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Post by howeaboutthat on Jan 29, 2011 18:14:14 GMT
Clarke, Lacho, Myers, Meyers for sure, especially if the rumoured import decrease happens. I'd have Lacho, Myers, Meyers and Lee but Clarke, although still producing many goals (even with seemingly only one in ten shots being on target) is just a little too idle for me. When the puck gets turned over he is more likely to skate for the bench than bother trying to get back and defend and goal scoring abilities aside I'm not sure the Panthers should be carrying 'one-way' forwards. If you want a team that plays exciting, attacking hockey then those players need to have two-way ability because invariably such aggressive play leaves the team open to breaks on the turn over and that is not a good time to have non-defence minded individuals skating towards the bench for a change. Yes, at times he is fantastic to watch but I can't see him ever changing his ways and becoming a two-way player and the nature of hockey has changed to the point where such single role players are a dying breed.
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Post by pantherinmanc on Jan 29, 2011 18:14:58 GMT
K-wall, all the brits, Lepine and maybe Bellamy and Ryan. I'd be wary of retaining too many simply because of the need for a clean slate.
Suppose it depends on who GM, sorry, the new coach thinks fits with what he wants to build.
I suppose someone could ask Rick what he's planning?
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Post by pantherdman on Jan 29, 2011 18:18:52 GMT
If Ricks got anything about him he'll be thinking 'F this.'
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Post by icebandit on Jan 29, 2011 19:11:45 GMT
What about Danny Meyers for a future coach, with some training ?
He wouldn't be wanting to leave for his native shores after a few years too.
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Jay
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Post by Jay on Jan 29, 2011 19:28:31 GMT
What about Danny Meyers for a future coach, with some training ? He wouldn't be wanting to leave for his native shores after a few years too. We need a new coach now, not in the future though.
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Post by pantherinmanc on Jan 29, 2011 19:43:13 GMT
If Ricks got anything about him he'll be thinking 'F this.' Selfishly, I hope so. However I think our 'new' head coach is already on the bench.
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Post by Spoonerdudes on Jan 29, 2011 20:45:59 GMT
If Ricks got anything about him he'll be thinking 'F this.' Selfishly, I hope so. However I think our 'new' head coach is already on the bench. Adam ?.... ;D
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Post by NickThePanther44 on Jan 29, 2011 20:53:33 GMT
Clarke, Lacho, Myers, Meyers for sure, especially if the rumoured import decrease happens. I'd have Lacho, Myers, Meyers and Lee but Clarke, although still producing many goals (even with seemingly only one in ten shots being on target) is just a little too idle for me. When the puck gets turned over he is more likely to skate for the bench than bother trying to get back and defend and goal scoring abilities aside I'm not sure the Panthers should be carrying 'one-way' forwards. If you want a team that plays exciting, attacking hockey then those players need to have two-way ability because invariably such aggressive play leaves the team open to breaks on the turn over and that is not a good time to have non-defence minded individuals skating towards the bench for a change. Yes, at times he is fantastic to watch but I can't see him ever changing his ways and becoming a two-way player and the nature of hockey has changed to the point where such single role players are a dying breed. I agree James/ I'd like to see us replace Clarke with Farmer, he has really impressed me this season. Then spend the extra dough on the imports.
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Jan 29, 2011 21:35:13 GMT
Some of you people make me laugh...
No player is perfect, certainly not David Clarke - not by a long chalk - but please... on the Jekyll-and-Hyde team that we've got this season, he's still managed to get up to being the second-highest goalscorer in the entire league!If that's not worth keeping around - what is?
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Ghost
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Post by Ghost on Jan 29, 2011 21:36:39 GMT
Agree shaggy. I remember the thread Clarke bashing, ridiculous.
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Post by howeaboutthat on Jan 29, 2011 21:59:19 GMT
.........he's still managed to get up to being the second-highest goalscorer in the entire league!If that's not worth keeping around - what is? No ones denying he can score but the modern game is more than forwards score/d-men defend. Oh for some +/- stats on Mr Clarke. Thats said though they probably wouldn't be that bad, because he is usually sat on the bench before the opposition get that breakaway goal resulting from yet another over committed team getting turned-over.
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Ghost
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Post by Ghost on Jan 29, 2011 22:01:21 GMT
But as a Brit Kron, it can't get too much better in this league?
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Post by howeaboutthat on Jan 29, 2011 22:07:43 GMT
But as a Brit Kron, it can't get too much better in this league? And that is the problem with Brit hockey. Some folk are willing to accept negatives in a player (such as being lazy) because he can score but more importantly, because he is a Brit. To think, some folk are even supporting the idea of cutting the import limit to get more Brits in the game. Great, then those who are the better Brits will have to try even less but still get paid a decent wage because who else will replace them? Some barely above rec hockey player from the ENL/EPL?
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Ghost
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Post by Ghost on Jan 29, 2011 22:10:41 GMT
My point is not that it's ok for him to have faults, as a pose to imports, my point is that there aren't too many better options out there, who else is there at that level? Shields, tait (shudders) then I'm struggling.
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Jan 29, 2011 22:12:54 GMT
But as a Brit Kron, it can't get too much better in this league? And that is the problem with Brit hockey. Some folk are willing to accept negatives in a player (such as being lazy) because he can score but more importantly, because he is a Brit. Like who? I think you're letting your prejudices colour your thinking there. And people seem to be willing to accept negatives in imports if it suits their purposes (like, for example, he's handy with his fists). Cuts both ways. From my POV, we need to invest a damned sight more into British player development and drastically increase the supply of better British players before we consider increasing demand for them (by dropping the import limit - below 10, anyway). As I've said over and over again.
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Post by sambo79 on Jan 29, 2011 23:35:50 GMT
Any EIHL team would snap your arm off to sign Clarke. So anyone on here who thinks otherwise is living in cloud cuckoo land.
Not EVERY player has to be a Marc Levers. Not every player will be a Matthew Myers. But without question, you absolutely need a David Clarke in your team.
Get over it Kronwalled. You're talking rubbish.
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Post by NickThePanther44 on Jan 30, 2011 0:08:32 GMT
Any EIHL team would snap your arm off to sign Clarke. So anyone on here who thinks otherwise is living in cloud cuckoo land. Not EVERY player has to be a Marc Levers. Not every player will be a Matthew Myers. But without question, you absolutely need a David Clarke in your team. Get over it Kronwalled. You're talking rubbish. Why is he talking rubbish? I happen to completely agree with him. Nobody is saying that he isn't a decent player or that he needs to be "perfect". To suggest just because somebody doesn't rate him is talking rubbish is a load of crap. Like I've said above I'd rather have a younger Brit like Farmer who plays the agitator role, gets his hands dirty, puts up a decent amount of points and would cost much much less. Then spend the extra on an import who actually has a bit of accuracy to their shot. The plexi behind the nets would give a sigh of relief that's for sure.
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Ghost
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Post by Ghost on Jan 30, 2011 0:10:56 GMT
Thats alot of goals your giving up Bramley, our PP stats would look like a horror show without Clarke.
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Post by NickThePanther44 on Jan 30, 2011 0:12:22 GMT
And that is the problem with Brit hockey. Some folk are willing to accept negatives in a player (such as being lazy) because he can score but more importantly, because he is a Brit. Like who? I think you're letting your prejudices colour your thinking there. And people seem to be willing to accept negatives in imports if it suits their purposes (like, for example, he's handy with his fists). Cuts both ways. Oh come off it Shaggy, you know full well the Brits are considerably more immune to criticism than any import. A couple of seasons ago Meyer's was in absolutely awful form, were he to hold anything other than a British passport he would of been gone and talked about as one of the worst d-men in recent times.
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Post by NickThePanther44 on Jan 30, 2011 0:14:39 GMT
Thats alot of goals your giving up Bramley, our PP stats would look like a horror show without Clarke. Yes it is, but then you'd expect a lot of goals from potentially our top earner. I'm not going to pretend I'm privvy to the Panthers finances but I'm guessing you could get a bloody good import in for the money were paying Clarke. I'm not saying I don't rate him, all I'm saying is he'd be much more replacebale than say Matt Myers for example.
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Ghost
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Post by Ghost on Jan 30, 2011 0:28:11 GMT
I do see where your coming from, but who says the money Spent on a new import would bring in a better player than Clarke? This is where you put your trust in GM and CN, I wouldn't.. We have to fill a quota of Brits, why not have the 2nd leading goalscorer in the league as one? You could say it the opposite way to how you put it, by saying you'd expect that kind of player to earn top drawer money.
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Post by NickThePanther44 on Jan 30, 2011 0:36:09 GMT
Yeah ok fair enough. What does Clarke do apart from put pucks in the net though? You compare him to say McAslan who imo had much much more to his game and I'd be surprised if we were paying him any more than Clarke due to poor Mac not having the Brit bonus on his pay cheque.
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Post by dodit on Jan 30, 2011 2:07:16 GMT
I'm waiting for someone to say that Clarke and McAslan are the same type of player because Macca was mocked for being totally lazy time after time.
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Post by Dan on Jan 30, 2011 3:57:03 GMT
Yeah ok fair enough. What does Clarke do apart from put pucks in the net though? You compare him to say McAslan who imo had much much more to his game and I'd be surprised if we were paying him any more than Clarke due to poor Mac not having the Brit bonus on his pay cheque. The benefits of Clarke for me are namely that he's the second top goalscorer in the entire league (34 in only 44 games) and doing this without even taking up an import slot. What more do you want mate? There's no wage cap any more so any coach in this league would be mad for not wanting him. Mental.
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Post by Shaggy on Jan 30, 2011 8:00:41 GMT
Like who? I think you're letting your prejudices colour your thinking there. And people seem to be willing to accept negatives in imports if it suits their purposes (like, for example, he's handy with his fists). Cuts both ways. Oh come off it Shaggy, you know full well the Brits are considerably more immune to criticism than any import. A couple of seasons ago Meyer's was in absolutely awful form, were he to hold anything other than a British passport he would of been gone and talked about as one of the worst d-men in recent times. That probably would have happened, yes... and it would have been a mistake. Look at him now... he's changed his game, become a much more stay-at-home D-man, he's become a true leader (everyone commented on the difference in the team without him)... he's become what we need. Which wouldn't have happened (for us, anyway) if the knee-jerk "this player isn't 100%, get rid of him" types had got their way. We need to take a bit of a longer view, I think. We make the same mistakes with imports as well... only they get less leeway than Brits, I'll grant you. Look at Cameron Mann last year... mocked for the first half of the season, damn near worshipped near the end of it. Look at K-Wall this season... so many people saying "get rid" at the start of the season - how many are saying that now? And several others over the years. BTW, for the "get rid of Clarke" types who are complaining about his goals-to-shots ratio... who the hell cares? It's a flaw in his game, definitely - but everyone has flaws. That's just being realistic. And the simple fact of the matter is - he scores lots and lots of goals... this season he's doing it more than any other player on this team (34 so far, with the nearest being DAB on 23) and more than every import in the league bar one. Clarke scores goals. Goals win games. Therefore Clarke is a major factor towards winning games. If we think we're badly off as we are... imagine how badly off we'd be without him. Even if we had another high-scoring Brit instead of him (assuming there were any available) - how much worse off would we be? So many people have said they'd prefer Colin Shields to Clarke. Shields is currently on 12 goals for the season - that's it. The second-highest-scoring Brit is currently Robert Dowd with 21... how many more games would we have lost without those extra 13 goals Clarke has scored? Be realistic, people... And a lot of these 'lazy' accusations are a load of rubbish as well IMHO. Not disagreeing on the slow skate back to the bench for line changes, that always annoys me... but Clarke's hardly the only culprit there - at least half the team are guilty of that, and others have been so in previous years (McAslan for one). But apart from that... no, I completely disagree - he's not lazy. The same was said by some of Jimmy Paek... how ridiculous was that?
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