Shaggy
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Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Jan 28, 2007 17:41:27 GMT
can ijust ask oldman, whatwas then most entertain bit of last nights match. with out doubt it got to of been the payette incident, thenoise in the arena at that time would prove that. Hmmm... not sure that follows. Maximum noise does not necessarily mean maximum entertainment.Plenty of people were expressing a seriously negative opinion of Payette.... is that the definition of entertainment? I don't think so...
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Post by rangers on Jan 28, 2007 17:42:41 GMT
OK. my tuppance worth. Mcaslan broke the rule when he scored after the whistle. Any enforcer would have done what payette did after that. I've seen it in NHL games(ZT era), and sean got what he deserved. What payette did after that was indefensable(sp), stupid, and deserves any ban he might get. But Moran was out of order as well. In the last match between the 2 clubs at NIC, Smear shouted at payette at the end of a period, and after payette tried to reach him, smear got a 2 minute unsportsmanlike penalty. Moran got nothing. Same offence, same ref, no call. Which sums up the disgrace that was dave cloutman last night. He appeared to be calling the MobilX Vipers according to ZT, and panthers with lots of tolerance. This year i was giving refs the benefit of the doubt, but that man cost us the game last night. There was a blatant hook on a viper right in front of me and the 'ref', and he called nothing. When the high stick was called, again right in front of me, he was looking completely the other way. The stick was not high. The panther was just bent over. Farce. Rasti lashed out at weaver when a panther pushed jonny into the crease. Nothing. I've seen Tommi Satosaari get chucked out for a lot less. Wilson, Ferone, Lobby, Robbo, Mihalik were right in whatever they said to him. He should NEVER be allowed anywhere near ice again. Even in his drinks. The last two periods made me proud to be a Viper fan. Down to 13 skaters(i think) including goalies, against a virtually full strength panthers team, playing with the ref on the home side. Pure hard work, grit and detrermination. Paul Ferone was, fantastic. Best player out there. cory, shuggy, weaves, robbo were fantastic too. And it was a great gesture of St Jimmy at the end to signal where his heart really lies to the viper fans. If I were Ellis, this week work on special teams might be in order... Cardarelli looked sharper than when i last saw him, and the d looked much better with Rees back-wouldn't mind three of your defence guys on our team next year.
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oldman
Simon Hunt
The World is full of experts
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Post by oldman on Jan 28, 2007 17:50:49 GMT
thanks for the very balanced report totally unbiased, although you do admit that andre was out of order, to be fair i have seen cloutman have good or bad games he is though a fair guy, unlike about three i could mention. Bonni,cars, hans etc and if rasti is sticking up for himself good for him,
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Post by rangers on Jan 28, 2007 17:58:23 GMT
In fairness to cloutman, you guys probably should have had a penalty shot, but he failed to give it. He didn't only make mistakes that benifitted you guys...
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88Panfuz4
Jade Galbraith
"Their goaile is standing on his bleddy head"
Posts: 160
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Post by 88Panfuz4 on Jan 28, 2007 18:05:52 GMT
You said ---- 1) I think that post generalises the whole of the Vipers fan base which travelled down to Nottingham Yesterday.
2) However, I do know some of the people your targetting. In my eyes, what I saw was two lads sitting in Block 4 one Blonde one, and one in a Red England top. The two groups where having a go at time to time and getting a bit OTT shall we say. The Vipers lot where a tipsy after a session but infairness its all good banter between the fans I mean I doubt many fans would take it that far anyway.
3) I can remember that game against the Panther up at the Metro Arena, the reason why that happens is because they need to get the atmosphere going in the place - its like a morgue! It is cheap, but I think as travelling fans we should treat it as a bit of banter. I say1) If I offended you then I apologise, yes I did generalise, but I have only had bad experience of Vipers fans I'm sorry to say. If as you say you aren't like the rest of those morons, then you are in a minority I'm afraid. 2) The lads in block 4, you are correct and my daughter went to tell a steward about them and that they were out of order baiting the Vipers kids. Self policing of your own fans, suggest it to Vipers organisation? 3) There are other ways to "get the crowd going" We did it last night and I can't remember the announcer saying, "any noise from the SNAKES" Can you? Get real!
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88Panfuz4
Jade Galbraith
"Their goaile is standing on his bleddy head"
Posts: 160
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Post by 88Panfuz4 on Jan 28, 2007 18:09:11 GMT
Well done Panthers on another good solid win against the Muppet show from the North East. Goodbye Geordies, I hope the trip back on the team (12 seater) minibus wasn't too comfortable. Now who's the class act? Imbecile. Imbecile, hahahahahaha. Cool
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88Panfuz4
Jade Galbraith
"Their goaile is standing on his bleddy head"
Posts: 160
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Post by 88Panfuz4 on Jan 28, 2007 18:12:07 GMT
you are all so mature with these comments. as for payette being scared to fight shmry, i dont think so, you whole team is scared of him. And as for thoes comments by 88panthers fan, i think they're out of order bout newcastle, lighten up we do it how we like it in our arena and as for you critisising geordies and our city, i think you want to consider the gun laiden city you live in hypocrit (and steriotyper) look 88 was out of order so if you disaprove why reply in the same manner, whenever you vipers fans get on any forum the majority of you are so aggresive a bit like your team why! We do try to maintain a family atmosphere at the nic so if there was all this bad language the stewards should remove them if they were doing their job. Could you elaborate why I was "out of order?" You hit the nail on the head, Vipers team and SOME fans can't do anything without aggression. I thought one of them (wearing a Dexy's Midnight runners hat) was going to explode he was that wound up, and then the game faced off I was expecting to see allsorts of sawdust spill out of his head! gun laiden city you live in hypocrit - That'll be "gun LADEN city you live in HYPOCRITE (and STEREOTYPER)" BANG BANG!
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Post by cornish22 on Jan 28, 2007 18:28:24 GMT
It's nice to see some Newcastle players being given some of their own poor back and us not bowing down to their (attempted) intimidation. The only thing missing was to see Ryan go after Cornish and shut the guy up. But the game was too close to lose Ryan. I guess that shows the gulf in difference between the two. I used to like Cornish but not after last night. He picks a known non-fighter in Corey who was trying to get his team back into the game. Go after Shmyr if you want a fight. thats priceless He picks a non fighter in Neilson -- were me eyes deceiving me or did Corny not drop a glove in Shymrs face and ask him to go???
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88Panfuz4
Jade Galbraith
"Their goaile is standing on his bleddy head"
Posts: 160
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Post by 88Panfuz4 on Jan 28, 2007 18:29:37 GMT
3-2, 3rd in the league. Facts. Go Caps -
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DoUrden
Ken Westman
Squash Them Sheep
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Post by DoUrden on Jan 28, 2007 18:33:58 GMT
3-2, 3rd in the league. Facts. Go Caps - There may well be an element of idiots in Vipers fan base but you're proving the point very well that we have our fair share of them too. Enough of this thread I think before it gets any more out of hand than it already is.
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MP
Paul Adey
Hail hurts and rain is cold. Summer in the mountains
Posts: 6,811
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Post by MP on Jan 29, 2007 9:01:31 GMT
OK - after a cooling off period we'll unlock this thread again in case anyone has considered (relevant) thoughts to add regarding Saturdays game.
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Warren
Greg Hadden
Posts: 1,467
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Post by Warren on Jan 29, 2007 10:57:36 GMT
Cheers MP.
Been thinking long and hard about this one. The main culprit is Cloutman. The amount of penalties missed is unreal. Macca deserved his 10mins. I Saw the lino's arm and think I herd a whistle but can't be sure. As for the attack by Payette, well I can see why it would happen. What annoys me is when coultman missed the "fight" both players deserved at Least 2+2 for roughing. (both swinging, not sure if the gloves were off, if they were then 5mins each). Then the incident as he left the ice. I think that it is a match penalty if you fail to leave the ice on a game penalty. Diverting your course to engage another player is definitely failing to leave the ice.
Shmyr deserved at least 2 mins for instigating the 2nd fight. (although this could be waved off for a good chicken impression) From my angle in block 11, Andre wanted Shmyr, threw a punch at him, Shmyr threw one back (another missed penalty for Shmyr, fighting whilst on the bench is a game misconduct). Again from my angle, mopes did the right thing. He dropped the gloves (AGAIN missed by Cloutman) and went with Payette. My thinking behind this was Mopes could take the 5 mins for the fight, Shmyr would be forgotten about (In retrospect, we could of got the whole bench to wrap sticks around Payette's head and it wouldn't of been called)
Yes Matt Lobby did drop the gloves when Andre went for the bench, which is again 2 mins. (MISSED by Cloutman) Allegedly Cornish hit Wilson as he tried to leave the bench, but this is hearsay so couldn't comment. I did see Cornish get on the ice during the mopes/shmyr/payette tussle (AGAIN MISSED by coultman)
IF Cloutman had reffed the game with ZT then it would have been a different game. From my perspective Vipers played gritty / borderline goon hockey. (way too much slashing, roughing etc but if your not going to get called, then why not?)
2 Final Points…
1 - When will a ref call a Net minder for delay of the game when going to the bench? A net minder is only allowed to the bench in a stoppage of play in 2 cases. A. to be replaced by another player (backup Net minder or extra skater) or B. during a timeout. Another time it is delay of the game.
2. I'm glad Cloutman didn't call everything. updating IH on Saturday was bad enough with what he did call let alone if called it correctly (I'm dreading a bench clearance)
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Post by Lord of the Rinks on Jan 29, 2007 14:29:38 GMT
It's nice to see some Newcastle players being given some of their own poor back and us not bowing down to their (attempted) intimidation. The only thing missing was to see Ryan go after Cornish and shut the guy up. But the game was too close to lose Ryan. I guess that shows the gulf in difference between the two. I used to like Cornish but not after last night. He picks a known non-fighter in Corey who was trying to get his team back into the game. Go after Shmyr if you want a fight. thats priceless He picks a non fighter in Neilson -- were me eyes deceiving me or did Corny not drop a glove in Shymrs face and ask him to go??? I saw Cornish drop one glove, it appeared that he and Shmyr agreed to go, so Corny dropped his glove. But it was priceless to see Shmyr skate off after the puck leaving Corny to pick up his glove wondering what had happened. ;D
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Post by currymonster666 on Jan 29, 2007 15:50:21 GMT
very good game apart from the 2nd period
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matt44
David Clarke
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Post by matt44 on Jan 29, 2007 16:16:12 GMT
As I have said before - why would Shmyr bother fighting with Cornish again after knocking him on his arse once before?? Unless Cornish starts hacking away at our guys Shmyr has no reason whatsoever.
Escpecially as Ryan is now playing well on our top line.......he's much more valuable than Cornish who, lets face it, is nothing more than a poor skating goon who sucks at hockey! And thats being nice!
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pk26
Jade Galbraith
Come with us. We see the light
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Post by pk26 on Jan 29, 2007 16:51:51 GMT
Very good game apart from the second. Especially to fight back in third and win after we looked half dead. Not to be another moaner but I seriously think Payette has something wrong with him. I mean he put it in the goal. who cares? It doesn't count and then to do the thing attacking someone from behind. Also to go for our bench just trying to get shmyr (who would easily batter him) to fight him. I like Moran for just standing there not scared too. But come on now |Andre Payette 269| 269 penalty minutes!!! 56 ahead of any1 else. I seriously hope he gets banned for that because that just wasn't right at all. I mean yh i like fights but do it against someone who wants it and not from behind. be Fair
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Post by Rob #12 on Jan 29, 2007 21:35:31 GMT
It's nice to see some Newcastle players being given some of their own poor back and us not bowing down to their (attempted) intimidation. The only thing missing was to see Ryan go after Cornish and shut the guy up. But the game was too close to lose Ryan. I guess that shows the gulf in difference between the two. I used to like Cornish but not after last night. He picks a known non-fighter in Corey who was trying to get his team back into the game. Go after Shmyr if you want a fight. thats priceless He picks a non fighter in Neilson -- were me eyes deceiving me or did Corny not drop a glove in Shymrs face and ask him to go??? Not being funny Paul but come on, you really aren't doing you or your client any favours with your posts. Not just this post, but mainly others. If you check your post history, nearly all are going on about enofrcer this, fight that. You know I like a good fight as much as the next guy, but we both know that you know more about the other aspects of this game, so engage them. To be honest I didn't see Corny go for Ryan except during the Payetter outburst. Ryan either feels there is nothing to prove by fighting him or it was the wrong time to fight. My guess is a mix of both. But either way, Shmyr is our enforcer, not Neilson. You don't go after player just looking for trouble. Maybe he was trying to get Neilson off the ice, but I am glad Corey chose to stay on the ice. Because we won, and Cornish, Payette, Gobby Longstaff and the Vipers lost. Well done lads!
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BJ
Pat Casey
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Post by BJ on Jan 29, 2007 22:26:27 GMT
Highlights are on east midlands today click the 'watch now' button in the top right corner and forward to 21.39. Includes Payette's 'red mist'. Note: It'll only be there for 24 hours
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Post by Rob #12 on Jan 29, 2007 23:04:04 GMT
The woman news reader:
"That's outrageous!"
hahaha
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
Posts: 10,995
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Post by Shaggy on Jan 29, 2007 23:34:36 GMT
Interesting seeing that from a different angle to my view from Block 15.... not so much Payette's blindsiding of McAslan, more his charge at our bench. From my angle, it had looked as if Paul Moran had sort of counter-charged Donkey, when in fact he seemed more to have been run over! (Shows Donkey's mentality - or lack thereof - that he's going after Shmyr, but will settle for pounding on the first Panther who gets in his way...). That explains why Mopes didn't get a seat in the sin-bin... I was expecting him to have been penalised for sure.
It's a pity that the video doesn't show one thing - the look on Payette's face when he saw Shmyr doing the Birdie Dance to him.... we are talking total nutjob here - I mean, he just completely lost it!
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Post by rangers on Jan 30, 2007 18:36:26 GMT
Shmyrs menatlity is also interesting. He knows Payette will go in normal games. Andre and him were scuffling in warm up, and i suspect that Payette turned a fight down on the basis we were very short benched. Payette then plays the enforcer role with a fight on the spur of the moment, rather than the pantomime rubbish that most teams have served up this year. Payette then shouldn't fight after being ejected-and smear knows it. So what was he trying to achieve? Typical of both Shmyrs i have seen play.
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oldman
Simon Hunt
The World is full of experts
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Post by oldman on Jan 30, 2007 19:32:47 GMT
surely rangers what is ryan supposed to do, ever heard the aussies sledging our pathetic cricket side , also as a vipers fan you would think a experienced guy like the donkey would be able to not lose it. but suppose the chance of a cheap shot on macca was an opportunity he could not resist hey.
the fact that donkey had a go at moran was hardly down to ryan doing the funky chicken but down to the fact that the donkey is 2 or 3 cans short of a sixpack and Moran is an easy target.
What this shows is that for the sake of the team it is better to be a clever enforcer than a donkey hey!
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Post by Lord of the Rinks on Jan 30, 2007 20:31:23 GMT
I suppose Payette thought Cote was an easy target last season, but got a shock when he went for him. I think his weight won him that one, but Cote got a few punches to Andre's mush.
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oldman
Simon Hunt
The World is full of experts
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Post by oldman on Jan 30, 2007 21:16:08 GMT
yeah forgot that lord case of the biter,bit hey, shame is that the donkey can be a good player as seen in the play off finals, but a total prat and a liability to the vipers sometimes.
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matt44
David Clarke
Posts: 3,085
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Post by matt44 on Jan 30, 2007 21:23:38 GMT
yeah forgot that lord case of the biter,bit hey, shame is that the donkey can be a good player as seen in the play off finals, but a total prat and a liability to the vipers sometimes. I completely agree. IF he left all the idiot stuff to Cornish and just concerntrated on playing he'd be great. But instead his fuse is WAY too short and as a result he's a complete liability to any team he plays on, escpecially in the ZT era.
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