Mythosman
Matt Myers
Age is a big price to pay for maturity!
Posts: 1,661
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Post by Mythosman on Nov 5, 2006 13:14:48 GMT
Well, just over 2 months into a season that promised so much, and Coach Ellis has decided to take stock of where his team is going wrong, in order to put it back on track and salvage something from the rollercoaster ride of the first 2 months. Early on, we had the benefit of greater fitness levels over other squads, but as the season has got into full swing, others have caught up with and passed us on that front – even the Steelers, with just 12 skaters last night! My own thoughts concur with the majority of other posters on The Cage – that Neilson and Stevens have unfortunately failed to live up to their pre-season billing, and have to be replaced as a matter of priority. If the majority of fans with any hockey knowledge can recognise what the problem is, I would hope that the Coach is on the same wavelength! Personally, I am not unhappy with Lindsay, as I believe he is a solid shot-stopper, who just gets on with his job without the flambuoyancy/eccentricity that perhaps Panthers fans have become accustomed to with previous netties. Given the benefit of hindsight, Ellis must be kicking himself for dismissing Dan Tessier’s availability to return to Nottingham out of hand. I can fully understand his reasoning – not wanting a player back who had no qualms about walking out to take a better offer in Switzerland. But Tessier has been happy to tie himself to a 2 year contract in Sheffield, and has come back to haunt us big time, just as many said he would. In retrospect, perhaps just having a dialogue with Tessier and/or his agent would have provided the reassurances that Ellis would have needed to offer a 2 year contract to a player proven to be a class act at Elite League level. What we could be achieving with his face-off; playmaking and scoring abilities now is anybody’s guess, but I certainly can’t see us being any worse off than we are currently! Our esteemed owner only appears to take an interest in the Panthers when we start losing, and it was no surprise to see him circling the Arena last night – I’m sure the loss of an extra pay day of a Challenge Cup Semi-Final game has done little to improve his humour. Supposedly, he met with Coach Ellis after the game – I wish I could have been a fly on the wall at that one! Changing imports is a costly business, with flights and ITC cards, but let’s hope that Mr Black has had the sense to give Ellis the green light for changes. Let’s also hope that Ellis takes some decisive action this week to stop the rot.
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5+game
Terry Kurtenbach
Posts: 2,974
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Post by 5+game on Nov 5, 2006 13:37:55 GMT
hear a rumour last night that there was a canadian arrived at the arena with his bags supposedly had signed for the panthers and went by the name of sean but heard nothing to back this up
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Shorty
Paul Adey
Still here for Private Messages
Posts: 6,636
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Post by Shorty on Nov 5, 2006 13:55:59 GMT
Perhaps its also time for us to adopt West Hams theme song:
I'm forever blowing bubbles, Pretty bubbles in the air, They fly so high, nearly reach the sky, Then like my dreams they fade and die. Fortune's always hiding, I've looked everywhere, I'm forever blowing bubbles, Pretty bubbles in the air.
It is probably the most apt song for us.
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Post by NickThePanther44 on Nov 5, 2006 14:09:08 GMT
so you'd rather have Tessier than McAslan? because id rather have Mcaslan as hes just as good imo but is big enough to look after himself and the budget sure as hell cant hold both.
it wasnt just fitness that got us such a good start it was the belief they had in themselves, that was shattered stamped on and cut into little tiny pieces in the CC and has now snow balled following the losses in the league.
personally i dont want any changes
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Mythosman
Matt Myers
Age is a big price to pay for maturity!
Posts: 1,661
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Post by Mythosman on Nov 5, 2006 14:19:21 GMT
so you'd rather have Tessier than McAslan? because id rather have Mcaslan as hes just as good imo but is big enough to look after himself and the budget sure as hell cant hold both. it wasnt just fitness that got us such a good start it was the belief they had in themselves, that was shattered stamped on and cut into little tiny pieces in the CC and has now snow balled following the losses in the league. personally i dont want any changes No Nick - I'd rather have Tessier than Stevens! McAslan is a class player, and I wouldn't want to change him for anyone, unless his injury doesn't heal. I don't quite understand why you don't want any changes? Do you think Neilson will suddenly get quicker, or improve his passing out of defence? Are you happy for the snowball to carry on speeding downhill?
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Post by NickThePanther44 on Nov 5, 2006 14:34:45 GMT
i totally understand what your saying fella dont get me wrong.
Neillson not long ago was an ECHL all star and i know from playing that sometimes you and your teammates go through bad patches, the fact is hes a proven good player and yes we could get rid of him and get someone who lets face it if hes unsigned isnt going to be great or we could have a little patience, hes got 14 points right? thats twelve more than Emersic.
im guessing the only person on our roster on anywhere near Tessiers wage is McAslan so wanting to swap Stevens for someone of Tessiers calibre is unrealistic, again id choose to be patient with Stevens as i can see the effort is there so along with the odd lucky bounce his season could right back on track in two or three games easy.
the snowball reference was to confidence my friend, one win and that snowball will hopefully hit a tree and behave itself if you get my drift.
thanks Mythosman for being civil in your opinion and not biting my head off like a few people are prone too.
Nick
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EMB
Randall Weber
Posts: 4,046
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Post by EMB on Nov 5, 2006 15:33:27 GMT
[quote author=mythosman board=Hockey thread=1162732488 post=1162732488 Our esteemed owner only appears to take an interest in the Panthers when we start losing, and it was no surprise to see him circling the Arena last night – I’m sure the loss of an extra pay day of a Challenge Cup Semi-Final game has done little to improve his humour. Supposedly, he met with Coach Ellis after the game – I wish I could have been a fly on the wall at that one! [/quote] You are correct there, Mr Ellis did appear at about 11.10 last night and had obviously seen Mr Black who pointed out to him how many thousands of pounds he had just lost him. Typical. The poor guy look well choked up.
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Mythosman
Matt Myers
Age is a big price to pay for maturity!
Posts: 1,661
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Post by Mythosman on Nov 5, 2006 16:41:25 GMT
i totally understand what your saying fella dont get me wrong. Neillson not long ago was an ECHL all star and i know from playing that sometimes you and your teammates go through bad patches, the fact is hes a proven good player and yes we could get rid of him and get someone who lets face it if hes unsigned isnt going to be great or we could have a little patience, hes got 14 points right? thats twelve more than Emersic. im guessing the only person on our roster on anywhere near Tessiers wage is McAslan so wanting to swap Stevens for someone of Tessiers calibre is unrealistic, again id choose to be patient with Stevens as i can see the effort is there so along with the odd lucky bounce his season could right back on track in two or three games easy. the snowball reference was to confidence my friend, one win and that snowball will hopefully hit a tree and behave itself if you get my drift. thanks Mythosman for being civil in your opinion and not biting my head off like a few people are prone too. Nick No problem Nick - treat others as you want to be treated is my motto! It's the only way to get some intelligent debate as opposed to a flame war! Acknowledge the point you make about Neilson's points tally, but unfortunately that doesn't tell the whole story. For some reason, the Elite League don't collect or publish +/- statistics (i.e. those based on who was on the ice when a goal was scored (for or against), but if they did, I believe that Neilson would be sporting a big minus stat. As to wages of individual players, we supporters can only speculate, but I don't think Stevens will be amongst the more modest earners in the squad.
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Post by newham on Nov 5, 2006 17:06:59 GMT
Neilson is poor, Stevens is poor, Moran is poor, Woolhouse is poor, Petricko is poor.
Sorry to go on about it, but there's a lot of poor in this side. Says a lot when they're getting outclassed by their own coach.
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Post by lockerbie on Nov 5, 2006 18:44:30 GMT
Newham, Moran has always been crap and Woolhouse, well not particularly reliable but we keep bringing them back. At least with Neilson and Stevens you dont know till you give them a try. (I don't actually agree that Sevens is crap but thats by the by). Why do we constantly bring back players that we know are rubbish, oh I know why 'jobs for the boys'. And eveyone keeps asking the same questions over and over again 'why do we never win anything'. Well there's part of your question answered.
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Post by icehockeychick on Nov 5, 2006 18:57:37 GMT
changes need to happen now. i heard neilson is on the highest wage at panthers and possible across the elite league not sure if true but if it is he sure aint worth the money and he needs to go. also i wouldnt want tessier back even before he had signed for steelers as he is a nasty little man.
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Post by KimThePanther on Nov 5, 2006 19:01:20 GMT
'why do we never win anything'. Because the club knows the fans will be there week in, week out regardless of how well or badly the team is performing and therefore doesn't feel the need to get out of second gear. The team and coach are not the whole of the problem we have. The mentality in which the club is run is also a factor. I agree with Mythosman that we're in need a shake up in our forward line. When your best player is someone who hasn't played regularly in some months you really have to begin to worry. We desperatley need a quality import centre and someone else to complement McAslan in his sharpshooting duties.
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Post by spik on Nov 5, 2006 19:42:06 GMT
Apparently we are not 'real fans' if we dont stick like glue to the team whatever happens. I personally still go even if we are poor and lose but I will say we were poor and that its not good enough. Like you say LilCrazyKim , as we will be there week after week it wont hurt attendance wise .Yet it is funny that as someone has said he is not coming back on another thread he is called for doing it. Seems like damed if I do and damed if I dont also.
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Post by hitman69 on Nov 5, 2006 20:05:13 GMT
Neilson is poor, Stevens is poor, Moran is poor, Woolhouse is poor, Petricko is poor. Sorry to go on about it, but there's a lot of poor in this side. Says a lot when they're getting outclassed by their own coach. i like some others on here would probably agree with you if you give a constructive reason as to why you think they ( Neilson, Stevens, Moran, Woolie) are poor and Petricko is poor. At the same point, you have to look at a few others, Blaz isnt the player he was last year at the moment IMO. James Cooke burst on the scene last year but hasn't continued on that same level ( considering Blaisdell didnt like icing Brits) this year IMO. Sorry but James Ferrara dont cut it for me IMO. perhaps that a bit unfair but was bringing him in just a numbers game. Lindsey hasnt had a shut out yet, am i right or wrong? Please let me know. I remember when Ellis signed him, he said " Evan steps up to the plate in the big games" does anyone on here agree he has stepped up to the plate yet? Why get rid of one of the best netty's from the last two seasons, CC? IMO Why not ice Neil more all the guy wants to do is play ice hockey, for me he is like Rooney all he wants to do is play and he isnt scared of having a go, great (ice hockey) brain and awareness for his age IMO. Ryan Shmyr dare i say anything, just an enforcer and thats all, but then again in the Hull and Edinburgh home games he didnt really enforce, let a few little niggles go when he could of sorted things out IMO. I agree with you Newham in some respects, Neilson just picking up a wage and is capable of better and must do better, Stevens too is capable of better, Moran, not sure here, Woolie, back up netty so to say he is poor isnt entirely fare, tend to agree with you on Petricko, but not to the exstent i would say he is poor, another player with maybe a bit of a confidence problem IMO. The rest IMO are doing a job to their best efforts, but that aint good enough at the moment, they dont seem to look like a team on the ice presently. they maybe together in the dressing room as Ellis has said on one or two occasions, but if they are not together on the ice what does that count for?too many lacking confidence? too many trying too hard? forgetting about the game plan? Ellis they each have a job to do each game each shift, but do you think they ARE doing their job every shift at the moment? Nothing against anyone on the forum least of all you Newham, but no one was slating the team for the first few games of the season, before the Conti Cup, everyone is entitled to an opinion, this one is mine and i hope i havent slated anyone of you Cagers personally. There arent many positives to take from results and performances at present apart from Clarke ( much improved on last year) Simoes ( 100% every shift ) Kracjiek ( the best of an ok bunch at the moment) Rees , Meyers, Myers steady but not consistantly on top of their game. we will miss injured McAslan no doubts dont think changing anyone at present will help, we all know the team is capable of, maybe in a month as someone has already said on here if results and performances haven't improved and alarm bells are ringing then, but, if we do change any players, look at the standard of player that was brought in for changes last year, grass isnt always greener IMO. I would be interested in your thoughts, having only been watching ice hockey for two years, in comparison to some of you guys, i consider my self a novice when it comes to addressing my thoughts about our beloved team on here. To Eli and the boys. Stay postitve, stay focused, play the game and enjoy
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Post by supermattytrickett on Nov 5, 2006 20:23:56 GMT
My thoughts are that as a fan who has been around the block a few times, this to me is reminisant of a Groundhog Day scenario which we all appear to debate come November of every season. However, at least in previous seasons we've hung our hopes on the Challenge Cup, which no longer remains an option for us.
I admire your positivity, and general willingness to believe that all around the corner in the garden of Panthers is rosy, however I see things from a different perspective. I personally am fed up of seeing this situation occur every year and am just desperate for anything or anyone to come in and shake this place to its foundations. The general malaise at the Nottingham Panthers seems to be alive and well, and STILL living in the basement of the NIC despite a coaching and major personel change. Is this acceptable? Well, I bet Neil Black wishes he'd never called us the 'Manchester United of British Ice Hockey' now.
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dans
Pat Casey
Posts: 363
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Post by dans on Nov 5, 2006 20:39:24 GMT
changes need to happen now. i heard neilson is on the highest wage at panthers and possible across the elite league not sure if true but if it is he sure aint worth the money and he needs to go. also i wouldnt want tessier back even before he had signed for steelers as he is a nasty little man. ;D The same nasty little man that scored the all improtant goal on Saturday? I bet you REALLY wish he played for you, than some of the drivel you have now!! ;D
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Post by grumpyminer on Nov 5, 2006 20:47:50 GMT
Good Post Hitman.
Agree with most of it but Shmyr. Do not under value what he does, as well as policing the ice for us, he is excellent on the PK, always gives his all and isn't phased by anything. Rees is beginning to show his worth as our main stay-at-home D cleaning up behind the other D who really should STAY-AT-HOME! With Lindsay- does "stepping up for the big games" mean he is shh...ocking in the bread and butter games. Consider the fact that his positioning has allowed Sheffield to score 3 goals in the last 2 games. On Friday the Sutter and Phillips goals and on Saturday Tessier could have parked a truck between Lindsay and the goalpost.
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Tambo
Jade Galbraith
Ayr Scottish Eagles gone but not forgotten
Posts: 159
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Post by Tambo on Nov 5, 2006 21:10:56 GMT
Ok most of you on here are advocating some changes to turn things around. You cannot change the whole team so who would you release. It is not cheap to do, so lets say there is enough money for 2 import changes. Who and why.
Tambo
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Post by supermattytrickett on Nov 5, 2006 21:20:39 GMT
Ok most of you on here are advocating some changes to turn things around. You cannot change the whole team so who would you release. It is not cheap to do, so lets say there is enough money for 2 import changes. Who and why. Tambo Can we really afford NOT to make a couple of roster changes now we've been dumped out of the Challenge Cup by our 'nearest and dearest'? This latest humiliation added to our woeful run of Elite League defeats and our unfruitful European adventure adds up to team that has pretty much lost any confidence that might have been gained in the time leading up to Rouen. It is so much easier to lose confidence rather than the much longer process needed to repair shattered confidence. Given that most of the team must look up to Corey Neilsen for his experience, then I would suggest that his air tickets are ordered first, and then you could possibly perm any one from three or four other 'contenders' at the moment.
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PeteW
Greg Hadden
Ageing anorak
Posts: 1,522
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Post by PeteW on Nov 5, 2006 21:26:15 GMT
so you'd rather have Tessier than McAslan? because id rather have Mcaslan as hes just as good imo but is big enough to look after himself and the budget sure as hell cant hold both. Personally I'd sooner have Tessier on the grounds that a play-making centre is more important to the team than a right winger. If we are talking right wingers, I'd sooner have McAslan that Sutter.
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Post by grumpyminer on Nov 5, 2006 21:29:39 GMT
I'd like Greg Hadden.
Or at least someone who can win 50%+ of their face-offs.
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Post by newham on Nov 6, 2006 0:16:50 GMT
Neilson is poor, Stevens is poor, Moran is poor, Woolhouse is poor, Petricko is poor. Sorry to go on about it, but there's a lot of poor in this side. Says a lot when they're getting outclassed by their own coach. i like some others on here would probably agree with you if you give a constructive reason as to why you think they ( Neilson, Stevens, Moran, Woolie) are poor and Petricko is poor. I often do and didn't feel like i'd have to in this situation but fair enough, here's an expanse on my criticisms: Neilson - for a former all-star of his previous leagues, he's disappointing. He can't control the puck, he can't pass and is constantly being caught out of position. I'd love to see his plus minus figures, he's constantly at fault. Moran - the only Brit who has failed to improve in 4 years. It was his needless penalty that brought about a Steelers goal last night and it isn't the first time. He may try hard but he has zero discipline and just isn't good enough. Petricko - Nothing personal, i just don't see him as being good enough. He has terrible finishing and doesn't put up enough points. Stevens - If he was a Brit, i'd be relatively happy with his input. As it is, he's a high-earning import and isn't putting up numbers worthy of his position on the top line. I actually cannot remember the last goal he scored for us. He was brilliant for Belfast, but is very poor for us. Woolhouse - Well, enough said really. He's wasting the most important time of his career just sitting on our bench. If he has any ambition he ought to ask to leave his contract and earn some valuable experience down in the lower leagues. As he is, he will never make it, not even in this country. Oh, and i'll add Shmyr to the list as well. He may be tough, but he does knacker all on the ice. Craighead had the same aura on the ice as he, but he also spent his time scoring goals. Shmyr doesn't even look like he's capable of getting a shot on target, let alone past a goalie. This team would kill for another Craighead.
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andyd
Ken Westman
THE logo!
Posts: 2,719
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Post by andyd on Nov 6, 2006 2:01:16 GMT
Why do people always hammer Neil Black as is the case once again in this thread? The guy is a business man and I'm delighted he keeps us on an even keel, no yearly fears of going under like other teams. He provides the money for the team up to the wage cap (and potentially a little further) as well as all the things that make Nottingham an attractive place to play. So he lives in London? And? He comes to some games, is it that hard to believe that he came to the game last night not to give an earful about missing a pay day but to CHEER THE TEAM IN THE HOPE OF REACHING THE SEMI-FINALS? Let's always choose the negative though, eh? Neil Black is not the bad guy...it never ceases to amaze me the flak he gets, what does he need to do to be appreciated? Come to every game, give the team talk, play on defence, sell the tickets and serve the tea? Sheesh.
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MP
Paul Adey
Hail hurts and rain is cold. Summer in the mountains
Posts: 6,811
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Post by MP on Nov 6, 2006 9:01:20 GMT
Neil Black is not the bad guy...it never ceases to amaze me the flak he gets, what does he need to do to be appreciated? Come to every game, give the team talk, play on defence, sell the tickets and serve the tea? Sheesh. Here here Andy, well said. Neil Black does things differently to some team owners. He doesn't choose to get involved in the day to day running of the Club - he has a manager and a coach to see to that. The fact he keeps a low profile doesn't mean he doesn't care about what happens at the Club. Neil has the money and aspirations to keep Panthers competing at the highest level but that doesn't bring any given right to success.
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Rich
Paul Adey
Go hard or go home
Posts: 6,691
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Post by Rich on Nov 6, 2006 9:44:03 GMT
Oh Newham, I agree with a lot of your post but to say we need Craighead back had me rolling on the floor, the only player I could think could make things any worse is JC!
When he was here he was a good wage, you cant compare Shmyr to Craighead in terms of replacement. Id rather have someone like Kalmikov in to replace Stevens and have Shmyr go out and give a few more cheap shots. Fair enough hes the perfect tough guy but we would benefit from him being a bit nastier. Then id still give Neilson the benefit of the doubt for a couple more weeks and just get him working on his passing. If he could make simple passes he wudnt be out of position in the first place.
Altho if I could make 3 changes id bring in a sharpshooter for Stevens, a proven goalie if ones out there (Maybe CC) for Lids and a more reliable/all round D man for Corey
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