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Post by bobness on Mar 29, 2024 13:51:32 GMT
There's "classic spin", clearly, apparently, but in reality, there was little, if any, "spin". He's done the 2 things the team alluded to, physicality and face offs, but Iggy still thinks he's "a crap player" and that's all that matters. Whilst we don't publicly have the stats for hits, it's been alluded to on twitter that Pare hits a lot. Perhaps a lot more than almost anyone in the league. And he doesn't fight (except the 2 fights he's had). And as for "leaving that to Kelsall" I suspect a lot depends who's on the ice when that happens, as leaving the bench to fight is generally frowned upon... And if he's good at face offs, it's the standard Iggy/Pidge "Well that just goes to show you how rubbish everyone else is" line. "He’s lost almost as many face offs as he’s won". I mean I can hardly hear that for the sound of straws being grasped at. Over 54% (which as any fule kno is what you measure face off success by) when the next best on the entire team hasn't cracked 45%... Yep, he's brought nothing there... he's only the 11th best regular face off man in the entire league. Since his first game, he has a "corrected for errors" -10, which is as good, if not better, than 5 other Panthers players. Not ideal, sure, but in no way some kind of outlier. Biggest news is that Iggy watches plenty of games, it seems. Sorry Iggy, I can't dig you here, daddio. There's no "classic spin" to see. He may not be a David Ling difference maker, that is true, but I don't think anyone, himself included, thought he would be. He's done his job for me, especially seeing as he didn't start it until mid-January.
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Post by bobness on Mar 29, 2024 8:38:37 GMT
According to the stats, Lunsjo played more minutes than Otto? Bit strange. I agree though, Pare has gone off the boil a bit lately. Honestly. I never thought was any good from the start He's struggled to find a consistent place in the side, for me, injuries haven't helped. We've seen flashes of what he can do, but not yet the consistency for whatever reason. He's certainly improved face off winning, at the very least.
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Post by bobness on Mar 29, 2024 7:41:48 GMT
Top result. Did Pare get benched or something else? Only played 6:10? No, but he was put down to 4th line with Lunsjo. I did nearly have a heart attack near the end with around 1m30s left when we had an offensive zone face off and of all people Lemay was in the circle. Strange call. Pare has really gone off these last few weeks. According to the stats, Lunsjo played more minutes than Otto? Bit strange. I agree though, Pare has gone off the boil a bit lately.
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Post by bobness on Mar 28, 2024 22:05:26 GMT
Top result. Did Pare get benched or something else? Only played 6:10?
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Post by bobness on Mar 28, 2024 18:12:15 GMT
I'm old enough to remember him playing as a a forward... He played in the ECHL and the old IHL for a season too. Agreed, a top class player.
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Post by bobness on Mar 28, 2024 18:03:54 GMT
Fife have 11 points out of the last 12. Gulp. We, Flyers, have been in really good form since the turn of the year losing only 5 games in regulation since Jan 1, one of them to Panthers We've won in Belfast, Cardiff and Nottingham and we're the first team to beat Steelers on their travels. We have been a good watch this calendar year and the crowds have been coming to see it as well That must be good from your side of things to be able to say that as it's not been overly rosy in Kirkcaldy the last few years, to be fair. I do have a bit of a soft spot for Fife, they used to bring some stellar players over to play in the UK. I still wonder how on earth they managed to get Doug Smail basically straight out of the NHL...
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Post by bobness on Mar 28, 2024 14:16:44 GMT
Good to hear we can play 3 D lines (assuming with Kelsall). As others have said, lose tonight and that'll be it for the season. Fife seem to be in good form as well so it won't be easy. Fife have 11 points out of the last 12. Gulp.
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Post by bobness on Mar 28, 2024 10:08:57 GMT
We can agree on the first bit, Caruso is a more defensive minded D man, for sure. As to Ryczek being "better" than Tetlow, that I'm not so sure on, they are wholly different players.
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Post by bobness on Mar 28, 2024 9:13:16 GMT
Back to +/- briefly. It's also the big problem with the likes of Welsh, Anderson & Pare. Not scoring many points but all very much in the negative. Anderson -20 and Pare -12. Just not bringing enough overall. Agreed that lazy forwards and a poor goalie can affect players stats,however then you have a pretty regular D pairing like Neill and Caruso playing together but one has a horrible -20 whilst the other is only -5 so that’s rather strange.[/quote] To that end, Neill and Caruso have the following stats (adjusted by me due to EIHL errors, so differ a little) Individually, so far Neill 37 +s, 57 -s for -20 Caruso 27 +s, 33 -s for -6 On ice together, they're -7 each, from 33 goals scored or conceded. +13 scored and -20 conceded. Almost all of their playing together has been done this calendar year, only 4 goals (2 scored, 2 conceded) were recorded when on ice together in 2023. Prior to that it looks like Caruso most often played with Ryczek, and Neill with Tetlow and Despres.
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Post by bobness on Mar 27, 2024 13:20:29 GMT
Corsi has much, much more relevance than plus/minus. There are the stats out there, (e.g.) Joe Mcciag on twitter seems to have a handle on all kinds of numbers that aren't publicly available (including icetime split by manpower and hits) but I assume that costs money. And given some of the shot plots and icetime stats I've seen so far, they could do with a bit of work to get them a little tighter before we start on other more esoteric things. (e.g. TOI for the last Steelers game. Panthers took 1 minor all game, which was unconverted, so total TOI should be 298 minutes exactly. (5 skaters, for 60 minutes, less 2 minutes, plus nothing for goalie pulled time.) Total TOI per player adds to 295 minutes and 14 seconds. And McKenzie was on for at least 2 shifts vs Flames (IIRC) recently and yet went un-noticed by the TOI recorders. Lunsjo's goal vs Steelers was scored from the left face off dot, virtually, but is recorded as from inside the right circle, SW of the dot. I'm very grateful for what I can get, don't get me wrong, though.
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Post by bobness on Mar 27, 2024 13:07:09 GMT
Indeed. Some of the backchecking this year has been, erm, sub-optimal, I'd venture... Interestingly, the forwards who I see busting a gut shift after shift in all areas of the ice generally aren't the ones with poor +/-. I wonder...
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Post by bobness on Mar 27, 2024 11:36:13 GMT
Corsi has much, much more relevance than plus/minus. I’ll be happy for the EIHL to make Corsi available. 👍
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Post by bobness on Mar 27, 2024 10:47:42 GMT
Had the opportunity to upgrade to Farmer/Boxill in 13/14, and did so. Decisions like that are made in sport all the time. IIWII. Heart and soul yes, but the facts are that 70 league, cup and playoff games passed without a single goal that season. I'm sure you'd be all over a player with those kind of stats these days, no matter how much he grafted?
And I don't think anyone has "sacked" Kelsall yet?
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Post by bobness on Mar 27, 2024 9:37:51 GMT
Kelsall sometimes gets an unfair slating and I'm not sure why. He isn't a 'goalscorer' but can certainly score when given the opportunity, he works hard on practically every shift, he's a great utility player, he's played what seems like a 50/50 split between forward and defence this season, and hasn't looked out of place in either position. He sticks up for his teammates when something happens like that (he shouldn't need to, we should have tougher players but thats another discussion) however having the heart to do that gets my respect. He also occasionally throws the odd solid hit himself which, for his size, is again impressive. Genuinely think he'd get into any team in the EIHL with what he brings. Very lucky to have him. 100% agree, he's the kind of player any team would be fortunate to have, for all those reasons. Perennially under-rated.
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Post by bobness on Mar 27, 2024 7:49:10 GMT
Lol. Sign him up ! Far better than these so called “studs” like Neill on minus 20. 🤣 You’re getting far too hung up on +/- stats. Yo me it’s the most pointless stat as it provides absolutely no context to anything. It’s as pointless as xG is in football You can argue all day about it. At the end of the day, a simple indicator of the relative “scoriness” of a player while participating in the game is useful, if only as a start point. Yes it does depend in the team in general and the team mates, but you can also look at it within a team. There’s a reason Otto is a positive and Lemay has the worst record in the league, whilst being on the same team. That will be something I look at when the season is done. You can do all sorts of more complicated things like Corsi per 60 and all that, and can tie yourself in knots (like the offside rule in football, which was blunt, but simple, so had to be revised, now your backside can put you offside…) so but fundamentally, you want to know, in stats, what happens in the game when they are actually out there, on ice? Raw +/- is the start of that journey. Like when Panthers had Andy Sertich as “Most consistent player” at the year end awards when I started my +/- stattage when the league didn’t. Most consistently scored on, it turns out. Other opinions are available.
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Post by bobness on Mar 26, 2024 22:02:06 GMT
So he must’ve been +5 in the 13 games before that. (He’s -1 from 18 now) I’ll take +20ish for the year. 👍🤣
It all depends where you draw the line…
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Post by bobness on Mar 26, 2024 20:38:37 GMT
The really hot team are currently Storm, 23 out of the last 26 available points, Weninger's stats in that run are 95.07SP%, 1.79 GAA. Last 2 games are against them. Gulp. By the last two games though Bob the Storm could have nothing left to play for other than possibly whether they are 4th or 5th. Are you putting a tenner on Wenninger being in Belfast next year or Sheffield if Greenfield didn’t come back ? Have you seen Besko’s dramatic drop off this year in Belfast,he’s miles behind Whistle,a worse Svs % than even Rok. Maybe. Of course I have. No-one called Besko's drop off, though, did they? Same as no-one called Weninger as being the boss goalie in a league where his team were predicted by the "experts" to be basically fighting for a play off spot. It can be a very unpredictable sport.
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Post by bobness on Mar 26, 2024 20:33:55 GMT
Just been having a look at Tetlow's detailed stats, being as you're so keen on his +/-. If you rank all current team skaters, guess who's the top of the pile of defencemen for "net +/- per 60 minutes played"? (This is a useful proxy for "effect on the game" as it were.) Now I know what you'll say, but these are the facts as they are. It doesn’t say much for the rest of the defence does it if he’s top of the pile. However Tetlow is likely to spend a fair chunk of his time playing against the oppositions 3rd or 4th line. I still wouldn’t sign him though unless he’s very very cheap. Whilst we’re looking at players +\- stats have you seen Lemay ? He’s now at minus 31, by far the worst in the whole league,good lord there are only about four who are even over minus 20. That’s a shockingly bad stat ! I did know that's what you'd say. Not sure there's much actual evidence for that, though, he's been logging big minutes lately, so likely to be out in all weathers. He played the same (bar a second) as Depres in Sheffield last week. Lemay is an outlier, he's Clarkey-esque. Second in the league for powerplay gaols, but defensively a nightmare, it seems. I've got him as -22 in 2024 alone.
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Post by bobness on Mar 26, 2024 17:56:47 GMT
The really hot team are currently Storm, 23 out of the last 26 available points, Weninger's stats in that run are 95.07SP%, 1.79 GAA. Last 2 games are against them. Gulp.
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Post by bobness on Mar 26, 2024 16:09:25 GMT
Same as 3 others. Your point? Despite being -6 in the last 4 games (all of which have been short (if not very short) benched on D, all regulation losses) he's still only -1 for the season. Far better than some shall we say higher profile members of the D. I don't see you on here singing his praises when he was +3 vs Flames the other night, or even vs the Clan, in a 9-3, loss when Despres was -4? I'm sensing an agenda... Yes an agenda,I don’t think Tetlow will ever be good enough whilst ever he’s got a hole in his bottom. He’s a low budget EIHL team player at best who shouldn’t be in an arena team and Panthers need to get rid of him, then spend some money and replace him with a better Brit. I’d even play a Brit short if necessary rather than re sign him and put Tetlow’s money in the import pot. Just been having a look at Tetlow's detailed stats, being as you're so keen on his +/-. If you rank all current team skaters, guess who's the top of the pile of defencemen for "net +/- per 60 minutes played"? (This is a useful proxy for "effect on the game" as it were.) Now I know what you'll say, but these are the facts as they are.
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Post by bobness on Mar 25, 2024 20:31:43 GMT
Fair play to Kelsall for stepping in after the hit on McGurty, even though he got a bit of a pasting. You don't mess with our dmen ! Thought it was a bit harsh to even give him a penalty at all. Not sure he even threw a punch. But yes, 100% fair play to him for stepping up. The kind of team mate players love.
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Post by bobness on Mar 25, 2024 16:55:06 GMT
"There was chances in overtime but no goals, and it was then no surprise when the shootout also went the distance, too *-* Cardiff needed Cole Sanford to tie it in Round 8 to cancel out Alexander Lunsjo's goal in the third. Eventually, in Round 7, Lunsjo missed and Crandall converted to earn Sheffield the extra point."
I can see 3 actual errors and 3 grammatical clunkers in those 2 sentences. That's a top effort.
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Post by bobness on Mar 25, 2024 16:12:24 GMT
Rather sadly, the rotund female walks up to the mic and clears her throat... She's not singing yet though. 6 points adrift with 10 to play for, and that assumes none of our rivals register another point. Never gonna happen. We are where we are on merit. There’s reasons, but ultimately it’s season over. I just hope we quickly decide on who the coach / GM will be quickly so we can start work on retaining/ attracting new players for next season. That’s one for another thread though! Until it's mathematically impossible, there is still some hope. Million to one shots come in once in a while Not that I'm confident at all that we can actually do it, and it's a hell of a long shot, but as it stands, hope springs eternal. As the great poet L. Kravitz opined, it ain't over 'til... Doesn't make me a happy clapper, but 3.4 seconds was enough time once upon a time.
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Post by bobness on Mar 25, 2024 14:22:10 GMT
13/16/19 games from being "ever present", respectively. And no more than 2 at the same time, although interestingly, Whistle has never been reported as being "reactivated", from being placed on IR on 27 December, but came back to play 2nd February. Also interestingly, Zach Vinnell was intially signed as cover for Jones (9 Dec), then "reallocated" to Whistle (19 Jan), then finally signed as a replacement for Kielly (19 Feb, Kielly having left the Steelers 22 November) so he's played all that time without counting as a roster spot, in 3 different guises. Did someone say "farce"? Steelers have played 49 games, and have 14 players with 44 or more games. Panthers have also played 49, but only 9 with 44+ games. I'm actually surprised it's that many. Panthers have picked from an injury free full squad for 3 (yes, three) games this season, and not since 15 October. And for that game, Henbrant was suspended. So it's only really 2 games all season that Panthers have had a full roster available for selection. That's not posted as any kind of "excuse", just a fact. I wonder what other teams have been like. It's been a bad season for injuries pretty much across the league. Belfast have the usual excellent roster but have been absolutely floored by injuries According to EP, Giants haven't had a single ever-present player this season. That said, they have signed about 37 imports... I'm joking, it's only been 24.
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Post by bobness on Mar 25, 2024 12:48:21 GMT
Not sure I agree. Steelers don't have anyone with the pedigree of AJ, Caruso or Despres (not a single NHL game on their roster), and don't really have anyone for me, who screams "ridiculously expensive player" or "too good for this league". They've got a roster of all kinds of players with CVs very like Panthers have had in the last few years. Last seasons in Denmark, Finland, Sweden, ECHL etc. Balmas was a great pick up late in the day, he's been a difference maker, as has the "past it" Vallerand. They've built a core of returnees (Neumann, Nevalainen, Ciampini, Allen, Greenfield) and improved the other spots. The difference is, they've all "fired" this year. Not a single dud on their roster. Scoring from all areas, a great D and the best netminder in the league. And they've been largely injury free. That makes a huge difference too. They took us apart on the 27th December, they were superb, the best visiting EIHL performance I've ever seen. You can be bitter all you like, they've been the best team all year. You’re spot on there Bob. 👍 Although they did lose Neumann,Jones and Whistle to injuries each for a good while. 13/16/19 games from being "ever present", respectively. And no more than 2 at the same time, although interestingly, Whistle has never been reported as being "reactivated", from being placed on IR on 27 December, but came back to play 2nd February. Also interestingly, Zach Vinnell was intially signed as cover for Jones (9 Dec), then "reallocated" to Whistle (19 Jan), then finally signed as a replacement for Kielly (19 Feb, Kielly having left the Steelers 22 November) so he's played all that time without counting as a roster spot, in 3 different guises. Did someone say "farce"? Steelers have played 49 games, and have 14 players with 44 or more games. Panthers have also played 49, but only 9 with 44+ games. I'm actually surprised it's that many. Panthers have picked from an injury free full squad for 3 (yes, three) games this season, and not since 15 October. And for that game, Henbrant was suspended. So it's only really 2 games all season that Panthers have had a full roster available for selection. That's not posted as any kind of "excuse", just a fact. I wonder what other teams have been like.
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