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Post by wgray on Dec 28, 2021 14:58:01 GMT
It’s obvious that we’ve been underfunded this season but yesterday’s lack of bodies was a factor as well.
Our line-up yesterday was:
Tousignant - Welsh - Boivin Lane - Kelsall - Baillargeon Richards - Myers - Betteridge Clarke - - Hopkins
Thow - Norrish Tetlow - Matheson Brassard -
If we look back to 19/20, Tousignant was playing a 3rd line checking role, yesterday he was on the 1st line. Kelsall was 4th line RW, yesterday he was centring our 2nd line. Myers was centre on Cardiff’s 4th line, yesterday he played 3rd line centre and is a regular on the powerplay. Tetlow was playing as 7th dman in 19/20. These players bring a lot to the team but they’re being asked to do what they previously haven’t.
Jokinen and Suoranta leaving has really hurt us over these two games, but if we’re going to achieve anything this season then Black needs to invest some more money and Doucet needs to be smart with budget he already has and let other players go, if it means we can attract the players we need.
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Post by iginla on Dec 28, 2021 17:12:37 GMT
Didn't Neil Black state if attendances drop the budget will reduce accordingly? If so that's tantamount to blackmail. Neil Black has stated on several occasions that this years budget is based on last years figures. Personally I don’t believe it,because after the high crowds of the 12/13 season and the subsequent couple of years after that the quality of the team since then has been a load of crap and continues to drop !
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Post by iginla on Dec 28, 2021 17:20:53 GMT
It’s obvious that we’ve been underfunded this season but yesterday’s lack of bodies was a factor as well. Our line-up yesterday was: Tousignant - Welsh - Boivin Lane - Kelsall - Baillargeon Richards - Myers - Betteridge Clarke - - Hopkins Thow - Norrish Tetlow - Matheson Brassard - If we look back to 19/20, Tousignant was playing a 3rd line checking role, yesterday he was on the 1st line. Kelsall was 4th line RW, yesterday he was centring our 2nd line. Myers was centre on Cardiff’s 4th line, yesterday he played 3rd line centre and is a regular on the powerplay. Tetlow was playing as 7th dman in 19/20. These players bring a lot to the team but they’re being asked to do what they previously haven’t. Jokinen and Suoranta leaving has really hurt us over these two games, but if we’re going to achieve anything this season then Black needs to invest some more money and Doucet needs to be smart with budget he already has and let other players go, if it means we can attract the players we need. And yet Panthers did actually have eleven imports yesterday....one more than Steelers had. Says it all really. 🙄
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Post by Yotes on Dec 28, 2021 17:21:20 GMT
Have we heard why Doherty didn't feature in this one?
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Post by iginla on Dec 28, 2021 17:22:52 GMT
Have we heard why Doherty didn't feature in this one? Not yet.
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Post by Mark on Dec 28, 2021 17:27:08 GMT
Didn't Neil Black state if attendances drop the budget will reduce accordingly? If so that's tantamount to blackmail. Neil Black has stated on several occasions that this years budget is based on last years figures. Personally I don’t believe it,because after the high crowds of the 12/13 season and the subsequent couple of years after that the quality of the team since then has been a load of crap and continues to drop ! I suspect being economical with the truth comes rather easily to Neil Black.
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Post by messier1851 on Dec 28, 2021 20:06:01 GMT
If we look back to 19/20, Tousignant was playing a 3rd line checking role, yesterday he was on the 1st line. Kelsall was 4th line RW, yesterday he was centring our 2nd line. Myers was centre on Cardiff’s 4th line, yesterday he played 3rd line centre and is a regular on the powerplay. Tetlow was playing as 7th dman in 19/20. These players bring a lot to the team but they’re being asked to do what they previously haven’t. This is very true, there are a few decent pieces in this line-up but it's hugely lacking in genuine, top end talent. Richards, Lane and Kelsall, are all third liners at best, Boivin would be fine supplying secondary scoring but he shouldn't be on the first line. Welsh is the only actual top liner on the team. It's a similar story on the back end, Matheson has been a fine player but I felt like Father Time has caught up with him, he can't play the same kind of minutes he was in 19/20. Norrish, Thow and Brassard are all very similar, fairly mobile, neat and tidy but you don't need three of them. No toughness, nobody who can find a loose puck in front of the net, nobody who can quarter-back a powerplay. Cheap, bland, uninspiring.
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Post by wgray on Dec 28, 2021 21:07:47 GMT
If we look back to 19/20, Tousignant was playing a 3rd line checking role, yesterday he was on the 1st line. Kelsall was 4th line RW, yesterday he was centring our 2nd line. Myers was centre on Cardiff’s 4th line, yesterday he played 3rd line centre and is a regular on the powerplay. Tetlow was playing as 7th dman in 19/20. These players bring a lot to the team but they’re being asked to do what they previously haven’t. This is very true, there are a few decent pieces in this line-up but it's hugely lacking in genuine, top end talent. Richards, Lane and Kelsall, are all third liners at best, Boivin would be fine supplying secondary scoring but he shouldn't be on the first line. Welsh is the only actual top liner on the team. It's a similar story on the back end, Matheson has been a fine player but I felt like Father Time has caught up with him, he can't play the same kind of minutes he was in 19/20. Norrish, Thow and Brassard are all very similar, fairly mobile, neat and tidy but you don't need three of them. No toughness, nobody who can find a loose puck in front of the net, nobody who can quarter-back a powerplay. Cheap, bland, uninspiring. In fairness to Tim and Gui injuries haven’t helped us at all this season, (Does anybody have any idea what is wrong with Lee?) but if we’re analysing the team, and being brutal, then I think a few players should have been replaced a while ago. Lane works hard, plays with speed but it constantly amounts to nothing, he has 2g in 16 league games. Baillargeon is our 3rd top point scorer in the league but I can’t recall him having a single decent chance over the last two games, he’s quite anonymous in games and rarely creates for his teammates. As you say, the back end doesn’t seem to have had much success either, Matheson and Doherty however have been really disappointing. Matheson has some credit in the bank and I agree time may be catching up with him now. Doherty hasn’t brought what we needed though, no physicality at the back, no defensive solidity and no enforcement. I know nothing about the game in comparison to Tim and Gui, but after watching our current squad get run ragged by Sheffield and Belfast I think we’d have to setup with the following to be anywhere near competing with them. - - Boivin - Welsh - Domingue Carozza - Tousignant - Betteridge Richards - Myers Thow - Tetlow - Norrish Brassard - Lee So a top forward line and a top pairing defence-man we need😂I’ve lost my mind. Obviously this would be if everyone was back from injury leaving Matheson as injury cover.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Dec 28, 2021 21:37:29 GMT
This is very true, there are a few decent pieces in this line-up but it's hugely lacking in genuine, top end talent. Richards, Lane and Kelsall, are all third liners at best, Boivin would be fine supplying secondary scoring but he shouldn't be on the first line. Welsh is the only actual top liner on the team. It's a similar story on the back end, Matheson has been a fine player but I felt like Father Time has caught up with him, he can't play the same kind of minutes he was in 19/20. Norrish, Thow and Brassard are all very similar, fairly mobile, neat and tidy but you don't need three of them. No toughness, nobody who can find a loose puck in front of the net, nobody who can quarter-back a powerplay. Cheap, bland, uninspiring. In fairness to Tim and Gui injuries haven’t helped us at all this season, (Does anybody have any idea what is wrong with Lee?) but if we’re analysing the team, and being brutal, then I think a few players should have been replaced a while ago. Lane works hard, plays with speed but it constantly amounts to nothing, he has 2g in 16 league games. Baillargeon is our 3rd top point scorer in the league but I can’t recall him having a single decent chance over the last two games, he’s quite anonymous in games and rarely creates for his teammates. As you say, the back end doesn’t seem to have had much success either, Matheson and Doherty however have been really disappointing. Matheson has some credit in the bank and I agree time may be catching up with him now. Doherty hasn’t brought what we needed though, no physicality at the back, no defensive solidity and no enforcement. I know nothing about the game in comparison to Tim and Gui, but after watching our current squad get run ragged by Sheffield and Belfast I think we’d have to setup with the following to be anywhere near competing with them. - - Boivin - Welsh - Domingue Carozza - Tousignant - Betteridge Richards - Myers - Tetlow - Norrish Brassard - Lee So a top forward line and a top defence pairing we need😂I’ve lost my mind. Obviously this would be if everyone was back from injury leaving Matheson as injury cover. Wallace and Gromit are the problem. Poor recruiting even with a terrible budget. They both have enough EIHL experience to know what it takes are they are a million miles off the mark. They were both fooled by the mini-league season when they used that team as a basis not realizing that other teams were just making up the numbers. Small, fast, and skillful team but without the needed speed and skill. Wallace was naive and Gromit has proven to be just an over-promoted waste of space.
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Post by iginla on Dec 28, 2021 21:53:08 GMT
In fairness to Tim and Gui injuries haven’t helped us at all this season, (Does anybody have any idea what is wrong with Lee?) but if we’re analysing the team, and being brutal, then I think a few players should have been replaced a while ago. Lane works hard, plays with speed but it constantly amounts to nothing, he has 2g in 16 league games. Baillargeon is our 3rd top point scorer in the league but I can’t recall him having a single decent chance over the last two games, he’s quite anonymous in games and rarely creates for his teammates. As you say, the back end doesn’t seem to have had much success either, Matheson and Doherty however have been really disappointing. Matheson has some credit in the bank and I agree time may be catching up with him now. Doherty hasn’t brought what we needed though, no physicality at the back, no defensive solidity and no enforcement. I know nothing about the game in comparison to Tim and Gui, but after watching our current squad get run ragged by Sheffield and Belfast I think we’d have to setup with the following to be anywhere near competing with them. - - Boivin - Welsh - Domingue Carozza - Tousignant - Betteridge Richards - Myers - Tetlow - Norrish Brassard - Lee So a top forward line and a top defence pairing we need😂I’ve lost my mind. Obviously this would be if everyone was back from injury leaving Matheson as injury cover. Wallace and Gromit are the problem. Poor recruiting even with a terrible budget. They both have enough EIHL experience to know what it takes are they are a million miles off the mark. They were both fooled by the mini-league season when they used that team as a basis not realizing that other teams were just making up the numbers. Small, fast, and skillful team but without the needed speed and skill. Wallace was naive and Gromit has proven to be just an over-promoted waste of space. Mmmm I don’t want to say told you so,but what you’ve just said there is exactly what I said when half the fan base thought we had a great team because they’d won the Elite Series and when they appointed Doucet in the first place. It’s pretty obvious Black hasn’t given them a great budget this year but Wallace and Gromit have also taken chances and made poor choices all over the roster.
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Post by Mark on Dec 29, 2021 7:09:21 GMT
So, ideally we get shot of the whole kit and kaboodle and start again? I like it.
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Post by bobness on Dec 29, 2021 9:07:04 GMT
Our line-up yesterday was: Tousignant - Welsh - Boivin Lane - Kelsall - Baillargeon Richards - Myers - Betteridge Clarke - - Hopkins This is a poor use of resources IMHO. I don't usually comment on line combinations (years of watching Nielson has made me wary) but I will make an exception here. The top line looks OK. A sniper, a set up man and an agitator. Possibly not the most feared top line in the EIHL, but has all the pieces. The issue is the balance of the other 2 lines. If I was Olly I'd be spitting feathers that as soon as the "heat" is on, despite me being one of the more credible and potent offensive threats this year, here I am, back on the "checking" line, with the old man* and a brand new pro, at the expense of Baillargeon, who looks like a lot like a coaster to me, despite his points tally. (Tyler Biggs without the heft? Would welcome other thoughts.) Give Richards a chance, have the second line as 51/21/74, and third as 9/8/14. Surely that's a better balance? It at least gives you another line that looks like it might create a chance or two. Just a thought. I further notice one of the lines that was scored on in Sheffield was 6/14/18. To have ALL your three most inexperienced players on the ice vs Dowd, Eberle and Armstrong (just the 43 points between them this year so far) is a tactical decision that could easily be called into question. Nothing against the three at all, far from it, but all three together? In Sheffield? On Boxing Day? When Panthers are 1-0 down early? *used in jest, of course.
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Post by iginla on Dec 29, 2021 10:42:30 GMT
Our line-up yesterday was: Tousignant - Welsh - Boivin Lane - Kelsall - Baillargeon Richards - Myers - Betteridge Clarke - - Hopkins This is a poor use of resources IMHO. I don't usually comment on line combinations (years of watching Nielson has made me wary) but I will make an exception here. The top line looks OK. A sniper, a set up man and an agitator. Possibly not the most feared top line in the EIHL, but has all the pieces. The issue is the balance of the other 2 lines. If I was Olly I'd be spitting feathers that as soon as the "heat" is on, despite me being one of the more credible and potent offensive threats this year, here I am, back on the "checking" line, with the old man* and a brand new pro, at the expense of Baillargeon, who looks like a lot like a coaster to me, despite his points tally. (Tyler Biggs without the heft? Would welcome other thoughts.) Give Richards a chance, have the second line as 51/21/74, and third as 9/8/14. Surely that's a better balance? It at least gives you another line that looks like it might create a chance or two. Just a thought. I further notice one of the lines that was scored on in Sheffield was 6/14/18. To have ALL your three most inexperienced players on the ice vs Dowd, Eberle and Armstrong (just the 43 points between them this year so far) is a tactical decision that could easily be called into question. Nothing against the three at all, far from it, but all three together? In Sheffield? On Boxing Day? When Panthers are 1-0 down early? *used in jest, of course. Very true. With line combo’s one only has to look at the line of Benedict/Ling/Graham to see what a line should consist of. A workhorse who won the puck,gave it to the set up guy who fed the goalscorer. It really shouldn’t be that hard to put the pieces together or at least look like “you tried” to !
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2021 11:52:47 GMT
This is a poor use of resources IMHO. I don't usually comment on line combinations (years of watching Nielson has made me wary) but I will make an exception here. The top line looks OK. A sniper, a set up man and an agitator. Possibly not the most feared top line in the EIHL, but has all the pieces. The issue is the balance of the other 2 lines. If I was Olly I'd be spitting feathers that as soon as the "heat" is on, despite me being one of the more credible and potent offensive threats this year, here I am, back on the "checking" line, with the old man* and a brand new pro, at the expense of Baillargeon, who looks like a lot like a coaster to me, despite his points tally. (Tyler Biggs without the heft? Would welcome other thoughts.) Give Richards a chance, have the second line as 51/21/74, and third as 9/8/14. Surely that's a better balance? It at least gives you another line that looks like it might create a chance or two. Just a thought. I further notice one of the lines that was scored on in Sheffield was 6/14/18. To have ALL your three most inexperienced players on the ice vs Dowd, Eberle and Armstrong (just the 43 points between them this year so far) is a tactical decision that could easily be called into question. Nothing against the three at all, far from it, but all three together? In Sheffield? On Boxing Day? When Panthers are 1-0 down early? *used in jest, of course. Very true. With line combo’s one only has to look at the line of Benedict/Ling/Graham to see what a line should consist of. A workhorse who won the puck,gave it to the set up guy who fed the goalscorer. It really shouldn’t be that hard to put the pieces together or at least look like “you tried” to ! If this season ends like it's started then panthers have failed in their requirement.. to me Gui gets one more chance to put it right else he has to go!
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Post by wgray on Dec 29, 2021 13:45:04 GMT
Our line-up yesterday was: Tousignant - Welsh - Boivin Lane - Kelsall - Baillargeon Richards - Myers - Betteridge Clarke - - Hopkins This is a poor use of resources IMHO. I don't usually comment on line combinations (years of watching Nielson has made me wary) but I will make an exception here. The top line looks OK. A sniper, a set up man and an agitator. Possibly not the most feared top line in the EIHL, but has all the pieces. The issue is the balance of the other 2 lines. If I was Olly I'd be spitting feathers that as soon as the "heat" is on, despite me being one of the more credible and potent offensive threats this year, here I am, back on the "checking" line, with the old man* and a brand new pro, at the expense of Baillargeon, who looks like a lot like a coaster to me, despite his points tally. (Tyler Biggs without the heft? Would welcome other thoughts.) Give Richards a chance, have the second line as 51/21/74, and third as 9/8/14. Surely that's a better balance? It at least gives you another line that looks like it might create a chance or two. Just a thought. I further notice one of the lines that was scored on in Sheffield was 6/14/18. To have ALL your three most inexperienced players on the ice vs Dowd, Eberle and Armstrong (just the 43 points between them this year so far) is a tactical decision that could easily be called into question. Nothing against the three at all, far from it, but all three together? In Sheffield? On Boxing Day? When Panthers are 1-0 down early? *used in jest, of course. I don’t think we’re getting the most out of Ollie either. After starting off really well I don’t think he’s had anywhere near the same impact, his performances at the start of the season carried the team, now he’s not producing as much the inability of the others is more apparent. According to the game sheet he did have 9 sog but I can’t remember him having any great chances where I thought he should have scored. My thoughts on Baillargeon are similar, he just drifts through games, he doesn’t have any where near the impact that we need. When we signed him I was surprised at how many goals he scored for MK, I couldn’t recall him playing for them. Looking at his current stats in a bit more depth, 2 of his 5 league goals are ENG, so his goal total is slightly inflated. I’ve talked about what I’d like Doucet to do but I’ll not hold my breath. If we continue with the same numbers then I’d like Wallace to try 51/21/74 as well.
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Post by ashfieldpanther on Dec 29, 2021 14:11:50 GMT
This is a poor use of resources IMHO. I don't usually comment on line combinations (years of watching Nielson has made me wary) but I will make an exception here. The top line looks OK. A sniper, a set up man and an agitator. Possibly not the most feared top line in the EIHL, but has all the pieces. The issue is the balance of the other 2 lines. If I was Olly I'd be spitting feathers that as soon as the "heat" is on, despite me being one of the more credible and potent offensive threats this year, here I am, back on the "checking" line, with the old man* and a brand new pro, at the expense of Baillargeon, who looks like a lot like a coaster to me, despite his points tally. (Tyler Biggs without the heft? Would welcome other thoughts.) Give Richards a chance, have the second line as 51/21/74, and third as 9/8/14. Surely that's a better balance? It at least gives you another line that looks like it might create a chance or two. Just a thought. I further notice one of the lines that was scored on in Sheffield was 6/14/18. To have ALL your three most inexperienced players on the ice vs Dowd, Eberle and Armstrong (just the 43 points between them this year so far) is a tactical decision that could easily be called into question. Nothing against the three at all, far from it, but all three together? In Sheffield? On Boxing Day? When Panthers are 1-0 down early? *used in jest, of course. I don’t think we’re getting the most out of Ollie either. After starting off really well I don’t think he’s had anywhere near the same impact, his performances at the start of the season carried the team, now he’s not producing as much the inability of the others is more apparent. According to the game sheet he did have 9 sog but I can’t remember him having any great chances where I thought he should have scored. My thoughts on Baillargeon are similar, he just drifts through games, he doesn’t have any where near the impact that we need. When we signed him I was surprised at how many goals he scored for MK, I couldn’t recall him playing for them. Looking at his current stats in a bit more depth, 2 of his 5 league goals are ENG, so his goal total is slightly inflated. I’ve talked about what I’d like Doucet to do but I’ll not hold my breath. If we continue with the same numbers then I’d like Wallace to try 51/21/74 as well. I may have mentioned, or thought, when we signed #9 that he scored a lot of points at MK but he was the new kid on the block keen to make an impact, he had Golovkovs who was a good setup man for them, and he probably got a bit more space being relatively unknown. This season he's having to do more with less. We see occasional flashes but he does drift in and out. And take silly penalties.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Dec 29, 2021 15:54:29 GMT
Very true. With line combo’s one only has to look at the line of Benedict/Ling/Graham to see what a line should consist of. A workhorse who won the puck,gave it to the set up guy who fed the goalscorer. It really shouldn’t be that hard to put the pieces together or at least look like “you tried” to ! If this season ends like it's started then panthers have failed in their requirement.. to me Gui gets one more chance to put it right else he has to go! I would sack him now. He looks lost and trying to look at the positives in the squad and how hard they are working then goes on to say that he's hoping to keep as many players as possible. Hopeless, incompetent and way out of his depth. The only thing saving him at the moment is that Wallace is even worse.
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Post by Bagheera on Dec 29, 2021 17:00:17 GMT
If this season ends like it's started then panthers have failed in their requirement.. to me Gui gets one more chance to put it right else he has to go! I would sack him now. He looks lost and trying to look at the positives in the squad and how hard they are working then goes on to say that he's hoping to keep as many players as possible. Hopeless, incompetent and way out of his depth. The only thing saving him at the moment is that Wallace is even worse. The budget is having a big impact on receuitment i'm sure so I do think perhaps there is one more chance to be had. On the flip side though there is a point i've made before that sit's squarely with Doucet and Wallace. The recruitment done with that budget is still way wide of the mark. Fair enough it's got to be cheap with the budget, but why 6 cheap clones. Why could no9s money not be spent on the best fighter/power forward that money could buy? He may not be top drawer but I bet itd still get somebody to do a decent job in this league.
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Post by messier1851 on Dec 29, 2021 17:36:54 GMT
The more you look at it, the more you wonder what on earth went on recruitment wise. Where has the money from Perlini leaving gone? If we were supposedly in the running for him he wouldn't have come cheap, he doesn't re-sign but quite late in pre-season and then... nothing!
How can you have 14 import slots available and not sign a tough guy? As Bagheera says, the standard of the league now is such that you wouldn't have to worry about him not being a huge contributor, as long as he acted as a deterrent and could make a nuisance of himself in front of the net that would more than do.
I'd also prefer to see us move away from signing guys who had a passable Canadian junior career and try and use that ice time on developing British talent. I know that a few years back the work permit eligibility changed to make it easier to sign North American players but surely it would be more beneficial in the long term to try to unearth the next David Clarke, because we sure as anything aren't going to be signing him from another EIHL team by the looks of it.
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Post by iginla on Dec 29, 2021 17:44:43 GMT
I would sack him now. He looks lost and trying to look at the positives in the squad and how hard they are working then goes on to say that he's hoping to keep as many players as possible. Hopeless, incompetent and way out of his depth. The only thing saving him at the moment is that Wallace is even worse. The budget is having a big impact on receuitment i'm sure so I do think perhaps there is one more chance to be had. On the flip side though there is a point i've made before that sit's squarely with Doucet and Wallace. The recruitment done with that budget is still way wide of the mark. Fair enough it's got to be cheap with the budget, but why 6 cheap clones. Why could no9s money not be spent on the best fighter/power forward that money could buy? He may not be top drawer but I bet itd still get somebody to do a decent job in this league. But if the budget is the wage cap ie. £12,500 per week and they’ve all spent the same then how come we could all see pre season that there were three rosters which looked well ahead of Panthers and our assumptions to date appear to be correct. That simply suggests that there is bad recruitment from Doucet and Wallace.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Dec 29, 2021 18:25:43 GMT
I would sack him now. He looks lost and trying to look at the positives in the squad and how hard they are working then goes on to say that he's hoping to keep as many players as possible. Hopeless, incompetent and way out of his depth. The only thing saving him at the moment is that Wallace is even worse. The budget is having a big impact on receuitment i'm sure so I do think perhaps there is one more chance to be had. On the flip side though there is a point i've made before that sit's squarely with Doucet and Wallace. The recruitment done with that budget is still way wide of the mark. Fair enough it's got to be cheap with the budget, but why 6 cheap clones. Why could no9s money not be spent on the best fighter/power forward that money could buy? He may not be top drawer but I bet itd still get somebody to do a decent job in this league. No matter what way you cut it the budget was spent incompetently and on top of that, he has stated that there are players that he wants to keep.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2021 18:42:36 GMT
That's the scary bit.. which players does he want to keep ?? Maybe Welsh and the Brits?
It goes without saying the recrui has been a dumpster fire but surely the quaki of player hasn't been on a level with that of Belfast and Sheffield .. quality costs more it's that simple.
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Post by iginla on Dec 29, 2021 19:11:55 GMT
That's the scary bit.. which players does he want to keep ?? Maybe Welsh and the Brits? It goes without saying the recrui has been a dumpster fire but surely the quaki of player hasn't been on a level with that of Belfast and Sheffield .. quality costs more it's that simple. You’d certainly have to think looking at the rosters that either Panthers havn’t even spent up to total wage cap level,Steelers,Giants and Devils have exceeded it or Panthers have recruited very very poorly. It’s got to be one of those three options.
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