Maybe if it were free

[Milkman™]

Just thinking out loud really.

I was talking to an old friend who is a scout for Leeds United a few weeks ago, and he asked if I had seen anybody of worth junior wise on my travels.

I said I would keep my eyes open (Leeds do need all the help they can get).

It got me thinking, is hockey the only game where I get charged to see the lowest level in this country?

I can go watch a number of games on a Sunday from under 8's right up to county level players, and even the semi pro clubs only charge a couple of quid entry, and usually free car parking is on hand too.

Would more people go watch the Lions if it were free?

[mattscold]

Probably but im sure the costs of running an ice hockey club would be a lot higher than those of running a sunday league football club, you've got all the equipment to think about as well as renting ice time, im sorry but a fiver is a bargain to see the Lions i think! And also the Lions don't have a sponser do they? (could be wrong)

[Shaggy]

Well, the juniors are free entry... some people wander along to watch them, but not a huge number.

Anyway - the Lions have to cover costs. Not player wages, because they don't get paid - nor do the coaches/management or anyone else helping out. Hell - the players have to pay for their own practice time and away coach travel.

But the ice-time has to be paid for, and so do the officials' expenses...

If there are costs, there has to be revenue to cover them. Simple as. And if anyone has a guaranteed way of doing so without charging entry fees, I for one would be very interested in hearing it...

[newham]

Renting a football pitch costs an awful lot less than renting a hockey rink. For football, you also only need boots, a goal and a ball. Hockey players need a lot more.

[grumpyminer]

It's the same in junior footie. It's free for someone to come along and watch. It's not free ifyou happen to be a player's parent. £2 subs, £3 for training, raffle tickets on sale,etc.

All that to pay for a pitch, at up to £35 per game, referee at up to £20 per game, kit and tracksuits, etc at around £500 per season, then it has to be washed.

Sorry Milkman, nothing is ever "free".

If you do see anyone collecting for the juniors in any sport, chuck em a quid, Please!!

[Rich]

Nice theory, as everyone has said tho its not an option. I run a non league team and it costs £300 to put on a game. £15 each when rolling 3lines, just for games. Add on kit, shirts, training, travel and its in danger of getting crazy! League hockey is even more because of insurance etc so that £5 entry really doesnt go very far im afraid

[quoththeraven]

shaggy said:

Anyway - the Lions have to cover costs. Not player wages, because they don't get paid - nor do the coaches/management or anyone else helping out. Hell - the players have to pay for their own practice time and away coach travel.

But the ice-time has to be paid for, and so do the officials' expenses...

If there are costs, there has to be revenue to cover them. Simple as. And if anyone has a guaranteed way of doing so without charging entry fees, I for one would be very interested in hearing it...

In all honesty most teams - the Panthers included - would get more fans if it was free to get in. However it's not always a practical solution. As Shaggy pointed out, we have to try to make ends meet somehow. If it wasn't for the fact that everyone behind the scenes (the managers and the Friends of the Lions) volunteered their time and energy without recompense, the costs would be much higher.

I don't know of the exact figures as I'm not the treasurer, but I do know that if we make a profit it's a tiny one, and often on Panthers clash days we don't make one at all.

mattscold said:

im sorry but a fiver is a bargain to see the Lions i think!

Thank you ;D, and you don't have to be sorry . Sunday 28th, 5.45pm, the Lions take on Flintshire.

grumpyminer said:

If you do see anyone collecting for the juniors in any sport, chuck em a quid, Please!!

Haven't been to any juniors since September, but part of my dad's obsession with hockey is that he goes to many junior games, often being the only non-attached supporter, and on many occasions if I've been at home I've gone with him. I always buy a programme and a raffle ticket, even if I pay to get in. I feel more respectful doing that. I know it's not much but it's a gesture to the people running the team for the time and effort they put in.

[Tom]

Basically what the Lions get in entrance money barely covers the cost of the referees and thats it. The ice time is has to be paid for by the club. The Lions really do need as many people to come along as possible as it is a very expensive sport. £5.00 is not that much and it is only the third tier of British Hockey. There are some very promissing youngsters playing for the Lions this year and the skill level is quite high. I'm sure most people would be surprised how good the games are.

[carolle]

"Sunday 28th, 5.45pm, the Lions take on Flintshire"...

More likely to be around 7pm as the U12`s play Sheffield that night aswell ( 2 x 20 min periods)

[quoththeraven]

icehockey said:

"Sunday 28th, 5.45pm, the Lions take on Flintshire"...

More likely to be around 7pm as the U12`s play Sheffield that night aswell ( 2 x 20 min periods)

I'm just going on what I was told the other day.

[Milkman™]

shaggy said:

Well, the juniors are free entry... some people wander along to watch them, but not a huge number...

So why do the Lions charge

[carolle]

quoththeraven said:

icehockey said:

"Sunday 28th, 5.45pm, the Lions take on Flintshire"...

More likely to be around 7pm as the U12`s play Sheffield that night aswell ( 2 x 20 min periods)

I'm just going on what I was told the other day.

Flintshire have it down as 6pm ....

so it could be anyones guess as to what time it will start.

[heja]

therapy said:

shaggy said:

Well, the juniors are free entry... some people wander along to watch them, but not a huge number...

So why do the Lions charge

because i think the juniors get the ice at a cut price rate or maybe even free.

the ice time at the nic is stupid at the minute £200 is for just over an hour i think

lions will have quite big running cost.

and the players have to pay for it all.

[Alf Garnett]

The Lions aren't the juniors and are not in any way affiliated to the Panthers. Therefore they are an individual team trying to make an honest quid. That is why they charge Milkman.

[Milkman™]

andyblath said:

The Lions aren't the juniors and are not in any way affiliated to the Panthers. Therefore they are an individual team trying to make an honest quid. That is why they charge Milkman.

So out of curiosity why are the Lions that ice for the Panthers (or ex Lions) not getting/giving some 'kicker' back.

Maybe they need to look for better agents if this is not the case, a Lions player gets called up for the Panthers and the Lions get nothing out of it, now that is a travesty of organisation.

[Nottingham Lions]

heja said:

therapy said:

So why do the Lions charge

because i think the juniors get the ice at a cut price rate or maybe even free.

the ice time at the nic is stupid at the minute £200 is for just over an hour i think

lions will have quite big running cost.

and the players have to pay for it all.

The ice time isn't free, but is cheaper because it's block-booked. IIRC the figure is still around £90 an hour, double for the Arena.

The Lions simply couldn't afford to run the team if the entry was free. UNLESS WE HAD A MAJOR SPONSOR. On the average week the gate money doesn't even cover the refs fees. Refs don't do it for nothing so we're stuffed there.

I'd love to see the Lions drop their entrance fee, but it's not going to happen.

[Milkman™]

lionspress said:

UNLESS WE HAD A MAJOR SPONSOR.

I really dont want to be seen as agent provocateur here, but why havent they?

[heja]

because its hard getting sponsors, plus no ones got the time to spend looking for them and talking to them at a guess

every team in ice hockey needs sponsors from rec to the pros, and it really aint easy to get them

our team in sheffield got £500 from a sponsor that would cover a game and a training session or two, if the players didn't pay for the training and games.

[Shaggy]

therapy said:

lionspress said:

UNLESS WE HAD A MAJOR SPONSOR.

I really dont want to be seen as agent provocateur here, but why havent they?

Sponsors generally give money to teams for one or both of two reasons:-

1). Personal interest. Maybe they have a passion for the sport, maybe they have a relative playing on the team, whatever. This is, of course, the rarest kind of sponsor.

2). They believe that they will get some good publicity out of it that will help their business... that their name and/or message will be seen, remembered and maybe appreciated by a lot of people. That means they are only likely to sponsor a team with a lot of fans, yes?
The Lions have a small fanbase... this is a known fact. Therefore there is very little incentive for a business to give money to the Lions in the hope of receiving something back.

To get any kind of sponsor, we need to be either very, very lucky... or need a lot more fans to prove to businesses that it's worth their cash.

Now if anyone can come up with a major sponsor with all of the above in mind... we would be VERY interested! And we have tried... believe me, we have tried....

[Nottingham Lions Manager]

So let me get this straight you want to see the Lions go though. Next I will hear that Lions players get paid £500 a week. We don't even give comp tickets to away teams because we cannot afford to do it.

[Milkman™]

lionsmanager said:

So let me get this straight you want to see the Lions go though. Next I will hear that Lions players get paid £500 a week. We don't even give comp tickets to away teams because we cannot afford to do it.

That makes no sense.

I am saying maybe your attendances, and hence your income would be higher, if your profile/product were better.

Prime example, when your netminder warmed the bench for Panthers last week, what did the Lions get from that?, in football or rugby the smaller 'feeder' club would get some financial gain from such a situation.

Earlier in this thread I was told there is no affiliation between the Panthers and Lions, so why would you let a player be borrowed by a richer club for free.

[Shaggy]

therapy said:

lionsmanager said:

So let me get this straight you want to see the Lions go though. Next I will hear that Lions players get paid £500 a week. We don't even give comp tickets to away teams because we cannot afford to do it.

That makes no sense.

I am saying maybe your attendances, and hence your income would be higher, if your profile/product were better.

Well, duh... that's not exactly rocket science, is it? Question is - how do we get there from here? Got any practical suggestions?

Prime example, when your netminder warmed the bench for Panthers last week, what did the Lions get from that?, in football or rugby the smaller 'feeder' club would get some financial gain from such a situation.

And how many times does this have to be said before it sinks in? This isn't football or rugby. This isn't a majority sport in this country with lots of dosh to chuck around. Maybe it should be. Maybe I would want it to be. But it isn't. And there's not a single thing the Lions can do about that.

Earlier in this thread I was told there is no affiliation between the Panthers and Lions, so why would you let a player be borrowed by a richer club for free.

Why not?
Why should the Lions deny Alan the chance? Why should he be treated as some kind of pawn in a contest between teams? And what possible good would it do? Do you really think that the Panthers would - if faced by a demand from the Lions for money in return for borrowing Alan - would quiver and offer dosh, pleading "let us use him, please... we beg of you!"??

No, there is no affiliation between the Panthers and Lions. This is - IMHO anyway - A Bad Thing (TM). However, I've been told of the historical reasons behind it, and from personal observation plus a lot of talking with various people it seems that there are obstacles existing on both sides as to why it has not changed.
I don't like it, but I can't change it... I'm not sure any one single person could. So from my POV - we have to work within the limits of what is currently possible... not what we would wish for.

And if the Lions and the NIHC are willing to cooperate with the Panthers to some extent, that is surely better than nothing. If nothing else, it might be a foundation on which to build better cooperation in the future. Saying "no, bog off, you can't have him" would probably have the opposite effect, yes?

[Nottingham Lions]

therapy said:

lionsmanager said:

So let me get this straight you want to see the Lions go though. Next I will hear that Lions players get paid £500 a week. We don't even give comp tickets to away teams because we cannot afford to do it.

That makes no sense.

I am saying maybe your attendances, and hence your income would be higher, if your profile/product were better.

Are you going to help us increase our profile then - instead of spouting off rubbish??

The Friends of the Lions work their socks off all season to promote the team in & around Nottingham. We do stuff that some clubs will do with the help of full-time staff, and we still have full-time jobs too. I'm sat here today, on my day off, in front of my PC doing stuff for the Lions game at the weekend.

We have tried and tried to get sponsorship - it's not easy when you have the Panthers. Most people will have heard of them - but never the Lions. When you explain and mention Junior hockey they're not interested. There's no "glory" to it. We have picked up a couple of sponsors that has made life a little easier - but one is the Managers' son and the other is the coach company!

There's nothing more I want than the Lions to be playing to a crowd of hundreds, not a handful of people. BUT unless things change it's never going to happen. We have to battle against so much just to put a team on the ice - a struggle that is harder than you think it is trust me.

Everyone who reads this is a Panthers fan - there's no doubting that and no contest - if the Panthers are playing then you'll watch them. Fair Enough. All we ask is that when their not - or if your not travelling away then you pay your fiver & come watch. If you like it, come back when you can. If you don't then don't watch.

[mattscold]

I think the reason Alan Levers helped out the Panthers is because hes a manager at the NIC anyway so he was probably just around and willing to help out, it probably wasn't a Lion's decision but Lever's decision himself! (just speculation mind!)

[Pucky]

mattscold said:

I think the reason Alan Levers helped out the Panthers is because hes a manager at the NIC anyway so he was probably just around and willing to help out, it probably wasn't a Lion's decision but Lever's decision himself! (just speculation mind!)

Spot On! Alan was asked and volunteered he still could have said no. If Rich Griffiths had been around, then there was a chance he would have been backing up the Panthers instead.

Alan of course cleared it with Mike, as Lions coach, but Mike will never stand in anyones way - as long as it doesn't affect the Lions.