|
Post by dill1015 on Oct 21, 2019 10:33:00 GMT
I said years ago that the over policing of the game would kill it in this country, and sadly i think its slowly going that way.
Theres a difference between cutting out dirty play and calling everything that look remotely questionable which is what DOPS has been doing. Also the ridiculous instigator penalty has really hurt the game imo.
The sad reality is that without that physically edge ice hockey simply cant compete in this country with other sports. Its dry and dull to watch 2 average teams bumble through 3 periods without any grit or aggression.
This combined with the garbage of the last few seasons has sapped away my love of the game.
|
|
|
Post by kievthegreat on Oct 21, 2019 11:07:11 GMT
NB will be hoping that crowd numbers stay up during this watering down of quality (they won’t) but if not then take the money and run. 25% of “gate money” spent on players was the big clue there which many seemed to have missed by most. 25% of gate money wouldn’t make a dent in the Cardiff roster or several other teams either. Not wanting to defend Neil Black in slightest, but didn't he say the 25% was to pay for the arena? I do not think he gave a percentage spend on players, except to say it's the same percentage of revenue as the Clan spend.
|
|
Yotes
Forum Admin
Posts: 16,405
|
Post by Yotes on Oct 21, 2019 11:19:57 GMT
NB will be hoping that crowd numbers stay up during this watering down of quality (they won’t) but if not then take the money and run. 25% of “gate money” spent on players was the big clue there which many seemed to have missed by most. 25% of gate money wouldn’t make a dent in the Cardiff roster or several other teams either. Not wanting to defend Neil Black in slightest, but didn't he say the 25% was to pay for the arena? I do not think he gave a percentage spend on players, except to say it's the same percentage of revenue as the Clan spend. Yeah, that value will be less than 25%
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
|
Post by iginla on Oct 21, 2019 11:22:56 GMT
NB will be hoping that crowd numbers stay up during this watering down of quality (they won’t) but if not then take the money and run. 25% of “gate money” spent on players was the big clue there which many seemed to have missed by most. 25% of gate money wouldn’t make a dent in the Cardiff roster or several other teams either. Not wanting to defend Neil Black in slightest, but didn't he say the 25% was to pay for the arena? I do not think he gave a percentage spend on players, except to say it's the same percentage of revenue as the Clan spend. He definitely said the Panthers/Clan player spend was the same based on % of revenue. I don’t believe for a second that he spends twice as much on Panthers roster than on Clan’s. But that’s what he’s saying here because Panthers revenue will be at least double Clans....and more. He must think his fans are as thick as a plank to fall for that crap !
|
|
|
Post by The Flying Shirt on Oct 21, 2019 11:25:17 GMT
NB will be hoping that crowd numbers stay up during this watering down of quality (they won’t) but if not then take the money and run. 25% of “gate money” spent on players was the big clue there which many seemed to have missed by most. 25% of gate money wouldn’t make a dent in the Cardiff roster or several other teams either. Not wanting to defend Neil Black in slightest, but didn't he say the 25% was to pay for the arena? I do not think he gave a percentage spend on players, except to say it's the same percentage of revenue as the Clan spend. Yes he said player spend was 25% of seat revenue. So 75% plus sponsorship money pays for the arena, paper clips and Bermuda costs.
|
|
|
Post by The Flying Shirt on Oct 21, 2019 11:26:00 GMT
Not wanting to defend Neil Black in slightest, but didn't he say the 25% was to pay for the arena? I do not think he gave a percentage spend on players, except to say it's the same percentage of revenue as the Clan spend. He definitely said the Panthers/Clan player spend was the same based on % of revenue. I don’t believe for a second that he spends twice as much on Panthers roster than on Clan’s. But that’s what he’s saying here because Panthers revenue will be at least double Clans....and more. He must think his fans are as thick as a plank to fall for that crap ! Zak Fitzgerald has a paper round.
|
|
Yotes
Forum Admin
Posts: 16,405
|
Post by Yotes on Oct 21, 2019 11:48:26 GMT
Not wanting to defend Neil Black in slightest, but didn't he say the 25% was to pay for the arena? I do not think he gave a percentage spend on players, except to say it's the same percentage of revenue as the Clan spend. Yes he said player spend was 25% of seat revenue. So 75% plus sponsorship money pays for the arena, paper clips and Bermuda costs. Did he? Like Kiev I didn't think he put a value on how little he makes available for players. He definitely said 25% went to the arena.
|
|
|
Post by The Flying Shirt on Oct 21, 2019 11:51:50 GMT
Yes he said player spend was 25% of seat revenue. So 75% plus sponsorship money pays for the arena, paper clips and Bermuda costs. Did he? Like Kiev I didn't think he put a value on how little he makes available for players. He definitely said 25% went to the arena. I thought the answer came when he was asked if it was a cheap team (about the only potentially awkward question he was asked) and he replied that the team cost is always 25% of seat revenue
|
|
|
Post by The Flying Shirt on Oct 21, 2019 12:02:28 GMT
Yes he said player spend was 25% of seat revenue. So 75% plus sponsorship money pays for the arena, paper clips and Bermuda costs. Did he? Like Kiev I didn't think he put a value on how little he makes available for players. He definitely said 25% went to the arena. Plus the arena is a fixed cost
|
|
|
Post by kievthegreat on Oct 21, 2019 12:05:34 GMT
Did he? Like Kiev I didn't think he put a value on how little he makes available for players. He definitely said 25% went to the arena. Plus the arena is a fixed cost He mentioned 25% of revenue goes to the arena when discussing the situations of Cardiff and Belfast who play rent free or are owned by their arena.
|
|
Yotes
Forum Admin
Posts: 16,405
|
Post by Yotes on Oct 21, 2019 12:07:44 GMT
I'll let one of you watch it again and report back. Once was enough for me
|
|
|
Post by kievthegreat on Oct 21, 2019 12:18:19 GMT
I'll let one of you watch it again and report back. Once was enough for me Do we have to?
|
|
|
Post by The Flying Shirt on Oct 21, 2019 13:16:04 GMT
Right at the beginning of the interview he says that player budget is calculated on 25% of the turnover.
|
|
Mark
Randall Weber
Experience has taught me that when it really matters the only person you can rely on is yourself.
Posts: 4,615
|
Post by Mark on Oct 21, 2019 15:14:27 GMT
Exactly...the SHL for example is great to watch and that has no fighting as it is played at 100mph and the skill level is very high. We dont have that skill level or speed here so take out fights and the league is really dull as the skill doesn't make up for no fights. Also I've been fortunate to see two SEL games (as it was then known) and the skill level was off the charts. There was no fighting but loads of hits been finished etc and it was intense to watch. I believe this Wednesday is the first live Freesports game (Fife v Belfast) someone correct me if I'm wrong but unless you support one of those teams can it really be a spectacle for the neutral? And exciting to watch? Not a spectacle at all, and hasn't been for some time. The few times I've tried to watch a match not involving the Panthers, I've quickly switched off through sheer boredom. Added to that, two seasons ago whilst attending a home game against Dundee which the Panthers won 3-0 I decided to stop going and didn't attend another match that season. I was sat, bored to tears and just waiting to go home. The whole experience has lost it's appeal.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2019 15:25:05 GMT
Also I've been fortunate to see two SEL games (as it was then known) and the skill level was off the charts. There was no fighting but loads of hits been finished etc and it was intense to watch. I believe this Wednesday is the first live Freesports game (Fife v Belfast) someone correct me if I'm wrong but unless you support one of those teams can it really be a spectacle for the neutral? And exciting to watch? Not a spectacle at all, and hasn't been for some time. The few times I've tried to watch a match not involving the Panthers, I've quickly switched off through sheer boredom. Added to that, two seasons ago whilst attending a home game against Dundee which the Panthers won 3-0 I decided to stop going and didn't attend another match that season. I was sat, bored to tears and just waiting to go home. The whole experience has lost it's appeal. Even if a neutral is flicking through channels looking for something to watch and comes across a live eihl match I can't imagine they would watch it for long .. from the quality on the ice to the camera positions to genuine game presentation
|
|
Jord v4
Ken Westman
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 2,714
|
Post by Jord v4 on Oct 21, 2019 16:51:49 GMT
Right at the beginning of the interview he says that player budget is calculated on 25% of the turnover. It's an estimated turnover from the previous season(s) along with projections... So all factors are taken in to account, well they should be. A very very basic scenario for any half decent business. I've stated many times on here the budget is the same as previous seasons. If we are taking less/more in then the budget could waver slightly but it will be calculated in such a way it hardly wavers.
|
|
DMS
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 574
|
Post by DMS on Oct 21, 2019 17:25:50 GMT
Also I've been fortunate to see two SEL games (as it was then known) and the skill level was off the charts. There was no fighting but loads of hits been finished etc and it was intense to watch. I believe this Wednesday is the first live Freesports game (Fife v Belfast) someone correct me if I'm wrong but unless you support one of those teams can it really be a spectacle for the neutral? And exciting to watch? Not a spectacle at all, and hasn't been for some time. The few times I've tried to watch a match not involving the Panthers, I've quickly switched off through sheer boredom. Added to that, two seasons ago whilst attending a home game against Dundee which the Panthers won 3-0 I decided to stop going and didn't attend another match that season. I was sat, bored to tears and just waiting to go home. The whole experience has lost it's appeal. I’ve been having this discussion with a few people I just don’t think the EIHL is an interesting product as a whole on the ice and off the ice. I still like hockey despite the way the game has changed, I go in hope of seeing an entertaining game and a win for my team however sparse that is these days but from a neutral perspective I would (and do) travel abroad to watch different leagues, will watch content on line/through streaming services to get a better experience from a neutral POV. Lack of transparency for off ice business makes it difficult to read/research different aspects, the stats are wholly inaccurate within the league so that makes it tough going to look into. The league hasn’t got an identity or a style that makes it very difficult to watch other games from a neutral perspective as there is low intensity, clash of styles. Whilst some may disagree with it at least the LNAH for example has a key selling point, I feel of the EIHL could decide what it wants to be it would do a better chance of keeping existing fans and bringing in new ones.
|
|
|
Post by bobness on Oct 21, 2019 18:14:50 GMT
Yep, I stand corrected, that's what happens when you play the same team twice in a weekend. In that case, it really is appalling now, that our essentially 2nd line centre doesn't win a single one of his 10 face offs all game? You can't do much when you start without the puck...
|
|
|
Post by bobness on Oct 21, 2019 18:24:51 GMT
Bulmer has been a massive let down. Just does not look interested. Time for him to shape up or ship out. I'm beginning to lose my patience with him too. Just doesn't seem to look the remotest bit bothered. He has all the tools to be an impact player too. Great size, skates well, half decent shot, big enough to be a physical force, but he's showing none of it.
|
|
|
Post by kievthegreat on Oct 21, 2019 19:20:11 GMT
Right at the beginning of the interview he says that player budget is calculated on 25% of the turnover. Do you have a timestamp? I've listened several times and can't hear that. The only budget quotes based on 25% or turnover were: 1.36 to 2.41 "I can't put an exact figure on it because I don't know what those teams are spending, but I would imagine that us, Cardiff and Sheffield are probably spending very similar amounts of money on our teams. Belfast are spending significantly less than the 3 of us. In terms of budget, we've got exactly the same budget as we had for last year, which was the largest budget we'd ever had on the club and I can go into a little bit of telling people how that calculation works. And in addition obviously we've also brought in some other resources to the on-ice product in terms of management which haven't beared fruit yet, but hopefully they will. And obviously it's not necessarily just what you spend but how you spend it and obviously given that i'm involved in a team that's on an 8 game winning streak with a significantly lower playing budget than our team. It's really how you spend it that's the key here Chris. I need to make that clear to people it's how you spend it, not necessarily what it is." 3.07 to 3.20 The player budget in both clubs is the same percentage of turnover, therefore the player budget in Glasgow is significantly lower than the player budget in Nottingham. 24.06 to 24.48 "Look we've got plenty of stiff competition. Just to let fans know out there, obviously our g***t rivals up the road are getting larger attendances than we are, as in last season to games. So the idea that we can just spend our way out of it because we're just the richest club is just not necessarily an easy solution at all and it's probably not true. So we need to be clever, I mean we're competing also against Cardiff and against Belfast both of whom play rent free in their buildings effectively. They both control their buildings, whereas we're contributing 25% of our revenues towards the arena, in the form of Arena rents." PS. FWIW I don't believe what he's said. If he told me the grass is green I'd want to look out a window and check.
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
|
Post by iginla on Oct 21, 2019 19:35:24 GMT
Right at the beginning of the interview he says that player budget is calculated on 25% of the turnover. It's an estimated turnover from the previous season(s) along with projections... So all factors are taken in to account, well they should be. A very very basic scenario for any half decent business. I've stated many times on here the budget is the same as previous seasons. If we are taking less/more in then the budget could waver slightly but it will be calculated in such a way it hardly wavers. And Panthers crowds are dropping. So remember what Mr Black said next year people when it’s season ticket renewal time again......because the player budget will drop accordingly too !
|
|
Yotes
Forum Admin
Posts: 16,405
|
Post by Yotes on Oct 21, 2019 19:42:23 GMT
I've listened several times 😳 If you listen to it too many times (and happen to live in Bermuda), Blacky will class you as an Old Family Friend.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2019 19:53:38 GMT
It's an estimated turnover from the previous season(s) along with projections... So all factors are taken in to account, well they should be. A very very basic scenario for any half decent business. I've stated many times on here the budget is the same as previous seasons. If we are taking less/more in then the budget could waver slightly but it will be calculated in such a way it hardly wavers. And Panthers crowds are dropping. So remember what Mr Black said next year people when it’s season ticket renewal time again......because the player budget will drop accordingly too ! And that's the point I was waiting for someone to mention . Imagine when crowds are hovering around the 3,000 mark just what standard of player will we get then 🙄
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
|
Post by iginla on Oct 21, 2019 20:02:07 GMT
Right at the beginning of the interview he says that player budget is calculated on 25% of the turnover. Do you have a timestamp? I've listened several times and can't hear that. The only budget quotes based on 25% or turnover were: 1.36 to 2.41 "I can't put an exact figure on it because I don't know what those teams are spending, but I would imagine that us, Cardiff and Sheffield are probably spending very similar amounts of money on our teams. Belfast are spending significantly less than the 3 of us. In terms of budget, we've got exactly the same budget as we had for last year, which was the largest budget we'd ever had on the club and I can go into a little bit of telling people how that calculation works. And in addition obviously we've also brought in some other resources to the on-ice product in terms of management which haven't beared fruit yet, but hopefully they will. And obviously it's not necessarily just what you spend but how you spend it and obviously given that i'm involved in a team that's on an 8 game winning streak with a significantly lower playing budget than our team. It's really how you spend it that's the key here Chris. I need to make that clear to people it's how you spend it, not necessarily what it is." 3.07 to 3.20 The player budget in both clubs is the same percentage of turnover, therefore the player budget in Glasgow is significantly lower than the player budget in Nottingham. 24.06 to 24.48 "Look we've got plenty of stiff competition. Just to let fans know out there, obviously our g***t rivals up the road are getting larger attendances than we are, as in last season to games. So the idea that we can just spend our way out of it because we're just the richest club is just not necessarily an easy solution at all and it's probably not true. So we need to be clever, I mean we're competing also against Cardiff and against Belfast both of whom play rent free in their buildings effectively. They both control their buildings, whereas we're contributing 25% of our revenues towards the arena, in the form of Arena rents." PS. FWIW I don't believe what he's said. If he told me the grass is green I'd want to look out a window and check. Blacks arguments don’t stack up though. Even if Cardiff play rent free,Panthers get 3000 more fans,the first 1000 tickets sold cover the NIC rent so that still leaves Panthers 2000 tickets or £30k a game better off. Add on all the extras from 3000 more fans and that blows that Black argument out of the water. He also seems to be saying Sheffield are getting more fans now than Panthers. Yes they are Neil,so how come the last 10 or so years Panthers haven’t been using that crowd argument in reverse and why has Panthers roster not looked far superior to Sheffield’s ? So that blows Blacks other argument.
|
|
grrm
Pat Casey
Posts: 223
|
Post by grrm on Oct 21, 2019 21:28:08 GMT
Do you have a timestamp? I've listened several times and can't hear that. The only budget quotes based on 25% or turnover were: 1.36 to 2.41 "I can't put an exact figure on it because I don't know what those teams are spending, but I would imagine that us, Cardiff and Sheffield are probably spending very similar amounts of money on our teams. Belfast are spending significantly less than the 3 of us. In terms of budget, we've got exactly the same budget as we had for last year, which was the largest budget we'd ever had on the club and I can go into a little bit of telling people how that calculation works. And in addition obviously we've also brought in some other resources to the on-ice product in terms of management which haven't beared fruit yet, but hopefully they will. And obviously it's not necessarily just what you spend but how you spend it and obviously given that i'm involved in a team that's on an 8 game winning streak with a significantly lower playing budget than our team. It's really how you spend it that's the key here Chris. I need to make that clear to people it's how you spend it, not necessarily what it is." 3.07 to 3.20 The player budget in both clubs is the same percentage of turnover, therefore the player budget in Glasgow is significantly lower than the player budget in Nottingham. 24.06 to 24.48 "Look we've got plenty of stiff competition. Just to let fans know out there, obviously our g***t rivals up the road are getting larger attendances than we are, as in last season to games. So the idea that we can just spend our way out of it because we're just the richest club is just not necessarily an easy solution at all and it's probably not true. So we need to be clever, I mean we're competing also against Cardiff and against Belfast both of whom play rent free in their buildings effectively. They both control their buildings, whereas we're contributing 25% of our revenues towards the arena, in the form of Arena rents." PS. FWIW I don't believe what he's said. If he told me the grass is green I'd want to look out a window and check. Blacks arguments don’t stack up though. Even if Cardiff play rent free,Panthers get 3000 more fans,the first 1000 tickets sold cover the NIC rent so that still leaves Panthers 2000 tickets or £30k a game better off. Add on all the extras from 3000 more fans and that blows that Black argument out of the water. He also seems to be saying Sheffield are getting more fans now than Panthers. Yes they are Neil,so how come the last 10 or so years Panthers haven’t been using that crowd argument in reverse and why has Panthers roster not looked far superior to Sheffield’s ? So that blows Blacks other argument. Spot on. This is why I was so disappointed in Chris Ellis, he just let Black get away with ridiculous answers and then didn’t press him with decent follow up questions.
|
|