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Post by NickThePanther44 on Aug 4, 2017 15:17:02 GMT
Cardiff are stacked! They've managed to do something we completely bombed at, keep the core of a championship team and improve it!
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Post by wannabe2 on Aug 4, 2017 18:06:15 GMT
We are so so fortunate to have a beautiful City, a pretty neat Arena, awesome fans, and owners who are certainly second to none, a coach who is a winner for sure and a coach who players want to play for. For a few seasons now there was a top 3 in this league, it's a top 4 now for sure, with us punching above our weight with a 3K capacity.Our Conference is going to be very interesting to say the least.
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Post by kievthegreat on Aug 4, 2017 18:18:18 GMT
We are so so fortunate to have a beautiful City, a pretty neat Arena, awesome fans, and owners who are certainly second to none, a coach who is a winner for sure and a coach who players want to play for. For a few seasons now there was a top 3 in this league, it's a top 4 now for sure, with us punching above our weight with a 3K capacity.Our Conference is going to be very interesting to say the least. Isn't your arena rent free? I'd agree with much everything else you've said except I don't think your particularly punching above your weight when you get a rent free arena. Also worried about our conference, there is 4 teams who are going to be taking a tonne of points of each other. I know that a smaller portion of the season is conference games now, but I look at Manchester and MK and wonder if they can wrap up their conference and win the league whilst Panthers, Steelers, Devils & Giants trip each other up. Appreciate that's been the theory every year but one day it's gonna happen.
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Post by wannabe2 on Aug 4, 2017 18:33:35 GMT
You are spot on with our gaff being rent free, it certainly is a huge help, and is probably equivalent to adding another 8/900 on our gate taking us to probably 4,000 or equivalent to Braehead. Totally agree that we four could end up knocking the crap out of each other, leaving the way for some other pretender to waltz in. But as long as I get my money's worth in entertainment then that will be just dandy. Let's get it on.
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Post by PantherB on Aug 4, 2017 18:39:18 GMT
Allegedly the rent free agreement saves Devils around £300,000 per season compared to the other big 3 teams.
Good signing in Paul Crowder for Devils, seems to have a natural ability to perform well wherever he goes. I'm sure he'll have kept fit and ready in his year out too.
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Post by wannabe2 on Aug 4, 2017 19:03:32 GMT
200k would be more realistic to be honest considering the size of the Arena, it don't compare to you other guys Arena. It also don't accommodate any other entertainment than hockey, due to its size. Concerts etc don't even come into it. It's a hockey venue more or less full stop. If I wanted to hire our gaff then 6k would probably seal it.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Aug 4, 2017 20:15:10 GMT
Allegedly the rent free agreement saves Devils around £300,000 per season compared to the other big 3 teams. Good signing in Paul Crowder for Devils, seems to have a natural ability to perform well wherever he goes. I'm sure he'll have kept fit and ready in his year out too. A saving of £300k is only approx 20,000 tickets a season. Even taking that saving into account,Panthers are still 2000 tickets per game better off than the Devils. The difference in the two managements is.....one wants to win and the other isn't bothered whether it wins or not !
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Post by wannabe2 on Aug 4, 2017 20:18:56 GMT
Nail hit on head mate, absolutely defo. You guys in fairness should be pretty much untouchable. I don't get it myself.
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Post by dill1015 on Aug 4, 2017 20:32:32 GMT
I dont care what any of our fans say there is no justification for introducing cheque book hockey back into this country. It destroyed the top flight once and cant happen again.
I really hope Cardiff dont start the arms race. This years team looks expensive.
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Post by wannabe2 on Aug 4, 2017 20:38:45 GMT
All top 4/5/6 teams will be expensive, that's a fact of life. Panthers will want to be top, Devils will want to be top, Steelers will want to be top, Giants will want to be top, Clan will want to be top, To Do that you have to be the best, and that costs money.
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Post by wgray on Aug 4, 2017 20:59:25 GMT
When you look at Cardiffs depth it is quite scary, their forward lines look something like
Asselin Martin Pope Bentivolgio Ulmer Faryna Haddad Crowder Morrissette Batch Myers Moore
They've got Lord as their spare import forward who is a very, very good player to have as a spare. Then to top it off they've resigned Piggott, he will be 13th forward and will be pushing the rest of the Brit forwards for ice time, but if a defenceman gets injured Batch or Moore can fill in on defence and Piggott can take either of their places on the fourth line.
Lord has constructed a very good team with immense firepower and depth as well as giving great coverage in the case of injuries.
Cardiff are the team to beat so far.
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Post by dill1015 on Aug 4, 2017 21:25:59 GMT
All top 4/5/6 teams will be expensive, that's a fact of life. Panthers will want to be top, Devils will want to be top, Steelers will want to be top, Giants will want to be top, Clan will want to be top, To Do that you have to be the best, and that costs money. No doubt. But normally i can see where Panthers are as expensive as our rivals. This year though i cant see how anyone is spendimg more than you (unless you're getting some great deals on players). You have quality, depth and a bunch of championship re-signing. All that points to very expensive. I just hope it doesnt pysh other teams dont overstrech to compete.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Aug 4, 2017 21:58:41 GMT
I agree,this years Panthers roster "shouldn't" be expensive. Certainly not compared to some previous years. It's full of relatively average looking ECHL players and they should not cost the earth. Although they haven't signed a full team yet,looking at what they've signed so far I'd say Belfast are spending some serious money along with the Devils. Of the big four teams,I reckon this years Panthers roster will be the cheapest of the four.
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Doom
Greg Hadden
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Post by Doom on Aug 5, 2017 6:03:05 GMT
I dont care what any of our fans say there is no justification for introducing cheque book hockey back into this country. It destroyed the top flight once and cant happen again. I really hope Cardiff dont start the arms race. This years team looks expensive. It worries me that Cardiff are becoming very much like Manchester City and Chelsea. Whilst the rest of the league are having to run their clubs as a business, it looks like Cardiff are being bankrolled by rich owners. There is the danger this will destabilize the league, because other clubs will either fall behind and take the attendance hit or have to spend to keep up. I thought last season Cardiff probably had quite comfortably the most expensive roster, so to keep their top players, most of whom would undoubtedly want a pay rise due to the success, and improve on that roster looks like they've taken the spending to a new level. My mate has done some goal scoring stats similar to something I used to do. He has us (Sheffield) and Nottingham very similar, but Cardiff are miles ahead. Regards Doom
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Post by texpef on Aug 5, 2017 7:28:35 GMT
At £15 a ticket they would need to see 600 tickets to raise £9000 which I would think a conservative estimate of the rental costs at approx 30 games probably more that's £270,000 so not unreasonable to say they are £300,000 better off but in real terms that's a small amount of cash compared to the multi millions panthers deal in..
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Shorty
Paul Adey
Still here for Private Messages
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Post by Shorty on Aug 5, 2017 9:29:25 GMT
Good old cheque book hockey. I'm sure Steeler fans will be an authority on this.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Aug 5, 2017 11:04:11 GMT
The big teams are spending yes,but certainly in Panthers case,we're a long way from cheque book hockey. An average crowd Panthers game must gross something around £70k in tickets alone. Yet they probably spend no more than £15k a week on player wages. And there are more games than one per week,but the players get the same wage whether they play once or even twice a week at home. That still leaves a massive sum remaining to cover other costs and make a very very good profit.
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Post by dill1015 on Aug 5, 2017 11:33:54 GMT
The big teams are spending yes,but certainly in Panthers case,we're a long way from cheque book hockey. An average crowd Panthers game must gross something around £70k in tickets alone. Yet they probably spend no more than £15k a week on player wages. And there are more games than one per week,but the players get the same wage whether they play once or even twice a week at home. That still leaves a massive sum remaining to cover other costs and make a very very good profit. Good, clubs should be run in a sustainable fashion.
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Post by dill1015 on Aug 5, 2017 11:51:53 GMT
I dont care what any of our fans say there is no justification for introducing cheque book hockey back into this country. It destroyed the top flight once and cant happen again. I really hope Cardiff dont start the arms race. This years team looks expensive. It worries me that Cardiff are becoming very much like Manchester City and Chelsea. Whilst the rest of the league are having to run their clubs as a business, it looks like Cardiff are being bankrolled by rich owners. There is the danger this will destabilize the league, because other clubs will either fall behind and take the attendance hit or have to spend to keep up. I thought last season Cardiff probably had quite comfortably the most expensive roster, so to keep their top players, most of whom would undoubtedly want a pay rise due to the success, and improve on that roster looks like they've taken the spending to a new level. My mate has done some goal scoring stats similar to something I used to do. He has us (Sheffield) and Nottingham very similar, but Cardiff are miles ahead. Regards Doom What numbers did he have for goals out of interest?
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Aug 5, 2017 12:03:21 GMT
The big teams are spending yes,but certainly in Panthers case,we're a long way from cheque book hockey. An average crowd Panthers game must gross something around £70k in tickets alone. Yet they probably spend no more than £15k a week on player wages. And there are more games than one per week,but the players get the same wage whether they play once or even twice a week at home. That still leaves a massive sum remaining to cover other costs and make a very very good profit. Good, clubs should be run in a sustainable fashion. I agree totally,they should. But as a Panthers fan,it's very irritating when you see your team spending let's say 15% of income on players,when a team like the Devils who get half our crowd,spends maybe 40% of their income and signs what most people are seeing as a better quality team. There comes a point where you think,hang on a minute,we should be using our spending power a bit more and were not ! On the other hand,if you're a Devils fan,you're happy as Larry !!
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Post by dill1015 on Aug 5, 2017 12:42:38 GMT
Good, clubs should be run in a sustainable fashion. I agree totally,they should. But as a Panthers fan,it's very irritating when you see your team spending let's say 15% of income on players,when a team like the Devils who get half our crowd,spends maybe 40% of their income and signs what most people are seeing as a better quality team. There comes a point where you think,hang on a minute,we should be using our spending power a bit more and were not ! On the other hand,if you're a Devils fan,you're happy as Larry !! Just because you can doesnt mean you should! If Panthers did what you wanted we'd love it for 2/3 seasons then the league would collapse. Then everyones unhappy. Everybody wants hockey to be better and bigger in this country. But your not going to get there if the big teams go around doing whatever they feel like regardless of the concequences. I think Neil Black deserves some credit in this regard because it would have been very easy for him over the years to "buy" sucess. Instead hes done it right and built a sustainable product where Panthers are always one of the big teams. He amd others hve done a huge amount for hockey in this country. And i dont want to see all the hard work of the last 15 years ruined, because teams start splashing the cash. The smaller teams will send money they havnt got to compete. We've seen it before and i dont want to see it again.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Aug 5, 2017 12:56:19 GMT
I agree totally,they should. But as a Panthers fan,it's very irritating when you see your team spending let's say 15% of income on players,when a team like the Devils who get half our crowd,spends maybe 40% of their income and signs what most people are seeing as a better quality team. There comes a point where you think,hang on a minute,we should be using our spending power a bit more and were not ! On the other hand,if you're a Devils fan,you're happy as Larry !! Just because you can doesnt mean you should! If Panthers did what you wanted we'd love it for 2/3 seasons then the league would collapse. Then everyones unhappy. Everybody wants hockey to be better and bigger in this country. But your not going to get there if the big teams go around doing whatever they feel like regardless of the concequences. I think Neil Black deserves some credit in this regard because it would have been very easy for him over the years to "buy" sucess. Instead hes done it right and built a sustainable product where Panthers are always one of the big teams. He amd others hve done a huge amount for hockey in this country. And i dont want to see all the hard work of the last 15 years ruined, because teams start splashing the cash. The smaller teams will send money they havnt got to compete. We've seen it before and i dont want to see it again. I can see what you're saying. And I'm not expecting Mr Black to spend an extra half a million £s blowing everybody out of the water every year. But it would be nice to repay the loyal Panthers fans at least once in a while I mean come on,what's our league record the last four years....4th,5th,4th,5th was it or something like that. It's poor,very poor for a team like Panthers.
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Post by ashfieldpanther on Aug 5, 2017 13:09:53 GMT
the problem as I see it with splashing cash is that you leave yourself with nowhere to go. You sign players on big wages, if they do well either you have to spend even more next year to keep those players, or if they move on then you have to spend just as much to replace them, with no guarantee that the replacements will be as good. For example, the Championship winning side was replaced with players not as good, but I bet they cost just as much as the team they replaced. Far better IMO to set a sustainable budget and stick to it.
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Post by dill1015 on Aug 5, 2017 13:15:57 GMT
Just because you can doesnt mean you should! If Panthers did what you wanted we'd love it for 2/3 seasons then the league would collapse. Then everyones unhappy. Everybody wants hockey to be better and bigger in this country. But your not going to get there if the big teams go around doing whatever they feel like regardless of the concequences. I think Neil Black deserves some credit in this regard because it would have been very easy for him over the years to "buy" sucess. Instead hes done it right and built a sustainable product where Panthers are always one of the big teams. He amd others hve done a huge amount for hockey in this country. And i dont want to see all the hard work of the last 15 years ruined, because teams start splashing the cash. The smaller teams will send money they havnt got to compete. We've seen it before and i dont want to see it again. I can see what you're saying. And I'm not expecting Mr Black to spend an extra half a million £s blowing everybody out of the water every year. But it would be nice to repay the loyal Panthers fans at least once in a while I mean come on,what's our league record the last four years....4th,5th,4th,5th was it or something like that. It's poor,very poor for a team like Panthers. No its not good enough but i dont think money is the real reason we consistently under perform in the league. We wouldnt have won the number of cups we have if we signed cheap teams. Factors such as: -Signing unbalanced teams -Signing old players -Signing injury prone players -Sticking with under performing players too long -Club culture that doesnt put league first -Bringing in players who arent committed Are all far bigger causes to our league problems than spending. This years team on paper looks like its breaking alot of those trends and normally id put as a easy favorites. Unfortunatley we've run into a devils team this year that looks frankly ridiculous. So for me we are number two... on paper.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Aug 5, 2017 21:25:13 GMT
I can see what you're saying. And I'm not expecting Mr Black to spend an extra half a million £s blowing everybody out of the water every year. But it would be nice to repay the loyal Panthers fans at least once in a while I mean come on,what's our league record the last four years....4th,5th,4th,5th was it or something like that. It's poor,very poor for a team like Panthers. No its not good enough but i dont think money is the real reason we consistently under perform in the league. We wouldnt have won the number of cups we have if we signed cheap teams. Factors such as: -Signing unbalanced teams -Signing old players -Signing injury prone players -Sticking with under performing players too long -Club culture that doesnt put league first -Bringing in players who arent committed Are all far bigger causes to our league problems than spending. This years team on paper looks like its breaking alot of those trends and normally id put as a easy favorites. Unfortunatley we've run into a devils team this year that looks frankly ridiculous. So for me we are number two... on paper. I would agree. And most of those factors point to the coach........Which is why Neilson should have gone two years ago !
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