connelly, Deutsch, Lepine, Herr and Rheault are proven quality? But on other threads you’ve said some of these aren’t proven quality? Based that 6 of our imports have played at that level, then they are proven. Depends on various things not just where they’ve played,would i have signed them ? Matheson....is ageing but yes Connolly.....yes Deutsch....no not great stats Lepine....no never really rated him as a dman Herr.....maybe as a 3rd liner. Rheault....no chance for this year So you couldn't mention Matheson without mentioning hes aging ... yet you've mentioned Blair riley has proven quality as well in a precious post.. You say Deutsche has poor stats but fail to mention hes come direct from a league streets ahead of this one. Rheult was a consistent scorer before he signed here. Just admit it's your anti panthers agenda which which takes over and which had been evident on pretty much every thread on this forum over the summer!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2019 2:17:57 GMT
And iginla didn't you say that I won't comment on any signing and haven't gone..
But that's what you've just done with those players. You pretty much assume you know how these new players have signed will stack up!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2019 2:24:06 GMT
So when he was signed, Rheault fit your definition of "proven quality"... so we should sign more like him? Or is "proven quality" only applicable in hindsight? In which case, we'd never sign anyone new. All you do is criticise and moan... but you have nothing to back it up. Not even personal observation... It’s very strange but most of the big CV duds signed in the EIHL seem to end up at Panthers where as big CV players at other teams mostly seem to succeed. And that's down to coaching... What was your thoughts on when josh shalla signed? Was he proven quality or was he a 'average joe' because he was from the echl? Scored 3 goals but before and after Panthers stink was pretty much a ppg player.. down to coaching again I'd say You think he would have scored 3 on a devils team?
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Post by pantherlee on Jul 22, 2019 6:52:05 GMT
My definition of proven quality is someone who has put up good numbers consistently. Devils hat on here but I think Blair Riley is proven quality... now. If asked about 3 seasons ago when he signed I would of disagreed with the proven quality statement. This is going to be a controversial opinion but I don’t think Ben Lake is proven quality. He has had 1 good season putting up quality numbers but that was his only one. That is the definition of proven quality yes. Just like the Devils have gone and signed exactly that in Riley,or like they did last year with Linglet,Dixon and Heddon etc,they aren’t messing about taking chances on young kids with no pro career to speak of or a team full of average joes from the ECHL. Joey Martin Mathieu Roy Darcy Murphy Mike Hammond Gleason Fournier John Dunbar Sebastien Sylvestre Alex Guptill Just a small selection of ECHL "Average Joes" for you
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Post by jd on Jul 22, 2019 6:55:40 GMT
No? That's not what you said when we re-signed him at the beginning of last season... <link to thread> “As a dman” I said. As a tough guy and for the effect he previously had on the dressing room yes,but he came back a different player and hadn’t improved as a dman after his AHL stint,in fact he seemed to have even got worse, Tell you what Shaggy,you like to sit there and criticise others often,niggle people and pick flies with peoples thoughts and opinions just because what they’re saying isn’t FACT. Other than GB crap it’s just about all you do. How about you actually give us your opinion of who’s going to be good and who’s a poor signing in you’re opinion. We can then log them away and see how your predictions stack up at the end of the season. A) most ironic post ever B) Pretty rude as well C) Think you touched a nerve Shaggy
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Post by pantherlee on Jul 22, 2019 7:06:53 GMT
No? That's not what you said when we re-signed him at the beginning of last season... <link to thread> “As a dman” I said. As a tough guy and for the effect he previously had on the dressing room yes,but he came back a different player and hadn’t improved as a dman after his AHL stint,in fact he seemed to have even got worse, Tell you what Shaggy,you like to sit there and criticise others often,niggle people and pick flies with peoples thoughts and opinions just because what they’re saying isn’t FACT. Other than GB crap it’s just about all you do. How about you actually give us your opinion of who’s going to be good and who’s a poor signing in you’re opinion. We can then log them away and see how your predictions stack up at the end of the season. Pot. Kettle. Black.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2019 7:27:00 GMT
I think Iginla has well and truly lost this little discussion. 😂
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Post by thedevilsfan10 on Jul 22, 2019 8:45:18 GMT
That is the definition of proven quality yes. Just like the Devils have gone and signed exactly that in Riley,or like they did last year with Linglet,Dixon and Heddon etc,they aren’t messing about taking chances on young kids with no pro career to speak of or a team full of average joes from the ECHL. Joey Martin Mathieu Roy Darcy Murphy Mike Hammond Gleason Fournier John Dunbar Sebastien Sylvestre Alex Guptill Just a small selection of ECHL "Average Joes" for you I think the ECHL is a good league. I wouldn’t say the standard is too far behind the Eihl it may even come a above the standard of the Eihl
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2019 9:06:46 GMT
Exactly I think if you pick up a good echl scorer they will do well in this league and that list above back this up
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Jul 22, 2019 9:10:37 GMT
I think there's some merit to suggesting signing players with proven track records is a good idea, over one without that track record, and that would include Rheault. It would suggest an increased likelihood that there player will perform to a decent level, I would think.
At this time of the year a lot of these signings are made with no first hand experience, even from the coaching staff. With a player like Jon, once you have that your opinion may get revised. It hasn't really worked in his case, obviously, but that doesn't really invalidate the idea.
A strong career at our level is probably more desirable than someone stepping down though? Perhaps easier for someone dropping down to drop off, than someone who knows what our level is about and has been through the grind of it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2019 9:17:19 GMT
I think there's some merit to suggesting signing players with proven track records is a good idea, over one without that track record, and that would include Rheault. It would suggest an increased likelihood that there player will perform to a decent level, I would think. At this time of the year a lot of these signings are made with no first hand experience, even from the coaching staff. With a player like Jon, once you have that your opinion may get revised. It hasn't really worked in his case, obviously, but that doesn't really invalidate the idea. A strong career at our level is probably more desirable than someone stepping down though? Perhaps easier for someone dropping down to drop off, than someone who knows what our level is about and has been through the grind of it. That's why signing players from the DEL/EBEL etc isn't always cut and dry as they have to drop down a level expect this league to be easy then they end up coasting.. sign someone already at this level and you should see a continued production if you get what I mean
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jul 22, 2019 10:14:21 GMT
I think there's some merit to suggesting signing players with proven track records is a good idea, over one without that track record, and that would include Rheault. It would suggest an increased likelihood that there player will perform to a decent level, I would think. At this time of the year a lot of these signings are made with no first hand experience, even from the coaching staff. With a player like Jon, once you have that your opinion may get revised. It hasn't really worked in his case, obviously, but that doesn't really invalidate the idea. A strong career at our level is probably more desirable than someone stepping down though? Perhaps easier for someone dropping down to drop off, than someone who knows what our level is about and has been through the grind of it. That's why signing players from the DEL/EBEL etc isn't always cut and dry as they have to drop down a level expect this league to be easy then they end up coasting.. sign someone already at this level and you should see a continued production if you get what I mean Yes sign the Martin,Roys and Riley’s from within the EIHL by all means,but unfortunately once they’ve played over here they don’t seem to want to come to Nottingham. But for every ECHL guy that proves to be a big hit, how many turn out not to be a big hit....i’d say most of them.
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Post by bobness on Jul 22, 2019 10:16:20 GMT
Signing players is a bit of a black art, let's face it. Most is done sight unseen, I'd say, although Panthers so far have had more than a smattering of connections to TW.
For every rank disappointment with a big CV (Rheault, Bolduc, Henderson and Stewart last season, for example) there's a John Dunbar type signing, who plays way better than any stats/leagues they've played in (SPHL, France 2) would suggest. Jerry Pollastrone was another. Frankly, so was Mosey. Age is no barrier, Ling and Belfast last year is proof of that.
Does anyone ever really know what any signing is going to turn out like beforehand? No. But it's nice to speculate. But you need to keep your story straight...
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Post by pantherlee on Jul 22, 2019 10:25:45 GMT
That's why signing players from the DEL/EBEL etc isn't always cut and dry as they have to drop down a level expect this league to be easy then they end up coasting.. sign someone already at this level and you should see a continued production if you get what I mean Yes sign the Martin,Roys and Riley’s from within the EIHL by all means,but unfortunately once they’ve played over here they don’t seem to want to come to Nottingham. But for every ECHL guy that proves to be a big hit, how many turn out not to be a big hit....i’d say most of them. Another off the cuff statement with nothing to back it up. Of course some won't cut it. But then you can say that about any type of signing. Remember Bob Wren? Signed thinking he was going to be David Ling Mk2 and was utter crap
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Post by Bagheera on Jul 22, 2019 10:34:30 GMT
Signing players is a bit of a black art, let's face it. Most is done sight unseen, I'd say, although Panthers so far have had more than a smattering of connections to TW. For every rank disappointment with a big CV (Rheault, Bolduc, Henderson and Stewart last season, for example) there's a John Dunbar type signing, who plays way better than any stats/leagues they've played in (SPHL, France 2) would suggest. Jerry Pollastrone was another. Frankly, so was Mosey. Age is no barrier, Ling and Belfast last year is proof of that. Does anyone ever really know what any signing is going to turn out like beforehand? No. But it's nice to speculate. But you need to keep your story straight... A very good point in there in particular. It's nice to speculate. It'd be a pretty dull place if we wern't allowed to speculate and share our views on signings. If it were just as simple as wait and see for every player signed then we may aswell not bother with individual threads for the players. All we generally have is career stats and CVs until we see them so it is fair for people to speculate on that evidence. By the same token we shouldn't be completley writing players off before weve had chance to see what they can do either. Speculation, opinions and reasoned debate is what this place is for(Although that appears to be lost on some). Iginla is as entitled to his view as much as anybody. He lets himself down because he just likes to antagonise even if that means arguing against his own points at times. Some of his posts do have real points of value though, they just get lost in all the bilge.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jul 22, 2019 10:51:39 GMT
Signing players is a bit of a black art, let's face it. Most is done sight unseen, I'd say, although Panthers so far have had more than a smattering of connections to TW. For every rank disappointment with a big CV (Rheault, Bolduc, Henderson and Stewart last season, for example) there's a John Dunbar type signing, who plays way better than any stats/leagues they've played in (SPHL, France 2) would suggest. Jerry Pollastrone was another. Frankly, so was Mosey. Age is no barrier, Ling and Belfast last year is proof of that. Does anyone ever really know what any signing is going to turn out like beforehand? No. But it's nice to speculate. But you need to keep your story straight... A very good point in there in particular. It's nice to speculate. It'd be a pretty dull place if we wern't allowed to speculate and share our views on signings. If it were just as simple as wait and see for every player signed then we may aswell not bother with individual threads for the players. All we generally have is career stats and CVs until we see them so it is fair for people to speculate on that evidence. By the same token we shouldn't be completley writing players off before weve had chance to see what they can do either. Speculation, opinions and reasoned debate is what this place is for(Although that appears to be lost on some). Iginla is as entitled to his view as much as anybody. He lets himself down because he just likes to antagonise even if that means arguing against his own points at times. Some of his posts do have real points of value though, they just get lost in all the bilge. Quite yes. Although I’m consistent in that I say what I think and stick to it,mostly critical because I feel underwhelmed by most Panthers signings. Other people can never see any signing as poor and won’t accept that their team could possibly ever sign a dud looking player. Then there are others who change their mind on a player and become critical two months after having classified him as a great signing even though his resume doesn’t stack up to being.
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Post by pantherlee on Jul 22, 2019 11:10:55 GMT
A very good point in there in particular. It's nice to speculate. It'd be a pretty dull place if we wern't allowed to speculate and share our views on signings. If it were just as simple as wait and see for every player signed then we may aswell not bother with individual threads for the players. All we generally have is career stats and CVs until we see them so it is fair for people to speculate on that evidence. By the same token we shouldn't be completley writing players off before weve had chance to see what they can do either. Speculation, opinions and reasoned debate is what this place is for(Although that appears to be lost on some). Iginla is as entitled to his view as much as anybody. He lets himself down because he just likes to antagonise even if that means arguing against his own points at times. Some of his posts do have real points of value though, they just get lost in all the bilge. Quite yes. Although I’m consistent in that I say what I think and stick to it,mostly critical because I feel underwhelmed by most Panthers signings. Other people can never see any signing as poor and won’t accept that their team could possibly ever sign a dud looking player. Then there are others who change their mind on a player and become critical two months after having classified him as a great signing even though his resume doesn’t stack up to being. Other people reserve judgement until they’ve actually seen them play. Some signings have me more excited than others but I’m not going to write any of them off until they’ve shown they can/can’t do it. For example I’m not blown away by Kevin Carr. I thought for our starting netminder we would have got someone with a bit mire pedigree. However he does have similar stats to Shane Owen who has turned out to be one of best goalies in our league so I hope Carr can replicate that.
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Post by allingtonskates on Jul 22, 2019 13:05:42 GMT
Exactly I think if you pick up a good echl scorer they will do well in this league and that list above back this up shalla... jk I agree with the statement, they need a good coach to bring their best out of them and shalla didn’t get that here.
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