Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Feb 23, 2018 17:28:27 GMT
Forgive me but aren't you as much arguing my point. No, they're saying that this bit: When they find out, they'll want him gone for a 'proper' player... Especially when they find out he's on more than a living wage ! For that amount of money we can get two Canadians desparate for cushy life with no 'road trips' and an education to boot ! won't happen with the Saturday nighters, they wouldn't care, even if they did find out.
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Feb 23, 2018 18:03:42 GMT
Well that's your opinion.... History reveals that if a rule that prevents more imports from playing is considered stupid in favour of winning then it'll get changed....
We used to have 3 imports only.... Then 3 imports and a dual national... Then more imports and more imports.
Without development Great Britain will never beat Canada at the Olympics unlike Germany.... Saturday nights are entertaining though.
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Post by PantherB on Feb 23, 2018 18:08:00 GMT
Well that's your opinion.... History reveals that if a rule that prevents more imports from playing is considered stupid in favour of winning then it'll get changed.... We used to have 3 imports only.... Then 3 imports and a dual national... Then more imports and more imports. Without development Great Britain will never beat Canada at the Olympics unlike Germany.... Saturday nights are entertaining though. IHUK and the EIHA are the ones you should be preaching at. Not enough ice time available for juniors either. Rinks make more money from public skates. Lots of rinks are in awful condition too, can't expect our juniors to reach their potential whilst having to attempt to develop on sub standard ice and buildings with dreadful facilities and coaching which is done by parents.
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Feb 23, 2018 18:21:50 GMT
Well that's your opinion.... History reveals that if a rule that prevents more imports from playing is considered stupid in favour of winning then it'll get changed.... We used to have 3 imports only.... Then 3 imports and a dual national... Then more imports and more imports. Without development Great Britain will never beat Canada at the Olympics unlike Germany.... Saturday nights are entertaining though. Rules don't change because of Saturday night fans though. They won't know the import rules. They'd be entertained enough whoever was out on the ice. Not sure why you're laying the blame for that at their door? There's plenty I'd blame them for but British development, or lack of, seems a bit of a stretch. If anyone I'd think it's the longer time fans, who do know the value of a British passport to a player, who would be the ones wanting more imports? Must be said too, that I don't remember too many Olympic medals from the plucky British boys when there were only 3 imports in the top league. Although as PantherB says, the reasons we don't produce quantity and quality of British players is down to access, facilities and coaching. The fix for those would likely involve a ton of money.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Feb 23, 2018 18:32:50 GMT
Well that's your opinion.... History reveals that if a rule that prevents more imports from playing is considered stupid in favour of winning then it'll get changed.... We used to have 3 imports only.... Then 3 imports and a dual national... Then more imports and more imports. Without development Great Britain will never beat Canada at the Olympics unlike Germany.... Saturday nights are entertaining though. I couldn’t give a stuff about the olympics or team GB in general come to that. I want panthers to have the best squad possible and I’m not interested in my seat money going towards funding very poorly run youth development while watching EPL quality hockey.
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Post by wgray on Feb 23, 2018 18:59:36 GMT
Well that's your opinion.... History reveals that if a rule that prevents more imports from playing is considered stupid in favour of winning then it'll get changed.... We used to have 3 imports only.... Then 3 imports and a dual national... Then more imports and more imports. Without development Great Britain will never beat Canada at the Olympics unlike Germany.... Saturday nights are entertaining though. Rules don't change because of Saturday night fans though. They won't know the import rules. They'd be entertained enough whoever was out on the ice. Not sure why you're laying the blame for that at their door? There's plenty I'd blame them for but British development, or lack of, seems a bit of a stretch. If anyone I'd think it's the longer time fans, who do know the value of a British passport to a player, who would be the ones wanting more imports? Must be said too, that I don't remember too many Olympic medals from the plucky British boys when there were only 3 imports in the top league. Although as PantherB says, the reasons we don't produce quantity and quality of British players is down to access, facilities and coaching. The fix for those would likely involve a ton of money. Like everything in life it always comes down to money, someone has to invest it back in and unfortunately nobody involved in British Ice Hockey will do so.
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deke
Robert Lachowicz
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Post by deke on Feb 24, 2018 9:50:29 GMT
Keep Tetlow looks an excellent prospect who is building in confidence Brown hard working tough gives his all and a good player for us Lindhagen good player effective can play d and offence which is very useful Garnett, he has been good for some games awful for others but let's face it he is going nowhere Ollie good pK man lots of energy Pither looks every bit a player we have needed all season Gospel needs a few games under his belt but is a longer term project Lachowitz I'm not a lachowitz fan but he has improved big time over last season Sauve big point scorers for us ability is there if paired with a stay at home dman could do even better Farmer, not had the best season but is an effective wind up man. Mokshanksev young clearly very talented a bit naive and overly flashy at times but has the potential to be really special Perlini no brainer excellent player and a brit to boot. Gagnon good player for us only reason to get rid is if you get someone a lot better in Derlago whilst not exactly what I thought he would be has still produced enough and shown enough of what he is capable of to stay
Rid Clarke probably about time for him to retire has had a few games where he showed his talent but has visably slowness down Galbraith, given the choice I'd take galbraith but garnet has a uni deal and another import goalie is only going to stop gospel getting the games he needs. Lee If we can upgrade generally poor season gives the puck away constantly Billingsley not lived up the the hype of bildozer. Bussieres got similar style players in brown lindhagen betteridge and he does not bring anything extra to the table Phillips. Hot and cold season for me. If he ups his game a possible stay. Spang just not a fan surely we can upgrade.
Unsure Mosey a good player for us but not reaching his full potential considering his probably higher wage depends on his wage demand
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Post by mansfieldpanther91 on Feb 24, 2018 11:50:59 GMT
I think alot of people expected something different from billingsley after hearing his nickname, but if you listen to his interview when he first came to Nottingham, he says the nickname was nothing to do with his gameplay etc it was to do with a film character or something along them lines. I've been happy with him personally , plays simple, safe and doesn't make many mistakes
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Feb 24, 2018 14:31:15 GMT
Well that's your opinion.... History reveals that if a rule that prevents more imports from playing is considered stupid in favour of winning then it'll get changed.... We used to have 3 imports only.... Then 3 imports and a dual national... Then more imports and more imports. Without development Great Britain will never beat Canada at the Olympics unlike Germany.... Saturday nights are entertaining though. Rules don't change because of Saturday night fans though. They won't know the import rules. They'd be entertained enough whoever was out on the ice. Not sure why you're laying the blame for that at their door? There's plenty I'd blame them for but British development, or lack of, seems a bit of a stretch. If anyone I'd think it's the longer time fans, who do know the value of a British passport to a player, who would be the ones wanting more imports? Must be said too, that I don't remember too many Olympic medals from the plucky British boys when there were only 3 imports in the top league. Although as PantherB says, the reasons we don't produce quantity and quality of British players is down to access, facilities and coaching. The fix for those would likely involve a ton of money. I think you're the one talking about Saturday night fans. I'm talking about the failure to see any possible development of British players by the owners, foreign coaches or supporters who are only interested in what they can have now now now. To Everyone.... It doesn't matter that they've watched the Panthers for 10 years, these people are arena hockey watchers and as such have no experience of seeing home grown talent come through the system. And yet they think they can tell those that have, how it can never happen and that it's all about money. It's all about the present customer base being selfish individuals that have more in common with Black and Moran than with me. if the cap fits and you find yourself in this category, you're not on your own there are thousands of you and after Black n Moran have reset the customer base you're now in the majority. And nothing will change as there's no real desire to see change as long as you're getting the best hockey. Wake up ! You're not getting the best hockey !
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Post by jdizpt8 on Feb 24, 2018 15:01:28 GMT
I’ve been going to games for almost 20 years and all I’m saying on the matter is that with the inclusion of more imports that game has got a hell of a lot better and from a personal stand point I don’t understand why we have to have brits in our team. It’s ridiculous to think because of your nationality you get to play at the top level in our country. If your good enough you should play, if not what gives you the right? I want to see the best possible players in this league. I’d scrap the import limit and bring in a salary cap both top and bottom so no teams scrimp through and no team over powers the league. But that’s just me.
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Feb 24, 2018 15:27:55 GMT
I think you're the one talking about Saturday night fans. I'm talking about the failure to see any possible development of British players by the owners, foreign coaches or supporters who are only interested in what they can have now now now. Firstly, you talked about "transient fans", which would suggest here today, gone tomorrow. Secondly, to have a full game night roster at the moment you'd need at least 8 British players, 3 of which would have to be U23. To suggest the league does nothing for development is clearly not true. To Everyone.... It doesn't matter that they've watched the Panthers for 10 years, these people are arena hockey watchers and as such have no experience of seeing home grown talent come through the system. And yet they think they can tell those that have, how it can never happen and that it's all about money. It's all about the present customer base being selfish individuals that have more in common with Black and Moran than with me. if the cap fits and you find yourself in this category, you're not on your own there are thousands of you and after Black n Moran have reset the customer base you're now in the majority. And nothing will change as there's no real desire to see change as long as you're getting the best hockey. Wake up ! You're not getting the best hockey ! Again, when were all the medals in the World Championships and Olympics, during the halcyon days that only you seem to remember? You seem to really be upset, in all your posts on here, that the NIC ever got built and that your niche sport suddenly wasn't niche anymore. Nothing special about being in the gang if too many other people are.
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Feb 24, 2018 16:44:34 GMT
I'm not upset.... I'm just posting my opinion, this is a forum for doing that, yes ?
Let's remember I'm replying to the statement that the British player rule is stupid.... That opinion was expressed by another (you said nowt) and I responded with my opinion.
Let's not have bias moderation where only opinion that agrees with the majority are allowed.
Scrapping the import rule as suggested by another would destroy the league system in this country within a few years. A top wage cap system has been proven to not work, why would anyone even consider going back to such a thing ?
Will results be different this time ?
No, only the arena teams would become competitive, the rink teams would leave the league and set up their own in which their supporters could see a genuine competitive sport and the 3 or 4 arena teams plus wannabes would play in a stale repetitive league format.
Granted that's not much worse than what we have now with arena teams promising not to overspend rink teams out of business.
But the situation where British players are considered overpriced is only exacerbated by not having a steady flow through of young British talent. If the elite league chairmen placed more emphasis on developing British players we'd see teams made up of players that were more league focused as opposed to playoffs. With less but higher quality imports supplementing British players. We'd eventually see more British ex players becoming coaches who value the development system and eventually a better GB team.
The Canadian merry go round we have at present is short sighted and gets the game in this country no improvement.
Personally I can't understand why people think that watching 20 2nd class Canadians is better than watching 5 (100+ NHL game) Canadian and 15 Britsh players..... Or numbers inbetween.
I understand this would be a turn off to some.. But try and understand it would be the opposite to others.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Feb 24, 2018 16:59:23 GMT
I wasn’t watching hockey at the time but from what people say about the old arena years I wish I had been. A team full of Brits plus 3 imports was it,playing in a sold out arena every night.
But if it was so good with a team almost full of Brits with constant sell outs.... Why did Panthers almost go bust ?
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Feb 24, 2018 17:05:59 GMT
We didn't nearly go bust in those days.... Only once Cardiff and Sheffield instigated a cheque book hockey league, with increases imports, dual nationals and inflated prices payed to British players developed by other clubs....
In which both these clubs did go bust.
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Post by pantherlee on Feb 24, 2018 17:14:51 GMT
Rules don't change because of Saturday night fans though. They won't know the import rules. They'd be entertained enough whoever was out on the ice. Not sure why you're laying the blame for that at their door? There's plenty I'd blame them for but British development, or lack of, seems a bit of a stretch. If anyone I'd think it's the longer time fans, who do know the value of a British passport to a player, who would be the ones wanting more imports? Must be said too, that I don't remember too many Olympic medals from the plucky British boys when there were only 3 imports in the top league. Although as PantherB says, the reasons we don't produce quantity and quality of British players is down to access, facilities and coaching. The fix for those would likely involve a ton of money. I think you're the one talking about Saturday night fans. I'm talking about the failure to see any possible development of British players by the owners, foreign coaches or supporters who are only interested in what they can have now now now. To Everyone.... It doesn't matter that they've watched the Panthers for 10 years, these people are arena hockey watchers and as such have no experience of seeing home grown talent come through the system. And yet they think they can tell those that have, how it can never happen and that it's all about money. It's all about the present customer base being selfish individuals that have more in common with Black and Moran than with me. if the cap fits and you find yourself in this category, you're not on your own there are thousands of you and after Black n Moran have reset the customer base you're now in the majority. And nothing will change as there's no real desire to see change as long as you're getting the best hockey. Wake up ! You're not getting the best hockey ! Are you for real. What about people who aren't even old enough to have going to the Panthers game pre arena or those that simply found ice hockey after that time. Its not their (or my) fault that they weren't around to see the game at that time call every fan post year 2000 selfish individuals with more in common with Black and Moran is just a plain pig ignorant attitude and insulting. At the end of the day the game has moved on. As i understand it and i'm no expert as i wasn't watching hockey then the ISL was scrapped because the way it worked was unsustainable and teams were folding left right and centre. Right now British Ice Hockey is probably in the healthiest state its been since the mid 90's so why would you completely rip up the format purely for Brits
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Feb 24, 2018 17:20:22 GMT
And it's insulting to dismiss out of hand the opinion of those that are older fans. Simply because they are now in the minority thanks to the resetting of the fan base.
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Feb 24, 2018 17:22:33 GMT
But it's not British Ice Hockey..... It's ice hockey played in Britain....
And don't get me wrong, I'm not calling for the ISL business model.
And it wasn't me calling for the British rule to be ripped up as it's stupid.... So please lets not twist my intention or what I've said.
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Post by pantherlee on Feb 24, 2018 17:50:14 GMT
When did i dismiss your opinion? I just had issue with the selfish comment which i believe to be complete nonsense. For the record i agree in principle that there should be better British development but not to the detriment of the Panthers of the EIHL. A proper junior league should be in place to highlight and develop young British talent as a springboard to earning a place in the Elite League. Unfortunately i don't see that happening any time soon because like it or not money talks. Only a couple of years ago an u20's (or something similar can't remember exactly) was set up by the EIHL i believe and was scrapped before it even began as not enough teams would invest into it. I think the current u23 brit rule is good starting point at present as it encourages young British development without it meaning squads have to be filled with sub standard players.
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Feb 24, 2018 18:05:39 GMT
Oh for Gods sake..... When did I say anything about you in person.
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Feb 24, 2018 18:17:56 GMT
Maybe if you didn't take a post from one person and start off with your broad strokes of arena fans and transient fans, or even referring to the current fanbase as you have done, people wouldn't feel you were talking about them?
And for the record none of your opinions have been moderated.
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Feb 24, 2018 18:18:13 GMT
So in principle we're in agreement...
A better junior development and a continuation of the British players rule.
Regardless of whether we think it will happen or not that is what YOU and I would like to see.
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Post by Mark Mac on Feb 24, 2018 18:26:55 GMT
I don’t think the import rules matters when we’re talking about Brit players. We need investment at youth ice hockey. Without a much, much better system for future British players to develop we won’t get the numbers to actually make a difference in the future.
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Feb 24, 2018 18:27:18 GMT
Oh I'm sorry but it's not like I can name everyone individually..
As has been said... Be real.
I've objected to a statement from another that the British rule is stupid, inflates the price of players and should be scraped...
I'm not looking to pick an argument with an individual, and as such I don't aim any broadsides. But I do wish to get my point across about a section of Panthers supporters that don't care about British development in favour of the Saturday night product which like it or not is the same attitude as Black and Moran.
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Feb 24, 2018 18:30:10 GMT
So in principle we're in agreement... A better junior development and a continuation of the British players rule. Regardless of whether we think it will happen or not that is what YOU and I would like to see. I'm happy with the current balance of import and Brit, and I'm hopeful that the U23 aspect will help a few more come through (and perhaps ultimately a reduction in imports). I like to see Britain do well internationally too.
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Feb 24, 2018 18:42:51 GMT
Ok then, but where are these younger Brits coming from ?
I can't see it, I can't see the progression into the Panthers. And I suggest that if quality British players don't come off the development production line then the British u23 rule will result in less quality squads with these British players 'riding the pine'...
Thus a self fulfilling prophecy that British players are not good enough, and cannot ever be of the quality required.
And any person who never saw the Hands or Coopers play, then that person should really listen to those that did.
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