Tom
Pat Casey
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Post by Tom on Jun 17, 2008 15:50:24 GMT
But as we do need them to cover for injuries. So we do need to play them to get experience so when they are covering for other players they aren't completely unfamiliar with their team mates, the speed of the game and the tactis the team plays. I think the truth of the matter at the moment is that they get all that anyway because they're required to make up reasonable numbers (tied up in the 'giving players a rest' bit). And isn't most of this addressed in training anyway? Training is no substitute for on-ice match experience.
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Tom
Pat Casey
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Post by Tom on Jun 17, 2008 15:12:16 GMT
In the end if it is the right time to Ice them does it really affect your enjoyment that much in the whole scheme of things. IMHO to begrudge these lads the chance to improve their skills with the panthers in a game enviroment and in training is just so petty and short sighted to the extreme, or have i missed something did anyone suggest putting them on the first two lines then? As I've said previously (I think), I have no problem with the use of Brit players on the ice in the current set-up but their use should be principally tactical and only coincidentally developmental; it's fine for them to pick up experience when they're on the ice covering for injuries or to enable senior players in need of a rest to get one but it's not fine to create opportunities for them to develop in competitive games when it weakens the team. That's all, really. But as we do need them to cover for injuries. So we do need to play them to get experience so when they are covering for other players they aren't completely unfamiliar with their team mates, the speed of the game and the tactis the team plays.
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Tom
Pat Casey
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Post by Tom on Jun 17, 2008 10:50:53 GMT
And if clarke and richardson money goes down then it will be europe for them, and still no top line brits then! The isl went down because the teams went bust might that have been overcommitting on too many imports over for the beer league, lets be honest do these players care wether the league can afford them or not, they are mercenaries and have no loyalty to our league whatsoever! We go bust they move on to another beer league simple really! If you think the imports will come over here for the same money as the lower end brits you are deluded. If you want to see just canadians and yanks on the ice watch the NHL, me i like to see one or two locals that you can relate to and will be eager to play every game! In the end if we are say three up and corey wants to ice the kids for one shift or two what difference does that make to your enjoyment of the win? The problem was that Mike did not do it at the right time not that it shouldnt be done at all in my view and if that is the problem well i cannot see Corey making that mistake can you! Getting a bit agitated are we, you want to relax, won't do you any good. You know full well what I meant regarding low end Brits wages. Brit wages plus money saved from not having to pay your Weavers/Clarkes as much will get you a much better import for your money than a Brit. Give me one reason why overcommiting on imports could cause a league to go bust?? You can still stick to a wage cap with a team of imports you know, it isn't that hard to figure out. The problem with the ISL was the level of spending kept rising and teams started to fall away, nothing to do with the nationality of the players. I think your deluded if you think there's many if any British players in this league that if were good enough wouldn't be playing in a better league. Hockey players in general are all mercenaries, in fact humanity in general. What accent you've got makes no difference in the slightest. Clarke went to Italy last year. Shields has been in N.A. a considerable amount of his career. Owen has just gone to France. Yep the Brits are brimming with loyalty aren't they. I doubt there's one single player that is loyal to our league as you put it, why would they be. Nick And if you really think the owners would actually vote for an import limit if it did not limit costs then you are seriously deluded. The owners have never shown any willingness to think of the good of the sport as a whole. The reason why the top Brits can demand so much money is that there are only a few of them. That was caused by the ISL years when hardly any top end Brits came through. As more and more better British players come through the system then the wages they can demand will come down to a similar level to that of the imports. And you are still ignoring the extremely large costs of imports in respect of ITC cards which are at least £1,000 each and often a lot more. Then there are flights from North America, yes these were cheap once, but have you noticed the recent increase in fuel costs thats going to bite hard. Then there is the process of getting them work permits that will not be cheap. Then you have the housing costs which any import is going to have to incur where local Brits will not. Yes there are a few exceptions but all the examples are where clubs have not bothered with there own developement system and just waved a large amount of money and a free house at Brits developed elsewhere. You can't just compare Brits and imports wage for wage as there are other factors involved, which you not considered at all.
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Tom
Pat Casey
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Post by Tom on Jun 16, 2008 22:39:58 GMT
So are you happy watching imports that the Danish and German Teams don't want. If its them or the bench warmers that some clubs are carrying as line fillers then yes unfortunately I would. So you would also be prepared to watch British players if they were the same standard then. You speak as someone obviously in the 'loop', how many players are currently in development that will make the EIHL as first liners, and in what sort of time span. That is a difficult question to answer as you cannot always tell how a player will develope as they grow older. Some excellent record breaking Juniors when they get to senior level suddenly discover that they really have to work hard to get into a senior team and don't cope with it. Other players that never really did that well in juniors mature well and make excellent senior players. To be honest I haven't seen all the players in the system any way. So I can only comment on the Lions players. So apart from Bullas, Lachowicz, and Graham who are all capable of becoming first liners. Then there are also Tom Norton and Ashley Calvert. Those are the ones that should be challenging for a place in the Panthers roster in the next two to three years. But there are plently more in the system. There is at least one or two in each age year. But then Nottingham is consistantly one of the best developement programmes in the country. Also with reference to your previous post, is it not the natural progression to move from the Lions (for example) to The Panthers (again as a close to home example), now there is no better 'middle' league. It would appear that Corey Neilson feels so. He was present at the recent league final, which Lions won, with his coaching staff. What has happened for a number of years now is that a number of Lions players have trained with the Panthers but played with the Lions. And that I understand is to continue, but it is nothing formal just some of the Lions players train with the Panthers. It would be better if the Lions were still in the EPL but the costs of that league are just to high. But the ENL is still a lot better league than people think and it is about to get better as is to split into Division I and II. So Lions will play the better teams more often which can only be good for those players wishing to progress.
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Tom
Pat Casey
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Post by Tom on Jun 16, 2008 21:26:06 GMT
an EPL team is not going to house these kids or pay travelling costs to some kid that is probably going to play for the Panthers or other EIHL team when they get good enough. There is oldmans answer in a nutshell Sorry but have I missed another question from Oldman the only one I can see is "simple question Chris and without just stating the usual suspect why isnt there a link between all the teams from under tens upwards to the panthers, it cannot be down to just one man surely, if that is so then maybe the fact that corey coaches some of the youngsters may help get over that barrier! " And that is not answered by my quote in any shape or form. The link between the Panthers and the Nottingham Ice hockey Club was severed by the near demise of the Panthers back in 1997 and their subsequent purchase by Aladin management. At the time all hockey in Nottingham was part of Nottigham Ice Hockey club. But Panthers spent too much money and nearly bankrupted the club as a whole. The split caused a lot bad blood on both sides.
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Tom
Pat Casey
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Post by Tom on Jun 16, 2008 20:37:00 GMT
Well how would you like it if some German team sent a few kids over to Panthers and said develope these and as soon as there any good send them back. Ok then let us suppose that all teams commit to a development program. If in 8 or 10 years time the 'top end' Brits are too good or too expensive for our league and can command a roster place in Germany, Denmark or where ever,will we still be left with the remnants that nobody else wants? Will we still be complaining that there is not enough good home grown talent in our league? The cream willinevitably rise to the top and if they are good enough they'll get a game. Do you really think that a successful developement program will produce a few "super" players and then a load of useless players not worth watching. No there will be a few "super" players playing abroad and a larger number of good player who are not quite good enough to hold down an import role abroad plus there will be players who would rather play for their home teams. So are you happy watching imports that the Danish and German Teams don't want.
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Tom
Pat Casey
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Post by Tom on Jun 16, 2008 17:38:38 GMT
The number number top British Players that came through during the ISL era is... well I can only think of David Clarke. 10 games for the Kniggits hardly counts as an ISL career. He also spent a season with the Newcastle Jesters and would have been more but they went out of business. But it does prove the point. When the top league had import restrictions we developed a lot more quality Brits than when we did not and any attempt to argue otherwise is delusional. There does seem to be a lot of why should I pay more for Elite league hockey than I did for ISL hockey. Well ISL hockey bankrupted a lot of people and they ran out suckers prepared to waste their money bankrolling an ISL team. Sorry it just did not make money anywhere other than here, and over the full course of the superleague I'd be surprised if the profits we made towards the end of the superleague outweighed the losses we sustained at the start. The truth of the matter is British Ice hockey cannot sustain full import hockey. OK we probably could and maybe sheffield could. We all know a league of two just isn't going to work so we need to compromise. That means limiting imports because it does limit costs, they wouldn't do otherwise. So we need to have British players, therefore we need to develope them and if they are local players then even better as they won't require housing. And yes we could ask them to go to some EPL team and develope there. Well how would you like it if some German team sent a few kids over to Panthers and said develope these and as soon as there any good send them back. You don't want to give ice time to our own youngsters let alone someone elses. Plus are we going to pay there travelling costs because an EPL team is not going to house these kids or pay travelling costs to some kid that is probably going to play for the Panthers or other EIHL team when they get good enough.
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Tom
Pat Casey
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Post by Tom on Jun 15, 2008 22:23:03 GMT
Were these Brits or Duel Nationals though? I don't know have only been following since 2002. Brits. The Cooper boys, Lobby, Hand, Lyle, Tait, Weaver. Then I'm struggling, could be the Magners though. Likewise last season, could you make 2 lines of worth from the British lads? How about Simon Hunt, Graham Waghorn, and Randall Weber. And all those players came through during the Heineken Days when there were only 3 imports allowed. The number number top British Players that came through during the ISL era is... well I can only think of David Clarke. You can't really count Colin Shields and he went to the US to develope. The main reason for lack of Top Brits now is the ISL didn't see any need for them and there were few oportunities for them once they had reached 19 a lot of very talented players gave the sport. And lot of people forget that if you employ a local Brit there are substantial savings to be made over imported players. No ITC card no airfares, no work permits and above all no housing costs.Plus a lot of the local youngsters that sit on the bench and get a few shifts here and there generally don't get paid much, if at all. So why do you people resent them so much?
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Tom
Pat Casey
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Post by Tom on May 18, 2008 23:17:41 GMT
Score was Cougars 4 Guildford 3.
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Tom
Pat Casey
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Post by Tom on Apr 8, 2008 20:00:29 GMT
Thanks Spik I have replied to your PM.
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Tom
Pat Casey
Posts: 248
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Post by Tom on Apr 8, 2008 18:14:35 GMT
If so can I be cheeky and ask for a lift to the game. Especially if you are travelling from the Chilwell/Beeston area.
I would drive myself but I'm going to be flying out from Birmingham Airport to Austria at 06:50 the following morning so I'm going straight to the Airport from the game. And my original lift has to go to a Scout AGM.
I will pay a contribution to the petrol both ways. Anyone able to help please message me.
Thanks.
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Tom
Pat Casey
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Post by Tom on Apr 1, 2008 12:02:57 GMT
Making statements like that makes you look pretty daft as well, Nick... how much exposure have you had to the whole GB setup? This will be my 7th consecutive year following GB to the Worlds, and I can tell you straight - even being on the periphery of it all, it's plainly obvious that the whole GB setup is riddled with politics. Junior hockey in this country is riddled with politics, so is senior club hockey - you're naive if you think that the national team(s) setup isn't as well. As for this team selection - I'm not happy. Granted there appear to be a few things not under Thompson's control - Meyers withdrawing (I'm assuming that's his choice - I don't know), Richardson and Sample being injured, etc etc. But I was publicly unhappy last year about Thompson being chosen as GB coach, and the selection/performance last year did nothing to change my mind - this year's selection makes me even less enamoured of the coaching. Rempel was useless last year - he only bothered against the relegation team - Longstaff and Shields always seem to underperform for GB... like you, I wonder why the hell Pease is even considered... and Fone? What about Craze? What about that lad from Newcastle? (I forget the name). And I have to wonder if Rempel and (Gary) Clarke will even make it to the Worlds... of their club teams are at the EPL play-offs weekend (the EIHA'S fault there, not Thompson's) then will there be pressure put on them to go club not country? We've seen that kind of thing before... As a GB fan, I'm not impressed at all. But you go on and blindly defend everything Coventry as usual, Nick... You fool. I have never blindly defended Coventry and never will do. Any Blaze fan will tell you that. I have opinions based on my own experiences and knowledge. I've known Thommo long enough to know that he's a winner and he'll pick the team that he thinks is the best one available. I don't believe for one minute that he would pick a team that would lessen his chances of winning because of politics. I believe that because of my experiences of knowing the guy. Following Coventry has nothing to do with it and your a fool if you think it has. See you at the PO weekend. So anyone who disagrees with your opinion is a fool. That is not a very impressive argument. Its like saying because you actually know Thompson and are not just a Blaze fan then you can't be accused of being biased in his favour. It must also mean I'm completely stupid because not only did I think that GB selection is and always has been riddled with politics, everything you have posted here has convinced even more that that is the case.
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Tom
Pat Casey
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Post by Tom on Jan 26, 2008 9:40:34 GMT
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Tom
Pat Casey
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Post by Tom on Jan 13, 2008 10:31:39 GMT
And you are clearly ignoring what I have been saying, which is that there is very much a demand for another ice pad in the Nottingham area. It is not a case of we would really like one but we really need one. Do you think it is reasonable that under 11 Midland conference team has to train after 11.00pm because it is the only ice time they can get anywhere in the region? That means they finish on the ice after midnight and the have to get home. Do I think it's reasonable? I certainly don't think it's unreasonable. If your dedicated to your sport - you go with it. I had a friend at school who was a a swimmer at regional level. he had to be at Beechdale Baths at 5.00am for 2 hours, before heading to school. He never once asked for another pool to be built. I admit it's not always convenient, but it's barely reason to build another rink. It's certainly not the goverments business to invest & build them either. OK if it is your opinion that government is not responsible for building sports facilities then that's fair enough. That is your opinion. But you have been suggesting that there is no need or demand for any extra ice facilities in Nottingham. I hope you will now accept that if another rink was built it would be fully used. As for those that suggest signing this petition will have no effect all I can say is that how do you know that. There is a chance it might and it is better than doing nothing at all because if we do nothing then there is definitely no chance of anything being done.
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Tom
Pat Casey
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Post by Tom on Jan 12, 2008 14:48:59 GMT
Noone is saying the facilities are poor just that they are completely insufficient, as it is really only one ice pad plus occasional use of a second one which is mostly taken over by Arena Events. They also do not necessarily meets the needs of all the teams that would like to play there. And yes there have been teams that have been unable to play due to lack of suitable ice time, plus many many players throughout the Nottingham Ice Hockey Club who do not get to actually play any games because of the lack of ice time. There are several Lions players who have never even made it onto the bench this season. You may wish to watch hockey in a plush arena, but a lot of the kids that don't get to play because of the lack of ice time would happily swap thew NIC for 3 or 4 smaller rinks if it got them a game. But I'm not saying the NIC needs to go but that even we here in Nottingham could do with more ice pads and I am aware that there are places in the UK which are in even greater need us. The facillities, & ice pads (& availability) are certainly a massive improvement on what was on the site before. I am sure the people of places like Mansfield, Leicester & the likes of would love a shiney ice pad of their own. I just don't think there is sufficient need/demand to build them in these places. <B>I think some people are confusing ''Oooohh I'd like one'' with ''Is there actually a need or demand for one?''</B> And you are clearly ignoring what I have been saying, which is that there is very much a demand for another ice pad in the Nottingham area. It is not a case of we would really like one but we really need one. Do you think it is reasonable that under 11 Midland conference team has to train after 11.00pm because it is the only ice time they can get anywhere in the region? That means they finish on the ice after midnight and the have to get home.
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Tom
Pat Casey
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Post by Tom on Jan 11, 2008 18:40:35 GMT
your comenting on the arena facilitys as a ice rink/centre it is pretty poor tbh you could put another rink in mansfield, you could even put another rink right on bolero sq and it would still be full same in sheffield they say even if they had the same again they could book it out easily I wasn't commenting on the Arena facillities actually. You think the two ice pads are poor facillities? Noone is saying the facilities are poor just that they are completely insufficient, as it is really only one ice pad plus occasional use of a second one which is mostly taken over by Arena Events. They also do not necessarily meets the needs of all the teams that would like to play there. And yes there have been teams that have been unable to play due to lack of suitable ice time, plus many many players throughout the Nottingham Ice Hockey Club who do not get to actually play any games because of the lack of ice time. There are several Lions players who have never even made it onto the bench this season. You may wish to watch hockey in a plush arena, but a lot of the kids that don't get to play because of the lack of ice time would happily swap thew NIC for 3 or 4 smaller rinks if it got them a game. But I'm not saying the NIC needs to go but that even we here in Nottingham could do with more ice pads and I am aware that there are places in the UK which are in even greater need us.
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Tom
Pat Casey
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Post by Tom on Jan 11, 2008 13:40:28 GMT
Why? If I was to question an MP/Local goverment person about it, they 1st question I would expect to be asked is ''How are the facillities in YOUR area?'' To which I'd have to reply ''Excellent''. Case closed. Well if it is so excellent why do Panthers not compete in the Knockout Cup and why have the Lions had to forfeit league games in the past? The answer is because there is insufficient ice-time being available. I don't think that is excellent at all. There is a very distinct case of demand for ice-time out stripping supply in Nottingham and we do really need another rink that is a rink not an arena. So I have signed this petition as even in the Nottingham arena we need more ice to be available..
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Tom
Pat Casey
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Post by Tom on Feb 13, 2008 22:49:21 GMT
Thank you Vipers. ;D ;D ;D Nottingham Lions ENIHL North Champions 2007-8. Now lets beat them from up the road to maintain the undefeated home record and celebrate in style.
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Tom
Pat Casey
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Post by Tom on Jan 6, 2008 21:41:01 GMT
Final Score Bradford Bulldogs 1 Nottingham Lions 13. ;D
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Tom
Pat Casey
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Post by Tom on Nov 26, 2007 21:26:28 GMT
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Tom
Pat Casey
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Post by Tom on Sept 23, 2007 19:25:19 GMT
Final Score from Blackburn is Hawks 3 Lions 4, well done Lions sounds like an exiting game and an excellent result on the road.
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Tom
Pat Casey
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Post by Tom on Sept 16, 2007 22:28:51 GMT
Just got back from this game, and must say this was a good all round performance from Lions. Great netminding from MOM Alan Levers, the defence played but I was especially impressed by Tom Norton and all four forward lines played well. It was a better game than the scoreline suggests Flintshire were unlucky not to score/Alan Levers really did deserve his MOM. At least the second and third periods were the first period was the Evans show as the ref really did make some bizarre calls. The score would also have been closer if Flintshire had reacted to those calls with the same maturity that the much younger Lions did. Dispite the Ref a very entertaining game.
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Tom
Pat Casey
Posts: 248
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Post by Tom on Nov 20, 2005 22:18:27 GMT
Flintshire Freeze 3 Lions 6
Good away win for the Lions.
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Tom
Pat Casey
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Post by Tom on Sept 18, 2005 19:16:24 GMT
Bad news from Billingham I'm afraid. Lions 6-1 down at the end of the second. Bad night all round for Nottingham.
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Tom
Pat Casey
Posts: 248
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Post by Tom on Jan 24, 2007 17:44:09 GMT
Basically what the Lions get in entrance money barely covers the cost of the referees and thats it. The ice time is has to be paid for by the club. The Lions really do need as many people to come along as possible as it is a very expensive sport. £5.00 is not that much and it is only the third tier of British Hockey. There are some very promissing youngsters playing for the Lions this year and the skill level is quite high. I'm sure most people would be surprised how good the games are.
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