iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,446
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Post by iginla on Jan 19, 2018 15:35:13 GMT
I gave Neil Black far more of a hard time at the first Q+A than Rob ever did at the second one and i didn't get banned.
Rob wasn't abusive. In my opinion,they are just using the Q+A thing as an excuse and simply have a personal agenda against Rob.
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Post by vercingetorix1966 on Jan 19, 2018 15:39:17 GMT
Just an excuse to cut off the head of the Trust snake so to speak.
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shinobi
Randall Weber
Forum Dictator
Posts: 4,745
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Post by shinobi on Jan 19, 2018 15:39:37 GMT
Knowing how the club react and have reacted in the past when they feel threatened, I think that, if you are countering with legal action, then black will just ban you for life. His club, his rules. And it's all right posters, like silversenior, sitting on the side-lines and saying 'go for it, show them you mean business by involving solicitors'.They've not been banned, they can sit in the stands and cheer (or boo) the team, safe in the knowledge that using a non de plume on here means they're safe. My advice, suck it up. If it's this season only, you can be back next keeping your nose clean. This season looks to be a washout, and who knows what the team including coach will look like next. That’s absolutely ridiculous “ advice” and hopefully Rob kicks it into touch. Saying “ suck it up” is very nice when the circumstances don’t apply to you personally; why should he accept being banned from attending Panthers games for something he deems to be unjust & the circumstances are not supported by any evidence (allegedly.)
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,446
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Post by iginla on Jan 19, 2018 15:52:47 GMT
Just an excuse to cut off the head of the Trust snake so to speak. Yup....you got it.
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Post by stevejackson on Jan 19, 2018 16:00:08 GMT
You're right, it doesn't effect me because I'm not banned. But knowing what the club is like and the stances that they take is it worth trying to push black and moran into a corner? They have made much on their partnership with a firm of solictors, coincidence?
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BigLad
David Clarke
TWITTER: @AntMJ11
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Post by BigLad on Jan 19, 2018 17:29:40 GMT
I asked the question as I only read the ST statement today and thought it odd that one says one thing and the other says something different, hence why I asked the question.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 19, 2018 18:16:58 GMT
I asked the question as I only read the ST statement today and thought it odd that one says one thing and the other says something different, hence why I asked the question. Plus one of the trusts objectives was to make the Panthers org more honest an accountable so I’m very disillusioned with the whole thing at this point to be honest.
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Post by Rob Scott on Jan 19, 2018 19:47:13 GMT
I asked the question as I only read the ST statement today and thought it odd that one says one thing and the other says something different, hence why I asked the question. Plus one of the trusts objectives was to make the Panthers org more honest an accountable so I’m very disillusioned with the whole thing at this point to be honest. The trust has undoubtably struggled to achieve some of the objectives. Unfortunately the stance Panthers have taken (which is completely unique if the world of Supporters Trust, over 200 of them in various sports) has certainly made things more difficult than they needed to be. I'm sure the people on the interim board are all trying their best to delivery a trust fans of Nottingham Ice Hockey can be proud of but it cannot be argued that the trust has lost some momentum and drive since the head was cut off the snake as it's been put. The idea behind the trust is still a good one but they need help and need more of the fan base to get actively involved. They are currently looking for a new interim chairperson. If you are not happy with how things are progressing then get involved and help to make a positive difference.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jan 19, 2018 20:51:22 GMT
Yes for Robs ban to stand up,surely Panthers need to provide evidence. It would be very interesting to hear a solicitors view. Surely we must have a few amongst Panthers fanbase ?
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 19, 2018 21:31:23 GMT
Plus one of the trusts objectives was to make the Panthers org more honest an accountable so I’m very disillusioned with the whole thing at this point to be honest. The trust has undoubtably struggled to achieve some of the objectives. Unfortunately the stance Panthers have taken (which is completely unique if the world of Supporters Trust, over 200 of them in various sports) has certainly made things more difficult than they needed to be. I'm sure the people on the interim board are all trying their best to delivery a trust fans of Nottingham Ice Hockey can be proud of but it cannot be argued that the trust has lost some momentum and drive since the head was cut off the snake as it's been put. The idea behind the trust is still a good one but they need help and need more of the fan base to get actively involved. They are currently looking for a new interim chairperson. If you are not happy with how things are progressing then get involved and help to make a positive difference. The trust is a bloody shambles. The intrim chair gets banned from the NIC amid conflicting reasons why. It came as a shock quite a way down the road to find out there is no legal basis for the club to even engage the trust and the brass hat on the lot is that it’s not even the Panthers trust anymore. Bless the Lions and all other Nottingham teams but in all honesty I’m a Panthers fan end of and I have no interest or or connection with any other ice hockey team at all. The trust lost its way then lost the plot as far as I am concerned personally.
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Post by Rob Scott on Jan 19, 2018 21:35:33 GMT
The trust has undoubtably struggled to achieve some of the objectives. Unfortunately the stance Panthers have taken (which is completely unique if the world of Supporters Trust, over 200 of them in various sports) has certainly made things more difficult than they needed to be. I'm sure the people on the interim board are all trying their best to delivery a trust fans of Nottingham Ice Hockey can be proud of but it cannot be argued that the trust has lost some momentum and drive since the head was cut off the snake as it's been put. The idea behind the trust is still a good one but they need help and need more of the fan base to get actively involved. They are currently looking for a new interim chairperson. If you are not happy with how things are progressing then get involved and help to make a positive difference. The trust is a bloody shambles. The intrim chair gets banned from the NIC amid conflicting reasons why. It came as a shock quite a way down the road to find out there is no legal basis for the club to even engage the trust and the brass hat on the lot is that it’s not even the Panthers trust anymore. Bless the Lions and all other Nottingham teams but in all honesty I’m a Panthers fan end of and I have no interest or or connection with any other ice hockey team at all. The trust lost its way then lost the plot as far as I am concerned personally. So get involved...
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,446
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Post by iginla on Jan 19, 2018 21:38:10 GMT
The trust has undoubtably struggled to achieve some of the objectives. Unfortunately the stance Panthers have taken (which is completely unique if the world of Supporters Trust, over 200 of them in various sports) has certainly made things more difficult than they needed to be. I'm sure the people on the interim board are all trying their best to delivery a trust fans of Nottingham Ice Hockey can be proud of but it cannot be argued that the trust has lost some momentum and drive since the head was cut off the snake as it's been put. The idea behind the trust is still a good one but they need help and need more of the fan base to get actively involved. They are currently looking for a new interim chairperson. If you are not happy with how things are progressing then get involved and help to make a positive difference. The trust is a bloody shambles. The intrim chair gets banned from the NIC amid conflicting reasons why. It came as a shock quite a way down the road to find out there is no legal basis for the club to even engage the trust and the brass hat on the lot is that it’s not even the Panthers trust anymore. Bless the Lions and all other Nottingham teams but in all honesty I’m a Panthers fan end of and I have no interest or or connection with any other ice hockey team at all. The trust lost its way then lost the plot as far as I am concerned personally. It shouldn't have come as a shock a way down the road that the club didn't legally have to engage with the Trust. Right from the start I told them the club would not engage and if necessary they would hide behind the fact that the club is a private limited company. As such the Trust couldn't force the club into anything.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 19, 2018 21:39:01 GMT
The trust is a bloody shambles. The intrim chair gets banned from the NIC amid conflicting reasons why. It came as a shock quite a way down the road to find out there is no legal basis for the club to even engage the trust and the brass hat on the lot is that it’s not even the Panthers trust anymore. Bless the Lions and all other Nottingham teams but in all honesty I’m a Panthers fan end of and I have no interest or or connection with any other ice hockey team at all. The trust lost its way then lost the plot as far as I am concerned personally. So get involved... No not motivated any more. Sorry.
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Post by Rob Scott on Jan 19, 2018 21:40:21 GMT
No not motivated any more. Sorry. Fair enough. Apathy does rule the day at Panthers so you're in with the in crowd at least.
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Post by Bagheera on Jan 19, 2018 21:56:29 GMT
The trust has undoubtably struggled to achieve some of the objectives. Unfortunately the stance Panthers have taken (which is completely unique if the world of Supporters Trust, over 200 of them in various sports) has certainly made things more difficult than they needed to be. I'm sure the people on the interim board are all trying their best to delivery a trust fans of Nottingham Ice Hockey can be proud of but it cannot be argued that the trust has lost some momentum and drive since the head was cut off the snake as it's been put. The idea behind the trust is still a good one but they need help and need more of the fan base to get actively involved. They are currently looking for a new interim chairperson. If you are not happy with how things are progressing then get involved and help to make a positive difference. The trust is a bloody shambles. The intrim chair gets banned from the NIC amid conflicting reasons why. It came as a shock quite a way down the road to find out there is no legal basis for the club to even engage the trust and the brass hat on the lot is that it’s not even the Panthers trust anymore. Bless the Lions and all other Nottingham teams but in all honesty I’m a Panthers fan end of and I have no interest or or connection with any other ice hockey team at all. The trust lost its way then lost the plot as far as I am concerned personally. I joined the trust to help swell the numbers in hope they could achieve better 2 ways comms with the Panthers. I have no interest in being involved for many reasons, largely having a busy enough family life as it is. Rob and the guys wanted support and I was more than happy to add myself to the head count. I wont go down the route of calling it a shambles as I dont know enough, however I am dissapointed at the perceived lack of activity. Specifically in getting the board formally organised and kicking on. And the point that made me make this post... 100% agree that it all started to go wrong when the name change happened. It was like because the name change was forced that the trust decided to take on a broader outlook of Nottingham hockey as a whole. I joined because I am a loyal and long time fan of the Panthers and nobody else. All due repect to the Lions or any other team, but they don't interest me and have nothing to do with what I signed up for. I felt like this at the time, but as a member chosing to stay on the periferies, I chose not to share my views. I think, if the trust is to continue it needs to go back and look at it's original objectives it set out to do and simply focus on those. That largely being engaging with the Nottigham Panthers for better of the fans and the club. P.S I do think the trust has had an impact on some improvements seen this year. I also know it has been difficult with the Panthers attitude towards it to really achieve those goals in full at this point. If those involved on the interim board are serious the need to move much quicker, get an elected board in place and start to show it's members what it is doing to move forwards. At this stage I certainly wont part with any more cash for membership.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 19, 2018 22:06:13 GMT
No not motivated any more. Sorry. Fair enough. Apathy does rule the day at Panthers so you're in with the in crowd at least. Total apathy. The trust still isn’t open enough on what the hell went on to get you banned and a trust with no legal obligation by the club to even acknowledge it really isn’t a trust at all in the spirit that it was envisaged in the first place.
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Post by vercingetorix1966 on Jan 19, 2018 23:54:01 GMT
It’s a bit unfair to call the trust a shambles. I believe it was set up with the very best of intentions. To address the lack of communication between the club and its fan base. From what I can see it’s only crime was to actually assume Neil Black would engage with the fans who joined. Once he decided not to do so their purpose couldn’t be fulfilled. The only way Black would’ve engaged is had he been compelled and that required almost all the fan base to join the trust. Whilst I think apathy is a problem I also think the revolving door nature of game attendees is the bigger problem. I would say it takes about 5 years for folks to realise all is not truly well in panther land and for disillusionment to set in. Even then it can take considerably longer for them to give voice to it. As a result most attendees aren’t currently dissatisfied to the point they will effectively do something about it. And now Black has reacted the way he has it will brow beat others and make them fearful of the consequences.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2018 0:23:51 GMT
Steve Jackson. My name is Pete Brooks and my mobile is 07767 265844. Mr Black knows this as well, as I’ve written to him via the club. As one of the original interim board members I was a joint malfeasor in the threatened legal action from Black’s solicitors. Rob was banned on a trumped up issue purely because he was the chair of the trust. As a joint malfeasor I have the original letter from Black’s solicitor. I haven’t gone public with it in case it DOES result in a lifelong ban for Rob - that is the only reason. For myself, after 28 years supporting the Panthers I’m not really bothered if I’m banned or not. I agree that the trust is failing - that is entirely due to the apathy of fans like you. Do you think Black could ban 500 fans? But no, lack of support from the very people the trust set out to represent killed it. That and, in my opinion, bad advice from the trust’s professional advisors. I would have kept the name Nottingham Panthers Supporters Trust and DARED Black to sue. What had we done wrong? Imagine the nationwide publicity “ Sports club sues supporters!” It was a trust for the supporters of the Nottingham Panthers! Legally the board were only liable for their share anyway - £1.00. The trust was forced to (on the face of it) widen it’s perspective because it was forced to change it’s name. Having invested hours of my own time and my own (not members) money in helping to get the trust up and running I strongly resent your inference that I am, to quote Sam Oakford, a keyboard warrior. Lets see YOU put some effort in. I am disgusted with the Panthers management, with Sevcik for not offering support, and pundits like you pontificating about something you know nothing about. DO YOUR RESEARCH - read the thread from the beginning!
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Karl
Jade Galbraith
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Post by Karl on Jan 20, 2018 4:24:17 GMT
Steve Jackson. My name is Pete Brooks and my mobile is 07767 265844. Mr Black knows this as well, as I’ve written to him via the club. As one of the original interim board members I was a joint malfeasor in the threatened legal action from Black’s solicitors. Rob was banned on a trumped up issue purely because he was the chair of the trust. As a joint malfeasor I have the original letter from Black’s solicitor. I haven’t gone public with it in case it DOES result in a lifelong ban for Rob - that is the only reason. For myself, after 28 years supporting the Panthers I’m not really bothered if I’m banned or not. I agree that the trust is failing - that is entirely due to the apathy of fans like you. Do you think Black could ban 500 fans? But no, lack of support from the very people the trust set out to represent killed it. That and, in my opinion, bad advice from the trust’s professional advisors. I would have kept the name Nottingham Panthers Supporters Trust and DARED Black to sue. What had we done wrong? Imagine the nationwide publicity “ Sports club sues supporters!” It was a trust for the supporters of the Nottingham Panthers! Legally the board were only liable for their share anyway - £1.00. The trust was forced to (on the face of it) widen it’s perspective because it was forced to change it’s name. Having invested hours of my own time and my own (not members) money in helping to get the trust up and running I strongly resent your inference that I am, to quote Sam Oakford, a keyboard warrior. Lets see YOU put some effort in. I am disgusted with the Panthers management, with Sevcik for not offering support, and pundits like you pontificating about something you know nothing about. DO YOUR RESEARCH - read the thread from the beginning! I appreciate you’ve written to NB. The reason the trust is failing isn’t the apathy of fans. You are absolutely wrong. Some people have no issues with the way the club is run. They want to come and enjoy a night watching sport without having to get deep into the politics behind it to try and bend it to their will. If the team loses, it loses. They don’t look for every conspiracy behind closed doors as to why we are not walking every team every game. They want to escape the dredgery of normal life and enjoy themselves. Getting into a political fight against the Panthers who in a lot of people’s eyes have done nothing wrong would be pointless. The average fan who has a suggestion, tweets the club or Calum and can get an answer in seconds. They have no need to pay to be a member of the trust to have their voice heard. They can go to the office and speak to the management face to face. They can speak to Neil when he is sat around the arena. I, like a lot of other fans have heard multiple stories on Robs banning. On this thread we have been given the version of events from the trust, yet it seems there is a lot more to this so I won’t address it. However see this from the average fans point of view. The trust won’t even support Rob...why should any one else sign up then? If the trust is there to support fans but have distanced themselves from a fan clearly in need. Wouldn’t give me any confidence in it. If I went to my union at work and needed help and it wouldn’t support me, why would anyone else want to be in it? I feel for Rob for being banned, it must absolutely suck. You could have every fan in the building as a trust member and it still wouldn’t give you any power over the club. It’s NB’s business, we are his customers. You wouldn’t walk into Tesco and set up a Tesco customers trust...you would be sued in seconds for using a commercial name for your organisation. Daring them to sue? I’m pretty sure they would have taken you to the cleaners mate. You don’t have a leg to stand on. You can’t say you represent the fan base as the numbers involved clearly don’t, you represent a tiny fraction of the fan base. The reason in my opinion he doesn’t want you having anything to do with the clubs name is purely down to representation and association. I have seen many tweets from the trust having sly digs at the Panthers. Why would they want their name associating with that? Why would they want to be associated with the trusts website? Panthers for all their sins uphold themselves in a very class manner on social media, they obviously can’t get into a shouting match with the trust over social media so the only other thing they can do is give silence. Going by the trust aims, one being to operate in a professional manner....fallen at the first hurdle. Again as a fan looking in, why would I want to be part of this? So for you to say the reason the trust has failed is down to the fans is plain wrong in my opinion.
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Karl
Jade Galbraith
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Post by Karl on Jan 20, 2018 4:42:30 GMT
Steve Jackson. My name is Pete Brooks and my mobile is 07767 265844. Mr Black knows this as well, as I’ve written to him via the club. As one of the original interim board members I was a joint malfeasor in the threatened legal action from Black’s solicitors. Rob was banned on a trumped up issue purely because he was the chair of the trust. As a joint malfeasor I have the original letter from Black’s solicitor. I haven’t gone public with it in case it DOES result in a lifelong ban for Rob - that is the only reason. For myself, after 28 years supporting the Panthers I’m not really bothered if I’m banned or not. I agree that the trust is failing - that is entirely due to the apathy of fans like you. Do you think Black could ban 500 fans? But no, lack of support from the very people the trust set out to represent killed it. That and, in my opinion, bad advice from the trust’s professional advisors. I would have kept the name Nottingham Panthers Supporters Trust and DARED Black to sue. What had we done wrong? Imagine the nationwide publicity “ Sports club sues supporters!” It was a trust for the supporters of the Nottingham Panthers! Legally the board were only liable for their share anyway - £1.00. The trust was forced to (on the face of it) widen it’s perspective because it was forced to change it’s name. Having invested hours of my own time and my own (not members) money in helping to get the trust up and running I strongly resent your inference that I am, to quote Sam Oakford, a keyboard warrior. Lets see YOU put some effort in. I am disgusted with the Panthers management, with Sevcik for not offering support, and pundits like you pontificating about something you know nothing about. DO YOUR RESEARCH - read the thread from the beginning! Furthermore regarding professionalism. TCW, the very same organisation you rubbished a few days ago, have long kept their professionalism in their dealings with the club and although it has taken time, I believe they have a breakthrough and are starting to get access.
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Post by vercingetorix1966 on Jan 20, 2018 10:04:14 GMT
Steve Jackson. My name is Pete Brooks and my mobile is 07767 265844. Mr Black knows this as well, as I’ve written to him via the club. As one of the original interim board members I was a joint malfeasor in the threatened legal action from Black’s solicitors. Rob was banned on a trumped up issue purely because he was the chair of the trust. As a joint malfeasor I have the original letter from Black’s solicitor. I haven’t gone public with it in case it DOES result in a lifelong ban for Rob - that is the only reason. For myself, after 28 years supporting the Panthers I’m not really bothered if I’m banned or not. I agree that the trust is failing - that is entirely due to the apathy of fans like you. Do you think Black could ban 500 fans? But no, lack of support from the very people the trust set out to represent killed it. That and, in my opinion, bad advice from the trust’s professional advisors. I would have kept the name Nottingham Panthers Supporters Trust and DARED Black to sue. What had we done wrong? Imagine the nationwide publicity “ Sports club sues supporters!” It was a trust for the supporters of the Nottingham Panthers! Legally the board were only liable for their share anyway - £1.00. The trust was forced to (on the face of it) widen it’s perspective because it was forced to change it’s name. Having invested hours of my own time and my own (not members) money in helping to get the trust up and running I strongly resent your inference that I am, to quote Sam Oakford, a keyboard warrior. Lets see YOU put some effort in. I am disgusted with the Panthers management, with Sevcik for not offering support, and pundits like you pontificating about something you know nothing about. DO YOUR RESEARCH - read the thread from the beginning! Furthermore regarding professionalism. TCW, the very same organisation you rubbished a few days ago, have long kept their professionalism in their dealings with the club and although it has taken time, I believe they have a breakthrough and are starting to get access. The aims of a Supporters trust and a few fans banding together to create a podcast are a false equivalency in my opinion. The only thing that unites them is a love of the Panthers. One talks about the perceived problems that many believe plague the organisation and the other tried to tackle them. As regards TCW reaping the benefits of their professionalism I still think this, if they do get better access in the future, is due to the actions of the trust. TCW themselves have said they requested players for interview in the past and were refused. I have no doubts Moran views them with distain but now possibly sees them as the lesser of two evils. Many joined the trust because they saw the complete lack of meaningful communication with the fans and hoped the trust could help change this. They did in an indirect way. It’s no accident the twitter feed suddenly became more active, detailed and engaging. If TCW get more access in future it’s because Moran sees it as another building block to appease the fan base and nothing to do with professionalism.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2018 10:27:57 GMT
The aim of the trust was not to “bend the Panthers to their own will”. It was to open up two way communication between fans and club, with the emphasis on two way. My disillusionment came from the Panthers hostile reaction to the trust. I must also point out that these are MY views and not those of the trust, and I am no longer associated with the trust, who, I believe, are still trying to engage with the club.
My idea of trust/club engagement, and I stress it’s just an example, would be to try to address the lack of atmosphere on match nights, nothing do with on-ice matters.
Anyway, I appreciate your point of view. Lets agree to differ.
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Karl
Jade Galbraith
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Post by Karl on Jan 20, 2018 10:39:44 GMT
Furthermore regarding professionalism. TCW, the very same organisation you rubbished a few days ago, have long kept their professionalism in their dealings with the club and although it has taken time, I believe they have a breakthrough and are starting to get access. The aims of a Supporters trust and a few fans banding together to create a podcast are a false equivalency in my opinion. The only thing that unites them is a love of the Panthers. One talks about the perceived problems that many believe plague the organisation and the other tried to tackle them. As regards TCW reaping the benefits of their professionalism I still think this, if they do get better access in the future, is due to the actions of the trust. TCW themselves have said they requested players for interview in the past and were refused. I have no doubts Moran views them with distain but now possibly sees them as the lesser of two evils. Many joined the trust because they saw the complete lack of meaningful communication with the fans and hoped the trust could help change this. They did in an indirect way. It’s no accident the twitter feed suddenly became more active, detailed and engaging. If TCW get more access in future it’s because Moran sees it as another building block to appease the fan base and nothing to do with professionalism. It had nothing to do with the trust, it has everything to do with the Panthers hiring Calum as social media manager.
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Karl
Jade Galbraith
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Post by Karl on Jan 20, 2018 10:40:00 GMT
The aim of the trust was not to “bend the Panthers to their own will”. It was to open up two way communication between fans and club, with the emphasis on two way. My disillusionment came from the Panthers hostile reaction to the trust. I must also point out that these are MY views and not those of the trust, and I am no longer associated with the trust, who, I believe, are still trying to engage with the club. My idea of trust/club engagement, and I stress it’s just an example, would be to try to address the lack of atmosphere on match nights, nothing do with on-ice matters. Anyway, I appreciate your point of view. Lets agree to differ. Appreciate your reply mate!
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Post by vercingetorix1966 on Jan 20, 2018 10:43:56 GMT
The aims of a Supporters trust and a few fans banding together to create a podcast are a false equivalency in my opinion. The only thing that unites them is a love of the Panthers. One talks about the perceived problems that many believe plague the organisation and the other tried to tackle them. As regards TCW reaping the benefits of their professionalism I still think this, if they do get better access in the future, is due to the actions of the trust. TCW themselves have said they requested players for interview in the past and were refused. I have no doubts Moran views them with distain but now possibly sees them as the lesser of two evils. Many joined the trust because they saw the complete lack of meaningful communication with the fans and hoped the trust could help change this. They did in an indirect way. It’s no accident the twitter feed suddenly became more active, detailed and engaging. If TCW get more access in future it’s because Moran sees it as another building block to appease the fan base and nothing to do with professionalism. It had nothing to do with the trust, it has everything to do with the Panthers hiring Calum as social media manager. Mate, you might believe the timing was pure coincidence. I’m a bit more cynical than that.
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