Steelers sign Danny Bois

[Mozzy]

Nov 20, 2014 13:30:08 GMT texpef said:

Panthers have tonnes of sponsors wonder what happens to all that money?..

You need to ask Neil Black that.......

[Doom]

Nov 20, 2014 12:42:22 GMT fishman said:

What about 2012/13 Panthers dream team, did that cost to much money to put together??

And for Doom is Ben O'connor the the most expensive Brit in the League and who did he replace !

Ben O'Connor is the only addition to our roster, but I've no idea whether he's the most expensive Brit, although I'd certainly expect him to be up there with the likes of Dowd and Clarke.

We're not carrying any spare imports this season, so at least that's a cost we've not got, whereas I think last season at times we had 2 or 3 additional imports on the books due to the amount of early season injuries we suffered.

Regards

Doom

[Doom]

Nov 20, 2014 13:33:41 GMT Mozzy said:

Nov 20, 2014 13:30:08 GMT texpef said:

Panthers have tonnes of sponsors wonder what happens to all that money?..

You need to ask Neil Black that.......

Probably gone towards the 17 imports they've had this season so far.

Regards

Doom

[iginla]

We are comparing apples with apples Forney.

There are a maximum of 33 home games.....IF you include all league,challenge cup quarter and semi finals and play off quarter final games.

You say you are playing 8 games at Ice Sheffiield,so that leaves 25 for the season ticket.
So that means all your challenge cup and play off games all need to be included on the season ticket.....that's a lot of lost revenue compared to Panthers.

At the end of the day,to me it's not about what Steelers spend,I don't care what they spend,it's about looking what Steelers ARE spending bearing in mind all the ice problems and lower crowds etc compared to what Panthers are NOT spending when we have not had problems and our crowd average is 2000 approx above yours.

Call me cynical if you like,but it doesn't add up in either Sheffield or Nottingham !

[Thomas Elliott]

Nov 19, 2014 14:22:20 GMT iginla said:

Slade.
How many East Euros do you see Sheffield and Belfast sign,they don't because the majority of those guys don't cut it over here,they are either poor quality,a problem to deal with or will not play the system required....that sums up Liscak,Golicic,Nemorovsky,Krulis,Magdosko,Ivan or Kalus perfectly.
How many of those players other than Kalus were any good or did we re-sign ?
None of them,that says a lot.

We all deal with the same agents etc,it's not totally some hushed up closed shop,if Sheffield sign somebody it is almost certain in most cases we could probably have signed him too.

As for Parent,go check because I think you will find he was injured last year,Tvrdon too had come off a previous bad injury.
With Lee it's anybody's guess,but it is felt within the camp that he was injured before he even got here.

You will always get the odd exception like Francis yes,in his case believe it or not a £250 a week exception the first season,however in general you don't get much if you buy cheap and more often than not,if you pay cheap you buy twice !

Sheffield have had 21 Euros in their 24 seasons. 0.875 Euros a season
Belfast have had 4 in their 15 seasons. 0.27 Euros a season
Panthers have had 45 in their 68 seasons. 0.66 Euros a season

To say the majority of the guys don't cut is a huge generalisation... You haven't mentioned any of the good Euros, apart from Kalus, and technically what makes them good? You're basing a lot of your opinions on statistics, with that in mind, can Marek Ivan really be considered a bad player? He had more points than Kalus. I didn't particuarly like him, but it's a decent point production.
As for how many don't get re-signed, what about all the Canadians and Americans that are only here for one year or less? To single out the Europeans as cheap and not very good like this seems silly to me.

By basing the following on stats I'd say that:

Marek Ivan - Good
Petr Kalus - Good
Jan Krajicek - Good (Arguably very good)
Jan Krulis - Good
Angel Nikolov - Good
Ladislav Kudrna - Good
Podlesak - Bad (Only played 2 games)
Jaroslav Sevcik - Good (Arguably very good. 18 points in 7 games)
Martin Tuma - Bad (Only played 12 games)
Rastislav Rovnianek - Good (Arguably very good)
Robert Stancok - Good
Robert Liscak - Bad (Only played 4 games)
Jan Magdosko - Bad
Matus Petricko - Average
Roman Tvrdon - Good (Only played 9 games)
Sergei Gavrilenko - Bad (Only played 2 games)
Konstantin Kalmikov - Average (had similar stats to Petricko)
Blaz Emersic - Good
Jurij Golicic - Bad (Only played 6 games)
Martins Raitums - Good (Only played 2 games in CHL so hard to judge really)
Mikhail Nemirovsky - Bad (Only played 2 games)

So that's 12 Good, 2 Average & 7 bad from our Eastern Europeans. So statistically 2/3 of them are not cheap or poor quality.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of none contact hockey, and I love a good scrap, more than most, but I just found your post about Panthers only signing cheap European players inaccurate, in my opinion of course.

I'm sure we do deal with the same agents, but who's to say that these players (and human beings) don't have other things in their lives that dictate where they end up? Not everyone wants to come and play for the mighty Nottingham Panthers in the Wolrd Famous/Fabulous Capital FM Arena. Some might want more money than we're willing to offer, or get better perks that swing it for them. Some players' wives get jobs in the offices, schooling, expenses, cars, bigger homes, shopping bills paid for etc, it's not just the X amount that they get paid by the club for their wages.

Max Parent played 46 games last season split between AHL & ECHL. Seems he might have been injured for a bit last season, but nothing overly serious I don't recall (genuinely can't remember) Billy Ryan had a couple of bad injuries in the couple of years leading up to him signing for us, I think his knees were his problem, can't remember though, and he did alright for us. I didn't like him as much as most fans, he gave the puck up in horrible areas more than occassionally for me.
Tvrdon played 60 games the season before he signed for us, so couldn't have been overly injured unless it was a bad one at the end of his season split between the AHL and NHL.

The other thing with buying "cheap", like we all know what these guys are on and what constitutes a good salary or a bad salary in our league, is that it is exactly that... It's cheap, so you can afford to give these guys a chance with the hope of uncovering a gem. What would be the point on spending big and signing a big name player on a big budget only for them to disappoint (there's obviously plenty in this team that we have this season judging by the comments I've read)

[Thomas Elliott]

Nov 19, 2014 15:56:17 GMT PantherG said:

Nov 19, 2014 15:47:58 GMT @pidge said:

Thats exactly what will happen, as they know panthers will do it and there teams can t afford to fly all over the place, it will be groundhog day i ll put a good amount of money down on this !

If this does turn out to the be the case then I won't be renewing my season ticket tbh. Not because I expect us to win everything, every year... but I do expect a club likes ours to have a good go at it, bring in the best players we can and challenge to the end.

So being 2 points off the top with 2 games in hand doesn't constitute having a "good go at it" or "challenging to the end"? It's November!!

[Shorty]

Chris Murray is a prime example of people only selecting what sits with their views.

Did not play the season before he came to us. Was superb and got snapped up to play in Germany.

"Chris Murray (born December 26, 1984) is an American professional ice hockey defenseman who is currently playing with the Bietigheim Steelers in the German DEL2. He previously played for the Charlotte Checkers in the American Hockey League after two seasons within the New Jersey Devils minor league affiliate's.

In the end of the 2011–12 season with the Checkers, Murray was injured and was forced to sit out the following season in recovery. On July 18, 2013, Murray marked his return by signing a one-year contract with English club, the Nottingham Panthers of the Elite Ice Hockey League."

[Thomas Elliott]

Nov 19, 2014 15:38:58 GMT PantherG said:

Whilst I am disappointed in how this season is goingquote]

Is being 2 points off the top disappointing so early in the season? The matches might not be the most exciting or inspiring, but we've still obviously done just as well as our rivals at the top.

[Ian]

Nov 20, 2014 13:57:22 GMT Thomas Elliott said:

Sheffield have had 21 Euros in their 24 seasons. 0.875 Euros a season
Belfast have had 4 in their 15 seasons. 0.27 Euros a season
Panthers have had 45 in their 68 seasons. 0.66 Euros a season

I don't dispute your general point. Good, bad and indifferent players from all parts of the world over the years. There is a perception that European players are less effective in the North American style of the British game but that's not always borne out by the evidence (off the top of my head Ahlroos, Koivonouro, Krajicek, Emersic are just a few who did well for several teams in the UK, not just Panthers).

What I do question is your statistics as quoted above. Out of those 68 years, there was a 20-year period when Panthers didn't even play, so right away that's 45 Euros in 48 seasons, which already puts us ahead of the other two teams you mention. Add in the fact that loads of our years were in an era where travel was nowhere near as easy as today, and Eastern Europe was part of the Soviet bloc where people were not allowed to leave to go to the West. If we look at the period since 1989 when leaving Eastern Europe became a viable option for most players - and ensuring the comparison covers a similar period to the existence of the other teams you're comparing with - the number will be way higher than Sheffield or Belfast.

[Doom]

Nov 20, 2014 13:57:37 GMT iginla said:

We are comparing apples with apples Forney.

There are a maximum of 33 home games.....IF you include all league,challenge cup quarter and semi finals and play off quarter final games.

You say you are playing 8 games at Ice Sheffiield,so that leaves 25 for the season ticket.
So that means all your challenge cup and play off games all need to be included on the season ticket.....that's a lot of lost revenue compared to Panthers.

At the end of the day,to me it's not about what Steelers spend,I don't care what they spend,it's about looking what Steelers ARE spending bearing in mind all the ice problems and lower crowds etc compared to what Panthers are NOT spending when we have not had problems and our crowd average is 2000 approx above yours.

Call me cynical if you like,but it doesn't add up in either Sheffield or Nottingham !

The season ticket holders were always going to get 25 games, so it doesn't matter which particular games they get, although with the rearranged schedule I guess they'll now end up with more midweek fixtures than they would initially have anticipated.

The season ticket money was banked before the season started, the overall financial impact of the off ice issues will depend on:

1. The number of paying customers we've lost due to losing a couple of weekend dates and putting an extra game or two on at Ice Sheffield, partly offset by

2. The saving we get by using Ice Sheffield.

At a guess I would say the overall impact of the revised schedule has possible cost us 4,000 to 5,000 paying customers, which I assume will be in the region of £40,000 to £50,000.

I think Ice Sheffield is at least £10,000 cheaper to rent than the arena, so by putting an extra couple of games on there we may have saved £20,000.

No doubt it will have cost us financially, my guess being £20,000 to £30,000. Fortunately this season we have the best fixture schedule we've had in a long time, so if the team perform on the ice I can see our crowds being very healthy and that early season loss being comfortably covered by increased attendances through the rest of the season.

The other thing we don't know is if SIV have given us a better deal on rental for the revised fixtures, due to it being a problem of their making.

Regards

Doom

[iginla]

Slade.

How about we compare the current era from say 2001-2014.
Both teams were "big boys" since then and Belfast were in existence too,therefore a much more accurate comparison.
Comparing us from 60 years ago until today is even worse than trying to compare us to Edinburgh now.

I would take issue with you classing Krulis as good.....he was poor.
And as for Marek Ivan,he wasn't a bad player,but was a truly awful guy,described by Nick Boynton as "the most horrible guy he had ever met in hockey" and was also nearly put through the dressing room wall one morning by Steve McKenna for being racist !

[Thomas Elliott]

Nov 20, 2014 14:41:45 GMT iginla said:

Slade.

How about we compare the current era from say 2001-2014.
Both teams were "big boys" since then and Belfast were in existence too,therefore a much more accurate comparison.
Comparing us from 60 years ago until today is even worse than trying to compare us to Edinburgh now.

I would take issue with you classing Krulis as good.....he was poor.
And as for Marek Ivan,he wasn't a bad player,but was a truly awful guy,described by Nick Boynton as "the most horrible guy he had ever met in hockey" and was also nearly put through the dressing room wall one morning by Steve McKenna for being racist !

Yeah you're right, we should compare from 2001 onwards, because hockey didn't exist before that point.
We get rid of 2 players from my list (Jaroslav Sevcik & Sergei Gavrilenko - one good and one bad) and take in Ian's point about the 20 years where we didn't exist, I admit to regretfully forgetting that, and we end up with 39 instead of the 45 I quoted, so it ends up as 0.81 Europeans per season (still less than Sheffield)

Seemingly stats is the only thing we go on to define whether a player is cheap or any good, so by that Krulis was pretty good (as stated in my post) I've said it before and i still by the fact that I actually think he was the worst player to ever play for us.
But he got 14 points in 38 games, which for a stay at home defenceman who saw no powerplay time is pretty good. He also had a decent CV too.

Marek Ivan I completely agree, he was a head case and a bad egg (luck at the whole London Racers thing) but can you really know that before you sign them? And he had a decent resume and a decent season for us too.

[Deleted]

Nov 19, 2014 21:38:17 GMT iginla said:

I get called a "figure of mirth" by Stef

A remark which I withdrew and for which I apologised.

[Doom]

If I could have picked one of Panthers Euros to play for the Steelers it would undoubtedly have been Jan Krajicek, he was a class act.

I don't recall us having many Euros, more than 95% of our imports have been North American, but I guess my favourite Steeler Euro would have to be Timo Wilman....He played very physical and was more than willing to drop the gloves.

Regards

Doom

[RBR97]

I see all the comments about why haven't Panther's gone for a player like this, we only seem to sign players prone to injury, recovering from injury etc.
I can't see any stats for Danny this season, has he just not had a team to go too or has there been something else?

[Deleted]

Nov 20, 2014 15:55:39 GMT Doom said:

If I could have picked one of Panthers Euros to play for the Steelers it would undoubtedly have been Jan Krajicek, he was a class act.

I don't recall us having many Euros, more than 95% of our imports have been North American, but I guess my favourite Steeler Euro would have to be Timo Wilman....He played very physical and was more than willing to drop the gloves.

Regards

Doom

until he got destroyed by Briane Thompson

P.s. kalmikov/Ahlroos was emmense too

[kingmonkeybutt]

i liked tuma i thought he was finally coming along, he had the worse luck but i remember the time a blaze guy tried to check him and bounced off while tuma laughed at him

[doug]

Nov 20, 2014 15:55:39 GMT Doom said:

If I could have picked one of Panthers Euros to play for the Steelers it would undoubtedly have been Jan Krajicek, he was a class act.

I don't recall us having many Euros, more than 95% of our imports have been North American, but I guess my favourite Steeler Euro would have to be Timo Wilman....He played very physical and was more than willing to drop the gloves.

Regards

Doom

In my opinion he was the best "Euro" ever to play here. I loved watching him and in one Steelers game he iced the whole time less 20 second breaks!

[texpef]

how many 20 second breaks though? if it was 20 per period had a regular shift then...

Best Euro imho was Sevcik what a player when you only had 4 imports, shame he wasnt here all season, probably followed by Stancock in his first visit here...

[BigLad]

Bois' debut has ended like this:



Although how Fitzgerald gets a misconduct for being challenged to a scrap beats me.

[Deleted]

Oooof. That reminds me of Selmar v Mike Rowe.

[ted logan]

Reminds me of Bambi on ice

[tootootrain]

[Deleted]

It hasn t taken Sqeelers long to go crying off to the DOPS .....

Fitzgerald gets 2 game ban !!!!

[doug]

Nov 21, 2014 21:16:44 GMT BigLad said:

Bois' debut has ended like this:



Although how Fitzgerald gets a misconduct for being challenged to a scrap beats me.

He wasn't challenged to a fight!! Bois was ordered NOT to fight and was holding Fitzgerald, who punched him...twice. Without reply. By then Bois was concussed and could do very little to avoid being floored.