Lawman
Pat Casey
Stretford End King
Posts: 237
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Post by Lawman on Aug 10, 2008 11:05:35 GMT
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Post by rangers on Aug 10, 2008 11:32:44 GMT
Why a team of goons? Why great fun - it is not there for fun. The Haka is a very important thing for New Zealanders, it has genuine meaning, it is not just a funny dance. At one Ireland game the PA system continued to play music over the Haka - showing a complete lack of respect - much like the idiots (90% of who are england fans) who boo it at rugby games. Incindently, a piece on New Zealand hockey on Nhl.com www.nhl.com/nhl/app/?service=page&page=NewsPage&articleid=379299
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Lawman
Pat Casey
Stretford End King
Posts: 237
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Post by Lawman on Aug 10, 2008 11:40:24 GMT
For the intimidation factor, after all it's a tribal ritual used before they went into battle to strike fear into their enemies.
i posted it as a hypothetical situation for a bit of harmless fun during the off season, not to take the micheal out of NZ
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Post by rangers on Aug 10, 2008 11:58:16 GMT
Sorry, but a lot of people in this country do not respect the Haka. For me, when performed well, it is one of the greatest things in sports (and when performed outside sport, it is spine tingling) yet some people treat it like a joke.
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Post by quoththeraven on Aug 10, 2008 13:39:43 GMT
Additionally one of the players from last season's ENIHL Northern Conference and National Championship winning Nottingham Lions roster, Lyle Idoine, is from New Zealand.
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Post by Peacock on Aug 10, 2008 14:40:38 GMT
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Post by rangers on Aug 10, 2008 14:54:02 GMT
More england fans than any other nation do. Maybe not 90%, but there are plenty of idiots there who do. I dont mind singing over it, which since people jumped on the jonny bandwagon there seems to be more of, but there are still plenty of 'fans' who boo it.
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Higgy
Les Strongman
Posts: 5,293
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Post by Higgy on Aug 10, 2008 17:17:40 GMT
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Post by spik on Aug 10, 2008 17:47:07 GMT
Exactly.......Well done the French.
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LUFC
Ashley Tait
Game On!
Posts: 1,819
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Post by LUFC on Aug 10, 2008 18:12:58 GMT
The best moment in rugby for Haka's was when the men from the isle of tongo did it back to them! And here it is Clickyand a rugby league one between Samoa and Tonga Clicky again
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Post by rangers on Aug 10, 2008 18:24:15 GMT
It was Tonga in 99 world cup, i think you are thinking of, and their version is called the 'Sipi Tau'
Teams should stand up to the Haka (within reason). Although not many did when Tana was leading it....
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LUFC
Ashley Tait
Game On!
Posts: 1,819
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Post by LUFC on Aug 10, 2008 18:28:22 GMT
Some history and a rough translation for you.
Ka mate Ka mate It is death It is death
Ka ora Ka ora It is life It is life
Ka mate Ka mate It is death It is death
Ka ora Ka ora It is life It is life
Tenei Te Tangata Puhuruhuru This is the hairy man
Nana i tiki mai whakawhiti te ra Who caused the sun to shine again for me
Upane Upane Up the ladder Up the ladder
Upane Kaupane Up to the top
Whiti te ra The sun shines!
The haka is a war dance. The words are chanted loudly (shouted) in a menacing way accompanied by arm actions and foot stamping. A haka was traditionally performed before charging into battle.
The Maori pronunciation is basically one vowel per syllable, with the vowels having the European rather than English sound. The `wh' is aspirated almost like an `f' (f is good enough for most people).
As for what it all means, about 140 years ago, a particularly notorious warlike chief named Te Rauparaha of the Ngati Toa tribe (based just North of present day Wellington), was being chased by his enemies. He hid in a kumara pit (the local sweet potato, only much better) and waited in the dark for his pursuers to find him. He heard sounds above and thought he was done for when the top of the pit was opened up and sunshine flooded in. He was blinded and struggled to see those about to slay him, when his sight cleared and he instead saw the hairy legs of the local chief (reputed to have been exceptionally hirsute) who had hid him. Te Rauparaha is said to have jumped from the pit and performed this haka on the spot, so happy was he to have escaped. Undoubtedly, he also had in his mind to do a little pursuing of his own --- Te Rauparaha being that way inclined was he.
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Post by Peacock on Aug 10, 2008 20:11:00 GMT
Teams should stand up to the Haka (within reason). Although not many did when Tana was leading it.... Richard Cockerill was fined for doing just that when he went nose to nose with Norm Hewitt
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Post by Alf Garnett on Aug 10, 2008 20:44:17 GMT
More england fans than any other nation do. Maybe not 90%, but there are plenty of idiots there who do boo it. I think that England is the only country classless enought o boo its' vistors national anthem, certainly the football 'fans' do. And then they have the gall to proclaim that the rest of the world hates us.......... I wonder why
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Post by rangers on Aug 10, 2008 21:03:31 GMT
Teams should stand up to the Haka (within reason). Although not many did when Tana was leading it.... Richard Cockerill was fined for doing just that when he went nose to nose with Norm Hewitt That was the idiot i was trying to think of earlier.
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Post by Peacock on Aug 11, 2008 0:06:31 GMT
I think that England is the only country classless enought o boo its' vistors national anthem, certainly the football 'fans' do. Go to any inter-South American game and this happens. It's even started creeping into Canada v US NHL games. Whilst I hate everything about UK yob culture, we are by no means alone when it comes to being classless at sporting events. Rangers, I don't follow your reasoning . On one hand you say but then say What Cockerill did was no more confrontational than the French in RWC 07 or Tonga in RWC 99 or the Irish 'arrowhead' in 97 or when Campese carried on warming up during the Haka. The ultimate disrespect though was the Welsh RFU in 06 when the AB's had to do the HAka in the dressing room.
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Post by ottawa on Aug 11, 2008 0:57:27 GMT
I think that England is the only country classless enought o boo its' vistors national anthem, certainly the football 'fans' do. Go to any inter-South American game and this happens. It's even started creeping into Canada v US NHL games. Whilst I hate everything about UK yob culture, we are by no means alone when it comes to being classless at sporting events. Rangers, I don't follow your reasoning . On one hand you say but then say What Cockerill did was no more confrontational than the French in RWC 07 or Tonga in RWC 99 or the Irish 'arrowhead' in 97 or when Campese carried on warming up during the Haka. [glow=red,2,300]The ultimate disrespect though was the Welsh RFU in 06 when the AB's had to do the HAka in the dressing room.[/glow] There is 'slightly' more to that situation mate. The Haka, is normally carried out after the national anthems. I regularly attend WRU games in Cardiff (I have tickets for WALES v All Blacks again on November 22nd) & it's also become a tradition for Wales, to sing 'Bred in Heaven' after the usual anthems. The Kiwis stated at that particular time that ''No...you've already sang your anthem & your not singing that as well'' so the WRU said ''You've already sang your anthem too...so you can't so the haka' It was a BIG dissapointment at the time, & the AB's said they would NEVER do the Haka in Cardiff again. I recently wrote to them (via e-mail) as I would still love to see it performed live (Which I have yet to see), to ask them about their current stance on performing it again in Cardiff. I got a sweet reply from the president of the AB's who said they hoped to be able to perform it again on the field this November.
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Post by Peacock on Aug 11, 2008 6:51:10 GMT
There is 'slightly' more to that situation mate. The Haka, is normally carried out after the national anthems. I regularly attend WRU games in Cardiff (I have tickets for WALES v All Blacks again on November 22nd) & it's also become a tradition for Wales, to sing 'Bred in Heaven' after the usual anthems. The Kiwis stated at that particular time that ''No...you've already sang your anthem & your not singing that as well'' so the WRU said ''You've already sang your anthem too...so you can't so the haka' It was a BIG dissapointment at the time, & the AB's said they would NEVER do the Haka in Cardiff again. I recently wrote to them (via e-mail) as I would still love to see it performed live (Which I have yet to see), to ask them about their current stance on performing it again in Cardiff. I got a sweet reply from the president of the AB's who said they hoped to be able to perform it again on the field this November. As I understand it in 2005 the All Blacks agreed to a request from the Welsh Rugby Union to repeat the sequence of events from the original match in 1905. For the November 2006 test, the WRU demanded a repeat of this sequence, which the AB's refused.
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Post by rangers on Aug 11, 2008 7:09:32 GMT
Standing nose to nose during the haka is very different to what the French did - the french stood up to it, but gave space. What cockerill did (on his own) was pure arrogance and showed a complete lack of respect to the tradition of the game and NZ. The Tonga situatuion was completely different, and was quite fantastic - I think everyone involved in the sport (with the possible exception of cockerill) would agree about that. I have to admit i cant remember the arrowhead, and if campo was ignoring the haka, then it must have got to him-mind game won, even if we might have gone on to lose the match!
I thought the Wales match fiasco was over which order the Haka and the singing took place. We did perfrom the haka in cardiff last time we played there.
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Post by texpef on Aug 11, 2008 7:37:56 GMT
ahh so it becomes clear "we did perform the haka in cardiff", kind of implies a lack of impartiality and you then describes the english as a bunch of yobs... Isnt that a double standard? which to be honest i take exception to. As for the haka why hand your oponent an advantage of any type in this case psychological one, if i was coach i would get my players to ignore it too its whole concept is to intimidate why let them? Again this to me is a culture of nicey nicey (like the NIC now) and alot of fans are calling for the atmosphere at the old place (this was certainly not a culture of nicey nicey, just ask moran about the away teams toilets!!! )...
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Post by rangers on Aug 11, 2008 7:54:30 GMT
I never claimed to be impartial. I despise all things to do with the England rugby team - and that hatred started with the cockerill incident.
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Post by ottawa on Aug 11, 2008 8:14:32 GMT
The haka was performed ONLY in the dressing room last time the AB's visited. The 'fiasco' was a 50/50 blame thing & to blame the whole thing on the Welsh is unfair, it seems both party's were chucking teddy out of the pram. The last game was in Cardiff, November 2006 & that's when the supposed 'fiasco' happened. HERE is a link to the games played between the two sides.
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Post by ottawa on Aug 11, 2008 8:16:52 GMT
Texpef...the Haka is a legendary thing, & BIG highlight of both sets of fans, I doubt it really unsettles the oposistion. I am certainly looking forward to hopefully seeing it live on the pitch, when I see the game in Cardiff in November.
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Post by spik on Aug 11, 2008 9:29:42 GMT
I can see where Tex is coming from though.I have always thought that players were being asked to stand still whilst the 'Haka' is being done. Fair enough let it happen but why do the opposing team have to stand afore them? Can it not be done whilst the opposition are in there sights, limbering up. Times change and perhaps the opposition were just thinking the same and decided to rebel against the 'Haka', thus all the elements have occured as described.
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Post by ted on Aug 11, 2008 10:26:08 GMT
Standing nose to nose during the haka is very different to what the French did - the french stood up to it, but gave space. What cockerill did (on his own) was pure arrogance and showed a complete lack of respect to the tradition of the game and NZ. The Tonga situatuion was completely different, and was quite fantastic - I think everyone involved in the sport (with the possible exception of cockerill) would agree about that. I have to admit i cant remember the arrowhead, and if campo was ignoring the haka, then it must have got to him-mind game won, even if we might have gone on to lose the match! I thought the Wales match fiasco was over which order the Haka and the singing took place. We did perfrom the haka in cardiff last time we played there. So its ok to stand up to it... from a respectful distance.... To me that says 'yea we arent really that bothered but bothered enough to stay away' Their Haka is a tribal dance designed to intimidate... basically you're saying that because its tradition people arent allowed to show they arent intimidated incase it offends the ABs? You face the ABs and you remember the Haka, you face the ABs and one of your team goes and stands nose to nose, you remember your teammate.... intimidation lost....
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