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Post by tootootrain on Aug 7, 2017 21:15:01 GMT
The Panthers' annual struggle to find their backside with both hands, regarding getting imports to this little island in time for the start of pre-season training, is why I rarely go to pre-season games.
So much for Black's "we'll only sign players who can be here for the 7th August" tosh. Neilson can cry "right players" all he wants but how have other teams managed to sign the "right players" season after season and get them in in time for pre-season whereas Panthers always seem to suffer from 'Visa issues'?
"Once Is Chance, Twice is Coincidence, Third Time Is A Pattern..."
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dp
Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Aug 7, 2017 21:43:46 GMT
Well, the league is often decided by not many points. If you start the league season an import or two short and drop 2 points you'd have won with a full squad, then getting players in late has cost you the league.
I see it season after season with Panthers and it's just massively boring and inevitable now. Just such a badly run club it's laughable - so amateur.
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Post by hasdrubaal on Aug 7, 2017 22:21:26 GMT
Well, the league is often decided by not many points. If you start the league season an import or two short and drop 2 points you'd have won with a full squad, then getting players in late has cost you the league. I see it season after season with Panthers and it's just massively boring and inevitable now. Just such a badly run club it's laughable - so amateur. Then don't watch and don't comment.
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Post by sevcik on Aug 7, 2017 22:22:48 GMT
If I read the post article correctly it says Derlago is hoping to have his paperwork in place on Wednesday. As such if he does get it as expected I still think it's doubtful (hope I'm wrong) that he will fly in until the weekend or Monday/Tuesday next week. Obviously the club won't book flight until they know he definitely has his visa add into that it's the availability of flights as well as the player himself may have loose ends to tie up. Again I hope I'm wrong but going on the way the article was worded I think it's wildly optimistic that he will fly in on Wednesday. On the Russian/Ukrainian player visa situation all I've got to say is surely if the club hadnt signed players from that region as they stated (Konstantin Kalmikov anyone?) you'd think they would do some preliminary checks at least as to what to expect in terms of potential differences in the via process Though ultimately it's all down to the players - though the club should be in regular contact throughout the process
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Post by brodeurfan1993 on Aug 7, 2017 22:28:37 GMT
The amount of people who moan on here is effing painful
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,436
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Post by iginla on Aug 7, 2017 22:30:37 GMT
Well, the league is often decided by not many points. If you start the league season an import or two short and drop 2 points you'd have won with a full squad, then getting players in late has cost you the league. I see it season after season with Panthers and it's just massively boring and inevitable now. Just such a badly run club it's laughable - so amateur. Then don't watch and don't comment. I can see what Dp is saying here. If you want to win the EIHL,you can't normally lose more than about 12 or13 games in a season. So if you start with several players missing and chuck a few daft early games away by playing short and lose 3 or 4 games in the first month.....you've then got one heck of a mountain to climb to win it ! Why make it even tougher than it needs to be ? Panthers are already masters at doing that in many other ways,it's no wonder their league record is crap !
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Post by hasdrubaal on Aug 7, 2017 22:38:51 GMT
Then don't watch and don't comment. I can see what Dp is saying here. If you want to win the EIHL,you can't normally lose more than about 12 or13 games in a season. So if you start with several players missing and chuck a few daft early games away by playing short and lose 3 or 4 games in the first month.....you've then got one heck of a mountain to climb to win it ! Why make it even tougher than it needs to be ? Panthers are already masters at doing that in many other ways,it's no wonder their league record is crap ! We are 33 days away from the first league game, not one second of league hockey has been played. We haven't lost any games. If by the end of September we are short and we've lost loads of games then fine, fire away with these negative comments. Until then it's down right ridiculous.
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Post by tootootrain on Aug 7, 2017 23:09:07 GMT
If by the end of September we are short and we've lost loads of games then fine, fire away with these negative comments. Until then it's down right ridiculous. To paraphrase what someone else said earlier, if you don't like reading other people's views that may not replicate your own "then don't watch and don't comment".
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Post by hasdrubaal on Aug 7, 2017 23:20:15 GMT
If by the end of September we are short and we've lost loads of games then fine, fire away with these negative comments. Until then it's down right ridiculous. To paraphrase what someone else said earlier, if you don't like reading other people's views that may not replicate your own "then don't watch and don't comment". *snores*
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,436
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Post by iginla on Aug 7, 2017 23:38:47 GMT
I can see what Dp is saying here. If you want to win the EIHL,you can't normally lose more than about 12 or13 games in a season. So if you start with several players missing and chuck a few daft early games away by playing short and lose 3 or 4 games in the first month.....you've then got one heck of a mountain to climb to win it ! Why make it even tougher than it needs to be ? Panthers are already masters at doing that in many other ways,it's no wonder their league record is crap ! We are 33 days away from the first league game, not one second of league hockey has been played. We haven't lost any games. If by the end of September we are short and we've lost loads of games then fine, fire away with these negative comments. Until then it's down right ridiculous. By the first league game they may well be here yes.....but how much training camp will the latecomers have missed,how many games missed,how match fit will they be ? It all adds up and it's not good preparation is it. Don't forget most of these players have never even seen each other before,never mind played together. Like I said before.....why make it harder than it needs to be. Remember how many times have we seen exactly the same situation before......many many times,almost every season in fact !
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nate24
Greg Hadden
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Post by nate24 on Aug 8, 2017 6:17:16 GMT
We are 33 days away from the first league game, not one second of league hockey has been played. We haven't lost any games. If by the end of September we are short and we've lost loads of games then fine, fire away with these negative comments. Until then it's down right ridiculous. By the first league game they may well be here yes.....but how much training camp will the latecomers have missed,how many games missed,how match fit will they be ? It all adds up and it's not good preparation is it. Don't forget most of these players have never even seen each other before,never mind played together. Like I said before.....why make it harder than it needs to be. Remember how many times have we seen exactly the same situation before......many many times,almost every season in fact ! My point exactly. If only we had a GM who's been at the helm for decades with enough insight to head of these issues.
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Post by ashfieldpanther on Aug 8, 2017 7:22:22 GMT
Unfortunately the Panthers can't hold the hands of Russians when it comes to applying for Visas etc, and don't have an inside track in the Russian Embassy asking for favours. It's completely out of the club's hands. They can ring and email players every day telling them to get their applications in, but they can't literally force them to do it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2017 7:35:31 GMT
It's probably no coincidence that you've never seen many Russians in this league of the years due to this very matter .
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nate24
Greg Hadden
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Post by nate24 on Aug 8, 2017 7:52:42 GMT
Unfortunately the Panthers can't hold the hands of Russians when it comes to applying for Visas etc, and don't have an inside track in the Russian Embassy asking for favours. It's completely out of the club's hands. They can ring and email players every day telling them to get their applications in, but they can't literally force them to do it. OK, so that's Russians, what about the rest? If a player is too unreliable to sort his visa don't sort him. It just show a lack of commitment from the get go.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2017 8:47:59 GMT
If my memory serves me correctly back in the 12/13 season didn't Werner, Fox, Ling and Benedict only get here in time (and some just in time at that) for the opening game (league/cup or a double up can't remember) of the season? That didn't work out to badly did it?
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Post by brodeurfan1993 on Aug 8, 2017 8:51:16 GMT
Unfortunately the Panthers can't hold the hands of Russians when it comes to applying for Visas etc, and don't have an inside track in the Russian Embassy asking for favours. It's completely out of the club's hands. They can ring and email players every day telling them to get their applications in, but they can't literally force them to do it. OK, so that's Russians, what about the rest? If a player is too unreliable to sort his visa don't sort him. It just show a lack of commitment from the get go. BUT THIS IS THE POINT. YOU DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT HAS SLOWED THE APPLICATION DOWN SO HOW CAN YOU JUST BLAME THE PLAYER/ CLUB?!?!?!?!?!? For all you know the UK Visa & Immigration Department could be causing the hold up.
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nate24
Greg Hadden
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Post by nate24 on Aug 8, 2017 10:02:15 GMT
OK, so that's Russians, what about the rest? If a player is too unreliable to sort his visa don't sort him. It just show a lack of commitment from the get go. BUT THIS IS THE POINT. YOU DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT HAS SLOWED THE APPLICATION DOWN SO HOW CAN YOU JUST BLAME THE PLAYER/ CLUB?!?!?!?!?!? For all you know the UK Visa & Immigration Department could be causing the hold up. The insinuation before hand was it's the player, I assumed inside information.. And I'm sorry but I've been doing my job 7 years. I work in very fluid and dynamic situations and even so I know the trip ups that will stop things going smoothly. You learn to avoid these things so the majority of players will be visa'd up and landed ready, not half he team trapped in Visa issues. If this is league wide then maybe we need to start in October. But after following the DEL and other Euro leagues for a few seasons pretty closely I can assure you more professional European outfits do not have this issue on this scale. Capitalising a paragraph does nothing to support your point.
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Post by tootootrain on Aug 8, 2017 10:03:35 GMT
If my memory serves me correctly back in the 12/13 season didn't Werner, Fox, Ling and Benedict only get here in time (and some just in time at that) for the opening game (league/cup or a double up can't remember) of the season? That didn't work out to badly did it? But 'visa issues' and late arriving players is something the Panthers seem to suffer every season, whereas our main rivals seem to get their collective backsides in gear and hit the ground running. You can quote the 12/13 season all you want, but in the 20 years Neil Black has owned the team Panthers have just a single league title. Perhaps there is a correlation between players turning up late/in poor fitness and the fact the only trophies Panthers regularly seem to be able to win are the minor trophies that are competed for later in the season? You know, after the late arrivals have had their own training camp during early league games? It's a question of attitudes. Our rivals don't seem happy to accept late arriving players and settling for the 'also-ran' trophies.
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Mark
Randall Weber
Experience has taught me that when it really matters the only person you can rely on is yourself.
Posts: 4,616
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Post by Mark on Aug 8, 2017 10:26:57 GMT
OK, so that's Russians, what about the rest? If a player is too unreliable to sort his visa don't sort him. It just show a lack of commitment from the get go. BUT THIS IS THE POINT. YOU DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT HAS SLOWED THE APPLICATION DOWN SO HOW CAN YOU JUST BLAME THE PLAYER/ CLUB?!?!?!?!?!? For all you know the UK Visa & Immigration Department could be causing the hold up. WHY DON'T OTHER CLUBS HAVE THE SAME ISSUES THEN? EVERY BLOODY SEASON IT'S THE PANTHERS.
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nate24
Greg Hadden
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Post by nate24 on Aug 8, 2017 11:04:12 GMT
I can tell you why. Exactly why. It's because the average Panthers fan does not know this is happening. They left in April and won't give hockey a second thought til September.
They come for a night out and something a little different, they care little for titles, trophies and signing news. It doesn't interest them. They come to the game and go home and don't think much about hockey until their next game.
This is the bulk of our fan base. Every sport has fans like these and they are extremely important however when they make up the bulk of your fan base you are in trouble. They except mediocrity because they are there for a bit of escapism and even bad hockey provides that.
They enjoy trophies but they are a bonus not a necessity.
They buy tickets, food, shirts and other merchandise and attend GM's many auctions and provide the bulk of the clubs revenue come rain or shine.
The more serious fans that want to see the game elevated l, professional attitudes and a standard of hockey comaparable to our European neighbours do not represent a large enough demographic for the club to care about.
TL:DR not enough fans care about this stuff to make it worth the club changing their ways.
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Post by dill1015 on Aug 8, 2017 11:06:45 GMT
I can tell you why. Exactly why. It's because the average Panthers fan does not know this is happening. They left in April and won't give hockey a second thought til September. They come for a night out and something a little different, they care little for titles, trophies and signing news. It doesn't interest them. They come to the game and go home and don't think much about hockey until their next game. This is the bulk of our fan base. Every sport has fans like these and they are extremely important however when they make up the bulk of your fan base you are in trouble. They except mediocrity because they are there for a bit of escapism and even bad hockey provides that. They buy tickets, food, shirts and other merchandise and attend GM's many auctions and provide the bulk of the clubs revenue come rain or shine. The more serious fans that want to see the game elevated l, professional attitudes and a standard of hockey comapreavle to our European neighbours do not represent a large enough demographic for the club to care about. TL:DR not enough fans care about this stuff to make it worth the club changing their ways. Even if alot of our fans are casual. We still have more proper invested fans than most teams.
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nate24
Greg Hadden
Posts: 1,415
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Post by nate24 on Aug 8, 2017 11:25:09 GMT
I can tell you why. Exactly why. It's because the average Panthers fan does not know this is happening. They left in April and won't give hockey a second thought til September. They come for a night out and something a little different, they care little for titles, trophies and signing news. It doesn't interest them. They come to the game and go home and don't think much about hockey until their next game. This is the bulk of our fan base. Every sport has fans like these and they are extremely important however when they make up the bulk of your fan base you are in trouble. They except mediocrity because they are there for a bit of escapism and even bad hockey provides that. They buy tickets, food, shirts and other merchandise and attend GM's many auctions and provide the bulk of the clubs revenue come rain or shine. The more serious fans that want to see the game elevated l, professional attitudes and a standard of hockey comapreavle to our European neighbours do not represent a large enough demographic for the club to care about. TL:DR not enough fans care about this stuff to make it worth the club changing their ways. Even if alot of our fans are casual. We still have more proper invested fans than most teams. It doesn't matter. Not enough make a loud enough noise for the organisation to react.
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Aug 8, 2017 11:34:02 GMT
Whilst today may mark the fact we havn't quite achieved what Black stated it is most definately a step forward for Panthers. Chances are we will have our full team here(maybe the last signing short. Which I will be frustrated by too)2 weeks before our first competitive game. 4 or 5 years ago players would be drip feeding in around early September. Not perfect, absoloutly should be able to match what Sheffield manage to do, and frustrating when people buy tickets for pre season games expecting a full team. However all in all it is a step forward and not a bad place to be. This is pretty much my thinking on it, looking at the photo yesterday my initial reaction was surprise there were so many there That said, it is a bit annoying when guys signed earlier in the window are the ones not here yet. And of course Black giving the fans a bit of the soft soap and telling them what they wanted to hear has set them up for this really. Oh, and (mod hat) next one to deliberately post a paragraph in capital letters is going. Thanks.
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Post by pantherdman on Aug 8, 2017 11:40:04 GMT
Don't Edinburgh have a load of Russians? Let's see how they get on with visas
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Aug 8, 2017 11:46:22 GMT
If my memory serves me correctly back in the 12/13 season didn't Werner, Fox, Ling and Benedict only get here in time (and some just in time at that) for the opening game (league/cup or a double up can't remember) of the season? That didn't work out to badly did it? If my memory serves me correctly,that year 12/13 didn't start too well either. We had a poor start that year and many fans wanted half the team gone.....wonder why that was ! Later on,once they'd got gelling,fit and firing we were very good. Although we had no real challengers that season apart from an average Belfast team. Point proven me thinks !
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