Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2017 11:53:50 GMT
If my memory serves me correctly back in the 12/13 season didn't Werner, Fox, Ling and Benedict only get here in time (and some just in time at that) for the opening game (league/cup or a double up can't remember) of the season? That didn't work out to badly did it? But 'visa issues' and late arriving players is something the Panthers seem to suffer every season, whereas our main rivals seem to get their collective backsides in gear and hit the ground running. You can quote the 12/13 season all you want, but in the 20 years Neil Black has owned the team Panthers have just a single league title. Perhaps there is a correlation between players turning up late/in poor fitness and the fact the only trophies Panthers regularly seem to be able to win are the minor trophies that are competed for later in the season? You know, after the late arrivals have had their own training camp during early league games? It's a question of attitudes. Our rivals don't seem happy to accept late arriving players and settling for the 'also-ran' trophies. It's strange though how despite our players routinely arriving late we normally hit the ground running playing wise and then fall off a cliff towards the end of November/early December, which tells me that having all players being here by date X doesn't overly correlate with a successful season league wise (there is one common denominator in that but that's another subject for another time). You're right it is about attitudes, but all clubs in all leagues (Premier League, NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL etc.) worldwide have ownership with different priorities and who own clubs for different reasons (want to win/ego/was a fan/prestige etc. the list goes on and on). It's their playpen they can do what they want with it, run it as they please and as long as more people are happy than not that's how they will continue to do so. At the end of the day it's something I personally have zero control over so I'm not going to get worked up over it - it's just not worth it.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Aug 8, 2017 12:16:09 GMT
But 'visa issues' and late arriving players is something the Panthers seem to suffer every season, whereas our main rivals seem to get their collective backsides in gear and hit the ground running. You can quote the 12/13 season all you want, but in the 20 years Neil Black has owned the team Panthers have just a single league title. Perhaps there is a correlation between players turning up late/in poor fitness and the fact the only trophies Panthers regularly seem to be able to win are the minor trophies that are competed for later in the season? You know, after the late arrivals have had their own training camp during early league games? It's a question of attitudes. Our rivals don't seem happy to accept late arriving players and settling for the 'also-ran' trophies. It's strange though how despite our players routinely arriving late we normally hit the ground running playing wise and then fall off a cliff towards the end of November/early December, which tells me that having all players being here by date X doesn't overly correlate with a successful season league wise (there is one common denominator in that but that's another subject for another time). You're right it is about attitudes, but all clubs in all leagues (Premier League, NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL etc.) worldwide have ownership with different priorities and who own clubs for different reasons (want to win/ego/was a fan/prestige etc. the list goes on and on). It's their playpen they can do what they want with it, run it as they please and as long as more people are happy than not that's how they will continue to do so. At the end of the day it's something I personally have zero control over so I'm not going to get worked up over it - it's just not worth it. Perhaps if more people got worked up over it,we might just see an even greater attitude change within the club than we've seen this season. After all,you don't think this years somewhat changed outlook in certain areas happened because Mr Black thought of it do you ! 🙄 I think fan pressure might just have had a teensy little bit to do with it. 😉
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2017 12:22:01 GMT
If my memory serves me correctly back in the 12/13 season didn't Werner, Fox, Ling and Benedict only get here in time (and some just in time at that) for the opening game (league/cup or a double up can't remember) of the season? That didn't work out to badly did it? If my memory serves me correctly,that year 12/13 didn't start too well either. We had a poor start that year and many fans wanted half the team gone.....wonder why that was ! Later on,once they'd got gelling,fit and firing we were very good. Although we had no real challengers that season apart from an average Belfast team. Point proven me thinks ! Hold your horses there Mr. Trump point not proven. In September we were 3-2-0I'm pretty sure this should be 4-2-0 because I remember us playing and beating Hull in the first game of the season but that result isn't on the website I found the scores on ( here - bizarre to me that every time the EIHL changes websites it loses all previous boxscores and records but that's irrelevant right now). The 2 losses were to Belfast (as you said the 2nd best team that year) and Sheffield (in what was probably a Challenge Cup match as one of our victories in Sept was against Sheffield in the CC when Anthony Stewart made his debut). So month one we were probably 3-1-0 league wise, wouldn't class that as 'didn't start to well'. In October we were 8-1-1One loss to Belfast (2nd best team) on penalties, one loss to Cardiff away (notorious place of slim pickings for us). So 2 months in we're 11-3-1 (maybe 12-3-1) overall. Yet again, wouldn't class that as 'didn't start to well'. People's issue with that team wasn't that we didn't start well, it was that people (and correctly at that) thought that it wasn't sustainable unless we balanced the team better which we did when Stewart had his stint with us and Lepine came in.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2017 12:33:38 GMT
It's strange though how despite our players routinely arriving late we normally hit the ground running playing wise and then fall off a cliff towards the end of November/early December, which tells me that having all players being here by date X doesn't overly correlate with a successful season league wise (there is one common denominator in that but that's another subject for another time). You're right it is about attitudes, but all clubs in all leagues (Premier League, NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL etc.) worldwide have ownership with different priorities and who own clubs for different reasons (want to win/ego/was a fan/prestige etc. the list goes on and on). It's their playpen they can do what they want with it, run it as they please and as long as more people are happy than not that's how they will continue to do so. At the end of the day it's something I personally have zero control over so I'm not going to get worked up over it - it's just not worth it. Perhaps if more people got worked up over it,we might just see an even greater attitude change within the club than we've seen this season. After all,you don't think this years somewhat changed outlook in certain areas happened because Mr Black thought of it do you ! 🙄 I think fan pressure might just have had a teensy little bit to do with it. 😉 I think we as fans probably give ourselves to much credit and the organisation not enough. I also think the organisation probably gives themselves to much credit and us as fans not enough. That's just human nature though.
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Post by texpef on Aug 8, 2017 15:51:11 GMT
Visa's seem to go smoothly for the Steelers though as all their players are here. Maybe the club should speak to them and ask what they do differently because they always have all their players here for the 1st day of their training camp. It's a different process for everyone, Bussieres and Phillips might have ticked boxes which required further information, or additional appointments etc.. Mokshantsev & Zakharchenko have endless amounts of stuff to do, fill in and get. Passports could get delayed in postal strikes, lost in the post, delayed at passport offices etc.. There's endless amounts of things which could delay each case. It's not ideal, but it's the best we've had in a long time and far from the end of the world. This is pure speculation on your part giving the club the benefit of the doubt which previous history suggests they don't deserve.
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Post by spik on Aug 8, 2017 16:35:46 GMT
I suppose that if you don't want moaners you need to cut the expectations.Don't make statements.
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Post by PantherB on Aug 8, 2017 16:36:15 GMT
It's a different process for everyone, Bussieres and Phillips might have ticked boxes which required further information, or additional appointments etc.. Mokshantsev & Zakharchenko have endless amounts of stuff to do, fill in and get. Passports could get delayed in postal strikes, lost in the post, delayed at passport offices etc.. There's endless amounts of things which could delay each case. It's not ideal, but it's the best we've had in a long time and far from the end of the world. This is pure speculation on your part giving the club the benefit of the doubt which previous history suggests they don't deserve. It's pure speculation to essentially suggest Panthers management have sat with their feet up and done jack about Visa's all summer.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Aug 8, 2017 17:22:48 GMT
This is pure speculation on your part giving the club the benefit of the doubt which previous history suggests they don't deserve. It's pure speculation to essentially suggest Panthers management have sat with their feet up and done jack about Visa's all summer. It could also be pure speculation that both Russians got signed very early doors......likely because Panthers knew they would have visa problems. In which case,why sign Russians when there are thousands of other non Russian hockey players out there ! 🙄
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Post by tootootrain on Aug 8, 2017 17:51:58 GMT
It's pure speculation to essentially suggest Panthers management have sat with their feet up and done jack about Visa's all summer. If this were the first time the Panthers had suffered from 'visa issues' I'd be inclined to agree, but sadly this is far from the case. I can't remember the last time Panthers didn't have issues getting players here in time, unlike our main rivals who seem to manage to get their players here largely drama-free.
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Post by PantherB on Aug 8, 2017 19:33:33 GMT
It's pure speculation to essentially suggest Panthers management have sat with their feet up and done jack about Visa's all summer. If this were the first time the Panthers had suffered from 'visa issues' I'd be inclined to agree, but sadly this is far from the case. I can't remember the last time Panthers didn't have issues getting players here in time, unlike our main rivals who seem to manage to get their players here largely drama-free. I get that for sure, it's frustrating seeing Steelers have their camp run smoothly year in year out, however, unless any of us work for Panthers then we can't really say that it's them who are at fault? Nothing in the world runs perfectly, the passport/immigration system is no different. Anything from a family member with a criminal record, or even visiting a country could delay the visa process, historic illnesses too. We all know it's not as simple as the Visa we all have to apply for/fill out when visiting Canada and the USA so there has to be more people can think of besides Panthers' Management being lazy. If Panthers are at fault, for whatever reason, then 110% point the finger at them. But remember, Panthers do a minor, though key, part of the Players' Visa. Most of it is down to the player and as others have said about Panthers needing to step up their game on chasing players to get it sorted, there isn't much that they can actually do. If it was a guy like Erik Lizon then sure, just cut the losses and sign a different guy but the players we're waiting for are good, valuable players so it's not really like they can cut them, being so late in the off season too.
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Post by PantherB on Aug 8, 2017 19:38:25 GMT
It's pure speculation to essentially suggest Panthers management have sat with their feet up and done jack about Visa's all summer. It could also be pure speculation that both Russians got signed very early doors......likely because Panthers knew they would have visa problems. In which case,why sign Russians when there are thousands of other non Russian hockey players out there ! 🙄 I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't see a Russian signed up for a while after this season, unless they're a real quality player. From how Corey spoke about it, it sounds like he didn't realise how strict the Russia-UK Visa Process is, which is definitely a mistake he's learnt from. Probably assumed it would be similar to North American's system. I doubt it's as strict as the requirements Russia have in place for Brits and NA's heading to Russia, we'd have to receive an actual invitation before we can go to Russia
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dp
Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Aug 8, 2017 21:00:15 GMT
It could also be pure speculation that both Russians got signed very early doors......likely because Panthers knew they would have visa problems. In which case,why sign Russians when there are thousands of other non Russian hockey players out there ! 🙄 I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't see a Russian signed up for a while after this season, unless they're a real quality player. From how Corey spoke about it, it sounds like he didn't realise how strict the Russia-UK Visa Process is, which is definitely a mistake he's learnt from. Probably assumed it would be similar to North American's system. I doubt it's as strict as the requirements Russia have in place for Brits and NA's heading to Russia, we'd have to receive an actual invitation before we can go to Russia I'm sorry but do you seriously buy that? And if he genuinely didn't know, does that make it better or worse?? Shouldn't somebody have told him? Maybe the GM or something?? Does anybody not think it's coincidence that the Clan fans have exactly the same groans with their club getting players in on time that we do? Is there a common denominator?? Given you don't pay the players until they arrive, is there an incentive to them not arriving on time?
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Post by texpef on Aug 8, 2017 21:01:13 GMT
This is pure speculation on your part giving the club the benefit of the doubt which previous history suggests they don't deserve. It's pure speculation to essentially suggest Panthers management have sat with their feet up and done jack about Visa's all summer. And of course you can quote exactly where I have said that cant you? Evidence of watching year after year of this exact same thing happening kind of slants one view of things..
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nate24
Greg Hadden
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Post by nate24 on Aug 8, 2017 21:20:29 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't see a Russian signed up for a while after this season, unless they're a real quality player. From how Corey spoke about it, it sounds like he didn't realise how strict the Russia-UK Visa Process is, which is definitely a mistake he's learnt from. Probably assumed it would be similar to North American's system. I doubt it's as strict as the requirements Russia have in place for Brits and NA's heading to Russia, we'd have to receive an actual invitation before we can go to Russia  I'm sorry but do you seriously buy that? And if he genuinely didn't know, does that make it better or worse?? Shouldn't somebody have told him? Maybe the GM or something?? Does anybody not think it's coincidence that the Clan fans have exactly the same groans with their club getting players in on time that we do? Is there a common denominator?? Given you don't pay the players until they arrive, is there an incentive to them not arriving on time? The last point kinda works with my earlier point. Whilst the majority of fans keep paying the money regardless of team strength Black isn't going to make any more money by playing players earlier so status quo is maintained.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Aug 8, 2017 21:52:07 GMT
I'm sorry but do you seriously buy that? And if he genuinely didn't know, does that make it better or worse?? Shouldn't somebody have told him? Maybe the GM or something?? Does anybody not think it's coincidence that the Clan fans have exactly the same groans with their club getting players in on time that we do? Is there a common denominator?? Given you don't pay the players until they arrive, is there an incentive to them not arriving on time? The last point kinda works with my earlier point. Whilst the majority of fans keep paying the money regardless of team strength Black isn't going to make any more money by playing players earlier so status quo is maintained. He would make some more money,if he gets the better players by paying them earlier,because a winning team increases crowds. It could be the difference between getting the guy you want or him going to say Cardiff. Believe me,it has been an issue,it was mentioned to me by a couple of players.
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Post by bruinspanthers on Aug 9, 2017 11:11:19 GMT
Well, the league is often decided by not many points. If you start the league season an import or two short and drop 2 points you'd have won with a full squad, then getting players in late has cost you the league. I see it season after season with Panthers and it's just massively boring and inevitable now. Just such a badly run club it's laughable - so amateur. Whilst I'd agree the league is won by a few points How many times have Panthers or any of the other teams lost to the likes of say Edinburgh midweek shortbenched in middle of season whilst being full strength themselves Don't get me wrong having a full roster would give us the best chance but you can't say we would win them points we lost Even if they are here doesn't mean they will start well take Ling & Graham's first season by end of year no doubt they were huge impact on our success but October time people wanted them gone!
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Post by PantherTom on Aug 9, 2017 11:15:22 GMT
Phillips should be in today, Delargo should have the all clear and the new player should be signed
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Post by Rob Scott on Aug 9, 2017 11:17:23 GMT
For me it's a real shame that they haven't stuck to what they had said and get the full roster in for this week. It looks like they are doing some good stuff so it's a pitty that so many of the roster are missing out. The games this weekend against a full strength Cardiff team would have been a great way to start bedding in lines and trying this out for the special teams.
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Post by PantherB on Aug 9, 2017 11:41:29 GMT
Phillips should be in today, Delargo should have the all clear and the new player should be signed Corey said nothing more than he hoped to have a decision from the 4 he'd been looking at/talking to by today. Not 'We'll have signing news on Wednesday'. Phillips is in today as you said however, though probably won't be training till tomorrow.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Aug 9, 2017 12:56:02 GMT
Well, the league is often decided by not many points. If you start the league season an import or two short and drop 2 points you'd have won with a full squad, then getting players in late has cost you the league. I see it season after season with Panthers and it's just massively boring and inevitable now. Just such a badly run club it's laughable - so amateur. Whilst I'd agree the league is won by a few points How many times have Panthers or any of the other teams lost to the likes of say Edinburgh midweek shortbenched in middle of season whilst being full strength themselves Don't get me wrong having a full roster would give us the best chance but you can't say we would win them points we lost Even if they are here doesn't mean they will start well take Ling & Graham's first season by end of year no doubt they were huge impact on our success but October time people wanted them gone! All the more reason to make sure they're here early. That way they'd be playing well in September instead of waiting until October ! 🤔 Wait til we get some injuries later in the season. Neilson will then soon be using the old short of bodies excuse,claiming being short benched,tired and blaming fatigue ! # can't have it both ways
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Mark
Randall Weber
Experience has taught me that when it really matters the only person you can rely on is yourself.
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Post by Mark on Aug 9, 2017 14:45:37 GMT
The bottom line is, yet again, we will be behind our main competition as regards preparation and team cohesion.
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Post by Sheetmaself on Aug 9, 2017 15:53:31 GMT
Yes we were told everyone would be here by now.
Yes we seem to yet again have visa issues.
But personally i am prepared to cut them a bit of slack as the team seems like a triple crown winning team to me. If they throw it all away by bad preperation then lets release the hounds, but if they could only get the players they got by some being delayed prob not for visa issues but thats easiest to blame it on then im okay with it.
Be interesting to see where we are after two months as no excuse not to be already marching strongly towards victory.
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Post by PantherG on Aug 9, 2017 15:53:36 GMT
Bottom line is that the season doesn't start until the 9th September, if we are at full strength next week (minus the latest signing) I am not fussed tbh. Corey has more than enough time to spend with these guys before we hit the ice for proper action in November. Yes Sheffield and Cardiff have their guys in, but they have a huge core returning.
Lets not hit the panic button just yet...
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Post by tootootrain on Aug 9, 2017 18:17:24 GMT
Yes Sheffield and Cardiff have their guys in, but they have a huge core returning Are you for real? The very fact our main rivals have "a huge core returning" is even more reason for Panthers to get players in early. Cardiff and Sheffield will already have a degree of team cohesion, Panthers less so.
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Post by PantherG on Aug 9, 2017 18:34:56 GMT
Yes Sheffield and Cardiff have their guys in, but they have a huge core returning Are you for real? The very fact our main rivals have "a huge core returning" is even more reason for Panthers to get players in early. Cardiff and Sheffield will already have a degree of team cohesion, Panthers less so. I am for real! Our guys who returned, the few are all here... I'm just not getting hysterical about the fact that a few players are not yet here. I'm sure that the club was keen to get the players in but if there has been issues with the Russian visa process and it's delayed things so be it.... The club will surely lose money as I personally won't come to watch a team missing 4 or 5 imports but I also appreciate that getting a visa can be a challenge, so will cut them some slack. We have plenty time until the puck drops in September, if they're not here at the start of September I'll start to be concerned, but until then missing a week is not going to worry me too much.
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