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Post by PantherB on Aug 11, 2017 13:49:58 GMT
Also thought this was odd (although maybe just an oversight in the article) - in the pictures of training camp pretty sure theres a goalie in the net who isn't Garnett or Gospel Just had news Zakharchenko may have some further delays...! he signed in May for gods sake Do remember he's a 22 year old Russian/Ukrainian.. Ukraine is currently in the midst of a conflict. That area of the world is full of loopholes and barriers He might have faced difficulty getting back home to Russia, from Ukraine with the conflict and Ukrainians not exactly looking too kindly upon Russians in their territory. He's from Vladivostok, which is closer to Noth Korea than anywhere in Russia he can do his Visa from. It's almost 10,000km to Moscow and he's need to attend the visa/passport office in person, at least twice. He'll need his injections/medication too. The above will look like excuses but when was the last time we signed anyone from that part of the world? That goes without mentioning he'll be the 3rd string goalie when our final skater is signed. Gospel is more than good enough to be backup and goalies do not require time to gel. The most important thing for Zahk is to learn English, only 2 others talk Russian and one is Garnett, the other Mokshantsev. Now Bussieres and Mokshantsev are ready to come, we'll be in a much better position than if Zakharchenko was ready to come and the other two weren't.
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Gilly
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Post by Gilly on Aug 11, 2017 14:00:34 GMT
Just had news Zakharchenko may have some further delays...! he signed in May for gods sake Do remember he's a 22 year old Russian/Ukrainian.. Ukraine is currently in the midst of a conflict. That area of the world is full of loopholes and barriers He might have faced difficulty getting back home to Russia, from Ukraine with the conflict and Ukrainians not exactly looking too kindly upon Russians in their territory. He's from Vladivostok, which is closer to Noth Korea than anywhere in Russia he can do his Visa from. It's almost 10,000km to Moscow and he's need to attend the visa/passport office in person, at least twice. He'll need his injections/medication too. The above will look like excuses but when was the last time we signed anyone from that part of the world? That goes without mentioning he'll be the 3rd string goalie when our final skater is signed. Gospel is more than good enough to be backup and goalies do not require time to gel. The most important thing for Zahk is to learn English, only 2 others talk Russian and one is Garnett, the other Mokshantsev. Now Bussieres and Mokshantsev are ready to come, we'll be in a much better position than if Zakharchenko was ready to come and the other two weren't. I agree, if i would be happy for anyone to be late it would be Zak, as we have ample cover in that area. However, we're the ones who have chosen to sign him. If we didn't want him to go through the stress of getting it done in 3 months then why did we sign him in the first place, he's not the only NM out there. I'll just be glad when everyone gets here so we can forget about whether people will be playing and just get on with some Hockey - that is until out inevitable injury crisis hits
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Post by tootootrain on Aug 11, 2017 14:08:15 GMT
...goalies do not require time to gel... I assume you've never played ice hockey then? You couldn't be further from the truth. All netminders have their own particular quirks and favoured ways to play and D-men in particular need to learn these, lest they disrupt their own NM's performance. Even at the mere rec level I play at we have goalies who play in certain ways and expect us D-men to adapt to them. One of our goalies favours the defence picking up any loose players around the crease, allowing him to see direct shots, whereas one of our other goalies is the exact opposite, favouring us shutting down players on the puck, leaving the loose players to him.
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Aug 11, 2017 14:15:36 GMT
The above will look like excuses Yup I've no idea what the process is for a Russian national to get a work permit in the UK, but there have been Russians over here at other clubs before, they've all managed it. And if it really is such a pain to do, and he's only coming in as 3rd string netminder (your suggestion), then really, what's the point?
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Post by PantherB on Aug 11, 2017 14:34:06 GMT
...goalies do not require time to gel... I assume you've never played ice hockey then? You couldn't be further from the truth. All netminders have their own particular quirks and favoured ways to play and D-men in particular need to learn these, lest they disrupt their own NM's performance. Even at the mere rec level I play at we have goalies who play in certain ways and expect us D-men to adapt to them. One of our goalies favours the defence picking up any loose players around the crease, allowing him to see direct shots, whereas one of our other goalies is the exact opposite, favouring us shutting down players on the puck, leaving the loose players to him. Can a goalie come straight in and do a job? Yes. That's my point. You don't exactly need to gel to control the defencemen either, these are professionals after all. They wouldn't be in a job if they couldn't perform without making friends with the defence first.
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Post by PantherB on Aug 11, 2017 14:36:58 GMT
The above will look like excuses Yup I've no idea what the process is for a Russian national to get a work permit in the UK, but there have been Russians over here at other clubs before, they've all managed it. And if it really is such a pain to do, and he's only coming in as 3rd string netminder (your suggestion), then really, what's the point? He'll be 3rd string when our final import is signed, as we'll have 15 on the books but h I'm sure games will be shared out during the longer weekends to keep Garnett fresh. I'd guess Corey wants to give him a chance, if he can perform well at our level then he could be the future starter, being only 22. If he and Mokshantsev don't perform at a level where they're definite re-signings then I wouldn't expect to see many Russians in Black and Gold for a while.
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Post by PantherB on Aug 11, 2017 14:39:23 GMT
Do remember he's a 22 year old Russian/Ukrainian.. Ukraine is currently in the midst of a conflict. That area of the world is full of loopholes and barriers He might have faced difficulty getting back home to Russia, from Ukraine with the conflict and Ukrainians not exactly looking too kindly upon Russians in their territory. He's from Vladivostok, which is closer to Noth Korea than anywhere in Russia he can do his Visa from. It's almost 10,000km to Moscow and he's need to attend the visa/passport office in person, at least twice. He'll need his injections/medication too. The above will look like excuses but when was the last time we signed anyone from that part of the world? That goes without mentioning he'll be the 3rd string goalie when our final skater is signed. Gospel is more than good enough to be backup and goalies do not require time to gel. The most important thing for Zahk is to learn English, only 2 others talk Russian and one is Garnett, the other Mokshantsev. Now Bussieres and Mokshantsev are ready to come, we'll be in a much better position than if Zakharchenko was ready to come and the other two weren't. I agree, if i would be happy for anyone to be late it would be Zak, as we have ample cover in that area. However, we're the ones who have chosen to sign him. If we didn't want him to go through the stress of getting it done in 3 months then why did we sign him in the first place, he's not the only NM out there. I'll just be glad when everyone gets here so we can forget about whether people will be playing and just get on with some Hockey - that is until out inevitable injury crisis hits Personally I feel like nobody in the office realised the lengths they'd have to go to get these guys over here, so whilst it's a bit bad that they were probably under prepared, it's a learning curve at the least. I just hope they're both worth the hassle Don't jinx us!
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Post by tootootrain on Aug 11, 2017 16:57:40 GMT
Can a goalie come straight in and do a job? Yes. That's my point. You don't exactly need to gel to control the defencemen either, these are professionals after all. They wouldn't be in a job if they couldn't perform without making friends with the defence first. It would have been quicker for you to say "no I've never actually played hockey and as such don't have a clue what I'm talking about" rather than persist with your wibble. Yes, a netminder can "do a job" if all you want is them to put on their pads and flop around the crease a bit. If you want them to be effective in that role though they need to have built up a rapport with all the players, but most importantly their defence. In an increasingly competitive league you need to take every advantage that you can to remain competitive. Sadly this kind of unprofessional approach is typical of the Panthers organisation and a cynical person could easily draw a link between such poor attitudes and the team's dismal history in the league.
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Post by PantherB on Aug 11, 2017 17:04:59 GMT
Can a goalie come straight in and do a job? Yes. That's my point. You don't exactly need to gel to control the defencemen either, these are professionals after all. They wouldn't be in a job if they couldn't perform without making friends with the defence first. It would have been quicker for you to say "no I've never actually played hockey and as such don't have a clue what I'm talking about" rather than persist with your wibble. Yes, a netminder can "do a job" if all you want is them to put on their pads and flop around the crease a bit. If you want them to be effective in that role though they need to have built up a rapport with all the players, but most importantly their defence. In an increasingly competitive league you need to take every advantage that you can to remain competitive. Sadly this kind of unprofessional approach is typical of the Panthers organisation and a cynical person could easily draw a link between such poor attitudes and the team's dismal history in the league. Take a chill pill fella. So every goalie who has ever came in mid-season does nothing but 'flop around the crease a bit'. Genuinely made me chuckle that did. Shane Madolora joined late, lost I think 2 games in his time here. He definitely didn't flop about and was a great goalie. Just one example.
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Post by tootootrain on Aug 11, 2017 18:01:46 GMT
So every goalie who has ever came in mid-season does nothing but 'flop around the crease a bit'. Genuinely made me chuckle that did. Shane Madolora joined late, lost I think 2 games in his time here. He definitely didn't flop about and was a great goalie. Just one example. Any more examples...? To look at your example though, Shane Madolora did well despite the team in front of him, not because of it. But one swallow doesn't make a summer. Let's not forget, the 2015-2016 season saw Panthers slump to their joint worst performance in the league since the EIHL was formed. Panthers though managed to win the two also-ran trophies, which once again seemed to distract the easily pleased. If it really doesn't matter when netminders arrive why are all our rivals paying for their's to train pre-season? Just buy some Holie Goalies and save some money. Or could it be that, as already established, you don't know what you are talking about, and that other teams take pre-season preparations a little more seriously than the Panthers do?
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Post by PantherB on Aug 11, 2017 18:18:07 GMT
So every goalie who has ever came in mid-season does nothing but 'flop around the crease a bit'. Genuinely made me chuckle that did. Shane Madolora joined late, lost I think 2 games in his time here. He definitely didn't flop about and was a great goalie. Just one example. Any more examples...? To look at your example though, Shane Madolora did well despite the team in front of him, not because of it. But one swallow doesn't make a summer. Let's not forget, the 2015-2016 season saw Panthers slump to their joint worst performance in the league since the EIHL was formed. Panthers though managed to win the two also-ran trophies, which once again seemed to distract the easily pleased. If it really doesn't matter when netminders arrive why are all our rivals paying for their's to train pre-season? Just buy some Holie Goalies and save some money. Or could it be that, as already established, you don't know what you are talking about, and that other teams take pre-season preparations a little more seriously than the Panthers do? Going off of Panthers, in recent history.. Mattias Modig could be another one. He wasn't outstanding but he did a pretty decent job. Only Swede on the team, not the best English, didn't stop him doing a decent job for us. That 2014-15 Roster was trash too, and usually always injured. Of course it matters getting guys in early, but not so much for goalies as it is for defencemen or forwards. Goalies roles is to communicate and stop the puck. Look in the American Leagues, got goalies going up and down from ECHL to AHL, new teams, new faces, they still perform at a high quality.. If defencemen listen to the goalie, and if the goalie actually communicates then there won't be too much of an issue. Perhaps be less rude and have a adult to adult conversation rather than attempting to be-little me, just a tip though. Makes you look like an ass otherwise.
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Post by tootootrain on Aug 11, 2017 18:35:48 GMT
Look in the American Leagues, got goalies going up and down from ECHL to AHL, new teams, new faces, they still perform at a high quality.. You'd be better off quitting whilst you're behind. Do you follow NA hockey? Do you actually understand how the affiliate system works? If you don't, please don't use something you don't understand as an example. If you do, please don't use something you obviously don't understand as an example. Perhaps if you stopped talking such blatant rubbish I'd be less abrasive. Please, tell me you're fairly new to hockey and that you don't really understand the subtle but important interplay and relationship between a netminder and their defence. The need for a defence to instinctively know if their netminder would want pucks shot at certain speeds and angles to be collapsed onto if it rebounds or if said netminder prefers to clear/glove it themself. The need to know if their netminder likes to 'wander' if the puck bobbles behind the net and thus move to cover the crease or whether they'll stay firm on their post and expect the defence to clear out. Please, tell me you've only been following hockey a season and don't really think, to build a team with serious intentions to win the league, you can just slot a netminder in willy nilly and hope for the best?
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Shorty
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Post by Shorty on Aug 11, 2017 18:42:46 GMT
We must have been very lucky when Rasto came in to the team
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Post by tootootrain on Aug 11, 2017 18:56:31 GMT
We must have been very lucky when Rasto came in to the team Ah yes, the 2006-07 season. A league finish so poor it wasn't equalled until the 2015-16 season, nowhere to be seen in the Challenge Cup and managing a Play Off win through penalty shot wins in every round. So, poor when teamwork was required, scraped a win when individual performances matter.
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Post by PantherB on Aug 11, 2017 19:02:53 GMT
Look in the American Leagues, got goalies going up and down from ECHL to AHL, new teams, new faces, they still perform at a high quality.. You'd be better off quitting whilst you're behind. Do you follow NA hockey? Do you actually understand how the affiliate system works? If you don't, please don't use something you don't understand as an example. If you do, please don't use something you obviously don't understand as an example. Perhaps if you stopped talking such blatant rubbish I'd be less abrasive. Please, tell me you're fairly new to hockey and that you don't really understand the subtle but important interplay and relationship between a netminder and their defence. The need for a defence to instinctively know if their netminder would want pucks shot at certain speeds and angles to be collapsed onto if it rebounds or if said netminder prefers to clear/glove it themself. The need to know if their netminder likes to 'wander' if the puck bobbles behind the net and thus move to cover the crease or whether they'll stay firm on their post and expect the defence to clear out. Please, tell me you've only been following hockey a season and don't really think, to build a team with serious intentions to win the league, you can just slot a netminder in willy nilly and hope for the best? Never heard of ECHL contracted players being loaned to AHL teams? I'll provide some examples, random click on 4 teams and looking into the goaltenders they loaned during the season. Alex Vazzano (2015-16) - Contracted to Danbury (FHL) loaned to 7 different teams through the season, from AHL, ECHL and SPHL. During time with Reading (ECHL) played 2 with a GAA of 3.11, whether he relieved as backup, or played the full 60, I don't know, not the best stats but plenty of factors could've determined that, however, they aren't brutal stats. 1 game with Fort Wayne, GAA of 1.00, SVS of .923. Pretty good if you ask me, for a FHL loanee. 5 games with Elmira, with a 3.37 GAA but a .902 SVS, suggests he did well but the team wasn't up to scratch. Drew Fielding - Loaned by Pensacola (SPHL) to Reading (ECHL), 1.19 GAA and .961 SVS. That's real good for an SPHL loanee. Then loaned to Adirondack, 13 games, 3.62 GAA and .871 SVS, not too good, however, he was with Adirondack the season prior so despite knowing probably some of his teammates, he didn't perform too well. Sean Bonar (2015-16) - Contracted in the SPHL, loaned to 3 ECHL teams, 2 of whom he had no prior relation with. With Brampton, during a poor season for them, 5 games, 3.54 GAA, .877 SVS. With Fort Wayne, 3 games, 2.69 GAA and .911 SVS. Pretty good. I could go on and on, but EliteProspects is being real tedious to work with for me, so those examples will suffice. The goalie you're referring to that I mentioned earlier today, to start this, was Zakharchenko.. Once Sauve is in, he's 3rd String until we rotate upon long weekends, tough matches, Garnett lacking fitness etc.. 'Blatant Rubbish' is, your opinion, and my opinion, believe it or not.. Differs to yours. Why can't you act your age and simply respect the difference in opinion, actually talk in a calm manner to understand why I think, this, that and the other. Rather than spouting nothing but what is essentially, 'wtf are you on about you know nothing'. It's a sign of a very narrow mind if you can't accept that others have different opinions, and even more narrow if you get 'abrasive' at something so so minor and simple.
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shinobi
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Post by shinobi on Aug 11, 2017 19:09:24 GMT
"Abrasive" demeanour, bordering on passive aggression, due to a back up goalie not being present at preseason training... Good lord 🙄
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Post by tootootrain on Aug 11, 2017 19:37:58 GMT
It's not minor nor simple, it's an indicator of the unprofessionalism rife in the Panthers Organisation.
But you know, shiny shiny also-ran trophy, keep the natives from asking too many questions.
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shinobi
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Post by shinobi on Aug 11, 2017 19:44:21 GMT
It's not minor nor simple, it's an indicator of the unprofessionalism rife in the Panthers Organisation. But you know, shiny shiny also-ran trophy, keep the natives from asking too many questions. If you're alluding to me being a so called happy clapper, you must be new around here.
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nate24
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Post by nate24 on Aug 11, 2017 19:49:41 GMT
It's not minor nor simple, it's an indicator of the unprofessionalism rife in the Panthers Organisation. But you know, shiny shiny also-ran trophy, keep the natives from asking too many questions. This was my point elsewhere. Not enough of the fan bases interest runs deep enough to care about the biggerr a picture. If we win a trophy, any trophy then they are happy and that's ok to a degree but whilst that is the feelings of most of the fan base there is no need for the organisation to push finances further. Letting players pitch up as and when is a symptom of this as is keeping a coach who is still fairly green in the grand scheme of things and gone stale when he should be really honing is craft and pushing his limits. Not just tweaking a line because he's bored!
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Pies
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Post by Pies on Aug 11, 2017 20:02:11 GMT
Craig kowalski was very much a keen player of the puck which meant the forward and d knew they didn't necessarily need to come behind the net to start the break outs. Forwards knew that if he had the puck and there was a line change occurring, he had the ability to play that puck to them. Other goalies didn't and IMO, we've missed that aspect of our game. So I think there's certainly a very big argument for goalies needing to gel. Not necceairly for their game but for the d men and forwards to adapt their game around him. Also I confess to having very limited knowledge on goalies.
However, if we can keep conversations civil and take away any personal digs, makes mine and the other mods lives easier!
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Gilly
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Post by Gilly on Aug 17, 2017 12:16:24 GMT
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Post by Rob Scott on Aug 17, 2017 12:24:37 GMT
Good stuff. It's a shame that some of them have missed some of the good work that seems to have been happening but it's certainly a big improvement on previous years. Hopefully this will help lead to a fast start in the domestic competitions and a sustained league challenge.
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Aug 17, 2017 12:53:45 GMT
So we will basically have a full team for 1 week and 2 games before the CHL, and for 3 weeks and 6 games before the domestic season starts. Perfect? - no. But that's a damned sight better than in previous seasons. Overall - decent job, Panthers.
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nate24
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Post by nate24 on Aug 17, 2017 13:24:18 GMT
So we will basically have a full team for 1 week and 2 games before the CHL, and for 3 weeks and 6 games before the domestic season starts. Perfect? - no. But that's a damned sight better than in previous seasons. Overall - decent job, Panthers. It's only a decent job in contrast to previous seasons but I'll take that for now and hopefully improve that further next year. Easier to feel positive with everyone here before September.
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Caesar
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Post by Caesar on Aug 17, 2017 13:46:46 GMT
Wonder what personal issues are the concern for Zacharchenko? Non visa issues doesnt bode well
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