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Post by texpef on Feb 21, 2018 11:54:54 GMT
My opinion with Cardiff is it isnt just the retaining of playing staff from previous seasons is it. WE had the chance to retain a triple winning squad and squandered it away. There is little point building a team from previous seasons when that team didnt win you are just compounding the issue and showing lazy recruitment. Cardiff are retaining players because they clearly are not underperforming and know what is needed to win, i.e. build from a position of strength not necessity.
As for this years team, well, havent seen many poor performances as i stopped going to watch but from what i can remember there is a core of players worth keeping and imho..
Keep one of the import keepers, little point having two especially with the season just gone (although you could argue when galbraith got injured it was worth it but if that is the case why not for all the other positions which we have been hammered for this season). So what i am saying is imho keep Galbraith and Garnett if the budget allows as our brit backup of Gospel is adequate For D well think Gagnon has earned himself another season and i think sauve has shown class but cant think that any of the others cant be at least replaced by as good if not better and that includes Lee (although when Lee sticks to the basics he is ok but please not the captain). Tetlow as a youngster is good enough at the mo to play.
Forwards... well clark is getting to his sellby date very very soon if not already there although we have a ready made replacement in Perlini who needs to be resigned. Struggle to justify the wages we are paying for Lacho and farmer at the mo and we need more from both which may or may not happen under different players and coach. As for the import forwards its hard to know where to begin as we have clearly not scored anywhere near enough. So, considering how much they are likely to be, i understand the new guys are ok but existing players like mosey/derlago should be good enough but havent been. Would these be better under a new coach or would we get more of the same, personally I'm not sure i would give them a shot but if the new coach AT THE RIGHT PRICE thinks they should then i wouldnt be too upset. If Mok is again signed as a 4th liner then I'm ok with that but he cant justify more than that given what i have seen. Brown is a role guy and has been ok but not outstanding, same as philips so could we replace both with better (or cheaper so we can higher quality key guys). You only need one dual role guy, been pointless having mosey and lindhagen so one or other or maybe someone else that can fit a multi role better.
Think next season yet again panthers need another clearout, CN got the formula right the year we got the triple, get back to that whoever is the coach...
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Gilly
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Post by Gilly on Feb 21, 2018 12:04:34 GMT
Galbraith Garnett
Billingsley Gagnon Tetlow Lee
Perlini Farmer Pither Derlago Brown Betteridge
not fussed about the rest
couple of stand out exclusions Mosey - love his speed, but more productivity needed and i think we can get someone else who can produce more, maybe better to have back on D again? Mokshantsev - apart from his early season form has done absolutly nothing for me. fancy plays, skills and entertainment yes, but far too often is culpable for not tracking his man and switching off, so is a no from me Sauve - Points output has been great and is our biggest offensive threat. but caught out of position too often, takes his eye off the puck at least one a game and concentration seems to be an issue sometimes
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Post by panthersnation on Feb 21, 2018 13:09:47 GMT
Keep
Gospel Lachowicz Farmer - under contract Garnett - under contract Tetlow Perlini Clarke Brown Derlago Sauve Gagnon Pither
Gas
Lee Ollie Kelsall Phillips Lindhargen Bussieres mok Spang
Unsure Billingsley Galbraith Mosey Vaskivuo
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 13:12:51 GMT
Keep Gospel Lachowicz Farmer - under contract Garnett - under contract Tetlow Perlini Clarke Brown Derlago Sauve Gagnon Pither Gas Lee Ollie Kelsall Phillips Lindhargen Bussieres mok Spang Unsure Billingsley Galbraith Mosey Vaskivuo This
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Feb 21, 2018 14:31:43 GMT
Why would you get rid of Betteridge? Or any of the junior Brits for that matter.
You can only ditch Lee if you can replace him.
Pither has started well, but I'll wait til he's got a few more games under his belt before judging him (and Vaskivuo). Players often start well, then fade.
I'd hope we remember that we're 7th for a reason, and only bring back the cream of the crop import-wise. New coach might not want any of them.
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Post by dill1015 on Feb 21, 2018 15:16:33 GMT
Galbraith Gospel Garnett - personally i wouldnt but he is coming back
Sauve Gagnon Billingsley Lee Tetlow
Perlini Pither Derlago Brown - at the right price Mosey - at the right price Farmer Betteridge Lacho - at the right price Kelsall Hazeline Clarke as a spare/assistant coach
How team would look: Sniper- playmaker - perlini Mosey - pither - derlago Farmer - Brown - power forward Betteridge - Lacho - energy guy/defensive
Sauve - lee Gagnon - Billingsley Lepine type player - breisboi type player Tetlow.
2 scoring lines, 1 crash bang line, 1 shut down line. And 3 sets of balanced defense. Along with our goal keeping therea no reason a good coach shouldnt make that a scarey team in our league. But the top 2 forwards are key.
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Post by Walitzer on Feb 21, 2018 15:19:55 GMT
Keep Gospel Lachowicz Farmer - under contract Garnett - under contract Tetlow Perlini Clarke Brown Derlago Sauve Gagnon Pither Gas Lee Ollie Kelsall Phillips Lindhargen Bussieres mok Spang Unsure Billingsley Galbraith Mosey Vaskivuo Why would you get rid of Lee, Ollie or Kelsall? Kelsall has hardly played a game, largely thanks to his season ending injury. Keep him on a 2-way contract, out of the main roster but training with the Panthers to develop! Ollie is one of, if not the best British PK'er in the EIHL, he is tireless, aggressive on the forecheck and only 22. He has also consistently improved year on year during his time with the Panthers. To gas him now would be madness. He's never going to be our top scorer, his finishing is not there, but he grinds out games and wears opponents down with his energy. He plays a 4th line role well and I'd much rather he play that role and allow us to bring in another import sniper or playmaker to boost the scoring lines! I've already given my piece on Lee earlier in the thread, but I'd hate to see him elsewhere.
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Post by Walitzer on Feb 21, 2018 15:34:05 GMT
Galbraith Gospel Garnett - personally i wouldnt but he is coming back Sauve Gagnon Billingsley Lee Tetlow Perlini Pither Derlago Brown - at the right price Mosey - at the right price Farmer Betteridge Lacho - at the right price Kelsall Hazeline Clarke as a spare/assistant coach How team would look: Sniper- playmaker - perlini Mosey - pither - derlago Farmer - Brown - power forward Betteridge - Lacho - energy guy/defensive Sauve - lee Gagnon - Billingsley Lepine type player - breisboi type player Tetlow. 2 scoring lines, 1 crash bang line, 1 shut down line. And 3 sets of balanced defense. Along with our goal keeping therea no reason a good coach shouldnt make that a scarey team in our league. But the top 2 forwards are key. I agree with you a lot. But Derlago and Billingsley should go into the "At the right price" pile IMO, they are good players but neither are essential to the team and could be replaced/upgraded if the right money was spent. The "Billdozer" didn't show up for Nottingham, Derlago proved to be more of a grinder than a sniper and both like to take daft penalties when they shouldn't. I'd also pay the extra money to keep Mosey in Nottingham, I'm sure Panthers will make it back anyway with replicas and pub quiz tickets!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 16:01:35 GMT
Keep Gospel Lachowicz Farmer - under contract Garnett - under contract Tetlow Perlini Clarke Brown Derlago Sauve Gagnon Pither Gas Lee Ollie Kelsall Phillips Lindhargen Bussieres mok Spang Unsure Billingsley Galbraith Mosey Vaskivuo Almost the same as my thoughts but get rid of Ollie? I hope that was a typo!
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Post by dill1015 on Feb 21, 2018 16:28:38 GMT
Galbraith Gospel Garnett - personally i wouldnt but he is coming back Sauve Gagnon Billingsley Lee Tetlow Perlini Pither Derlago Brown - at the right price Mosey - at the right price Farmer Betteridge Lacho - at the right price Kelsall Hazeline Clarke as a spare/assistant coach How team would look: Sniper- playmaker - perlini Mosey - pither - derlago Farmer - Brown - power forward Betteridge - Lacho - energy guy/defensive Sauve - lee Gagnon - Billingsley Lepine type player - breisboi type player Tetlow. 2 scoring lines, 1 crash bang line, 1 shut down line. And 3 sets of balanced defense. Along with our goal keeping therea no reason a good coach shouldnt make that a scarey team in our league. But the top 2 forwards are key. I agree with you a lot. But Derlago and Billingsley should go into the "At the right price" pile IMO, they are good players but neither are essential to the team and could be replaced/upgraded if the right money was spent. The "Billdozer" didn't show up for Nottingham, Derlago proved to be more of a grinder than a sniper and both like to take daft penalties when they shouldn't. I'd also pay the extra money to keep Mosey in Nottingham, I'm sure Panthers will make it back anyway with replicas and pub quiz tickets! Derlago hasnt lit it up the way we wanted him to. But i honestly believe thats from a lack on feed. He works really hard and plenty of gis goals have been from him just doing it himself. If he had a guy like ling/fox/galbraith next to him hed of scored a shed load. If theres is another option out there thats just as good sure id replace him. Bug i dont think hes a reason we've struggled. I have no problem with billingsly. He done pretty much what i hoped for. Steady, not a stud, doesnt cost us games all the time and is ok at both ends of the ice.
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Post by GuinnessMan on Feb 21, 2018 19:09:31 GMT
Correct me if i'm wrong, 2018/19 With Clarke, Lacho, Farmer, Perlini, Lee, Gospel .... i think that would give us 6GB seniors, so one would need to sit out if we played 14imports.
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The Flying Shirt
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Feb 21, 2018 19:18:59 GMT
Correct me if i'm wrong, 2018/19 With Clarke, Lacho, Farmer, Perlini, Lee, Gospel .... i think that would give us 6GB seniors, so one would need to sit out if we played 14imports. To be honest the small handful Brits in the league who are not getting to their sell by date and worth having are well tied down to contracts and are never coming here in a million years. The stupid import limit makes the Brits stupidly over priced and a overrated commodity.
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Post by wgray on Feb 21, 2018 19:25:52 GMT
Correct me if i'm wrong, 2018/19 With Clarke, Lacho, Farmer, Perlini, Lee, Gospel .... i think that would give us 6GB seniors, so one would need to sit out if we played 14imports. Clarke would be the logical move.
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Feb 21, 2018 20:09:31 GMT
Well in my opinion its not the import limit that's stupid but the failure to bring Brits through any recognisable development system that's stupid.
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Feb 21, 2018 20:37:47 GMT
You can probably count Clarkey out, cos I think he’s retiring at the end of this season.
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The Flying Shirt
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Feb 21, 2018 21:42:00 GMT
Well in my opinion its not the import limit that's stupid but the failure to bring Brits through any recognisable development system that's stupid. No one is going to put the money into that to do it properly. I don't care if players come from Canada or Cambodia so long as the standard is there.
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Post by ted logan on Feb 21, 2018 21:47:45 GMT
Well in my opinion its not the import limit that's stupid but the failure to bring Brits through any recognisable development system that's stupid. No one is going to put the money into that to do it properly. I don't care if players come from Canada or Cambodia so long as the standard is there. Cambodia TFS? Please don’t give management any ideas.
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Feb 21, 2018 21:51:11 GMT
What you care about and I care about are two different things...
The selfish attitude of wanting imports imports imports by the transient fans is IMO what's driven the focus of the sporting club owners towards entertainment.
I want a sustainable competitive league in which I have a connection with the players of my team.
I haven't felt that we've had that in this country since the Hunt, Waghorn, Tait, Rhodes, Webber days.
And I'm guessing the North East England hockey fans think the same.
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The Flying Shirt
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Feb 21, 2018 22:33:02 GMT
What you care about and I care about are two different things... The selfish attitude of wanting imports imports imports by the transient fans is IMO what's driven the focus of the sporting club owners towards entertainment. I want a sustainable competitive league in which I have a connection with the players of my team. I haven't felt that we've had that in this country since the Hunt, Waghorn, Tait, Rhodes, Webber days. And I'm guessing the North East England hockey fans think the same. Transient fans? I haven’t missed one home game in ten years including cup games, friendlies BS pre season games as in ANY games in ten years and up until this year very very few away games in all that time either. The Brit development thing of any standard at all isn’t going to happen in my lifetime certainly not in any great numbers.
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Feb 22, 2018 19:51:02 GMT
I didn't accuse you of being a transient fan... It wasn't my intention to do this but to point out which section of hockey watchers have this import import import thinking mentality.
Now if you have the same opinion as to imports as the transient fans, well that's just a simple case of "if the cap fits......."
As for Brit development, you're correct it won't happen as long as there's no desire to see it happen. With owners and fans looking more towards what happens in a Saturday night than having a long term view on the future of this sport.
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Post by pantherlee on Feb 22, 2018 20:13:33 GMT
At the end of the day its all about money. It would be great to have a proper junior development system but the fact is in this country there's no money to made in developing home grown talent and i can't see that changing anytime soon. Its only got worse too since the EPL folded
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Feb 22, 2018 20:26:45 GMT
I didn't accuse you of being a transient fan... It wasn't my intention to do this but to point out which section of hockey watchers have this import import import thinking mentality. Now if you have the same opinion as to imports as the transient fans, well that's just a simple case of "if the cap fits......." As for Brit development, you're correct it won't happen as long as there's no desire to see it happen. With owners and fans looking more towards what happens in a Saturday night than having a long term view on the future of this sport. With respect,half our crowd is probably made up of “transient fans” who if you asked them,wouldn’t have a clue which of Brown or Farmer was an import.
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Post by mansfieldpanther91 on Feb 22, 2018 20:56:50 GMT
I didn't accuse you of being a transient fan... It wasn't my intention to do this but to point out which section of hockey watchers have this import import import thinking mentality. Now if you have the same opinion as to imports as the transient fans, well that's just a simple case of "if the cap fits......." As for Brit development, you're correct it won't happen as long as there's no desire to see it happen. With owners and fans looking more towards what happens in a Saturday night than having a long term view on the future of this sport. With respect,half our crowd is probably made up of “transient fans” who if you asked them,wouldn’t have a clue which of Brown or Farmer was an import. I'd say more to be honest. I know season ticket holders who don't know about imports etc and who is from where.
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Feb 22, 2018 21:02:26 GMT
Forgive me but aren't you as much arguing my point.
It's not that these people don't know that Brown is an import but more that they didn't know Farmer was a Brit !
Wow..... There are British hockey players ?
When they find out, they'll want him gone for a 'proper' player... Especially when they find out he's on more than a living wage ! For that amount of money we can get two Canadians desparate for cushy life with no 'road trips' and an education to boot !
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Post by allingtonskates on Feb 23, 2018 13:44:50 GMT
I didn't accuse you of being a transient fan... It wasn't my intention to do this but to point out which section of hockey watchers have this import import import thinking mentality. Now if you have the same opinion as to imports as the transient fans, well that's just a simple case of "if the cap fits......." As for Brit development, you're correct it won't happen as long as there's no desire to see it happen. With owners and fans looking more towards what happens in a Saturday night than having a long term view on the future of this sport. i just want a better standard of hockey. Until the brit development is sorted it’s imports that are going to give us that.
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