The Flying Shirt
Paul Adey
Adam #7 #47 - Forever #1
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Post by The Flying Shirt on May 5, 2012 19:21:36 GMT
I know it doesnt matter much and I totally I agree its not that important. On the other hand maybe this is the reason league is not taking seriously / moving foward. All owners and all board members should be there not announcers of teams. Btw it's not because its Simms I would be saying this to any owner that didn't go THEY SHOULD BE THERE ! The people making the money were all there and they take business VERY seriously.
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dp
Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on May 5, 2012 19:24:30 GMT
I don't really think it makes any difference whether he was there as a proxy, in his role as Sky presenter, or as Sheffield's "Press Officer".
It's about the fact that this sport is doomed for as long as people like him are involved. As Kezy says, Simms, Thommo etc all having a little friendly chat. That's not a "board meeting" in any sense.
It's so sad. The sport is absolutely pathetic in this country.
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Post by kezypanther on May 5, 2012 19:26:29 GMT
I don't really think it makes any difference whether he was there as a proxy, in his role as Sky presenter, or as Sheffield's "Press Officer". It's about the fact that this sport is doomed for as long as people like him are involved. As Kezy says, Simms, Thommo etc all having a little friendly chat. That's not a "board meeting" in any sense. It's so sad. The sport is absolutely pathetic in this country. +1
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Post by bill238 on May 5, 2012 20:02:42 GMT
I don't really think it makes any difference whether he was there as a proxy, in his role as Sky presenter, or as Sheffield's "Press Officer". It's about the fact that this sport is doomed for as long as people like him are involved. As Kezy says, Simms, Thommo etc all having a little friendly chat. That's not a "board meeting" in any sense. It's so sad. The sport is absolutely pathetic in this country. Apart from Simmsey being there can you tell me who else was there? How can you make the assumption that its 'not a board meeting in any sense' Were you there? What was discussed? As for your last comment, the sport will always be a minority sport in this country no matter who and how professionally it is run, people should just accept that
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dp
Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on May 5, 2012 20:14:00 GMT
I'm not questioning whether it's a minority sport or not am I? Not every company in the UK is it the FTSE 100, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be well run and the best made of them. The attitude of "it's a minority sport and people should just accept it" is exactly the problem with the sport in this country.
Who knows what was discussed or who was there? You've just 100% proved my point! A supposed league board meeting where nobody knows who went or what was discussed. Thank you for making my point better than I could have ever made it. It's a joke.
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Post by PantherG on May 5, 2012 21:05:01 GMT
The irony will be if they have changed the rule to enforce a maximum of three imports on the ice at one time, it could mean that Corey is kicking himself for gassing Danny. It has been stated that due to Weavers age that he won't be icing to the degree he did at Coventry, so this could really backfire! Plus Sheffield have been quietly building up an army of Brits, so they're gonna be happy.
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on May 5, 2012 21:22:30 GMT
The irony will be if they have changed the rule to enforce a maximum of three imports on the ice at one time, it could mean that Corey is kicking himself for gassing Danny. It has been stated that due to Weavers age that he won't be icing to the degree he did at Coventry, so this could really backfire! Plus Sheffield have been quietly building up an army of Brits, so they're gonna be happy. Eh? Three imports on the ice, max? Where'd that one come from? My level of respect for the professionalism, integrity and indeed intelligence of the EIHL as a whole isn't very high... but not even I can see them being that stupid. The basic numbers just don't cut it. Assuming that the import level hasn't been cut (doubtful, to be honest) most if not all teams will be going with 10 imports. One of them usually being the main netminder... with an outskater contingent usually around 15-16, that leaves 6 or 7 Brits. Max. 3 imports on the ice means 3 Brits on the ice at all times (barring PKs)... which means most of your Brits will be takingevery other shift. Not going to happen. Ye gods, what is it with everyone? Some vague tweet, and all of a sudden there are paranoid conspiracy theories coming out of the woodwork! And people wonder why I think Twitter is a pile of crap (not to mention the gullibility of people hanging on every word). Come on, people... get a grip!
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LUFC
Ashley Tait
Game On!
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Post by LUFC on May 5, 2012 21:44:25 GMT
The irony will be if they have changed the rule to enforce a maximum of three imports on the ice at one time, it could mean that Corey is kicking himself for gassing Danny. It has been stated that due to Weavers age that he won't be icing to the degree he did at Coventry, so this could really backfire! Plus Sheffield have been quietly building up an army of Brits, so they're gonna be happy. Eh? Three imports on the ice, max? Where'd that one come from? My level of respect for the professionalism, integrity and indeed intelligence of the EIHL as a whole isn't very high... but not even I can see them being that stupid. The basic numbers just don't cut it. Assuming that the import level hasn't been cut (doubtful, to be honest) most if not all teams will be going with 10 imports. One of them usually being the main netminder... with an outskater contingent usually around 15-16, that leaves 6 or 7 Brits. Max. 3 imports on the ice means 3 Brits on the ice at all times (barring PKs)... which means most of your Brits will be takingevery other shift. Not going to happen. Ye gods, what is it with everyone? Some vague tweet, and all of a sudden there are paranoid conspiracy theories coming out of the woodwork! And people wonder why I think Twitter is a pile of crap (not to mention the gullibility of people hanging on every word). Come on, people... get a grip! Now now shaggy, you should know better than to think and talk logically on this forum!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2012 21:54:27 GMT
The irony will be if they have changed the rule to enforce a maximum of three imports on the ice at one time, it could mean that Corey is kicking himself for gassing Danny. It has been stated that due to Weavers age that he won't be icing to the degree he did at Coventry, so this could really backfire! Plus Sheffield have been quietly building up an army of Brits, so they're gonna be happy. Eh? Three imports on the ice, max? Where'd that one come from? My level of respect for the professionalism, integrity and indeed intelligence of the EIHL as a whole isn't very high... but not even I can see them being that stupid. The basic numbers just don't cut it. Assuming that the import level hasn't been cut (doubtful, to be honest) most if not all teams will be going with 10 imports. One of them usually being the main netminder... with an outskater contingent usually around 15-16, that leaves 6 or 7 Brits. Max. 3 imports on the ice means 3 Brits on the ice at all times (barring PKs)... which means most of your Brits will be takingevery other shift. Not going to happen. Ye gods, what is it with everyone? Some vague tweet, and all of a sudden there are paranoid conspiracy theories coming out of the woodwork! And people wonder why I think Twitter is a pile of crap (not to mention the gullibility of people hanging on every word). Come on, people... get a grip! Exactly shaggy , and exactly how is this theory going to get policed? So if you only had 2 Brits icing for 2 shifts .. What's the penalty exactly , the refs can t notice the simplest of things without throwing this in . , and when teams are in the middle of a line change , had someone found this and the bottom of a cereals packet or what ? Ludicrous .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2012 21:55:30 GMT
Eh? Three imports on the ice, max? Where'd that one come from? My level of respect for the professionalism, integrity and indeed intelligence of the EIHL as a whole isn't very high... but not even I can see them being that stupid. The basic numbers just don't cut it. Assuming that the import level hasn't been cut (doubtful, to be honest) most if not all teams will be going with 10 imports. One of them usually being the main netminder... with an outskater contingent usually around 15-16, that leaves 6 or 7 Brits. Max. 3 imports on the ice means 3 Brits on the ice at all times (barring PKs)... which means most of your Brits will be takingevery other shift. Not going to happen. Ye gods, what is it with everyone? Some vague tweet, and all of a sudden there are paranoid conspiracy theories coming out of the woodwork! And people wonder why I think Twitter is a pile of crap (not to mention the gullibility of people hanging on every word). Come on, people... get a grip! Exactly shaggy , and exactly how is this theory going to get policed? So if you only had 2 Brits icing for 2 shifts .. What's the penalty exactly , the refs can t notice the simplest of things without throwing this in . , and when teams are in the middle of a line change , had someone found this at the bottom of a cereals packet or what ? Ludicrous .
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calv
Jade Galbraith
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Post by calv on May 5, 2012 22:12:18 GMT
The EPL seem to manage the max imports at a time thing well; I remember Manchester got caught out quite a few times when they were new to the league.
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Post by PantherG on May 5, 2012 23:07:02 GMT
It's managed well in the EPL, no reason it can't be enforced here. Bottom line is there are some changes coming, hopefully we will find out sooner rather than later.
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Post by bill238 on May 5, 2012 23:53:54 GMT
I'm not questioning whether it's a minority sport or not am I? Not every company in the UK is it the FTSE 100, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be well run and the best made of them. The attitude of "it's a minority sport and people should just accept it" is exactly the problem with the sport in this country. Who knows what was discussed or who was there? You've just 100% proved my point! A supposed league board meeting where nobody knows who went or what was discussed. Thank you for making my point better than I could have ever made it. It's a joke. Why should it be made made public or why should we know specifically who was there? Every club has someone there. I also would like more transparency but I don't expect it. Its not like the elite league is alone in this either, you cant find out who the minutes of any premier league, rugby league et.c meeting and neither can you find out specifically who was there. As for my other comment of the sport will always be a minority sport doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see it run better. I am just stating that it will always be a minority sport and there is nothing that will change that
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Milkman™
Les Strongman
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Post by Milkman™ on May 6, 2012 8:02:52 GMT
As for my other comment of the sport will always be a minority sport doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see it run better. I am just stating that it will always be a minority sport and there is nothing that will change that Define minority? Superleague has done well, Darts too if your talking TV audience.
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Post by james1977 on May 6, 2012 8:27:31 GMT
As for my other comment of the sport will always be a minority sport doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see it run better. I am just stating that it will always be a minority sport and there is nothing that will change that Define minority? Superleague has done well, Darts too if your talking TV audience. Indeed. The British Basketball League could be held up as a good example of how to do minority 'foreign' sports in the UK too. They put the EIHL to shame with their professionalism.
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Post by bill238 on May 6, 2012 8:55:14 GMT
Define minority? Superleague has done well, Darts too if your talking TV audience. Indeed. The British Basketball League could be held up as a good example of how to do minority 'foreign' sports in the UK too. They put the EIHL to shame with their professionalism. You are joking right? As someone who keeps up to date with the BBL, it is one of few leagues that the EIHL absolutely trumps when it comes to professionalism. Out of all the 'American Sports' domestically Ice Hockey is by far the best supported and best run believe it or not. For example if you take the BBL, it is officially one of the worst ranked leagues in Europe. The teams play in halls and the average crowd in the league is about 600-700. Over 20 teams have either dropped out of the BBL or disappeared altogether. There are constantly reports of teams not playing their players and unprofessional incidents such as this have occurred - www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/basketball/15738202
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Post by bill238 on May 6, 2012 9:20:21 GMT
As for my other comment of the sport will always be a minority sport doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see it run better. I am just stating that it will always be a minority sport and there is nothing that will change that Define minority? Superleague has done well, Darts too if your talking TV audience. Its not a literal term but I don't think I would class Rugby league as a minority sport. The advantages that Darts and Rugby league has is that they have interest from media and so on because the players involved are amongst the best in the world. The only way ice hockey is going to become much more popular in this country is if we have one of the best leagues in the world because that is the way the British sporting market works, that is why it won't ever happen
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Post by james1977 on May 6, 2012 10:42:02 GMT
bill - That was a tragically bad example you linked to there as it showed, - The BBL won't tolerate poor behaviour from anyone connected to the teams. - They aren't afraid to actually punish teams/individuals for bringing their league into disrepute. - Clubs generally do as the league says, not the other way around.
I follow the Riders and yes, whilst the league may not be ranked so highly and some of the venues are not so great, in spite all this the league still has a far more professional approach than the EIHL.
Remind me, what punishment do the EIHL meter out for assaults on officials?
What about the punishment metered out to teams that constantly fail in their financial responsibilities to their sponsors and fans?
What did the league do about a certain Brummy making obscene comments from centre ice last season? The BBL seemed to do more for a lesser offence, as shown in your poor example.
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Milkman™
Les Strongman
Always Delivers
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Post by Milkman™ on May 6, 2012 10:47:18 GMT
The financial stability is a massive thing, and a good point.
Why have there been nearly 50 liquidations in the last 5 years, including our own great club been dissolved a few years ?
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Post by Nemesis on May 6, 2012 11:02:49 GMT
There will be no drop in import numbers.
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Post by bill238 on May 6, 2012 13:17:17 GMT
bill - That was a tragically bad example you linked to there as it showed, - The BBL won't tolerate poor behaviour from anyone connected to the teams. - They aren't afraid to actually punish teams/individuals for bringing their league into disrepute. - Clubs generally do as the league says, not the other way around. I follow the Riders and yes, whilst the league may not be ranked so highly and some of the venues are not so great, in spite all this the league still has a far more professional approach than the EIHL. Remind me, what punishment do the EIHL meter out for assaults on officials? What about the punishment metered out to teams that constantly fail in their financial responsibilities to their sponsors and fans? What did the league do about a certain Brummy making obscene comments from centre ice last season? The BBL seemed to do more for a lesser offence, as shown in your poor example. I just completely disagree, you are the first person I have spoken to who follows both sports who thinks the BBL is more professional then the EIHL. As for the clubs following the league, it is no different to the EIHL if not worse then the EIHL, at least we had a neutral chairmen (now looking for a new one), the BBL chairmen is the owner of a BBL team and like the EIHL their owners run the league. Where are the examples of them punishing people connected to clubs and people bringing the game into disrepute? You only have to read the twitter pages of some of the players to see there is nothing stopping them criticising the league. For your other question regarding failing their financial responsibilities the EIHL and neither the BBL do anything about it, the BBL doesn't have a rule book and as much as some people seem to ignore it the EIHL does to an extent ( www.eliteleague.co.uk/eihl-rules--s12541). As for Simms what to you want the league to do? They stopped him hosting any elite league based events but they can't stop him working for the Steelers and they can't stop him working for Sky as they don't decide who hosts the show - that is down to sky and televideo. I just can't get my head around the comment 'The British Basketball League could be held up as a good example of how to do minority 'foreign' sports in the UK too.' as in fact its the complete opposite. If we are looking for a model to try and copy then rugby union is the best option IMO except for we are obviously on a lower scale
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Post by james1977 on May 6, 2012 14:27:45 GMT
Well we will have to agree to disagree as obviously I can't counter the many folk you apparently know who follow both sports and conveniently share your opinion and trying to do so would be an exercise in futility. I understand your blind loyalty to the EIHL though.
As for Simms, banning him from hosting the awards night? How did that punish him as a representative of the Sheffield Steelers, which he was when he brought the sport into disrepute? It punished him as an individual. To go back to the rather poor example you plucked from the internet though, Plymouth were punished with a fine for the behaviour of a non-playing representative. The team suffered for not controlling him, as should of happened with Simms.
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Post by bill238 on May 6, 2012 14:57:17 GMT
Well we will have to agree to disagree as obviously I can't counter the many folk you apparently know who follow both sports and conveniently share your opinion and trying to do so would be an exercise in futility. I understand your blind loyalty to the EIHL though. Why are you just taking words out my mouth? - Where did I say I know MANY people who follow both sports? FYI I only know 4 and I didn't make out like I knew more. Its funny how you then make a comment that I have 'blind loyalty to the EIHL' - why resort to a comment like this when we are just having a debate in order to somehow make my opinion seem like pointless because I will back the EIHL no matter what when I won't. I don't believe the EIHL is some perfect league with no faults because it isn't, it has tons of fault and displays aspects of unprofessionalism quite a lot. My original point on this thread was just that ice hockey will always be a minority sport and also that out of all the leagues to try and use as an example for the EIHL, the BBL is most definitely not the one
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Shaggy
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Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on May 6, 2012 15:04:24 GMT
bill238,
Whether or not the BBL is well run is, to be honest, pretty irrelevant. I'll be honest - I neither know, nor much care. The example link you provided is, as has already been pointed out, a particularly poor choice by yourself, as it showed a league punishing wrongdoing and clubs actually appearing to take it seriously. Which, it has to be said, makes it look a little better than our league.
But comparisons between sports are IMHO irrelevant. It doesn't matter whether the EIHL (and/or British ice hockey as a whole) is better-run than the BBL (and/or British basketball as a whole). Who cares? The only relevant issue is how well our league and our sport are run. And the obvious answer is... not well at all.
I know that comparisons are used in several threads on all sorts of subjects... comparisons with football, rugby league, darts, snooker, whatever. All irrelevant IMHO. The only relevance is the state of our sport - not compared to anything else, not part of any kind of 'league table' of British sports... but taken on its own.
And let's be brutally honest here. This league is NOT well run. the sport of British ice hockey as a whole - at any level - is NOT well run. Let's not distract ourselves from that.
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Post by pingchowchi on May 6, 2012 15:18:28 GMT
To be fair it wasn't bill who first brought up the bbl
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