Cardiff future in doubt!! AGAIN???

[Milkman™]

gazzathedevil said:

The problem with that is Jono is that at the moment osaer and Prpich have serious injuries and have to be paid.

Insurance covers that surely?

Or is it the same old same old (in this league) of under insured players plying their trade, risking life and limb for cash payments in envelopes on the bus home.

I would have expected more from an ex player as GM

[Lyn]

We will go to the game as we do most times but as it saysi n the article, the view is apalling and it's an awful long journey to see very little.

[gazzathedevil]

therapy said:

gazzathedevil said:

The problem with that is Jono is that at the moment osaer and Prpich have serious injuries and have to be paid.

Insurance covers that surely?

Or is it the same old same old (in this league) of under insured players plying their trade, risking life and limb for cash payments in envelopes on the bus home.

I would have expected more from an ex player as GM

I am purely guessing that his insurence covers his operations (which he is about to have his second of this week)

But doesnt cover his loss of earnings which the Devils are taking care of.

either way mike Prpich and Phil Osaer have been treated nothing but well the way it should be.

[jmc]

Hope Cardiff manage to get the money, they've always had decent teams.
Didn't one of the Manic Street Preachers have Cardiff jersey when they went on tour? I don't they'll go under. Maybe get Rick Strang to sort something out like he planned with the Bison eariler in the year. Not been a good year off the ice for British ice hockey, firstly with Basingstoke, then the Bees got saved in the 11th hour, now Cardiff.

[Mark]

Good luck to Cardiff Devils,I'd hate to see them wind up. The news article says Devils average 1000 paying customers per game. What was the average in the WNIR?

[NickThePanther44]

this is very sad news. Cardiff are a brilliant organization and a real gem of our league, to lose them would be a major blow on any chances of the Elite moving forward. the fact Cardiff council are screwing them is an absolute disgrace. i hope there's a time when planet ice don't have such a stranglehold on rinks and actually have decent competition, then the way they've treated teams will come back and haunt them

all the best Gazza, keep us informed chap

[pantherskatie]

Noooooooo!! Cardiff always have and probably always will be my second team so this news really saddens me Really hope they manage to raise the cash...the league wouldn't be the same without u guys. If all that has been said is true about Planet Ice and the local council then shame on them..the Devils are probably the most successful sporting team in Cardiff and therefore surely they should be promoted and recognised for that?!

[Milkman™]

mark said:

Good luck to Cardiff Devils,I'd hate to see them wind up. The news article says Devils average 1000 paying customers per game. What was the average in the WNIR?

As I posted when the basingstoke went belly up, 1000 is not a lot for a top class sporting team.

How a team can expect to sustain Elite league costs on a top line income of around 10k a week is beyond me.

Sorry Gazza, but 2 players does not make a team, I think this is yet another case of teams setting their goals way to high, maybe the lower leagues would have been more relastic for your team.

It says a lot when your landlord can get more income from £4.50 public skating sessions than it can from your goodselves.

FYI the current rent for a Panthers game at the NIC is in excess of 14k

[gazzathedevil]

therapy said:

mark said:

Good luck to Cardiff Devils,I'd hate to see them wind up. The news article says Devils average 1000 paying customers per game. What was the average in the WNIR?

As I posted when the basingstoke went belly up, 1000 is not a lot for a top class sporting team.

How a team can expect to sustain Elite league costs on a top line income of around 10k a week is beyond me.

Sorry Gazza, but 2 players does not make a team, I think this is yet another case of teams setting their goals way to high, maybe the lower leagues would have been more relastic for your team.

It says a lot when your landlord can get more income from £4.50 public skating sessions than it can from your goodselves.

FYI the current rent for a Panthers game at the NIC is in excess of 14k

I'll have to point you in the direction of the article then


We were promised 30k, this went into the budget. Now this 30k may have been written into a contract and maybe this company is now bust? either way the Devils arent stupid enough to think that the 30k wasnt going to come to us.


Thus with that 30k we were in budget and could compete in the elite league which we have done up until this season. we have also a lot of the time hit the 1,250 projected figure. Just not consistantly htis is largely due imo to the location of the rink which brings me very kindly on to my next point.


The NIC charging 14k is a staggering amount, however you get a first class view, with first class comfortable seating in a nice brand spanking new clean venue. With a perfect view of the ice as it was custom built to do so. Thus you probably cover your 14k (in many cases such as sheffield on the weekend smash through it!) because its a win win, you have the facilities to sell more seats.


i dont get the landlord thing and to be honest i dont think you can ever even attempt to simplify the relationship between PI and The Devils, PI i understand have tried to buy us twice for reasons i cant fathom considering in mike Petrious own words 'I dont care about ice hockey' Go figure!



so we didnt set our goals to high just look at our signings we didnt go out and get a marquee brit, we brought back a lot of players from last season who knew our plight, we are running iwth a player/coach to cut costs, a lot of our brits are local to save on housing. Matt Petriko in his own words took a pay cut this season, two of our players are at uni. So dont throw the over spending thing at us Milkman we did a lot of saving this season as much as we could.


If we had recieved monies pormised to us (in some way i dont know how we handle sponsership!) and had we gotten the ice time deal we signed when moving to the tent, and if our landlords didnt hate us we would be doing just fine.


AS i said on THF Jenna Jameson has been screwed less than us!

[Milkman™]

Sorry gazza it just does not fit, 30k over a season is less than a grand a week thats a £1 ticket price rise, to save the club, wouldnt all the fans pay that.


I reckon before much longer The Cardiff Devils will be owned by PI

And you say dont throw overspending at you, well when expenditure is higher than income it is basic math 101, however you got there.

Im no rocket scientist but I spend less than I earn (just), is that not the way of the world.

edit for last papragraph

[oldman]

sambo it is not that the nic make it difficult for the panthers at all, the nic makes more money from concerts,so it is business only which means that at times we move the odd game to accomodate the concerts,but the other choice i reckon is the panthers pay them more money to put the hockey on and then we pick up the tab with our ticket prices!

[barnsleyfan]

therapy said:

I reckon before much longer The Cardiff Devils will be owned by PI

And there be the day ice hockey dies its death in this country. Once PI own the Devils it'll only be a few years before all the Planet Ice teams i.e Bison, Manchester etc are taken into the 'Planet Ice League' and the arena teams plus Coventry are left in their own league. That has been PI's intention since the start...

[Milkman™]

oldman said:

sambo it is not that the nic make it difficult for the panthers at all, the nic makes more money from concerts,so it is business only which means that at times we move the odd game to accomodate the concerts,but the other choice i reckon is the panthers pay them more money to put the hockey on and then we pick up the tab with our ticket prices!

Its not that they make more money but the concerts are a 52 week a year business that coupled with only a small number of promoters, who you dont want to say no to, makes the Panthers an easy thing to move.

As well as that the free ice time that panthers are given to train is used as a sweetner a lot of the time.

[gazzathedevil]

therapy said:

Sorry gazza it just does not fit, 30k over a season is less than a grand a week thats a £1 ticket price rise, to save the club, wouldnt all the fans pay that.


I reckon before much longer The Cardiff Devils will be owned by PI

And you say dont throw overspending at you, well when expenditure is higher than income it is basic math 101, however you got there.

Im no rocket scientist but I spend less than I earn (just), is that not the way of the world.

edit for last papragraph

ok the club probably would have made a loss, much like the others probably although it would have been a loss of a couple of thousand. It wouldnt have been 18k now please trouble.


The day the Cardiff devils are owned by PI is the day the Devils die none of the hardcore will support it and mike petrious will forever hold our legacy and close his fist and crush it in one swoop.


It will be a day that will never come.

[Milkman™]

barnsleyfan said:

therapy said:

I reckon before much longer The Cardiff Devils will be owned by PI

And there be the day ice hockey dies its death in this country. Once PI own the Devils it'll only be a few years before all the Planet Ice teams i.e Bison, Manchester etc are taken into the 'Planet Ice League' and the arena teams plus Coventry are left in their own league. That has been PI's intention since the start...

Then so be it, however you think they will survive without the Panthers/Steelers and Belfast.

Oh and for your info, the skydome (home of Cov) is PI too.

[barnsleyfan]

therapy said:

barnsleyfan said:

And there be the day ice hockey dies its death in this country. Once PI own the Devils it'll only be a few years before all the Planet Ice teams i.e Bison, Manchester etc are taken into the 'Planet Ice League' and the arena teams plus Coventry are left in their own league. That has been PI's intention since the start...

Then so be it, however you think they will survive without the Panthers/Steelers and Belfast.

Oh and for your info, the skydome (home of Cov) is PI too.

And for your info... 'and the arena teams plus Coventry are left in their own league.' I am fully aware that the Skydome is a PI rink, yet they aren't involved in this mini league for some reason beyond my workings out! No student tickets in Coventry because they make enough money and sell enough tickets weekly through adults tickets - PI business head than make the fans happy head...compare that to all other PI rinks and they do have student tickets.

And the PI league will never survive without Notts/ Shuff/ Belfast, I am aware of that, but that isn't PI's priority to be quite honest. They're just out to screw as many people as possible. And who is to say we'll survive without the rink teams? I know I won't be happy watching a 6 team league again!

EDIT: I just hope it never gets to this point and Cardiff Council sort themselves out and adhere to their contract!

[loveday]

Gazza,
Are there no plans for a public meeting like Basingstoke held?

If you could get 300 fans to pay £5 a week to the end of the season, on similar lines that Basingstoke were/or still are doing.

They also suggested having 'Bucket collections' at each game where all supporters were asked to donate £1 minimum.

It is a start.

Are there any plans to name and shame the sponsor who has not paid up?

I wish you well in what ever the Club decide to do.

I know that The Nottingham Panthers Supporters Club are running a Coach to our next game at Cardiff. A first this season!

[gazzathedevil]

loveday said:

Gazza,
Are there no plans for a public meeting like Basingstoke held?

If you could get 300 fans to pay £5 a week to the end of the season, on similar lines that Basingstoke were/or still are doing.

They also suggested having 'Bucket collections' at each game where all supporters were asked to donate £1 minimum.

It is a start.

Are there any plans to name and shame the sponsor who has not paid up?

I wish you well in what ever the Club decide to do.

I know that The Nottingham Panthers Supporters Club are running a Coach to our next game at Cardiff. A first this season!

At the moment loveday we are awaiting word from owners on where we go next. Its all a bit bombshell from the echo. And for all we know there are sponser irons in the fire.



I am sure if the Devils fans are in any way needed to raise funds we will be ther ewith bells on.



And well done on getting a coach down! we look forward to seeing you ;D

[Milkman™]

barnsleyfan said:

I just hope it never gets to this point and Cardiff Council sort themselves out and adhere to their contract!

You talk of this magical contract, has anyone seen it?

A verbal contract is as good as a written one, fans seem sure that the council down in the land of the sheep are breaking this 'contract', as do the club, so why are they not chasing it up?

A PI run league may not be a bad thing, could it be any worse than what we had had for 10 years?, got to give them a go surely after all they make money at what they do, and lets be honest the business of running things should be left to the men in suits.

I for one say lets give it a go.

[gazzathedevil]

therapy said:

barnsleyfan said:

I just hope it never gets to this point and Cardiff Council sort themselves out and adhere to their contract!

You talk of this magical contract, has anyone seen it?

A verbal contract is as good as a written one, fans seem sure that the council down in the land of the sheep are breaking this 'contract', as do the club, so why are they not chasing it up?

A PI run league may not be a bad thing, could it be any worse than what we had had for 10 years?, got to give them a go surely after all they make money at what they do, and lets be honest the business of running things should be left to the men in suits.

I for one say lets give it a go.

I;ve seen it, and i have talked to the solicitor who has seen it and read it.



The day a planet ice run league is here is the day all of us go to the swanny.


Milkman spend an hour with these people and listen to them talk then come back to me and say give it a shot. This situation i really do think your trying to be controversial for the sake of it, and i dont want to go off on one with you because this is a situation that is very very close to me.


You simply cannot fathom without being a Devils fan how serious our situation is and the bull PI and the council have led us through, remember this is the same PI that threatened not to have sky cameras in their rink unless they got their way!



It's not your fault you dont know i accept that, but PI league no freaking way!

[LUFC]

PI owned and ran Bison till they sold them last season. They did ok, sure they never spent big but had some good teams, players and put up some good fights.

If PI are needed to do the same with Cardiff then so be it.

As for Manchester and Coventry like the bison now only play out of PI arena's they are not owned in any way by them, yet they dont have the trouble that Cardiff has with them. Maybe it's time Cardiff tried to get a business model off say Manchester or Coventry and work out what they do that Cardiff doesnt do right with relations between them and PI.

[mortimershoals]

Looks like a case of short term pain for long term gain. Cutting players won't help in the long term but it might ensure that there is a long term.

[Rich]

Cut who though? As has been said, if they cut a first liner the product wont be there and people wont pay to watch them. if they cut a lower import its not worth it as they havnt got enough depth. I would say Sample is on decent money and would be about the only option

[gazzathedevil]

neolad said:

PI owned and ran Bison till they sold them last season. They did ok, sure they never spent big but had some good teams, players and put up some good fights.

If PI are needed to do the same with Cardiff then so be it.

As for Manchester and Coventry like the bison now only play out of PI arena's they are not owned in any way by them, yet they dont have the trouble that Cardiff has with them. Maybe it's time Cardiff tried to get a business model off say Manchester or Coventry and work out what they do that Cardiff doesnt do right with relations between them and PI.

Manchester

Mike pertirous AND the phoenix owner own the rink. Thus the phoenix gain from anything planet ice (ooops sorry silver blades) do out of that venue.


Basingstoke were owned by planet ice and during their crisis point earlier in the season planet ice gave them FREE ice time. I dont see that forth coming with us do you?


coventry- ahhh Planet ice little cash cow, they pack out every week they are viable for PI so they dont give them any grief. Planet ice is also based in the midlands so they have always had a soft spot for the Blaze. Paul thompson came to a cardiff meeting once to tell us how much they pay for ice and how it would be BETTER for us not to have PI there. So its not like coventry exactly love them either.



This is about the Cardiff Devils fans fighting for season after season knowing the WNIR was going to be knocked down. We fought ensuring the Skating community in Cardiff had somewhere to go and somehwere that the Devils would prosper. We did NOT fight to build a profit making tent for planet ice.


We are only fighting (again!) for the things we were promised and the things a lot of folk put time and effort into getting. If Bob phillips or SORAC were given control of that ice rink we would operate the same way we did in the WNIR and thats ALL profits go straight back into the skating community. to fund itself and ensure eveyrone benefitted from the figure skaters to the sledge hockey to the Devils to the lean to play.


If all that seems unreasonable after all we have been through then i must be loopy!


AS for the laid back attitude of 'so be it' i would rather stick forks in my eyes than have planet ice hold our legacy in its hands. And i know a lot of devils fnas feel the same. Theres a reason for that WE DONT WANT THEM HERE!

[barnsleyfan]

And if you want any more information on the matter in hand, there are 2 open threads on the Elite League Forum, in the Devils section, which tell you the ins and outs of the deals. It's an interesting read and should finally convince some folk of the stuff going on...