Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2021 8:45:50 GMT
It's all about power and control mate. I'm sure we were told to take up vaccines a year ago so there would be no need for restrictions!
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
|
Post by iginla on Dec 21, 2021 9:13:13 GMT
Same in the schools. Easiest way ever invented to extend your Christmas holidays if you want to ! Or to make sure you’re not passing it onto others whilst feeling like a sack of poo poo yourself My next door neighbour works in a secondary school office,she told me yesterday that in their school only 53% of pupils attended last week. Now call me cynical,but I simply don’t believe that half the 1100 pupils are truly isolating. Same last year,I had a house built and 3 different sub contractors told me they had claimed the full £7000 self employed hardship payment from the government and yet they worked right through Covid on MY house. People are taking the pisss big time !!!
|
|
|
Post by blackandgold73 on Dec 21, 2021 10:22:57 GMT
It's all about power and control mate. I'm sure we were told to take up vaccines a year ago so there would be no need for restrictions! "...so there would be no need for people to die unecessarily if it could be prevented" In the first six months of 2021 98.8% of people dying of COVID in the uk were unvaccinated. Just 0.5% of deaths were of people double vaccinated and infected 14 days after their second jab, and of those the majority were in very high risk categories. That unvaccinated death rate % number is likely to be the same or higher for the rest of the year they expect. So yes a little power and control over dying. You do realise your wording unfortunately means this post (perhaps accidentally?) feeds in to the narrative of people who worry they shouldn't take the vaccine because it has no benefit and is being imposed on them for nefarious reasons? www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58545548
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2021 11:05:55 GMT
It's all about power and control mate. I'm sure we were told to take up vaccines a year ago so there would be no need for restrictions! "...so there would be no need for people to die unecessarily if it could be prevented" In the first six months of 2021 98.8% of people dying of COVID in the uk were unvaccinated. Just 0.5% of deaths were of people double vaccinated and infected 14 days after their second jab, and of those the majority were in very high risk categories. That unvaccinated death rate % number is likely to be the same or higher for the rest of the year they expect. So yes a little power and control over dying. You do realise your wording unfortunately means this post (perhaps accidentally?) feeds in to the narrative of people who worry they shouldn't take the vaccine because it has no benefit and is being imposed on them for nefarious reasons? www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58545548 I've been triple jabbed so wind your neck in! Can you tell me how many are IN HOSPITAL through this new varient and how many have LOST THEIR LIVES through it? You do realise people won't comply with any future Draconian restrictions now ?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2021 11:08:32 GMT
Or to make sure you’re not passing it onto others whilst feeling like a sack of poo poo yourself My next door neighbour works in a secondary school office,she told me yesterday that in their school only 53% of pupils attended last week. Now call me cynical,but I simply don’t believe that half the 1100 pupils are truly isolating. Same last year,I had a house built and 3 different sub contractors told me they had claimed the full £7000 self employed hardship payment from the government and yet they worked right through Covid on MY house. People are taking the pisss big time !!! Oh that's guaranteed mate if you take time off work Covid related you have to get paid.. since day 1 people have been taking the pisss at my company and still are .
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2021 11:13:52 GMT
You will never get 100% of the population vaxxed anyway so will always get infection spreads and people in hospital.
People at my work are anti Vax and have still had Covid!
|
|
Yotes
Forum Admin
Posts: 16,622
|
Post by Yotes on Dec 21, 2021 11:26:49 GMT
In Wales Covid hospital admissions are at an average of 23 a day, down from 25 two weeks ago and at they’re at their lowest since 24th August. Number of people in critical care beds down at 33, lowest since 23rd August. Hospital numbers at their lowest level in 3 months. What is going on? www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52380643.ampI suppose the problem is you have to act before it goes wrong, or it's already too late. With this version seemingly more contagious, even if it sends proportionately fewer people to hospital, that could still be enough to clog the system up. Not to mention hospital staff being taken out of action too. No one wants to see people sat in ambulances in the carpark because there's no room, again. Especially if one of those people matters to you. Whether it was required or not will become apparent in the next week or so. Hospital numbers seem to be holding ok at the moment from what I can see, so hopefully this is just a bit of a pain for Cardiff and not a long lasting measure.
|
|
|
Post by blackandgold73 on Dec 21, 2021 11:45:21 GMT
"...so there would be no need for people to die unecessarily if it could be prevented" In the first six months of 2021 98.8% of people dying of COVID in the uk were unvaccinated. Just 0.5% of deaths were of people double vaccinated and infected 14 days after their second jab, and of those the majority were in very high risk categories. That unvaccinated death rate % number is likely to be the same or higher for the rest of the year they expect. So yes a little power and control over dying. You do realise your wording unfortunately means this post (perhaps accidentally?) feeds in to the narrative of people who worry they shouldn't take the vaccine because it has no benefit and is being imposed on them for nefarious reasons? www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58545548 I've been triple jabbed so wind your neck in! Can you tell me how many are IN HOSPITAL through this new varient and how many have LOST THEIR LIVES through it? You do realise people won't comply with any future Draconian restrictions now ? I know from your previous posts your are Pidge. I was never suggesting you weren't. I was merely pointing out that the wording of your post might, as I pointed out, "perhaps accidentally" feed into the narrative of people that were feeling reluctant to get jabbed as I was pretty confident that wasn't what you wanted or intended. As of 2 days ago (most recent data) 129 confirmed hospital admissions through an A+E route so far and 14 deaths, but given the time lag between infection and hospitalisation that will go up. This is the totals for day 22 since first UK case. 45,146 confirmed cases on the 19th and 124,954 cases where it's distinctive features have ruled out other variants but. Given that only a fraction of tests can even be genetic tested these figures are the tip of the iceberg. Bear in mind that Delta is still circulating and the reality as the scientists point out is that we have two pandemics circulating with distinct and different infection profiles. As with Delta Omicron has taken hold in London and the South first but outside that region the East Midlands has the second highest incidence rate of Omicron and one of the quickest doubling rates at 1.96 days. At day 24 now I think we can agree it's acceleration is beyond Delta and now we're waiting sadly to see it's death rate. All figures taken from UK Health Security Agency which are freely available and updated daily. As for whether people will accept "Draconian measures" again that undermining has to be laid firmly at the behaviour and feet of our elected leaders who have undermined the science with their own entitled behaviour and poor examples. What the future holds we don't know but those are the numbers you requested. But bear in mind that's day 22 since detection. You'd have to compare therefore with similar day of the first outbreak
|
|
|
Post by blackandgold73 on Dec 21, 2021 11:48:20 GMT
You will never get 100% of the population vaxxed anyway so will always get infection spreads and people in hospital. People at my work are anti Vax and have still had Covid! Given that 78% of people dying are unvaccinated that's sadly par for the course and far from surprising alas ~~~~~ Post edited and corrected to reflect new data. % corrected down from 98.8 in June to 78% as of October data, the most recent available. Apologies for not double checking earlier
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2021 12:00:00 GMT
I've been triple jabbed so wind your neck in! Can you tell me how many are IN HOSPITAL through this new varient and how many have LOST THEIR LIVES through it? You do realise people won't comply with any future Draconian restrictions now ? I know from your previous posts your are Pidge. I was never suggesting you weren't. I was merely pointing out that the wording of your post might, as I pointed out, "perhaps accidentally" feed into the narrative of people that were feeling reluctant to get jabbed as I was pretty confident that wasn't what you wanted or intended. As of 2 days ago (most recent data) 129 confirmed hospital admissions through an A+E route so far and 14 deaths, but given the time lag between infection and hospitalisation that will go up. This is the totals for day 22 since first UK case. 45,146 confirmed cases on the 19th and 124,954 cases where it's distinctive features have ruled out other variants but. Given that only a fraction of tests can even be genetic tested these figures are the tip of the iceberg. Bear in mind that Delta is still circulating and the reality as the scientists point out is that we have two pandemics circulating with distinct and different infection profiles. As with Delta Omicron has taken hold in London and the South first but outside that region the East Midlands has the second highest incidence rate of Omicron and one of the quickest doubling rates at 1.96 days. At day 24 now I think we can agree it's acceleration is beyond Delta and now we're waiting sadly to see it's death rate. All figures taken from UK Health Security Agency which are freely available and updated daily. As for whether people will accept "Draconian measures" again that undermining has to be laid firmly at the behaviour and feet of our elected leaders who have undermined the science with their own entitled behaviour and poor examples. What the future holds we don't know but those are the numbers you requested. But bear in mind that's day 22 since detection. You'd have to compare therefore with similar day of the first outbreak But evidence which is behind relayed from South Africa indicates it's less severe than delta? We are in a far better position than we were 12 months ago.. problem is the scientists and doctors in this country always look at worse case scenario
|
|
|
Post by blackandgold73 on Dec 21, 2021 12:22:32 GMT
I know from your previous posts your are Pidge. I was never suggesting you weren't. I was merely pointing out that the wording of your post might, as I pointed out, "perhaps accidentally" feed into the narrative of people that were feeling reluctant to get jabbed as I was pretty confident that wasn't what you wanted or intended. As of 2 days ago (most recent data) 129 confirmed hospital admissions through an A+E route so far and 14 deaths, but given the time lag between infection and hospitalisation that will go up. This is the totals for day 22 since first UK case. 45,146 confirmed cases on the 19th and 124,954 cases where it's distinctive features have ruled out other variants but. Given that only a fraction of tests can even be genetic tested these figures are the tip of the iceberg. Bear in mind that Delta is still circulating and the reality as the scientists point out is that we have two pandemics circulating with distinct and different infection profiles. As with Delta Omicron has taken hold in London and the South first but outside that region the East Midlands has the second highest incidence rate of Omicron and one of the quickest doubling rates at 1.96 days. At day 24 now I think we can agree it's acceleration is beyond Delta and now we're waiting sadly to see it's death rate. All figures taken from UK Health Security Agency which are freely available and updated daily. As for whether people will accept "Draconian measures" again that undermining has to be laid firmly at the behaviour and feet of our elected leaders who have undermined the science with their own entitled behaviour and poor examples. What the future holds we don't know but those are the numbers you requested. But bear in mind that's day 22 since detection. You'd have to compare therefore with similar day of the first outbreak But evidence which is behind relayed from South Africa indicates it's less severe than delta? We are in a far better position than we were 12 months ago.. problem is the scientists and doctors in this country always look at worse case scenario Sadly the anecdotal evidence of one South African doctor on the BBC has been amplified. Even that doctor said it was too soon to tell definitively. The evidence from the most recent studies have concluded that *Omicron is not less severe than Delta* And also that it is much better at reinfection after vaccination or prior infection (hence the sudden push for boosters). So Omicron is 5.4 times as likely to reinfect than Delta and no less severe in the current studies. It is the higher proportion of triple jabbed that is helping so far. But it's effects are comparable to Delta in the studies so far. The relevant studies include one at Imperial college: "Researchers at Imperial College London compared 11,329 people with confirmed or likely Omicron infections with nearly 200,000 people infected with other variants. So far, according to a report issued ahead of peer review and updated on Monday, they see "no evidence of Omicron having lower severity than Delta, judged by either the proportion of people testing positive who report symptoms, or by the proportion of cases seeking hospital care after infection." But the *one* thing that might get some reluctant guys to get vaccinated.... Sperm count can take 3 months or more to recover after COVID. Do you think anyone told Boris? "two months after recovery, sperm motility was impaired in 28% and sperm counts were low in 6%. The severity of COVID-19 infection was not correlated with sperm characteristics." www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/omicron-infections-appear-no-less-severe-than-delta-covid-19-lowers-sperm-count-2021-12-20/
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
|
Post by iginla on Dec 21, 2021 12:55:45 GMT
My next door neighbour works in a secondary school office,she told me yesterday that in their school only 53% of pupils attended last week. Now call me cynical,but I simply don’t believe that half the 1100 pupils are truly isolating. Same last year,I had a house built and 3 different sub contractors told me they had claimed the full £7000 self employed hardship payment from the government and yet they worked right through Covid on MY house. People are taking the pisss big time !!! Oh that's guaranteed mate if you take time off work Covid related you have to get paid.. since day 1 people have been taking the pisss at my company and still are . Yep if they weren’t getting paid they’d soon be back at work that’s for sure ! As somebody who lives with a daughter who works in a doctors surgery and a son in law who’s a policeman, neither of whom have had a single day off since Covid started it makes my blood boil to see and hear of people taking the pisss !
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
|
Post by iginla on Dec 21, 2021 13:00:21 GMT
You will never get 100% of the population vaxxed anyway so will always get infection spreads and people in hospital. People at my work are anti Vax and have still had Covid! Given that 98.8% of people dying are unvaccinated that's sadly par for the course and far from surprising alas Indeed,but for anybody who dies because they CHOSE to be unvaccinated,the blunt truth is that it was their own stupid fault !
|
|
|
Post by sevcik on Dec 21, 2021 14:46:45 GMT
|
|
|
Post by The Flying Shirt on Dec 21, 2021 15:09:41 GMT
I would imagine that enough people would want to stay away for safety reasons anyway
|
|
bgf
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 8
|
Post by bgf on Dec 21, 2021 15:11:47 GMT
It's all about power and control mate. I'm sure we were told to take up vaccines a year ago so there would be no need for restrictions! "...so there would be no need for people to die unecessarily if it could be prevented" In the first six months of 2021 98.8% of people dying of COVID in the uk were unvaccinated. Just 0.5% of deaths were of people double vaccinated and infected 14 days after their second jab, and of those the majority were in very high risk categories. That unvaccinated death rate % number is likely to be the same or higher for the rest of the year they expect. So yes a little power and control over dying. You do realise your wording unfortunately means this post (perhaps accidentally?) feeds in to the narrative of people who worry they shouldn't take the vaccine because it has no benefit and is being imposed on them for nefarious reasons? www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58545548
|
|
bgf
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 8
|
Post by bgf on Dec 21, 2021 15:18:58 GMT
"...so there would be no need for people to die unecessarily if it could be prevented" In the first six months of 2021 98.8% of people dying of COVID in the uk were unvaccinated. Just 0.5% of deaths were of people double vaccinated and infected 14 days after their second jab, and of those the majority were in very high risk categories. That unvaccinated death rate % number is likely to be the same or higher for the rest of the year they expect. So yes a little power and control over dying. You do realise your wording unfortunately means this post (perhaps accidentally?) feeds in to the narrative of people who worry they shouldn't take the vaccine because it has no benefit and is being imposed on them for nefarious reasons? www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58545548 Wow what a hugely misleading use of statistics - the vast majority of covid deaths in the first 6 months of the year were before people had the opportunity to be vaccinated once, let alone twice. The debate around vaccines can be very polarizing and ‘misinformation’ from both sides is hugely unhelpful. I am sure you haven’t meant to mislead but there really does need to be some context. The current and future death rate will not be made up of 98% unvaccinated.
|
|
|
Post by blackandgold73 on Dec 21, 2021 15:45:33 GMT
Wow what a hugely misleading use of statistics - the vast majority of covid deaths in the first 6 months of the year were before people had the opportunity to be vaccinated once, let alone twice. The debate around vaccines can be very polarizing and ‘misinformation’ from both sides is hugely unhelpful. I am sure you haven’t meant to mislead but there really does need to be some context. The current and future death rate will not be made up of 98% unvaccinated. You are correct I had no intention of misleading anyone and you are right to bring up the vaccination status availability. I should have flagged that up myself so thank you for doing so. I should also have flagged up improved treatment options found since then as well on reflection. I was going from the last projections I read during September, and recent admission data but have just double-checked with the ONS latest figures issued in October and by then unvaccinated deaths made up 78.2% of deaths for the previous 10 months of this year. So your point is indeed valid and I thank you for raising it. I should have checked the current data and projections so I've learnt something new due to your comment. And for that you have my thanks. The sad fact is that with the unvaccinated still making up over 90% of hospital admissions the proportion of the sickest is hovering at 90% unvaccinated but with the new treatments their survival outcomes have improved. But you are right to flag up that over time that proportion will fluctuate and fall or rise. My main hope for everyone's sake is that the overall death number rate fall whatever people's vaccination status. Thanks again for your input. I do appreciate it!
|
|
|
Post by humbucker on Dec 21, 2021 15:50:52 GMT
It would appear that few have noted the demographic differences between South Africa and other parts of the world. The population in the uk for instance tend to be somewhat older compared to SA. This is definitely not like for like when comparisons are made regarding the seriousness of infections between various populations as I can see. I do realise that in the main, as with others, I come at this from a standpoint bordering on ignorance.
|
|
|
Post by kievthegreat on Dec 21, 2021 15:51:30 GMT
Given that 98.8% of people dying are unvaccinated that's sadly par for the course and far from surprising alas Indeed,but for anybody who dies because they CHOSE to be unvaccinated,the blunt truth is that it was their own stupid fault ! While if people die because they forego vaccination, they are doing so as a result of their own decision. There still remains the fact that some people cannot be vaccinated and they are at elevated risk because of that selfishness/stupidity. Plus all the extra stress on the NHS that needs extra beds to cope with the resulting increase in hospitalizations, even when people recover. Hopefully the promising signs that this new variant is milder do bear out. There is evidence of this in SA and some coming from the UK, but there is still a short term issue that if hospitalizations increase significantly, then you could overload the NHS' capacity to deal with it.
|
|
|
Post by blackandgold73 on Dec 21, 2021 16:07:32 GMT
It would appear that few have noted the demographic differences between South Africa and other parts of the world. The population in the uk for instance tend to be somewhat older compared to SA. This is definitely not like for like when comparisons are made regarding the seriousness of infections between various populations as I can see. I do realise that in the main, as with others, I come at this from a standpoint bordering on ignorance. This is a very good point and the reason I only ever feel it safe to refer to direct UK to UK comparisons of strains like the imperial College study. We can only draw true conclusions safely within the same respective populations. Though other populations can give early warning indicators So your point that Omicron might effect our population worse or better than its origin population is very important. We can only really safely draw variant strain conclusions within our own respective demographics. Which is one of the reasons why national decisions often have to be taken so quickly or even in advance. And is one of many reasons why they sometimes will vary regionally within the world. We only truly find out in real time when it's already a problem. And that's another problem in itself
|
|
|
Post by nightwish on Dec 21, 2021 16:23:52 GMT
It's all about power and control mate. I'm sure we were told to take up vaccines a year ago so there would be no need for restrictions! In all fairness if it wasnt for this particular variant I dont think there would be this situation - there are quite a significant number of variants identified many of which are not very pathogenic - sadly the omicron one is ☹️
|
|
|
Post by kievthegreat on Dec 21, 2021 16:31:59 GMT
It would appear that few have noted the demographic differences between South Africa and other parts of the world. The population in the uk for instance tend to be somewhat older compared to SA. This is definitely not like for like when comparisons are made regarding the seriousness of infections between various populations as I can see. I do realise that in the main, as with others, I come at this from a standpoint bordering on ignorance. TBF, this is why scientists, statisticians, advisors, etc... earn their pay. Taking data from one scenario and attempting to predict what will happen here. Demographic differences are also compounded by vaccination rates and many other factors. It's why any scientist who has offered suggestion that Omicron could be milder tempers that its early signs and that it's not a straightforward good/bad scenario.
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
|
Post by iginla on Dec 27, 2021 11:34:00 GMT
So does anybody know exactly what the rules are for this “EIHL Covid 19 protocol” then ? Other teams have been placed in it, the Steelers have three players tested as positive and yet their team is still playing.
|
|
Jord v4
Ken Westman
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 2,714
|
Post by Jord v4 on Dec 27, 2021 11:35:11 GMT
So does anybody know exactly what the rules are for this “EIHL Covid 19 protocol” then ? Other teams have been placed in it, the Steelers have three players tested as positive and yet their team is still playing. The 'people who need to know' know, yes. Other who don't need to know probably don't know.
|
|