iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
|
Post by iginla on Jul 21, 2019 20:51:48 GMT
If I’m correct he just got drafted 4th overall in the nhl draft. That's correct. Hes the son of former Ayr Scottish eagle Shawn Byram, a fine player also. The reason why its said the twang with the most experience and best CVs wins is because that's the ONLY method teams have ever signed players in this league.. the likes of Steelers and devils know no difference .. I'd like to know where a full NCAA team would finish in the EIHL.. I think the majority of you would be in for a shock Can’t remember who it was but there was a College/University team who beat Panthers in France pre season a couple of years ago. But having said that,looking at Panthers roster from last season Justin Kovacs and Dylan Richard both played a good few years NCAA and put some numbers up and they were both pretty crap,so just because they’ve played NCAA doesn’t automatically mean you’ve signed a gem.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 20:51:52 GMT
Yup, it’s a very high standard that most people don’t recognise. yep, it still baffles me how many people on here have such firm opinions on the quality of certain leagues despite having zero knowledge or experience of those leagues Yup it's the sheer arrogance of certain people that have no interest in any other leagues bar the eihl!
|
|
Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
Posts: 10,995
|
Post by Shaggy on Jul 21, 2019 20:52:09 GMT
Spot on. The fact is, the teams with the biggest CVs on the roster tend to rise to the top. Certainly close together in the top 2 or 3. Every club has examples of big CV players failing but id bet the % of those that are percieved to fail at Panthers in far greater than those at Sheffield, Cardiff & Belfast. The amount of players that come here and under perform only points to one thing in my view, and thats the culture at the club. No way do so many players and teams fail here and it all be about them. Here's hoping the new structure changes that, but as you say, our roster looks behind others so far. I'll reserve total judgement until all players are announced though because you just never know. I also wont be writing the team off before we are a few months in at least. The fact is, it usually is fairly easy to see who will be at the top before a puck is dropped(aside Panthers). I agree you can generally tell who will be 1st and 2nd before a puck is even dropped but who realistically expects us to win the league first season after all the change we’ve had this off season. I personally hope to see a competitive team this season who still have a chance at winning the league come the end of the season and the only way you’ll be able to tell if we will is by seeing the team play first What??? - wait until we actually see the team before passing judgement? Absolute heresy! Didn't you know that volume of rhetoric, blind prejudice and stubborn adherence to dogma are far suprior tools when judging the worth of a team than direct observation, calm & logical analysis and an open mind?
|
|
dp
Jim Keyes
Posts: 966
|
Post by dp on Jul 21, 2019 20:54:58 GMT
I agree you can generally tell who will be 1st and 2nd before a puck is even dropped but who realistically expects us to win the league first season after all the change we’ve had this off season. I personally hope to see a competitive team this season who still have a chance at winning the league come the end of the season and the only way you’ll be able to tell if we will is by seeing the team play first What??? - wait until we actually see the team before passing judgement? Absolute heresy! Didn't you know that volume of rhetoric, blind prejudice and stubborn adherence to dogma are far suprior tools when judging the worth of a team than direct observation, calm & logical analysis and an open mind? Can you name the last team to win the EIHL who was made up of what people assumed were "cheaper" signings? When was the last time a team shocked everyone to win the league?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 20:57:21 GMT
That's correct. Hes the son of former Ayr Scottish eagle Shawn Byram, a fine player also. The reason why its said the twang with the most experience and best CVs wins is because that's the ONLY method teams have ever signed players in this league.. the likes of Steelers and devils know no difference .. I'd like to know where a full NCAA team would finish in the EIHL.. I think the majority of you would be in for a shock Can’t remember who it was but there was a College/University team who beat Panthers in France pre season a couple of years ago. But having said that,looking at Panthers roster from last season Justin Kovacs and Dylan Richard both played a good few years NCAA and put some numbers up and they were both pretty crap,so just because they’ve played NCAA doesn’t automatically mean you’ve signed a gem. And like players before them they were never played to their strengths or just didn't buy into the coaches tactics etc. The team who wins the upcoming league title will be the one who's COACHED the best and who's players buy in not who has the best players!!
|
|
Joe
Lorne Smith
Posts: 751
|
Post by Joe on Jul 21, 2019 21:04:48 GMT
What??? - wait until we actually see the team before passing judgement? Absolute heresy! Didn't you know that volume of rhetoric, blind prejudice and stubborn adherence to dogma are far suprior tools when judging the worth of a team than direct observation, calm & logical analysis and an open mind? Can you name the last team to win the EIHL who was made up of what people assumed were "cheaper" signings? When was the last time a team shocked everyone to win the league? impossible to say because it is just opinion without figures and as is evident by the numerous threads on this forum, not everyone shares the same opinion
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
|
Post by iginla on Jul 21, 2019 21:19:42 GMT
Can’t remember who it was but there was a College/University team who beat Panthers in France pre season a couple of years ago. But having said that,looking at Panthers roster from last season Justin Kovacs and Dylan Richard both played a good few years NCAA and put some numbers up and they were both pretty crap,so just because they’ve played NCAA doesn’t automatically mean you’ve signed a gem. And like players before them they were never played to their strengths or just didn't buy into the coaches tactics etc. The team who wins the upcoming league title will be the one who's COACHED the best and who's players buy in not who has the best players!! Absolute rubbish.......You could give any coach in the world Dundee’s team and they wouldn’t win the league. There are only three teams capable of winning this years EIHL and that’s Cardiff,Sheffield or probably Belfast. Only five teams have ever won any of the main three EIHL trophies,the vast majority by the big four with the only exception being Coventry when they overspent and paid for it a couple of years later by having to get the begging buckets out. Without at least four or five experienced quality players you are winning nothing.
|
|
Pies
Forum Moderator
Reluctant Chief of ITK
Posts: 4,879
|
Post by Pies on Jul 21, 2019 21:23:23 GMT
You know what I might do... I might wait until all the teams have signed all their players and then we’ve seen some games before passing judgment.
Amazing how many people can write teams, players and coaches off before they’ve even played a game.
Can’t wait for off season to be over so I don’t have to read the same cliches every day.
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
|
Post by iginla on Jul 21, 2019 21:24:19 GMT
Can you name the last team to win the EIHL who was made up of what people assumed were "cheaper" signings? When was the last time a team shocked everyone to win the league? impossible to say because it is just opinion without figures and as is evident by the numerous threads on this forum, not everyone shares the same opinion No it’s not impossible,we guess it every year and invariably it’s correct. It’s not hard to predict which players cost higher money and which are cheaper,who do you think cost more on Panthers roster this year Connolly or Malmquist ?
|
|
Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
Posts: 10,995
|
Post by Shaggy on Jul 21, 2019 21:30:50 GMT
What??? - wait until we actually see the team before passing judgement? Absolute heresy! Didn't you know that volume of rhetoric, blind prejudice and stubborn adherence to dogma are far suprior tools when judging the worth of a team than direct observation, calm & logical analysis and an open mind? Can you name the last team to win the EIHL who was made up of what people assumed were "cheaper" signings? People have been making blind assumptions about the likely cost of player salaries for years, decades, forever? Based on little or no real evidence, I might add. And we're none the wiser on that subject at the end of the season once the winners are known than before the season starts. 2012-13? Last season? Everyone and their auntie was saying it would be Cardiff... It really is a pointless question... every year we have so many different "I know who is going to win" claims - many or most of which turn out to be wrong. Those who turn out to have got it right - through blind luck, probably - tend to crow about it to an insufferable extent... those who get it wrong tend to either go very quiet, or (more often) try to deflect any criticism by going on some crusade against some choice target... which on this forum tends to be the Panthers club, ownership and/or management, the players, so-called 'happy clappers' or anyone else that they've got a grudge against.
|
|
Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
Posts: 10,995
|
Post by Shaggy on Jul 21, 2019 21:33:49 GMT
Still waiting for that definition of "proven quality" players that we're supposed to sign...
Of course, Gui Lepine was "proven quality" and was welcomed back by the vast majority on here (myself included).
Oops.
"Proven quality"... hmmm... that'll be interesting.
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
|
Post by iginla on Jul 21, 2019 21:49:31 GMT
Still waiting for that definition of "proven quality" players that we're supposed to sign... Of course, Gui Lepine was "proven quality" and was welcomed back by the vast majority on here (myself included). Oops. "Proven quality"... hmmm... that'll be interesting. Blair Riley.....Proven quality. Dylan Malmquist.....Wait and see.
|
|
|
Post by thedevilsfan10 on Jul 21, 2019 21:52:10 GMT
Can’t remember who it was but there was a College/University team who beat Panthers in France pre season a couple of years ago. But having said that,looking at Panthers roster from last season Justin Kovacs and Dylan Richard both played a good few years NCAA and put some numbers up and they were both pretty crap,so just because they’ve played NCAA doesn’t automatically mean you’ve signed a gem. And like players before them they were never played to their strengths or just didn't buy into the coaches tactics etc. The team who wins the upcoming league title will be the one who's COACHED the best and who's players buy in not who has the best players!! I agree with you 100%. Just look at Paul Dixon with the Flames. When the Guildford team for their inaugural Eihl season was announced, I believed that they would be down towards the bottom based on who they had signed, but they proved me completely wrong. Granted that they did not win the league, or even come too close for that matter, but they were one of the hardest working teams I had saw at The Viola Arena. On paper they still wouldn’t have the best squad, but I think they could be seriously challenging next season.
|
|
Joe
Lorne Smith
Posts: 751
|
Post by Joe on Jul 21, 2019 21:55:17 GMT
impossible to say because it is just opinion without figures and as is evident by the numerous threads on this forum, not everyone shares the same opinion No it’s not impossible,we guess it every year and invariably it’s correct. It’s not hard to predict which players cost higher money and which are cheaper,who do you think cost more on Panthers roster this year Connolly or Malmquist ? who guesses? And why do they speak for everyone else? Also without figures your opinion is just your opinion and therefore it can not be correct
|
|
Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
Posts: 10,995
|
Post by Shaggy on Jul 21, 2019 22:07:33 GMT
Still waiting for that definition of "proven quality" players that we're supposed to sign... Of course, Gui Lepine was "proven quality" and was welcomed back by the vast majority on here (myself included). Oops. "Proven quality"... hmmm... that'll be interesting. Blair Riley.....Proven quality. That's an example, not a definition... or are we only supposed to sign players who have already proven themselves in this league? Bit difficult, that. And Blair Riley was anything but "proven quality" before he came to this country... his stats (that tool so beloved on here ) were nothing special. And, shock horror, when he did sign for Belfast in 2016... there was absolutely no comment on this forum. No cries of "he's proven quality!", none of the usual "why did the Panthers not sign this player?"... nada. So maybe this "proven quality" thing is a bit more nebulous than you'd like us to believe. Unless, of course, you have a clear definition of exactly what it is...?
|
|
|
Post by allingtonskates on Jul 21, 2019 22:17:14 GMT
Blair Riley.....Proven quality. That's an example, not a definition... or are we only supposed to sign players who have already proven themselves in this league? Bit difficult, that. And Blair Riley was anything but "proven quality" before he came to this country... his stats (that tool so beloved on here ) were nothing special. And, shock horror, when he did sign for Belfast in 2016... there was absolutely no comment on this forum. No cries of "he's proven quality!", none of the usual "why did the Panthers not sign this player?"... nada. So maybe this "proven quality" thing is a bit more nebulous than you'd like us to believe. Unless, of course, you have a clear definition of exactly what it is...? And a lot of people thought Rheault would be quality...
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
|
Post by iginla on Jul 21, 2019 22:22:04 GMT
Blair Riley.....Proven quality. That's an example, not a definition... or are we only supposed to sign players who have already proven themselves in this league? Bit difficult, that. And Blair Riley was anything but "proven quality" before he came to this country... his stats (that tool so beloved on here ) were nothing special. And, shock horror, when he did sign for Belfast in 2016... there was absolutely no comment on this forum. No cries of "he's proven quality!", none of the usual "why did the Panthers not sign this player?"... nada. So maybe this "proven quality" thing is a bit more nebulous than you'd like us to believe. Unless, of course, you have a clear definition of exactly what it is...? Well it’s pointless excercise even trying to argue it if you’re either being daft or too thick to understand that a player who comes off a good AHL/DEL/SHL/EBEL type career is not proven quality as opposed to a player who has only ever played a lower level of hockey. Let’s say.......David Ling v Dylan Richard Now which one is proven quality and which one isn’t ?
|
|
|
Post by thedevilsfan10 on Jul 21, 2019 22:24:49 GMT
Blair Riley.....Proven quality. That's an example, not a definition... or are we only supposed to sign players who have already proven themselves in this league? Bit difficult, that. And Blair Riley was anything but "proven quality" before he came to this country... his stats (that tool so beloved on here ) were nothing special. And, shock horror, when he did sign for Belfast in 2016... there was absolutely no comment on this forum. No cries of "he's proven quality!", none of the usual "why did the Panthers not sign this player?"... nada. So maybe this "proven quality" thing is a bit more nebulous than you'd like us to believe. Unless, of course, you have a clear definition of exactly what it is...? My definition of proven quality is someone who has put up good numbers consistently. Devils hat on here but I think Blair Riley is proven quality... now. If asked about 3 seasons ago when he signed I would of disagreed with the proven quality statement. This is going to be a controversial opinion but I don’t think Ben Lake is proven quality. He has had 1 good season putting up quality numbers but that was his only one.
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
|
Post by iginla on Jul 21, 2019 22:25:33 GMT
That's an example, not a definition... or are we only supposed to sign players who have already proven themselves in this league? Bit difficult, that. And Blair Riley was anything but "proven quality" before he came to this country... his stats (that tool so beloved on here ) were nothing special. And, shock horror, when he did sign for Belfast in 2016... there was absolutely no comment on this forum. No cries of "he's proven quality!", none of the usual "why did the Panthers not sign this player?"... nada. So maybe this "proven quality" thing is a bit more nebulous than you'd like us to believe. Unless, of course, you have a clear definition of exactly what it is...? And a lot of people thought Rheault would be quality... Some of us thought that Hotham,Roy and O’marra would be quality too when they signed and they were. Shall i dig my post out from way back then. 🤣
|
|
|
Post by allingtonskates on Jul 21, 2019 22:27:43 GMT
And a lot of people thought Rheault would be quality... Some of us thought that Hotham,Roy and O’marra would be quality too when they signed and they were. Shall i dig my post out from way back then. 🤣 And there is a lot of players people thought were “proven quality” and turned out to be poor. So what.
|
|
Pies
Forum Moderator
Reluctant Chief of ITK
Posts: 4,879
|
Post by Pies on Jul 21, 2019 22:28:19 GMT
That's an example, not a definition... or are we only supposed to sign players who have already proven themselves in this league? Bit difficult, that. And Blair Riley was anything but "proven quality" before he came to this country... his stats (that tool so beloved on here ) were nothing special. And, shock horror, when he did sign for Belfast in 2016... there was absolutely no comment on this forum. No cries of "he's proven quality!", none of the usual "why did the Panthers not sign this player?"... nada. So maybe this "proven quality" thing is a bit more nebulous than you'd like us to believe. Unless, of course, you have a clear definition of exactly what it is...? Well it’s pointless excercuse even trying to argue it if you’re either being daft or too thick to understand that a player who comes off a good AHL/DEL/SHL/EBEL type career is not proven quality as opposed to a player who has only ever played a lower level of hockey. Let’s say.......David Ling v Dylan Richard Now which one is proven quality and which one isn’t ? So we can agree that Matheson, Connelly, Deutsch, Lepine, Herr and Rheault are proven quality? But on other threads you’ve said some of these aren’t proven quality? Based that 6 of our imports have played at that level, then they are proven.
|
|
Joe
Lorne Smith
Posts: 751
|
Post by Joe on Jul 21, 2019 22:28:35 GMT
That's an example, not a definition... or are we only supposed to sign players who have already proven themselves in this league? Bit difficult, that. And Blair Riley was anything but "proven quality" before he came to this country... his stats (that tool so beloved on here ) were nothing special. And, shock horror, when he did sign for Belfast in 2016... there was absolutely no comment on this forum. No cries of "he's proven quality!", none of the usual "why did the Panthers not sign this player?"... nada. So maybe this "proven quality" thing is a bit more nebulous than you'd like us to believe. Unless, of course, you have a clear definition of exactly what it is...? Well it’s pointless excercuse even trying to argue it if you’re either being daft or too thick to understand that a player who comes off a good AHL/DEL/SHL/EBEL type career is not proven quality as opposed to a player who has only ever played a lower level of hockey. Let’s say.......David Ling v Dylan Richard Now which one is proven quality and which one isn’t ? by that argument then you shouldn’t be moaning about Rheault being on this seasons roster because he fits your definition
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
|
Post by iginla on Jul 21, 2019 22:31:20 GMT
That's an example, not a definition... or are we only supposed to sign players who have already proven themselves in this league? Bit difficult, that. And Blair Riley was anything but "proven quality" before he came to this country... his stats (that tool so beloved on here ) were nothing special. And, shock horror, when he did sign for Belfast in 2016... there was absolutely no comment on this forum. No cries of "he's proven quality!", none of the usual "why did the Panthers not sign this player?"... nada. So maybe this "proven quality" thing is a bit more nebulous than you'd like us to believe. Unless, of course, you have a clear definition of exactly what it is...? My definition of proven quality is someone who has put up good numbers consistently. Devils hat on here but I think Blair Riley is proven quality... now. If asked about 3 seasons ago when he signed I would of disagreed with the proven quality statement. This is going to be a controversial opinion but I don’t think Ben Lake is proven quality. He has had 1 good season putting up quality numbers but that was his only one. That is the definition of proven quality yes. Just like the Devils have gone and signed exactly that in Riley,or like they did last year with Linglet,Dixon and Heddon etc,they aren’t messing about taking chances on young kids with no pro career to speak of or a team full of average joes from the ECHL.
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
|
Post by iginla on Jul 21, 2019 22:32:55 GMT
Some of us thought that Hotham,Roy and O’marra would be quality too when they signed and they were. Shall i dig my post out from way back then. 🤣 And there is a lot of players people thought were “proven quality” and turned out to be poor. So what. Indeed....mostly Panthers signings ! 🤣
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
|
Post by iginla on Jul 21, 2019 22:36:51 GMT
Well it’s pointless excercuse even trying to argue it if you’re either being daft or too thick to understand that a player who comes off a good AHL/DEL/SHL/EBEL type career is not proven quality as opposed to a player who has only ever played a lower level of hockey. Let’s say.......David Ling v Dylan Richard Now which one is proven quality and which one isn’t ? by that argument then you shouldn’t be moaning about Rheault being on this seasons roster because he fits your definition Rheault looked a good signing,but he didn’t produce. The only reason he’s still here is because he’s on a Uni course,if it was my team he wouldn’t be here this year.
|
|