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Post by rangers on Aug 11, 2008 10:58:06 GMT
Not sure what any of this has to do with hockey, but still....
Lets face it, no-one is intimidated by the haka anymore. Its all about tradition, and thats it, and thats what makes the ABs the team to beat, even if this is by far the worst NZ team for generations(quite what that makes england, who were slaughted twice by us I dont know...) After constantly choking in the big games, it certainly isn't on pitch performance.
The only reason for getting in the faces of the ABs as they perform the Haka is to try and make a name for yourself, when in reality all you do is look stupid.
People should respect the Haka as a great tradition when there are not that many in sport anymore.
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Post by ottawa on Aug 11, 2008 11:06:20 GMT
Not sure what any of this has to do with hockey, but still.... Lets face it, no-one is intimidated by the haka anymore. Its all about tradition, and thats it, and thats what makes the ABs the team to beat, even if this is by far the worst NZ team for generations(quite what that makes england, who were slaughted twice by us I dont know...) After constantly choking in the big games, it certainly isn't on pitch performance. The only reason for getting in the faces of the ABs as they perform the Haka is to try and make a name for yourself, when in reality all you do is look stupid. [glow=red,2,300]People should respect the Haka as a great tradition when there are not that many in sport anymore[/glow]. agreed.
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Post by heja on Aug 11, 2008 11:52:46 GMT
Standing nose to nose during the haka is very different to what the French did - the french stood up to it, but gave space. What cockerill did (on his own) was pure arrogance and showed a complete lack of respect to the tradition of the game and NZ. The Tonga situatuion was completely different, and was quite fantastic - I think everyone involved in the sport (with the possible exception of cockerill) would agree about that. I have to admit i cant remember the arrowhead, and if campo was ignoring the haka, then it must have got to him-mind game won, even if we might have gone on to lose the match! I thought the Wales match fiasco was over which order the Haka and the singing took place. We did perfrom the haka in cardiff last time we played there. what are you on about, the haka is there to intimidate the opponent, if you go nose to nose with the guy doing it, it is just showing that you are not intimidated at all buy it and getting one up on the opposition.
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Post by rangers on Aug 11, 2008 12:20:54 GMT
Typical English attitude. Funny how no other countires, who actually have a respect for the game and it's traditions, have ever let any of their players do that. Why not go and do it during the national anthem - I'm sure BO'D would love someone to do that halfway through Ireland's Call. I'll repeat my point again. All going nose to nose with a guy doing the Haka does is show lack of respect. It doesnt get you one up on the ABs, it isnt big, and it isnt clever.
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Post by ottawa on Aug 11, 2008 12:49:42 GMT
Standing nose to nose during the haka is very different to what the French did - the french stood up to it, but gave space. What cockerill did (on his own) was pure arrogance and showed a complete lack of respect to the tradition of the game and NZ. The Tonga situatuion was completely different, and was quite fantastic - I think everyone involved in the sport (with the possible exception of cockerill) would agree about that. I have to admit i cant remember the arrowhead, and if campo was ignoring the haka, then it must have got to him-mind game won, even if we might have gone on to lose the match! I thought the Wales match fiasco was over which order the Haka and the singing took place. We did perfrom the haka in cardiff last time we played there. what are you on about, the haka is there to intimidate the opponent, if you go nose to nose with the guy doing it, it is just showing that you are not intimidated at all buy it and getting one up on the opposition. What are you on about Tim! Maybe the origins of sporting teams doing the haka was to intimidate, but I doubt any hard nosed rugby player is that 'upset' by it now (if he is..then he's a bit of big girls blouse). It's a strong tradition & one that 99.9% of all rugby fans & indeed players look forward to seeing
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Post by killercarlson on Aug 11, 2008 13:59:27 GMT
what are you on about, the haka is there to intimidate the opponent, if you go nose to nose with the guy doing it, it is just showing that you are not intimidated at all buy it and getting one up on the opposition. What are you on about Tim! Maybe the origins of sporting teams doing the haka was to intimidate, but I doubt any hard nosed rugby player is that 'upset' by it now (if he is..then he's a bit of big girls blouse). It's a strong tradition & one that 99.9% of all rugby fans & indeed players look forward to seeing I think Richard Cockerill should have Morris danced in response - that would have showed em....
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matt44
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Post by matt44 on Aug 11, 2008 15:10:29 GMT
I dont see all the fuss if an opposing team ignores the haka or does something back.
Its an intimidation attempt that is negated if the opposition ignores it or mocks it. Gamesmanship and nothing more.
I find it funny & insulting to see caucasian NZ players doing it too, It would be like the USA team doing a native american war dance before a game. Go into a country, more or less wipe the natives out and then adopt their pre-war dance.
Weird.
And has anyone got a video of the "cockerhill" incident as I have no idea what happened.
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Post by Peacock on Aug 11, 2008 17:35:07 GMT
Typical English attitude. Funny how no other countires, who actually have a respect for the game and it's traditions, have ever let any of their players do that. Really? I think you've let your self-confessed hatred of English Rugby blind you to the facts.
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Post by rangers on Aug 11, 2008 18:13:03 GMT
Typical English attitude. Funny how no other countires, who actually have a respect for the game and it's traditions, have ever let any of their players do that. Really? I think you've let your self-confessed hatred of English Rugby blind you to the facts. why let the facts get in the way of a good story!
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Post by pantherjimbob on Aug 12, 2008 8:42:15 GMT
I find it funny & insulting to see caucasian NZ players doing it too so i can pretty much say i find it funny and insulting for black or muslim english people to be singing the english national anthem?
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MP
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Post by MP on Aug 12, 2008 8:56:03 GMT
Didn't England do similar some years back - possibly in a southern hemisphere game? I seem to remember the whole team linking arms and slowly advancing up to the halfway line as the Haka progressed. A good response I thought - all added to the theatre of the event and can send out a subliminal message too.
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Doughnut
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Post by Doughnut on Aug 12, 2008 8:58:23 GMT
Really? I think you've let your self-confessed hatred of English Rugby blind you to the facts. why let the facts get in the way of a good story! Which facts and what good story? What did Cockerill actually do? Was it worse than what the Irish did? Was it in fact any different? Did he actually stop the AB's from performing the Haka or did he just stand there and look at them? It seems laughable to me that someone could decide to have a "hatred" and to "despise all things to do with the England rugby team" as a result of one player standing too close to an AB 11 years ago and yet happily support a team with Andre Payette in it.
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matt44
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Post by matt44 on Aug 12, 2008 9:16:35 GMT
I find it funny & insulting to see caucasian NZ players doing it too so i can pretty much say i find it funny and insulting for black or muslim english people to be singing the english national anthem? No, as the entire history between the nations in question is different.
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matt44
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Post by matt44 on Aug 12, 2008 9:17:14 GMT
why let the facts get in the way of a good story! Which facts and what good story? What did Cockerill actually do? Was it worse than what the Irish did? Was it in fact any different? Did he actually stop the AB's from performing the Haka or did he just stand there and look at them? It seems laughable to me that someone could decide to have a "hatred" and to "despise all things to do with the England rugby team" as a result of one player standing too close to an AB 11 years ago and yet happily support a team with Andre Payette in it. Haha, bang on the money
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Post by rangers on Aug 12, 2008 9:56:27 GMT
Its not just that incident - it is a wide variety of things - the style of rugby they play - forward dominated (zzzzzzzzz) and a too bigger reliance on kicking (zzzzzzzzz), the pure arrogance of people like Woodwood, Dallaglio and Johnson (to name the three biggest - but not only - offenders), the way that as world champions, they did nothing to move the sport forward at all, and the obsession with jonny bloody wilkinson, who has never even been the best player for england, let alone the world he cant tackle, and he has as much imagination as a caravan side. He has made drop goals, which in the main used to only be used in the last few minutes more common than a try. And the sheep that are england fans treat them like a try, even in the first few minutes. I just thank god we have Danny Carter, not someone like sicknote. (for what its worth, my opinions on Lomu were exactly the same. Both are one trick ponies, who were massivly over hyped).
I know you will all say it is just bitterness after we choke every 4 years, but it isnt. its an honest opinion.
To be fair I have been supporting the Vipers since they were formed, and have supported them through thick and thin, and we are not having the payette debate again. Its been done to death.
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Post by ottawa on Aug 12, 2008 9:59:57 GMT
why let the facts get in the way of a good story! Which facts and what good story? What did Cockerill actually do? Was it worse than what the Irish did? Was it in fact any different? Did he actually stop the AB's from performing the Haka or did he just stand there and look at them? It seems laughable to me that someone could decide to have a "hatred" and to "despise all things to do with the England rugby team" as a result of one player standing too close to an AB 11 years ago and yet happily support a team with Andre Payette in it. Like we supported a team with Barry Nieckar in it?
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Doughnut
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Post by Doughnut on Aug 12, 2008 10:07:34 GMT
Which facts and what good story? What did Cockerill actually do? Was it worse than what the Irish did? Was it in fact any different? Did he actually stop the AB's from performing the Haka or did he just stand there and look at them? It seems laughable to me that someone could decide to have a "hatred" and to "despise all things to do with the England rugby team" as a result of one player standing too close to an AB 11 years ago and yet happily support a team with Andre Payette in it. Like we supported a team with Barry Nieckar in it? I never saw Nieckar - one season before my time. In any case, it'd take nothing from my point as I see no problem with someone standing up to the Haka without physically interfering with it. Having said that, I do think teams should stick to their own half until kick off.
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Post by ginger on Aug 12, 2008 12:25:33 GMT
Rangers - Wilko cant tackle? Ever watched the guy play?? One of the best tackling No. 10's I have ever seen!
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Post by rangers on Aug 12, 2008 14:53:44 GMT
His tackling technique is all wrong, which is why he has injured his shoulders. He also thinks his job is to go around tackling big back row forwards. It isnt. thats how you get injured every 5 minutes.
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Post by ginger on Aug 12, 2008 15:09:55 GMT
Maybe not usually his job, but you have to pick up what is in your channel. Anyway this is going off topic.
The Haka is tradition, but sorry I dont think there is anything wrong with standing up to it. So Cockerill got in their face. How many times during a game of Rugby, does a player try to intimidate another and the other just stands his ground?
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sunbeam
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Post by sunbeam on Aug 12, 2008 17:27:58 GMT
The Haka is great fun. Love it. Loved what Tonga and the French did too. Hopefully they'll be some good 'performances' by the island nations before the Rugby World Cup later this year.
I'm sure the NFL scouts shall be watching the games with interest. There's some good players to be had there!
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Post by ottawa on Nov 13, 2008 23:54:56 GMT
I am lucky that I have tickets to see WALES v New Zealand, in Cardiff, on November 22nd. THIS should make things even more interesting!
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Post by rangers on Nov 14, 2008 8:39:40 GMT
Should be a great game - hopefully set the All Blacks on the way to Twikkers still on the verge of a 'Slam.
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Post by rangers on Nov 23, 2008 1:00:49 GMT
What Wales did - a bit of class. How to stand up to the Haka. None of this nose to nose stuff. Wales showed their class in their style of play, as well as respecting tradition. It will be interesting to see how England and Twikenham do next week. Lets just say that I'm not holding my breath on either count.
And well done to the Blacks on a frankly awesome second half, after a very difficult first.
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Doughnut
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Post by Doughnut on Nov 24, 2008 9:53:04 GMT
I think the English players should respond to the Haka by pulling hankies out and doing a bit of traditional morris dancing.
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