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Post by shaun30 on Oct 30, 2023 13:04:54 GMT
I know everything is still raw with this
But I think we need to start the discussion about mandating the use of neck guards and protection in all levels of hockey. There has to be some learning from this tragedy.
I was watching an nhl game last night and all I could look at was the neck areas that are so exposed
Just want it out there
Stay strong all x
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Post by kievthegreat on Oct 30, 2023 14:06:21 GMT
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Post by Bagheera on Oct 30, 2023 14:24:24 GMT
It's a bit of a dangerous game to invite opinions at the time. I will share my opinion but please let's not start getting upset with each other.
My view is they should be mandated for all junior hockey with immediate effect. Form habbits whilst young that will hopefully mean most will continue to wear in to senior hockey.
Current players, senior players know the risks, now they've seen what can happen. It's still their choice. However,I also understand the arguement that it's also about those effected that are around it. I wouldn't complain if it was mandated for all, but think it's a choice individuals should make for themselves.
The only thing it compared to is the tragedy of Phil Hughes in cricket. Some leagues mandate stem guards but they still arnt at international level.
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Post by wgray on Oct 30, 2023 14:39:03 GMT
I’d like to see all ice hockey governing bodies enforce this at all levels. There has to be a response to what has happened, players in the NHL have been fortunate before, Adam was not. I believe the EIHL should mandate it straight away.
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TjPanther
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Post by TjPanther on Oct 30, 2023 14:49:40 GMT
I’d like to see all ice hockey governing bodies enforce this at all levels. There has to be a response to what has happened, players in the NHL have been fortunate before, Adam was not. I believe the EIHL should mandate it straight away. I have to agree with this, if the EIHL takes this step it can only be positive for the safety of our game and making sure the same tragedy doesn’t get repeated. Being proactive at this stage has got be the eihl ( and it’s teams) immediate response. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2023 15:14:21 GMT
Rules are always written in blood I'm afraid. It always takes something like this before things tighten up. I'll be surprised if HSE haven't insisted all professional clubs have them as a mandatory requirement now as over 18s is currently optional I believe |
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Post by texpef on Oct 30, 2023 15:28:56 GMT
is there a downside to forcing this as mandatory? IF not i cant see why it hasnt already been introduced?
I heard players such as Hunty got rid of the compulsory facemask as soon as the rules allowed i.e. they stopped being a junior, could this be a player preference? I hope this absolute disaster gives pause to alot of decisions now.
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Post by Spooks on Oct 30, 2023 15:48:50 GMT
Player choice, statistically this is completely at the far end of the bell curve. If it was happening every season then absolutely. Under 18s maybe but again from a statistical evidence point of view nothing. Yes its the ultimate price and for all we understand about the injury the guard may or not be effective.
Everyone who plays fully understands the risk its the players union/groups/representatives to decide, no one else, its the same as trying to ban the TT and yet more people pay that price year on year.
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Post by kievthegreat on Oct 30, 2023 15:53:31 GMT
is there a downside to forcing this as mandatory? IF not i cant see why it hasnt already been introduced? I heard players such as Hunty got rid of the compulsory facemask as soon as the rules allowed i.e. they stopped being a junior, could this be a player preference? I hope this absolute disaster gives pause to alot of decisions now. There is often a reluctance to change things in sport. Ice Hockey introducing Helmets and then Visors is one. Plenty of players hated them and didn't want to wear them. Grandfather rules meant some could get away with not, but eventually it flowed up from Junior levels where these things became mandatory first. There is also the argument that players never want anything that could impact their play, challenges a perception or just isn't comfortable. Hockey players as juniors play with a full cage, but nearly all ditch it when they get to 18 for comfort, visibility and probably bravado. Footballers will sometimes wear the teeny tiniest shin pad that would look small on a toddler so it's less restrictive. Some racing drivers opposed mandatory seat belts because they were worried it might make them slower to get out of burning cars, but it turns out you could leave a car pretty quickly without wanting to if you're not strapped in. |
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Post by blackpanther2011 on Oct 30, 2023 16:08:48 GMT
First off I wish everyone well and hope they can recover in time as we come to terms with Adams passing and be there for each other through these dark days as a great and powerful Hockey community/world.
Secondly I wholeheartedly agree that the hockey and sporting world does need to learn from tragedies like this to make it a safer game and implement equipment so things like this doesn't happen again.
Sadly however with most sports, Football, Rugby, Cricket, Motor Racing (Bikes and Cars), Professional Wrestling, Ice Hockey and so on, accidents and tragedies can and do happen and this no exception.
Safety in all sports has improved greatly in recent years but everyone still knows the risk of what sport they play. Nowadays in almost every sport you may follow and enjoy it takes 1 tragedy for sporting bodies to act, Football - Hillsborough, Marco Simoncelli (MotoGP), Jackie Stewart F1 - to name a few however the game of Ice Hockey will forever be one of a few dangerous sports on the planet to play. I do however agree neck guards or shields do need to be implemented and should be implemented immediately to prevent similar events like this from happening. With technology being so good these days it wouldn't take long for someone to create a shield or guard that could be clipped onto or stitched into the shoulder pads or into the hockey jerseys collars themselves that would be flexible to not restrict the players head movements but also give enough protection to prevent a blade from getting through.
To finish, Stay strong everyone and please note that at the end of the day we come together as ONE community of love and togetherness regardless of Team or Jersey we may wear.
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Post by Yotes on Oct 30, 2023 16:12:30 GMT
As Pidge says I would imagine some of this may be taken out of UK ice hockey's hands as a lot of outside bodies will have a look our way.
There are plenty of areas of life where safety equipment is mandated for what are mercifully small risks, this to me would appear another one. It's not stopping people playing the sport.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2023 16:22:43 GMT
I've seen the term 'data and statically' mentioned alot .. yes it's incredibly rare what had happened but take flying .. statically the safest form of travel but when disaster occurs the FAA (Governing body) investigates and brings in new safety measures in a instant it's not a option it's in black and white . I think this will be the same we ain't talking about serious injury here ...
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Post by Bagheera on Oct 30, 2023 16:40:43 GMT
Having looked at some examples earlier today, I will say that soem modern versions hardly look uncomfotable or like theyd cause any irritation. If the skins/underarmour turtle neck version with Kevlar add protection then I dont see why most players wouldn't at least be open to trying those anyway.
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Post by bobness on Oct 30, 2023 17:00:48 GMT
It's a bit of a dangerous game to invite opinions at the time. I will share my opinion but please let's not start getting upset with each other. My view is they should be mandated for all junior hockey with immediate effect. Form habbits whilst young that will hopefully mean most will continue to wear in to senior hockey. Current players, senior players know the risks, now they've seen what can happen. It's still their choice. However,I also understand the arguement that it's also about those effected that are around it. I wouldn't complain if it was mandated for all, but think it's a choice individuals should make for themselves. The only thing it compared to is the tragedy of Phil Hughes in cricket. Some leagues mandate stem guards but they still arnt at international level. That was the analogy I came up with too, Phil Hughes. I'm not sure how you protect the neck without restricting movement, but I agree, get it in young, make it "normal" to wear whatever it is you need to wear. I played cricket for years without a helmet, then as soon as I wore one, felt naked without it. It never bothered me. (I'd "retired" long before 2014.) Hockey could do what it did with visors? Mandate it for "new" players, grandfather rights for existing? I guess if it makes even one bit of difference, that's a positive. |
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Post by kievthegreat on Oct 30, 2023 17:10:02 GMT
It's a bit of a dangerous game to invite opinions at the time. I will share my opinion but please let's not start getting upset with each other. My view is they should be mandated for all junior hockey with immediate effect. Form habbits whilst young that will hopefully mean most will continue to wear in to senior hockey. Current players, senior players know the risks, now they've seen what can happen. It's still their choice. However,I also understand the arguement that it's also about those effected that are around it. I wouldn't complain if it was mandated for all, but think it's a choice individuals should make for themselves. The only thing it compared to is the tragedy of Phil Hughes in cricket. Some leagues mandate stem guards but they still arnt at international level. That was the analogy I came up with too, Phil Hughes. I'm not sure how you protect the neck without restricting movement, but I agree, get it in young, make it "normal" to wear whatever it is you need to wear. I played cricket for years without a helmet, then as soon as I wore one, felt naked without it. It never bothered me. (I'd "retired" long before 2014.) Hockey could do what it did with visors? Mandate it for "new" players, grandfather rights for existing? I guess if it makes even one bit of difference, that's a positive. A cut resistant turtleneck type solution needn't be overly restrictive. www.willies.co.uk/collections/ice-hockey-neck-guards/products/ccm-cut-resistant-neck-guard-top |
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Post by kievthegreat on Oct 30, 2023 17:11:16 GMT
EIHA who run the leagues below the EIHL in England (and Wales?) are making neck protectors mandatory from 1st Jan 2024: eiha.co.uk/eiha-update-player-safety/"Undoubtedly, this moment in time casts a sombre shadow upon our global sporting community, serving as a stark reminder of our collective responsibilities as custodians of the sport. As in all sports, the safety of our players must take precedence above all else. We are firmly committed to our obligation to exhaust every possible means to ensure that a tragic incident of this nature never befalls our sport again. With this paramount consideration in mind and recognising the need for short, medium and long-term, the English Ice Hockey Association (EIHA) has resolved to undertake the following actions, aligning with Ice Hockey UK and Scottish Ice Hockey: 1. SHORT TERM (Immediate): The EIHA makes a “strong recommendation” that all players at all levels across English Ice Hockey use an approved Ice Hockey Neck Guard/Protector whilst participating in all on ice activities. This “strong recommendation” is in place until 31 December 2023, after which it will become a mandatory requirement. It is not mandatory with immediate effect due to anticipated supply issues. This will be under constant review between now and mandatory implementation. All protective equipment must be worn without alterations and as directed by the manufacturers’ specification. 2. MEDIUM TERM (Within 12 months): The EIHA, in consultation with relevant stakeholders, will conduct a Player Safety Equipment thorough review considering all aspects of player safety equipment including, but not limited to, the use of helmets, mouthguards/gumshields and facial protection, and the application of IIHF rules. 3. LONG TERM (Ongoing): The EIHA will provide its membership with clear guidance on the ongoing and continuous improvement of Player Safety and their duties within this area. This will include the requirement for all clubs to be able to demonstrate that they proactively manage Player Safety within their organisations. It is unacceptable for any player to lose their life while playing sport. Our responsibility is not only to avert the recurrence of such a heart-breaking accident, but also to pre-emptively address other foreseeable incidents in the future. We bear both a legal and a moral obligation to respond in a measured and pragmatic way. There is a distinct likelihood that comprehensive evaluations will transpire at the international level, and the EIHA is committed to taking an active and constructive role in this comprehensive process." |
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Post by Bagheera on Oct 31, 2023 11:07:15 GMT
I'm going to post it here to avoid the kindness in the other thread.
The trolls are really making it hard to deal with social media. Twitter in particular. So much vile stuff aimed at Petgrave.
It really tipped me over the edge this morning when I saw the replies to posts from Panthers players themselves. Michund had tweeted support for Petgrave only for the replies to be full of all the horrific stuff. I know some are bots but many arn't. Most arn't from these shores and are all the same type of people. I just cant believe theyd even bring it to to those who are most traumatised by it.
Most hockey fans and Britsh hockey fans are supporting him which is great to see.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2023 11:17:19 GMT
All the vitriol aimed at Petgrave seems to have stemed from over the pond from what I've seen
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Post by jd on Oct 31, 2023 12:08:51 GMT
Not all, some have called into question how it was an accident
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Post by blackandgold73 on Oct 31, 2023 12:39:13 GMT
I'm going to post it here to avoid the kindness in the other thread. The trolls are really making it hard to deal with social media. Twitter in particular. So much vile stuff aimed at Petgrave. It really tipped me over the edge this morning when I saw the replies to posts from Panthers players themselves. Michund had tweeted support for Petgrave only for the replies to be full of all the horrific stuff. I know some are bots but many arn't. Most arn't from these shores and are all the same type of people. I just cant believe theyd even bring it to to those who are most traumatised by it. Most hockey fans and Britsh hockey fans are supporting him which is great to see. I seem to be reporting 20-30 posts or replies every time I'm on Twitter. Not that it seems to make the blindest bit of difference with virtually no moderators left. Every post has been in violation of the rules but days later they are still there. Cheers Elon |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2023 12:41:34 GMT
I'm going to post it here to avoid the kindness in the other thread. The trolls are really making it hard to deal with social media. Twitter in particular. So much vile stuff aimed at Petgrave. It really tipped me over the edge this morning when I saw the replies to posts from Panthers players themselves. Michund had tweeted support for Petgrave only for the replies to be full of all the horrific stuff. I know some are bots but many arn't. Most arn't from these shores and are all the same type of people. I just cant believe theyd even bring it to to those who are most traumatised by it. Most hockey fans and Britsh hockey fans are supporting him which is great to see. I seem to be reporting 20-30 posts or replies every time I'm on Twitter. Not that it seems to make the blindest bit of difference with virtually no moderators left. Every post has been in violation of the rules but days later they are still there. Cheers Elon Pointless mate. Elon laid off over 50% of his workforce this year . |
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Post by blackandgold73 on Oct 31, 2023 13:13:48 GMT
I seem to be reporting 20-30 posts or replies every time I'm on Twitter. Not that it seems to make the blindest bit of difference with virtually no moderators left. Every post has been in violation of the rules but days later they are still there. Cheers Elon Pointless mate. Elon laid off over 50% of his workforce this year . That was my point about lack of moderators too. There's not much I can do to help his family and team mates but I can at least *try* to minimise some of the worst excesses they might encounter |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2023 13:15:35 GMT
Pointless mate. Elon laid off over 50% of his workforce this year . That was my point about lack of moderators too. There's not much I can do to help his family and team mates but I can at least *try* to minimise some of the worst excesses they might encounter Most are probably bots. Not sure if Petgrave is on social media |
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Post by Bagheera on Oct 31, 2023 13:21:31 GMT
That was my point about lack of moderators too. There's not much I can do to help his family and team mates but I can at least *try* to minimise some of the worst excesses they might encounter Most are probably bots. Not sure if Petgrave is on social media He is. He's changed his twitter settings to private. I really hope he hasn't got his head in this toilet at the momment. All I wanted to do the last few mornings was look for tributes made for AJ. By searching his name to do so, all I was greeted with was bot post, after bot post of the video. That coupled with so many other posts dragged down by the same vile people in the comments. It turns you from sad to angry very quickly. I dont reply to any of them as it's just feeding them but id love to meet a few of the real ones face to face. |
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Post by blackandgold73 on Oct 31, 2023 14:33:36 GMT
That was my point about lack of moderators too. There's not much I can do to help his family and team mates but I can at least *try* to minimise some of the worst excesses they might encounter Most are probably bots. Not sure if Petgrave is on social media In this post I was actually referring to Adam's family primarily given that many of the posts would be particularly distressing to them. But the same is true for others affected and present on the ice like Petgrave. And I've reported posts attacking a number of people or trying to spread things that would cause distress to many |
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