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Post by wgray on Aug 4, 2019 14:28:25 GMT
That’s what you call a quality signing. 👍 It's a whole other level, as is their budget. Just hope they take the league/trophies from the other two big spenders. Rather these guys than the others. The budget of Sheffield, Cardiff and Belfast, on paper, looks far superior to ours, but I’m struggling to understand why? We had the 2nd highest average attendance last season, still maintaining a high level, we’ve effectively lost one senior Brits wages this year, which in theory could be used to attract imports. Yet we seem to have signed a lot of players without the experience needed to make a big impact, a lot of wait and see about the team. I understand that Doucet and Wallace want to create an identity and they’ve banged on about a team that is hard-working and has a lot of speed, but why can’t we sign players in this mould that have had experience in the top European leagues or AHL, the same leagues that other teams are signing players from? I don’t want to be cynical but with the lack of annual news about season ticket numbers increasing, is it a fair assumption that they’ve took a decline? There was a hell of a lot of un-rest last season. In turn we don’t have as much money to spend on the squad and Black isn’t re-investing the money that other clubs are to make us competitive. I really hope the club comes out and announces a forward and dman that raises the level of this team.
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Post by PantherG on Aug 4, 2019 14:33:21 GMT
It's a whole other level, as is their budget. Just hope they take the league/trophies from the other two big spenders. Rather these guys than the others. The budget of Sheffield, Cardiff and Belfast, on paper, looks far superior to ours, but I’m struggling to understand why? We had the 2nd highest average attendance last season, still maintaining a high level, we’ve effectively lost one senior Brits wages this year, which in theory could be used to attract imports. Yet we seem to have signed a lot of players without the experience needed to make a big impact, a lot of wait and see about the team. I understand that Doucet and Wallace want to create an identity and they’ve banged on about a team that is hard-working and has a lot of speed, but why can’t we sign players in this mould that have had experience in the top European leagues or AHL, the same leagues that other teams are signing players from? I don’t want to be cynical but with the lack of annual news about season ticket numbers increasing, is it a fair assumption that they’ve took a decline? There was a hell of a lot of un-rest last season. In turn we don’t have as much money to spend on the squad and Black isn’t re-investing the money that other clubs are to make us competitive. I really hope the club comes out and announces a forward and dman that raises the level of this team. You also have to remember that the Panthers have by far the best Sponsor in the league too, bringing in far more than the other arena teams. I guess the difference is the other teams spend what they get, I am guessing that Panthers like to bank a stack of cash for Black and his backer??? If so that is a massive difference right there. We will NEVER compete with the other three clubs, if this is the case.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 14:35:43 GMT
The budget of Sheffield, Cardiff and Belfast, on paper, looks far superior to ours, but I’m struggling to understand why? We had the 2nd highest average attendance last season, still maintaining a high level, we’ve effectively lost one senior Brits wages this year, which in theory could be used to attract imports. Yet we seem to have signed a lot of players without the experience needed to make a big impact, a lot of wait and see about the team. I understand that Doucet and Wallace want to create an identity and they’ve banged on about a team that is hard-working and has a lot of speed, but why can’t we sign players in this mould that have had experience in the top European leagues or AHL, the same leagues that other teams are signing players from? I don’t want to be cynical but with the lack of annual news about season ticket numbers increasing, is it a fair assumption that they’ve took a decline? There was a hell of a lot of un-rest last season. In turn we don’t have as much money to spend on the squad and Black isn’t re-investing the money that other clubs are to make us competitive. I really hope the club comes out and announces a forward and dman that raises the level of this team. You also have to remember that the Panthers have by far the best Sponsor in the league too, bringing in far more than the other arena teams. I guess the difference is the other teams spend what they get, I am guessing that Panthers like to bank a stack of cash for Black and his backer??? If so that is a massive difference right there. We will NEVER compete with the other three clubs, if this is the case. The gap will only get bigger folks
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meadow
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Post by meadow on Aug 4, 2019 14:39:39 GMT
Definitely seems to be a noticeable splitting of the 'big four' into three big spenders plus panthers this offseason, don't think this is just a cynical panthers fan perspective either - in Simms periscope last week he mentioned competing with Belfast and Cardiff in terms of spending / signings, which seemed to be an acknowledgment that Panthers weren't splashing similar levels of cash.
Like a lot of professional leagues, you can split the EIHL into three separate leagues really; big four, mid table (Guildford, Glasgow, Fife) and the teams that generally struggle or have to recruit more conservatively (Dundee, Manchester etc). Whilst there is obviously some crossover, and seasons where there are anomalies (Manchester and Dundee finishing 2nd) the results bear out that since the league win in 2013 panthers have been significantly the least successful of the big four, with league finishes of 4th, 4th, 5th, 4th, 4th and 3rd whilst our competitors have all won two league titles each during this time...
I hate to use comparison...but I'm starting to see Panthers as the NUFC of the EIHL
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Jord v4
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Post by Jord v4 on Aug 4, 2019 14:40:23 GMT
This topic deserves/needs a separate thread.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 14:41:35 GMT
Definitely seems to be a noticeable splitting of the 'big four' into three big spenders plus panthers this offseason, don't think this is just a cynical panthers fan perspective either - in Simms periscope last week he mentioned competing with Belfast and Cardiff in terms of spending / signings, which seemed to be an acknowledgment that Panthers weren't splashing similar levels of cash. Like a lot of professional leagues, you can split the EIHL into three separate leagues really; big four, mid table (Guildford, Glasgow, Fife) and the teams that generally struggle or have to recruit more conservatively (Dundee, Manchester etc). Whilst there is obviously some crossover, and seasons where there are anomalies (Manchester and Dundee finishing 2nd) the results bear out that since the league win in 2013 panthers have been significantly the least successful of the big four, with league finishes of 4th, 4th, 5th, 4th, 4th and 3rd whilst our competitors have all won two league titles each during this time... I hate to use comparison...but I'm starting to see Panthers as the NUFC of the EIHL More like Arsenal
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 14:43:25 GMT
No matter how much fans discuss it, it won't make Panthers spend any more money.
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Post by wgray on Aug 4, 2019 14:48:51 GMT
This topic deserves/needs a separate thread. Agreed, Mods?
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Post by kezypanther on Aug 4, 2019 14:48:57 GMT
Definitely seems to be a noticeable splitting of the 'big four' into three big spenders plus panthers this offseason, don't think this is just a cynical panthers fan perspective either - in Simms periscope last week he mentioned competing with Belfast and Cardiff in terms of spending / signings, which seemed to be an acknowledgment that Panthers weren't splashing similar levels of cash. Like a lot of professional leagues, you can split the EIHL into three separate leagues really; big four, mid table (Guildford, Glasgow, Fife) and the teams that generally struggle or have to recruit more conservatively (Dundee, Manchester etc). Whilst there is obviously some crossover, and seasons where there are anomalies (Manchester and Dundee finishing 2nd) the results bear out that since the league win in 2013 panthers have been significantly the least successful of the big four, with league finishes of 4th, 4th, 5th, 4th, 4th and 3rd whilst our competitors have all won two league titles each during this time... I hate to use comparison...but I'm starting to see Panthers as the NUFC of the EIHL More like Arsenal Unfortunately I support both Arsenal and Panthers. Both owners are tight, both happy to settle for 4th/5th, both sign average players with the added star every once in a while. No matter how bad the team do there will always be fans there to support then.
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Jord v4
Ken Westman
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Post by Jord v4 on Aug 4, 2019 14:53:35 GMT
Unfortunately I support both Arsenal and Panthers. Both owners are tight, both happy to settle for 4th/5th, both sign average players with the added star every once in a while. No matter how bad the team do there will always be fans there to support then. Ok, maybe no need for the thread now. This sums it up beautifully..... & Kezy, you have my sympathies my friend.
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Aug 4, 2019 15:02:14 GMT
Some of you need to think more about the dividend, the yacht club doesn't pay for itself!
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meadow
Jade Galbraith
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Post by meadow on Aug 4, 2019 15:04:01 GMT
Ok happy to run with the Arsenal analogy over Newcastle - its been a while since I followed football properly, last I knew Arsenal had Henry and Bergkamp and were winning loads of trophies 🤣
But yeah, the main idea was still the same - club with plenty of fans, owner and management that isn't prepared to go that extra mile to chase league success.
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Post by wgray on Aug 4, 2019 15:05:51 GMT
I think it’s unfair for loyal fans to be blamed for being the reason a club fails to achieve the ultimate goal though, how is that fair?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 15:08:54 GMT
Some of you need to think more about the dividend, the yacht club doesn't pay for itself! No and people like you help pay for the yacht club !
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Jord v4
Ken Westman
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Post by Jord v4 on Aug 4, 2019 15:13:47 GMT
Back to the budget are we even sure we rank 4th highest...!?
Imagine Blaze, Storm & Clan run us pretty close.
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DMS
Robert Lachowicz
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Post by DMS on Aug 4, 2019 15:16:14 GMT
I think Neil Black has realised that he doesn’t need to spend to much to placate a high number of the modern fanbase (and I’m not counting the ‘night out’ fans).
A high number of our fans these days are more interested in quiz nights, meet the player events, shirt signings & the players being nice guys than they are being competitive on the ice.
Therefore Black can impose budget constraints because ultimately he doesn’t need to spend anymore.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 15:17:47 GMT
I think Neil Black has realised that he doesn’t need to spend to much to placate a high number of the modern fanbase (and I’m not counting the ‘night out’ fans). A high number of our fans these days are more interested in quiz nights, meet the player events, shirt signings & the players being nice guys than they are being competitive on the ice. Therefore Black can impose budget constraints because ultimately he doesn’t need to spend anymore. And I got called out last year for mentioning there was too many fan nights such as quizzes
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Aug 4, 2019 15:18:26 GMT
No and people like you help pay for the yacht club ! People like me, like you? Almost an album title.
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Pies
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Post by Pies on Aug 4, 2019 15:20:54 GMT
I suppose from my point of view, it’s about now a budget is used. Are we trying to lure people in for bigger wages who may have took their first steps in Europe in German, Czech, Swedish or Slovakian leagues first (Herr, Carr, Malmqvist,Fick ) added proven European players (Matheson,Connelly, Jakobs, Loiseau) and then gambles on players who haven’t been tested too much (Deutsch and Golokovs) to build around a dynamic?
If you look at the players on an individual basis: Loiseau: point a game ECHL player, 0.9 PPG player in 2 comparable European leagues Quist: 3rd top scorer in Danish league Fick: 0.5ish PPG player in the ECHL from defence last season Deutsch: 24 year old with KHL, SHL and EBEL league experience Herr: 3 straight season AHLer with no drop downs at 26 going into his prime Carr: 5 seasons over 90% save ratio goalie in the ECHL Matheson: career AHLer with SHL experience Golokovs: KHL experience at 24 0.8 PPG Elite league player Malmquist: 0.75 PPG NCAA player at 22 who was invited to the Wild camp Connelly: career AHLer, with SHL and EBEL experience
When you start to line those up, there’s some big league experience (however small) that are comparable with some of the other teams
Granted we don’t have that 500 game KHLer or the massive ex NHLer, but other than Ling, when has that worked for us?
On paper, I 100% agree that it doesn’t look as strong. But build in that experience alongside players who will probably look to push themselves to bigger leagues, maybe we have decided to spend the money on players on an upward trend rather than those on the downward. Maybe we’ve gone “come here, we’ll give you a chance to put yourself in the shop window to earn better money in a better league next season if you can come here and light it up.” It’s a massive risk but we’ve gone the other way for so long, why not give this approach a go
I really don’t know the finances but maybe GD and TW have invested in but I wanted to ply devils advocate here. Very easy for us to look at a CV and say “he’s expensive”
I’m hoping this prompts some debate
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 15:21:03 GMT
No and people like you help pay for the yacht club ! People like me, like you? Almost an album title. I dont go weekly anymore so perhaps I do contribute to the paradise lifestyle to a lesser extent lol
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Post by wgray on Aug 4, 2019 15:24:01 GMT
Back to the budget are we even sure we rank 4th highest...!? Imagine Blaze, Storm & Clan run us pretty close. Without actual figures obviously we’ll never know, but, we can make guesses based on a players experience etc. You could say that Glasgow have outspent us this season.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 15:26:27 GMT
I suppose from my point of view, it’s about now a budget is used. Are we trying to lure people in for bigger wages who may have took their first steps in Europe in German, Czech, Swedish or Slovakian leagues first (Herr, Carr, Malmqvist,Fick ) added proven European players (Matheson,Connelly, Jakobs, Loiseau) and then gambles on players who haven’t been tested too much (Deutsch and Golokovs) to build around a dynamic? If you look at the players on an individual basis: Loiseau: point a game ECHL player, 0.9 PPG player in 2 comparable European leagues Quist: 3rd top scorer in Danish league Fick: 0.5ish PPG player in the ECHL from defence last season Deutsch: 24 year old with KHL, SHL and EBEL league experience Herr: 3 straight season AHLer with no drop downs at 26 going into his prime Carr: 5 seasons over 90% save ratio goalie in the ECHL Matheson: career AHLer with SHL experience Golokovs: KHL experience at 24 0.8 PPG Elite league player Malmquist: 0.75 PPG NCAA player at 22 who was invited to the Wild camp Connelly: career AHLer, with SHL and EBEL experience When you start to line those up, there’s some big league experience (however small) that are comparable with some of the other teams Granted we don’t have that 500 game KHLer or the massive ex NHLer, but other than Ling, when has that worked for us? On paper, I 100% agree that it doesn’t look as strong. But build in that experience alongside players who will probably look to push themselves to bigger leagues, maybe we have decided to spend the money on players on an upward trend rather than those on the downward. Maybe we’ve gone “come here, we’ll give you a chance to put yourself in the shop window to earn better money in a better league next season if you can come here and light it up.” It’s a massive risk but we’ve gone the other way for so long, why not give this approach a go I really don’t know the finances but maybe GD and TW have invested in but I wanted to ply devils advocate here. Very easy for us to look at a CV and say “he’s expensive” I’m hoping this prompts some debate Interesting point indeed. I always prefer getting a player in on a up instead of the d man giants have signed, while he looks impressive it's quite clear his best days are behind him. Players who are yet to hit their peak ain't always cheap either. If Malnquist attacked interest from Europe at a guess he could be earning 600 quid plus a week. It's really hard to tell what our younger players are earning . Only 4 people will know that
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meadow
Jade Galbraith
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Post by meadow on Aug 4, 2019 15:29:24 GMT
I think it’s unfair for loyal fans to be blamed for being the reason a club fails to achieve the ultimate goal though, how is that fair? Don't think anyone is blaming the fans per se, just when you've got a club where fans are relatively loyal regardless of success levels (or, where the club is ideally placed to just be a bit of weekend entertainment for some*) it means that it's easier for an owner to exploit this by not putting money back into the playing budget. I know the comparison has been made 1000s of times, but just compare with Shuff, where fans are generally unsettled unless there is success because they've won from their inception (due to some extent them being the only arena team back then). Unless they are seen to be doing everything to win these days, attendances drop. *Don't mean that negatively, just a reality of the Panthers catchment since the move to the NIC and is generally how I approach games these days.
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Post by wgray on Aug 4, 2019 15:37:28 GMT
I suppose from my point of view, it’s about now a budget is used. Are we trying to lure people in for bigger wages who may have took their first steps in Europe in German, Czech, Swedish or Slovakian leagues first (Herr, Carr, Malmqvist,Fick ) added proven European players (Matheson,Connelly, Jakobs, Loiseau) and then gambles on players who haven’t been tested too much (Deutsch and Golokovs) to build around a dynamic? If you look at the players on an individual basis: Loiseau: point a game ECHL player, 0.9 PPG player in 2 comparable European leagues Quist: 3rd top scorer in Danish league Fick: 0.5ish PPG player in the ECHL from defence last season Deutsch: 24 year old with KHL, SHL and EBEL league experience Herr: 3 straight season AHLer with no drop downs at 26 going into his prime Carr: 5 seasons over 90% save ratio goalie in the ECHL Matheson: career AHLer with SHL experience Golokovs: KHL experience at 24 0.8 PPG Elite league player Malmquist: 0.75 PPG NCAA player at 22 who was invited to the Wild camp Connelly: career AHLer, with SHL and EBEL experience When you start to line those up, there’s some big league experience (however small) that are comparable with some of the other teams Granted we don’t have that 500 game KHLer or the massive ex NHLer, but other than Ling, when has that worked for us? On paper, I 100% agree that it doesn’t look as strong. But build in that experience alongside players who will probably look to push themselves to bigger leagues, maybe we have decided to spend the money on players on an upward trend rather than those on the downward. Maybe we’ve gone “come here, we’ll give you a chance to put yourself in the shop window to earn better money in a better league next season if you can come here and light it up.” It’s a massive risk but we’ve gone the other way for so long, why not give this approach a go I really don’t know the finances but maybe GD and TW have invested in but I wanted to ply devils advocate here. Very easy for us to look at a CV and say “he’s expensive” I’m hoping this prompts some debate Interesting point indeed. I always prefer getting a player in on a up instead of the d man giants have signed, while he looks impressive it's quite clear his best days are behind him. Players who are yet to hit their peak ain't always cheap either. If Malnquist attacked interest from Europe at a guess he could be earning 600 quid plus a week. It's really hard to tell what our younger players are earning . Only 4 people will know that I’m not meaning to go off topic, but Mullen had 25 points in 29 EBEL games last season. We’ve signed Connelly, who is the same age as him, and he only scored 25 points in 52 EBEL games last season. Now, I think Connelly will be a top player, as do a lot of people, you included maybe, but you need players with the experience of Connelly and Mullen, even if they’re not at the elite level they used to be. You need a mixture of experience and age in your team.
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Aug 4, 2019 15:40:32 GMT
Maybe we’ve gone “come here, we’ll give you a chance to put yourself in the shop window to earn better money in a better league next season if you can come here and light it up.” Why would this be a good thing for us? Let's say these young guys do just that, if there's no season 2, no building on the foundation, we've got nowhere. We'd basically be on a one-and-done setup, we'd have to win immediately which seems somewhat unlikely.
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