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Post by jd on Dec 26, 2021 14:44:24 GMT
I know someone who works in the QMC and 90% of people in with covid are unvaccinated
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bgf
Jade Galbraith
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Post by bgf on Dec 26, 2021 15:00:41 GMT
Don't need to share.. it's for all to see.. a high % of hospitalisations are of the unvaccinated. If it's for all to see it should be easy to share. Very curious to see the numbers. Even just a % of hospital COVID admissions who are also unvaccinated would be great. Official statistics have remained constant with the unvaccinated making 30% or so of hospital admissions - which means they are over represented but not as others will claim, overwhelming the NHS. Be very wary of anyone who makes sweeping statements about how it is there for all to see or they have a friend who works in a hospital - these are not facts but opinion. The unvaccinated are not killing grannies, overwhelming the NHS and we should not treat them as pariahs - their body, their choice and I would quite happily sit next to one.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2021 15:40:36 GMT
If it's for all to see it should be easy to share. Very curious to see the numbers. Even just a % of hospital COVID admissions who are also unvaccinated would be great. Official statistics have remained constant with the unvaccinated making 30% or so of hospital admissions - which means they are over represented but not as others will claim, overwhelming the NHS. Be very wary of anyone who makes sweeping statements about how it is there for all to see or they have a friend who works in a hospital - these are not facts but opinion. The unvaccinated are not killing grannies, overwhelming the NHS and we should not treat them as pariahs - their body, their choice and I would quite happily sit next to one. You can do what to be you want but to me they are still incredibly selfish!
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,447
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Post by iginla on Dec 26, 2021 16:26:15 GMT
Don't need to share.. it's for all to see.. a high % of hospitalisations are of the unvaccinated. If it's for all to see it should be easy to share. Very curious to see the numbers. Even just a % of hospital COVID admissions who are also unvaccinated would be great. According to the BBC news a couple of nights ago it was 90% of Covid hospital admissions who were unvaccinated. That should tell the anti vaxers just how dumb they are.
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Post by raggidy on Dec 26, 2021 16:51:15 GMT
If it's for all to see it should be easy to share. Very curious to see the numbers. Even just a % of hospital COVID admissions who are also unvaccinated would be great. Official statistics have remained constant with the unvaccinated making 30% or so of hospital admissions - which means they are over represented but not as others will claim, overwhelming the NHS. Be very wary of anyone who makes sweeping statements about how it is there for all to see or they have a friend who works in a hospital - these are not facts but opinion. The unvaccinated are not killing grannies, overwhelming the NHS and we should not treat them as pariahs - their body, their choice and I would quite happily sit next to one. Thanks for providing actual numbers, it's not nearly as bas as others have been making out. Funny how the most righteous people don't have the numbers to back them up (that goes got anti vaxxers too). I would agree with you pidge, they are selfish but we live in a free society and that allows people the freedom to be selfish. Not providing health care for those people undermines what the NHS is and what is has been set up to provide. I myself have both doses of the vaccine and am waiting for my booster, buy NHS Scotland keep instantly cancelling my appointments when I try to book online. The healthcare system north of the border is a shambles and has been since before the pandemic.
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Post by bobness on Dec 26, 2021 18:20:57 GMT
We're very much at risk of going off topic, but I heard this analogy the other day and can't get it out of my head.
Do antivaxxers wear seatbelts?
Covid is like being in a car crash. What could you do to protect yourself? Lots of people used to die, then we invented a preventative measure that protected a heck of a lot of people. The seat belt. It was optional, then it was made law. These days, far fewer people die in car crashes, despite ever more cars and higher speeds, as (amongst other things) they are almost all wearing a seat belt. Some still die, yes, but that's because some car crashes are unsurvivable and that's unavoidable. Bad luck is bad luck. If it was unsurvivable with a seatbelt on, odds on it would've been without too. People survive car crashes now who wouldn't have before. People walk away from crashes now that would've killed them without a seat belt on. That's a very good thing for the person concerned and good for the NHS, and society?
Because wearing a seatbelt was made law.
One assumes all these antivaxxers wear a seatbelt when they're in a car? Surely if it was all about free will (their body, their choice), they wouldn't, as they'd trust their diet to protect them, or whatever the anti-vax argument du jour is? Maybe if being vaxxed was made law, they would then do it? Just like seatbelts?
The point is, if the unvaxxed were vaxxed, the number of admissions and people in hospital would be far smaller. It's been recently quoted that certain age groups are 60 times less likely to be admitted to hospital vaxxed vs unvaxxed. It'll be less for others, but it will always be less. It's so needless, IMO. If I were a medical person, dealing with the care of unvaxxed covid patients, I'd be raging around now.
Other opinions are, of course, available.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,447
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Post by iginla on Dec 26, 2021 18:31:11 GMT
Well Panthers better win this game or they’ll be 17 points behind the Steelers with only 4 games in hand and that’ll be another seasons league challenge done and dusted before it really started.
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bgf
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 8
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Post by bgf on Dec 26, 2021 18:32:00 GMT
If it's for all to see it should be easy to share. Very curious to see the numbers. Even just a % of hospital COVID admissions who are also unvaccinated would be great. According to the BBC news a couple of nights ago it was 90% of Covid hospital admissions who were unvaccinated. That should tell the anti vaxers just how dumb they are. That is correct - but these figures were for the first 6 months of the year - when the vast majority of people hadn’t been offered 1 jab let alone 2. Since the summer hospital admissions are around 30% unvaccinated, which as I say is an over representation. It is a dangerous road to go down where we imply that people are less deserving of treatment due to personal choice - should we deny treatment from all Panthers fans who adequately pad out their hockey jerseys because they make poor choices around food and over consumption? Can we all agree that Covid aside can we please just beat the Steelers and give us long suffering Panthers fans some Christmas joy.
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Post by bobness on Dec 26, 2021 18:38:28 GMT
Be very wary of anyone who makes sweeping statements about how it is there for all to see or they have a friend who works in a hospital - these are not facts but opinion. Wise advice, always be diligent in your questioning of "facts". Some are, as you say, opinions dressed as facts which we seem to get a lot of round here sometimes. But what if the friend is a consultant on a covid ward? Or the hospital administrator who deals in those statistics for government reporting? That opinion would carry a lot more weight than if they were a cleaner, for example. It might even be an actual fact. Don't be too quick to dismiss. Has anyone got any reliable stats for the current split of vaccination status for "in hospital" covid patients? The ONS don't seem to publish this?
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,447
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Post by iginla on Dec 26, 2021 18:50:25 GMT
According to the BBC news a couple of nights ago it was 90% of Covid hospital admissions who were unvaccinated. That should tell the anti vaxers just how dumb they are. That is correct - but these figures were for the first 6 months of the year - when the vast majority of people hadn’t been offered 1 jab let alone 2. Since the summer hospital admissions are around 30% unvaccinated, which as I say is an over representation. It is a dangerous road to go down where we imply that people are less deserving of treatment due to personal choice - should we deny treatment from all Panthers fans who adequately pad out their hockey jerseys because they make poor choices around food and over consumption? Can we all agree that Covid aside can we please just beat the Steelers and give us long suffering Panthers fans some Christmas joy. Well I just googled “current percentage of unvaccinated Covid hospital admissions” and it stated in several different articles……that it was 90%. And those articles were all current in the last 3 days.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Dec 26, 2021 18:53:12 GMT
Be very wary of anyone who makes sweeping statements about how it is there for all to see or they have a friend who works in a hospital - these are not facts but opinion. Wise advice, always be diligent in your questioning of "facts". Some are, as you say, opinions dressed as facts which we seem to get a lot of round here sometimes. But what if the friend is a consultant on a covid ward? Or the hospital administrator who deals in those statistics for government reporting? That opinion would carry a lot more weight than if they were a cleaner, for example. It might even be an actual fact. Don't be too quick to dismiss. Has anyone got any reliable stats for the current split of vaccination status for "in hospital" covid patients? The ONS don't seem to publish this? I don’t think we will ever have many facts until several years have past. Too big, too complicated and too much face to lose.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Dec 26, 2021 18:58:04 GMT
That is correct - but these figures were for the first 6 months of the year - when the vast majority of people hadn’t been offered 1 jab let alone 2. Since the summer hospital admissions are around 30% unvaccinated, which as I say is an over representation. It is a dangerous road to go down where we imply that people are less deserving of treatment due to personal choice - should we deny treatment from all Panthers fans who adequately pad out their hockey jerseys because they make poor choices around food and over consumption? Can we all agree that Covid aside can we please just beat the Steelers and give us long suffering Panthers fans some Christmas joy. Well I just googled “current percentage of unvaccinated Covid hospital admissions” and it stated in several different articles……that it was 90%. And those articles were all current in the last 3 days. I had covid for the second time a few weeks back (not the latest version of the virus) and it was a walk in the park compared with the first time. Triple jabbed now and if it was that that made the difference I would be in line for 25 jabs as and when needed. The first time I had covid I was as ill as I’ve ever been and still suffering with long covid now when it comes to stairs or trying to stay awake.
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Post by bobness on Dec 26, 2021 19:08:40 GMT
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,447
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Post by iginla on Dec 26, 2021 19:12:03 GMT
Well I just googled “current percentage of unvaccinated Covid hospital admissions” and it stated in several different articles……that it was 90%. And those articles were all current in the last 3 days. I had covid for the second time a few weeks back (not the latest version of the virus) and it was a walk in the park compared with the first time. Triple jabbed now and if it was that that made the difference I would be in line for 25 jabs as and when needed. The first time I had covid I was as ill as I’ve ever been and still suffering with long covid now when it comes to stairs or trying to stay awake. Blimey mate,you best not venture out to any Panthers games then. You’ll be fast asleep before ten minutes is done. Lol
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Dec 26, 2021 20:29:09 GMT
I had covid for the second time a few weeks back (not the latest version of the virus) and it was a walk in the park compared with the first time. Triple jabbed now and if it was that that made the difference I would be in line for 25 jabs as and when needed. The first time I had covid I was as ill as I’ve ever been and still suffering with long covid now when it comes to stairs or trying to stay awake. Blimey mate,you best not venture out to any Panthers games then. You’ll be fast asleep before ten minutes is done. Lol Very true
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Post by wgray on Dec 26, 2021 20:37:11 GMT
A lot of pressure on this game now, a big performance is required.
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EMB
Randall Weber
Posts: 4,046
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Post by EMB on Dec 26, 2021 21:56:09 GMT
I see we still don’t get to see Brust at our place tomorrow, he’s now tested positive for Covid along with Valdix & Sointu.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,447
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Post by iginla on Dec 26, 2021 22:04:24 GMT
I see we still don’t get to see Brust at our place tomorrow, he’s now tested positive for Covid along with Valdix & Sointu. I wondered why Steelers only had 12 imports tonight but no Brust. So what exactly are EIHL Covid 19 protocol rules, do they have to have a certain number of players test positive before a team get put under the league protocol ?
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EMB
Randall Weber
Posts: 4,046
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Post by EMB on Dec 26, 2021 22:40:19 GMT
Not sure what the rules are, Panthers never mentioned which of our players tested positive but at the beginning there were 8 confirmed cases not sure if any others tested after that .
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Post by jd on Dec 27, 2021 0:40:21 GMT
Be very wary of anyone who makes sweeping statements about how it is there for all to see or they have a friend who works in a hospital - these are not facts but opinion. Wise advice, always be diligent in your questioning of "facts". Some are, as you say, opinions dressed as facts which we seem to get a lot of round here sometimes. But what if the friend is a consultant on a covid ward? Or the hospital administrator who deals in those statistics for government reporting? That opinion would carry a lot more weight than if they were a cleaner, for example. It might even be an actual fact. Don't be too quick to dismiss. Has anyone got any reliable stats for the current split of vaccination status for "in hospital" covid patients? The ONS don't seem to publish this? My friend who is a nurse in A&E and has worked on covid related illnesses for the whole pandemic might actually know what they are talking about. Not a sweeping statement as you suggested bgf.
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Post by jd on Dec 27, 2021 0:41:17 GMT
A lot of pressure on this game now, a big performance is required. Not a chance we will win. We just aren’t good enough. NB needs to get the money out but we know he won’t
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Post by kievthegreat on Dec 27, 2021 8:05:56 GMT
As it is Game day and this is a game day thread, can we focus discussion on the game itself rather than covid statistics and hospitalization rates? There is a thread about the threat covid poses to the season which would be more appropriate for that.
Only relevant covid bit for today seems to be that Valdix has tested positive while Brust and Sointu are unwell. However all Steelers players tested negative on LFT after yesterdays game (why not tested before?).
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Post by blackandgold73 on Dec 27, 2021 8:21:47 GMT
If it's for all to see it should be easy to share. Very curious to see the numbers. Even just a % of hospital COVID admissions who are also unvaccinated would be great. Official statistics have remained constant with the unvaccinated making 30% or so of hospital admissions - which means they are over represented but not as others will claim, overwhelming the NHS. Be very wary of anyone who makes sweeping statements about how it is there for all to see or they have a friend who works in a hospital - these are not facts but opinion. The unvaccinated are not killing grannies, overwhelming the NHS and we should not treat them as pariahs - their body, their choice and I would quite happily sit next to one. You say to be wary of people making sweeping statements based on hearsay but then you quote "official" numbers but ones provide no source. Sadly the one thing all official numbers agree on is that the percentage of people unvaccinated in hospitals has *not remained constant*, a statistically unlikely events in any circumstance. The most recent article I could find that has been peer reviewed (in the British Medical Journal) was published in September and put the % at 84% *but* these numbers are historic and cover a period when many were yet to be vaccinated (up to July). As others have pointed out the numbers have changed and fluctuated over time and 48% crops up a lot for recent periods. www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2306If you want others to question "unsourced" figures you can't then use an unsourced number to back up your own position. The ONS or UKHSA are both sources of trustworthy data on the pandemic but at the very least post a link to your source so people can assess its validity for themselves. Like Bobness did for his numbers from fullfact
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Post by blackandgold73 on Dec 27, 2021 8:27:15 GMT
As it is Game day and this is a game day thread, can we focus discussion on the game itself rather than covid statistics and hospitalization rates? There is a thread about the threat covid poses to the season which would be more appropriate for that. Only relevant covid bit for today seems to be that Valdix has tested positive while Brust and Sointu are unwell. However all Steelers players tested negative on LFT after yesterdays game (why not tested before?). Apologies, posted before seeing your post. Would be interesting to see if they're tested before as well. Like you mention, *if* Steelers are only testing after a game that is protecting their game squad strength and not protecting their opponents. But they may well be treated twice on game days?
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Post by kievthegreat on Dec 27, 2021 8:32:52 GMT
As it is Game day and this is a game day thread, can we focus discussion on the game itself rather than covid statistics and hospitalization rates? There is a thread about the threat covid poses to the season which would be more appropriate for that. Only relevant covid bit for today seems to be that Valdix has tested positive while Brust and Sointu are unwell. However all Steelers players tested negative on LFT after yesterdays game (why not tested before?). Apologies, posted before seeing your post. Would be interesting to see if they're tested before as well. Like you mention, *if* Steelers are only testing after a game that is protecting their game squad strength and not protecting their opponents. But they may well be treated twice on game days? I'll let you off this time. I'll probably move it to a different thread though. With regards to testing, it might be that they test before as well. To me though, testing afterwards seems pointless. Unless you're extremely cynical and would rather find out you can't play afterwards rather than before a game.
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