iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Nov 19, 2014 18:33:53 GMT
I never said Parent was a Euro NYR,I said "either Euro or Injured",I am quite aware Parent is Canadian and by Euro I mean't Eastern block countries. Parent is a guy who had a bad injury and in 36 AHL games scored the grand total of two goals......wow what a pick up he was eh ?
Nikolov was very very good yes,I would have him back,Ryhanen no and there are reasons we didn't want him back. Check out what his Dundee team mates thought of him after last season.....it wasn't very complimentary to say the least.
As for the Bois/Wilson thing,I wasn't comparing them,Yotes asked what sort of player he was and in ten seconds I came up with a comparable player.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 18:51:44 GMT
A) Parent isn't a Euro, also doubt he would be cheap seeing as he missed the majority of the 12-13 season (only 3 games played) but last year he played 36 AHL games. I very much doubt a 26 year old straight out of the AHL would be overly cheap, then again you seem to be in there with the salary of each player on the roster so maybe you can enlighten me? B) Notable exemptions from that list are Angel Nikolov & Sami Ryhanen, good job leaving those out because they don't fit your arguement. Anyway onto Bois, Good signing, does seem to fit the bill (tough winger) but I'm not buying that he's that much better than Kelsey Wilson. Pretty much identical in my view, apart from one statistic that I find interesting. Using the AHL as the barometer as this is where they have played most of their games: Bois: 409 Games - 133 points - 0.33PPG - 1124 pims (2.75 per game) Wilson: 374 Games - 106 points - 0.28PPG - 804 pims (2.15 per game) Nothing in that one really, Bois probably takes a few more penalties if I'm being picky. But when you get to +/-: Bois: 409 Games = -54 Wilson: 374 Games = -21 Now this leads me to believe that Bois could be a bit of a defensive liability, now I don't know maybe he just played for a rubbish team. They will have both played similar roles though on a checking/power line per say, just seems likely Kelsey was more defensively responsible. This becomes even more obvious comparing their Austrian stats, I admit this maybe a bit of a stretch as Bois played 138 games in Austria compared to Wilson's 52 but Bois scored at 0.55ppg and ended up with a -36 which is not as impressive as Wilson's 0.77ppg and +5. Maybe we did get offered Bois and maybe Corey turned him down because he wouldn't be a fit in the team dynamic we have this year (i.e. being defensively responsible). It's quite notable the change in Higgins game fromhis time in Belfast last year, I can't ever recall him backchecking for them like Corey's had him doing so far. Maybe Corey is looking for a more defensively responsible power forward like a Kelsey Wilson rather than rushing out to sign someone just to answer Belfast signing Westgarth like iit could be argued Sheffield have done here. Find the 'ex NHLer' PR quite laughable aswell, whilst it's factually correct it is rather misleading and I would've been quite disappointed had this guy been annnounced after that kind of hype. Now don't get me wrong he will certainly fill a role for Sheffield and will do a job for them, but from what I can see I'm not expecting him to be a world beater. Yes he may be the final piece to Sheffields jigsaw, then again they may have been better off going for someone potentially more defensively responsible and this signing might unbalance them. What would've been the point in signing this guy just because he's tough even though he might not've fit into what Corey is trying to acheive? If the right guy becomes available I'm sure he will be brought in.
Danny Bois wasn't picked up because of Westgarth. We had Pascal Morency who was going to fill that role until he had to retire due to injury. We've replaced Morency with Bois, nothing to do with answering the signing of Westgarth.
But he does bring toughness to the team, somebody that will go with the other tougher guys in the league if required. It's obvious in the games we've played so far against Cardiff etc that they felt quite safe that we had nobody that could answer the call, not the case now.
As for being defensively responsible, many of our squad this year is just that. Nobody in this league works both ends of the ice better than Tyler Mosienko. Even the top line of Roy, Fretter and Forney know how to play in their own end of the ice. We fell apart in one game at the NIC but our defensive record is every bit as good as yours. We have the more explosive forwards, hence the goal scoring record of the two teams. I'm not concerned about whether Bois is great in his own end of the ice, he'll keep other teams honest and that is the but we were missing.
You went bigger and better than Morency though, if you went comparable to him yeah you'd have a point but it seems (based on the CV of Bois) that you've upgraded. Due to unfortunate circumstances I accept, and it's by no means a criticism. It just seems you've gone for a higher pay grade player like Bois when there probably was a more Morency type forward who wouldn't have cost as much (pure guess work based on CV's on how much they'll earn), in my eyes it seems it's a an answer to Westgarth (yet again not a criticism). Goals conceded isn't just the only judge of defensive record, in 2 games here you've let up 100 shots all together and 2nd most in our conference (Coventry are a long long way ahead in that stat though, almost makes makes you feel sorry for Stewart... Almost), so maybe a little tightening up would help. Then again I've seen you guys twice and am looking at a few stars, you'll have a different view point as you watch every week. I can accept that. As for the hype thing, I shouldn't have used the phrase PR so I apologise for that. In all honesty I just didn't want to use the word hype twice in the same sentence, buzz would probably have been a better choice. I just know there was a lot of buzz on forums and social media about an ex NHL player, I wouldn't know if the club did or did not mention because I don't read releases on the Steelers site, and given that buzz this signing would've come off as underwhelming.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 19:07:38 GMT
I never said Parent was a Euro NYR,I said "either Euro or Injured",I am quite aware Parent is Canadian and by Euro I mean't Eastern block countries. Parent is a guy who had a bad injury and in 36 AHL games scored the grand total of two goals......wow what a pick up he was eh ? Nikolov was very very good yes,I would have him back,Ryhanen no and there are reasons we didn't want him back. Check out what his Dundee team mates thought of him after last season.....it wasn't very complimentary to say the least. As for the Bois/Wilson thing,I wasn't comparing them,Yotes asked what sort of player he was and in ten seconds I came up with a comparable player. Yet despite only scoring 2 goals he still managed to play in 36 games, so I'm just guessing he was doing something right to impress someone with far greater knowledge than you or I. Some players are more defensively minded and not expected to light up the score sheet, Parent is one of those players much in the mould of a Brandon Benedict who are quite invaluable to the cause of a team. I saw nothing in the games he's played so far that he won't chip in and contribute in other ways than on the scoresheet (which isn't the be all and end all). Yes but on the flipside there were reports that his team mates never made him feel welcome as he was the only Euro on the roster. Also don't say 'there are reasons we didn't want him back' man up and say what they are in your initial post or don't say anything in that regard. It's getting tiresome with you claiming you know all this information yet you never ever say what it is. But hey if it makes you feel important stick at it champ. A lot of what you say seems to come across as some kind of personal vendetta against the club, it's got nothing to with the 'it's because I care' hyperbole you gave the other day that much is obvious, I genuinely think you might just need a hug. What I objected to was you saying Bois is better/more skilful than Wilson which may not be the case. They are comparable yes, but better? Not so sure.
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Zukiwskyfan
Simon Hunt
ENL heavyweight champ
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Post by Zukiwskyfan on Nov 19, 2014 19:41:31 GMT
Saying Sheffield only made this signing because of Westgarth is retarded. Bois is a different type of player to Westgarth all together. They have made a like for like signing to who they are replacing.
Bois is tougher and a better hitter than Wilson. A real power forward not any of this Bruce Graham BS.
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Post by fishman on Nov 19, 2014 20:14:56 GMT
What I be concerned about if I was a Steeler fan is that they are spending money they don't have, if you look back at motorpoint arena ice issues Tony Smith talking Seth Bennett (Sept 23rd) about trying to break even after loss of the motor point arena for several games then these the 7 games in the Ice Sheffield arena 1500 fan, are they doing a spend spend spend to win the title. Most post on this forum says they have got the better all round team with the most expensive Brits? in the league all leading to very very large wage bill?
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Nov 19, 2014 20:34:20 GMT
But look at it another way fishman. I would guess Sheffield have learnt their lessons more than a couple of times over regarding the "spend and bust" thing,certainly now they seem to have at last got a decent owner in Tony Smith.
Now,if they can spend what they obviously have this year on a very good initial and expensive looking roster,plus then even more on Oconnor,then upgrade Morency for Bois,whilst ALSO absorbing all the other problems of no ice,lots of ice Sheffield games etc it rather begs the question...........what the hell are Panthers doing,they haven't had ice trouble or had to play out of a 1500 seat arena,so which team means business and which one is not even standing still but going backwards ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 21:31:46 GMT
Saying Sheffield only made this signing because of Westgarth is retarded. Bois is a different type of player to Westgarth all together. They have made a like for like signing to who they are replacing. Bois is tougher and a better hitter than Wilson. A real power forward not any of this Bruce Graham BS. Such a mature and well reasoned opening sentence... If you read it properly that's not what I said. I said they signed this player because of Westgarth, not a player to play this role because of Westgarth. I wouldn't say this is like for like as they are upgrading on Morency, and fair play to them may I add. Toughness and hitting don't make him a better/more skillful than Wilson though. Could be argued Kelsey's presence was enough, he didn't need to go around hitting people. Agree about Bruce though, he is not a power forward. Didn't he win an award for Power Forward of the year at some point in the CHL (not the champions league) before he came to us the first time though?
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Nov 19, 2014 21:38:17 GMT
I don't have any vendetta against the club NYR,far from it,I want Panthers to win every game,I hate losing at anything,but losing whilst not trying your best is unacceptable.
The only two things I take exception to are that Panthers don't do all they could to win with regards to spending,then trot out feeble excuses about bus legs,injuries and blips etc whilst constantly asking people to dig deeper into their pockets and taking us for mugs. Secondly,people who state things on here that are either untrue or completely lacking in thought,like the guy the other day who tried to claim we weren't playing an import short because Mosey can play forward and defence.....oh dear ! That's why I point things out,not to make me feel important because I don't,I say it to try and inform people that what you hear in the "club spin" is not always correct. When I express my opinion or read things that I know for sure are incorrect and say so,people say I'm being negative,I get called a "figure of mirth" by Stef,a smart arse,have a vendetta etc etc. I don't have a vendetta against the club,but I am becoming more and more disillusioned with Panthers,almost to the point now of thinking I can't be bothered with all the crap and spin much longer if that is what you get from following them. In answer to you thinking I never say things,if you check back my posts you will find I say plenty,the true story too,
As for Rhyanen,he thought he was gods gift after his half a season,wanted more money,Panthers said no your not worth more,so he went to France,that went tits up so he ended up in Dundee. Several of the Dundee players said he was the worst team mate ever and that was that,there now you know that story.
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Mozzy
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Post by Mozzy on Nov 19, 2014 21:48:43 GMT
Danny Bois wasn't picked up because of Westgarth. We had Pascal Morency who was going to fill that role until he had to retire due to injury. We've replaced Morency with Bois, nothing to do with answering the signing of Westgarth.
But he does bring toughness to the team, somebody that will go with the other tougher guys in the league if required. It's obvious in the games we've played so far against Cardiff etc that they felt quite safe that we had nobody that could answer the call, not the case now.
As for being defensively responsible, many of our squad this year is just that. Nobody in this league works both ends of the ice better than Tyler Mosienko. Even the top line of Roy, Fretter and Forney know how to play in their own end of the ice. We fell apart in one game at the NIC but our defensive record is every bit as good as yours. We have the more explosive forwards, hence the goal scoring record of the two teams. I'm not concerned about whether Bois is great in his own end of the ice, he'll keep other teams honest and that is the but we were missing.
You went bigger and better than Morency though, if you went comparable to him yeah you'd have a point but it seems (based on the CV of Bois) that you've upgraded. Due to unfortunate circumstances I accept, and it's by no means a criticism. It just seems you've gone for a higher pay grade player like Bois when there probably was a more Morency type forward who wouldn't have cost as much (pure guess work based on CV's on how much they'll earn), in my eyes it seems it's a an answer to Westgarth (yet again not a criticism). Goals conceded isn't just the only judge of defensive record, in 2 games here you've let up 100 shots all together and 2nd most in our conference (Coventry are a long long way ahead in that stat though, almost makes makes you feel sorry for Stewart... Almost), so maybe a little tightening up would help. Then again I've seen you guys twice and am looking at a few stars, you'll have a different view point as you watch every week. I can accept that. As for the hype thing, I shouldn't have used the phrase PR so I apologise for that. In all honesty I just didn't want to use the word hype twice in the same sentence, buzz would probably have been a better choice. I just know there was a lot of buzz on forums and social media about an ex NHL player, I wouldn't know if the club did or did not mention because I don't read releases on the Steelers site, and given that buzz this signing would've come off as underwhelming. No problem with any of that. I think the buzz around social media and forums was that somebody had suggested we had looked at a 600+ game NHL player. The club didn't comment at all. We do appear to have learnt to be better at controlling the hype surrounding player signings more recently, thankfully!! :-)
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Mozzy
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Post by Mozzy on Nov 19, 2014 21:57:50 GMT
What I be concerned about if I was a Steeler fan is that they are spending money they don't have, if you look back at motorpoint arena ice issues Tony Smith talking Seth Bennett (Sept 23rd) about trying to break even after loss of the motor point arena for several games then these the 7 games in the Ice Sheffield arena 1500 fan, are they doing a spend spend spend to win the title. Most post on this forum says they have got the better all round team with the most expensive Brits? in the league all leading to very very large wage bill? Knowing Tony Smith, I would be very surprised if we had overspent again. We've done that so many times in the past it's embarrassing. Tony did say to Seth that we'd lost money due to the ice issues but then, he also said, if it wasn't for the help of a sponsor then the Ben O'Connor signing wouldn't have happened. As for signing Bois, the release of Morency would pay for most, if not all of that I'd imagine.
I think it helps having a fan in charge of the club. It can be a double edged sword of course, maybe some decisions can be made with his fans hat on, rather than the businessman hat. But, he's stated he's not interested in making a profit for himself, he wants to build the club and put it back at the top. So, any money coming is likely to be spent on the team and promoting the team. In the few years he's been in charge we've made massive strides in every way, aside from trophies on the ice.
Neil Black, as far as I know, isn't a fan. He's not spent 20 years watching from the stands, so his priorities will be different to Tony Smith. He is interested in turning a profit for himself but he's also interest in growing the sport. Hence the Clan and the potential London team. Growing the sport will, in turn, generate more profit for him. You have to admire what Neil Black has achieved but I can see where Iginla (and some others) are coming from when they feel short changed.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Nov 19, 2014 22:06:16 GMT
What I be concerned about if I was a Steeler fan is that they are spending money they don't have, if you look back at motorpoint arena ice issues Tony Smith talking Seth Bennett (Sept 23rd) about trying to break even after loss of the motor point arena for several games then these the 7 games in the Ice Sheffield arena 1500 fan, are they doing a spend spend spend to win the title. Most post on this forum says they have got the better all round team with the most expensive Brits? in the league all leading to very very large wage bill? I don't buy that at all. Just because they went bust before I don't see it as being a Sheffield thing that they have to be in danger of going bust every year. I think they have the mind-set of being successful to go forwards rather than just catering for the Saturday night out crowd week in week out and counting the turn-stiles spinning. They had problems with the ice but they have been getting good crowds at the Motorpoint? Just count the bums on seats and do the sums.
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Doom
Greg Hadden
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Post by Doom on Nov 19, 2014 22:07:49 GMT
I would say Bois is a similar level to Morency.
Both are reasonably tough and I would expect Bois to get about the same points as Morency would probably have achieved. From what I've heard/read, Bois is perhaps more physical, whereas Morency was probably a faster/better skater.
A tough guy is a piece of the jigsaw we were missing, but apart from a game in Cardiff this season, I don't think the lack of toughness has cost us any other games this season and I'd be surprised if Nottingham had lost more than the odd game due to being pushed around....Hasn't your problem been the lack of another high end goalscorer to finish the chances off?
Regards
Doom
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Mozzy
Pat Casey
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Post by Mozzy on Nov 19, 2014 23:02:12 GMT
What I be concerned about if I was a Steeler fan is that they are spending money they don't have, if you look back at motorpoint arena ice issues Tony Smith talking Seth Bennett (Sept 23rd) about trying to break even after loss of the motor point arena for several games then these the 7 games in the Ice Sheffield arena 1500 fan, are they doing a spend spend spend to win the title. Most post on this forum says they have got the better all round team with the most expensive Brits? in the league all leading to very very large wage bill? I don't buy that at all. Just because they went bust before I don't see it as being a Sheffield thing that they have to be in danger of going bust every year. I think they have the mind-set of being successful to go forwards rather than just catering for the Saturday night out crowd week in week out and counting the turn-stiles spinning. They had problems with the ice but they have been getting good crowds at the Motorpoint? Just count the bums on seats and do the sums. We've been doing OK at the Motorpoint this year. This last weekend we had 5600 on Saturday and 4500 on Sunday. Not bad for a double header weekend, granted there was a ticket deal of £25 for both games but still decent attendances.
We've played a lot of games at Ice Sheffield this season so far but I think we've only 1 left to play there now. So, we should be able to attract some decent crowds going forward, especially with the way we are playing right now. It's an entertaining brand of hockey and it's good to watch. The match night "show" is being improved week on week too. Making much more use of the big screens. It's not to everyone's taste of course but the kids love it and they are the future. The off ice team have done a fantastic job over the last few years and should be praised for it. I'm sure the webcasts are adding to the pot too, they certainly don't seem to have affected attendances at all. I know we get laughed at with the 50/50 draw but we gave £4,000 away this weekend, that's another £4,000 into the clubs account too. It all helps push the club to be better on and off the ice.
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Mozzy
Pat Casey
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Post by Mozzy on Nov 19, 2014 23:08:48 GMT
This would set the rivalry going again if it happened at the NIC!!
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Post by fishman on Nov 20, 2014 9:44:25 GMT
Attendance figures for Steelers home games not made public, I did email Elite league to ask why no attendance figure the reply came from Tony Smith's email address "Correct - we don¹t make them public as there is no benefit in doing so!" so Forney fill us in on the other missing attendance numbers, if Sheffield ice gets 1500 and lets say motorpoint 4500 that 3000 down x by the 7games =21000 thats an lot of bums not on seats, would add one thing it will not so expensive to hire the Sheffield ice than motorpoint.
we would all at panthers like to see better players but they come at cost and maybe we will have Robinson back before Christmas!!!!!!!
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calv
Jade Galbraith
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Post by calv on Nov 20, 2014 10:23:32 GMT
Steelers' attendances can be found here: www.steelers-stats.co.uk/ then go to schedule. I believe they get the numbers directly from the club
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Doom
Greg Hadden
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Post by Doom on Nov 20, 2014 10:28:09 GMT
The arena average this season is 4,800, the Ice Sheffield average is 1,346, with the overall average being 3,206.
Ice Sheffield is substantially cheaper to rent and games at Ice Sheffield won't be on the season ticket, so the 1,346 will nearly all be paying customers, whereas with arena games 1,500 season ticket holders have already paid up front.
Regards
Doom
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Mozzy
Pat Casey
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Post by Mozzy on Nov 20, 2014 11:21:04 GMT
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Mozzy
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Post by Mozzy on Nov 20, 2014 11:25:20 GMT
Attendance figures for Steelers home games not made public, I did email Elite league to ask why no attendance figure the reply came from Tony Smith's email address "Correct - we don¹t make them public as there is no benefit in doing so!" so Forney fill us in on the other missing attendance numbers, if Sheffield ice gets 1500 and lets say motorpoint 4500 that 3000 down x by the 7games =21000 thats an lot of bums not on seats, would add one thing it will not so expensive to hire the Sheffield ice than motorpoint. we would all at panthers like to see better players but they come at cost and maybe we will have Robinson back before Christmas!!!!!!! As Doom has already said most of the Ice Sheffield games are full paying customers whereas the Arena has 1500+ season ticket holders already paid. The rent for Ice Sheffield is also far cheaper than the arena, so much so the club make more from 1500 at Ice Sheffield than 3500 at the arena.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Nov 20, 2014 11:46:20 GMT
But Doom,
You presumably have a shortfall on arena games against your season ticket because you have played so many games at Ice Sheffield. So somewhere down the line there will be arena crowds where they have to let a lot of people in for free or give them a monetary refund against their season ticket ?
With a Steelers seasons average crowd of only 3206 versus Panthers 5000+ it does make you wonder about the spending of both teams. Either Steelers are spending too much or Panthers are vastly underspending ?
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Doom
Greg Hadden
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Post by Doom on Nov 20, 2014 12:21:55 GMT
But Doom, You presumably have a shortfall on arena games against your season ticket because you have played so many games at Ice Sheffield. So somewhere down the line there will be arena crowds where they have to let a lot of people in for free or give them a monetary refund against their season ticket ? With a Steelers seasons average crowd of only 3206 versus Panthers 5000+ it does make you wonder about the spending of both teams. Either Steelers are spending too much or Panthers are vastly underspending ? What we've done is shuffle things around, so that some of the Ice Sheffield games later in the season have been brought forward. It does mean a couple of weekend dates at the arena will become weekday games and that will obviously have an impact on attendances, but that is further down the line and generally we do have better dates this season (more Saturdays) compared to recent years. Assuming there are no more arena issues, I would expect our overall attendance average to start increasing quite substantially from now on because I believe we only have one more fixture at Ice Sheffield. There's no doubt the arena ice problems will have cost the club a chunk of money, but if arena attendances hold up well as they are doing I can't see that being an issue in the long term. The key for us will be to stay in the title race, because on ice success tends to have more of an impact on attendances in places like Sheffield/Belfast than it does in Nottingham. Regards Doom
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Post by fishman on Nov 20, 2014 12:42:22 GMT
What about 2012/13 Panthers dream team, did that cost to much money to put together? ? And for Doom is Ben O'connor the the most expensive Brit in the League and who did he replace !
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Mozzy
Pat Casey
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Post by Mozzy on Nov 20, 2014 13:26:12 GMT
What about 2012/13 Panthers dream team, did that cost to much money to put together? ? And for Doom is Ben O'connor the the most expensive Brit in the League and who did he replace ! The club have already said if it wasn't for a sponsor helping us out then the O'Connor signing wouldn't have happened. It's great to have such good sponsors that are willing to go that extra mile to help the club.
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Post by texpef on Nov 20, 2014 13:30:08 GMT
Panthers have tonnes of sponsors wonder what happens to all that money?..
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Mozzy
Pat Casey
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Post by Mozzy on Nov 20, 2014 13:32:41 GMT
But Doom, You presumably have a shortfall on arena games against your season ticket because you have played so many games at Ice Sheffield. So somewhere down the line there will be arena crowds where they have to let a lot of people in for free or give them a monetary refund against their season ticket ? With a Steelers seasons average crowd of only 3206 versus Panthers 5000+ it does make you wonder about the spending of both teams. Either Steelers are spending too much or Panthers are vastly underspending ? Think we need to compare apples with apples here. Taking the arena attendances only our average is 4800, not far behind yours. But we've played more games at Ice Sheffield this year than normal, so the overall average has been dragged down at the moment. That will change substantially as we go through the season as we have just one more game at Ice Sheffield. Also, add in the fact the club make more money on 1500 at Ice Sheffield than 3500 at the arena. Then things are not as rough as you could think just going on people through the doors. Nobody will need refunding or getting in for free. There will still be 25 games on the season ticket at the arena.
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