doug
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 586
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Post by doug on Jan 17, 2012 16:41:59 GMT
You can be as sarcastic as you like but, the fact is, "these massive 50/50 sales" pay for 2 players! Hook, line and sinker! I'm going to stop paying for someone to come and collect the manure from our horses and hire a trailer to bring it down to you lot as there seems to be no limit to the amount of it you will swallow! Can you explain this please Elliott? |
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Post by robbo2306 on Jan 17, 2012 22:36:02 GMT
You can be as sarcastic as you like but, the fact is, "these massive 50/50 sales" pay for 2 players! Hook, line and sinker! I'm going to stop paying for someone to come and collect the manure from our horses and hire a trailer to bring it down to you lot as there seems to be no limit to the amount of it you will swallow! It doesn't pay for two players BUT what it does do is help in a small way towards that gaping hole that St Ragan left. You can mock all you like but Tony Smith seems to be doing a great job in maximising every income stream possible. Much better 50/50 sales, many more sponsors coming on board all the time, a great merchandise range and no doubt there are other things we don't see. It's already in the pipeline to generate income from Steelers TV next season with adverts and perhaps a small charge to view, similar to the football player app. Maybe your club could take a leaf out of Tony Smiths book and look at improving your failings. A consistently poor 50/50 draw, small range of merchandise, an outdated website, no game highlights etc etc.  |
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Jan 17, 2012 23:10:25 GMT
Maybe your club could take a leaf out of Tony Smiths book and look at improving your failings. A consistently poor 50/50 draw, small range of merchandise, an outdated website, no game highlights etc etc. Excuse me? "A consistently poor 50/50 draw"  Funny how nobody has ever accused the Panthers' 50/50 prizes of being poor for... well, as long as I can remember. Certainly not as long as we've been in the NIC. In fact, up to this point they have consistently been the largest prizes in the league - hell, in the whole country - for many years! Now just because yours have gone way up - to such heights that even only a mildly-suspicious onlooker would wonder if they weren't being padded somehow - they are "poor"? As if...  |
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Post by Nemesis on Jan 17, 2012 23:31:24 GMT
Steelers 50-50 is a very good income generator, although its not really 50-50 as it some of the prize is put up by sponsors (allegedly). I think its a good idea, as more people will buy tickets as the prize fund increases over the night. It's like people buying Euromillions when the jackpot is bigger, but not bothering with the smaller amounts. Eh? Where did you hear that? It's rubbish mate. Every pound is a ticket bought. |
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Shorty
Paul Adey
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Post by Shorty on Jan 17, 2012 23:36:35 GMT
Steelers 50-50 is a very good income generator, although its not really 50-50 as it some of the prize is put up by sponsors (allegedly). I think its a good idea, as more people will buy tickets as the prize fund increases over the night. It's like people buying Euromillions when the jackpot is bigger, but not bothering with the smaller amounts. Eh? Where did you hear that? It's rubbish mate. Every pound is a ticket bought. Something I heard. Not sure where, but in theory I think its a good idea. |
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 18, 2012 9:14:17 GMT
So Ragan doesn't still have a finger in the pie there? Ok...  |
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5+game
Terry Kurtenbach
Posts: 2,974
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Post by 5+game on Jan 20, 2012 20:21:22 GMT
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Post by Panthers_44 on Jan 20, 2012 20:50:08 GMT
Seems he has already found a new team back in the LNAH, not sure what I thought about him whilst watching him when we have played Steelers, but if he had been more impressive i'd have took a punt on him, played infront of K-Wall at Valpellice 2009-2010 season |
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Jan 20, 2012 21:13:41 GMT
Of course Steelers leave it late to announce it so we can't sign him quick and take him to Belfast for tomorrow.
I wonder if the obligatory behind the scenes telephone call was made from Sheffield to Coventry with a view to him replacing the injured Domish at the Blaze ?
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Post by robbo2306 on Jan 20, 2012 21:15:58 GMT
Maybe your club could take a leaf out of Tony Smiths book and look at improving your failings. A consistently poor 50/50 draw, small range of merchandise, an outdated website, no game highlights etc etc. Excuse me? "A consistently poor 50/50 draw" Funny how nobody has ever accused the Panthers' 50/50 prizes of being poor for... well, as long as I can remember. Certainly not as long as we've been in the NIC. In fact, up to this point they have consistently been the largest prizes in the league - hell, in the whole country - for many years! Now just because yours have gone way up - to such heights that even only a mildly-suspicious onlooker would wonder if they weren't being padded somehow - they are "poor"? As if... Sorry Dave, your club started with the "most consistent 50/50 draw" rubbish. When you compare it to the great effort being made in Sheffield by the 50/50 sellers then yes it is "consistently poor". As for the prizes being "padded" somehow, I'm assuming you are accusing the club of lying about the prizes with that comment? Sometimes people deserve credit for what they do, no matter what team they are doing it for. Our 50/50 draw, merchandising, Tv Highlights, website and general use of social media is much better than anything you have at present. Whilst we can learn alot from NB and GM with regard to getting bums on seats then they could learn alot from Tony Smith on all the fronts mentioned above. |
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Post by Stargazer on Jan 20, 2012 21:41:54 GMT
Sometimes people deserve credit for what they do, no matter what team they are doing it for. Our 50/50 draw, merchandising, Tv Highlights, website and general use of social media is much better than anything you have at present. A very valid and true point Robbo but for the life of me i can't understand why its not up to scratch. Its not exactly rocket science and its a very important part of presenting the club. |
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Jan 20, 2012 22:05:28 GMT
Excuse me? "A consistently poor 50/50 draw" Funny how nobody has ever accused the Panthers' 50/50 prizes of being poor for... well, as long as I can remember. Certainly not as long as we've been in the NIC. In fact, up to this point they have consistently been the largest prizes in the league - hell, in the whole country - for many years! Now just because yours have gone way up - to such heights that even only a mildly-suspicious onlooker would wonder if they weren't being padded somehow - they are "poor"? As if... Sorry Dave, your club started with the "most consistent 50/50 draw" rubbish. When you compare it to the great effort being made in Sheffield by the 50/50 sellers then yes it is "consistently poor". I happen to agree that the Panthers going on about "most consistent 50/50 draw" is cringeworthy, and I for one wish that they'd just STFU about it. HOWEVER... in no way, shape or form does the Steelers' total mean that ours is "consistently poor". The Panthers' 50/50 prize has consistently been the highest around for years... the fact that it has only recently - not even since the beginning of this season - been knocked into second place does not make it poor. Quite frankly, that kind of attitude is as bad as the "most consistent" drivel. Who's not giving them credit? Not me... I can't remember where I saw this (could have been THF, I don't recall) but it was mentioned - not by a Panthers fan and not here on the Cage - that the Steelers' 50/50 total is being padded out, probably by sponsors. Does that account for all of the increase? - hell, no... I have absolutely no doubt that there's been some damned good work there. But there are two factors that cause me to regard that suspicion as possibly having some validity:- - all of a sudden the Steelers 50/50 goes up by what amount? By what proportion? Doubled? Tripled? With the best will in the world, I find it hard to believe that such a massive increase can happen just like that. Remember that I work in sales myself... not just that, but I regularly sell 50/50 tickets for the Lions, and have done for GBSC in the past, as well as a few non-hockey organisations. I know exactly how hard it can be to increase sales by just a portion of the current amount, let alone by multiples of it. - the Sheffield Steelers Ice Hockey Club have a history of spin, propaganda, evasion, misdirection and outright lies. More so than any other club in the league. That doesn't mean they're always lying, but neither does it mean that anything they say can be just taken at face value. If they have got sponsors to pad out the 50/50, then purely on that level, I applaud them for it. Getting more money for the club and/or the sport is always to be applauded. However if that is the case, then they are also misrepresenting the situation, and that part of it is nothing short of deplorable. Perhaps they could. In fact, I'm pretty sure they could - IMHO the Panthers' communication (including website), merchandise and general fundraising methods are all getting somewhat stale. It appears that Tony Smith (we'll assume it's down to him - it may not be) is definitely proving to be a breath of fresh air on that score. One thing to bear in mind, however. Steelers fans (as a group) are always historically euphoric about their club, the owner, management, coaching etc when things are going well... frequently ignoring anything that may cast even the slightest shadow on that. And in the process, they are historically also cocky, arrogant and even abusive towards anyone who dares to think otherwise. It's only later on, when the cracks start to appear, that they start to recognise the little failings that lead to the bigger ones. We've seen that many times. Now I for one hope that Tony Smith truly is The Real Deal... if nothing else, the rest of us might feel a little more secure if we don't have one of the country's biggest clubs threatening to drag us all down with them. But it might be an idea not to get too euphoric about it all... past lessons and all that. |
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Post by glenngiant on Jan 20, 2012 22:50:06 GMT
Just as a neutral I too wold have to question the logic in why the Panthers and Steelers don't have live webcasts of their home games, surely there is money to be made by such a venture. With many games now being played midweek its not always easy for fans to make games so why not for a small fee offer them the choice to see the game live, OK people will say they will lose money on the door but over the season I think it would balance itself out.
I would imagine if a Panthers/Giants game was to be streamed then you could have potentially hundreds of viewers from across the Irish sea who would tune in as oppose to maybe an away support of 20_30 especially if its a midweek game.
UAll of the Scottish teams fans would no doubt pay to watch instead of trekking hundreds of miles with maybe a dozen supporters, Braehead, Hull, Coventry, Sheffield and the Giants all have highlights up within a day or 2 but go onto the Panthers site and it has a clip of noise from their match night DVD that they are trying to promote, by the time I waited on the DVD to arrive I will have already probably read the match reports, read the threads about the game or end up seeing the highlights on Sky.
How many fans do you think would stay away from games if they could stay at home and watch the game from the comfort of their own home? I don't think it would be hundreds but maybe worth trying for a season and weighing it up and see if it is cost effective.
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Jan 20, 2012 23:33:01 GMT
Just as a neutral I too wold have to question the logic in why the Panthers and Steelers don't have live webcasts of their home games, surely there is money to be made by such a venture. With many games now being played midweek its not always easy for fans to make games so why not for a small fee offer them the choice to see the game live, OK people will say they will lose money on the door but over the season I think it would balance itself out. That's the problem... "surely", "I think", etc. It's a judgement call. It may well be the wrong one - I don't pretend to know for sure, but looked at dispassionately, it could be judged either way. The Panthers have decided to go one way - no webcasts. Is that right? - pass. Remember that they also make money from DVD sales... you need to take into account potential money lost from ticket sales AND from DVD sales. Historically, the Panthers seem to have been very cautious when it comes to money matters - an attitude that is hard to fault when you look at how many clubs have been in serious financial trouble (or how many times a single club has done so! ). My guess is that they have an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" outlook on this sort of thing. Again, viewed dispassionately, that could be seen to be a good or bad thing - there's arguments either way. |
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Post by robbo2306 on Jan 21, 2012 9:03:29 GMT
Sorry Dave, your club started with the "most consistent 50/50 draw" rubbish. When you compare it to the great effort being made in Sheffield by the 50/50 sellers then yes it is "consistently poor". I happen to agree that the Panthers going on about "most consistent 50/50 draw" is cringeworthy, and I for one wish that they'd just STFU about it. HOWEVER... in no way, shape or form does the Steelers' total mean that ours is "consistently poor". The Panthers' 50/50 prize has consistently been the highest around for years... the fact that it has only recently - not even since the beginning of this season - been knocked into second place does not make it poor. Quite frankly, that kind of attitude is as bad as the "most consistent" drivel. Who's not giving them credit? Not me... I can't remember where I saw this (could have been THF, I don't recall) but it was mentioned - not by a Panthers fan and not here on the Cage - that the Steelers' 50/50 total is being padded out, probably by sponsors. Does that account for all of the increase? - hell, no... I have absolutely no doubt that there's been some damned good work there. But there are two factors that cause me to regard that suspicion as possibly having some validity:- - all of a sudden the Steelers 50/50 goes up by what amount? By what proportion? Doubled? Tripled? With the best will in the world, I find it hard to believe that such a massive increase can happen just like that. Remember that I work in sales myself... not just that, but I regularly sell 50/50 tickets for the Lions, and have done for GBSC in the past, as well as a few non-hockey organisations. I know exactly how hard it can be to increase sales by just a portion of the current amount, let alone by multiples of it. - the Sheffield Steelers Ice Hockey Club have a history of spin, propaganda, evasion, misdirection and outright lies. More so than any other club in the league. That doesn't mean they're always lying, but neither does it mean that anything they say can be just taken at face value. If they have got sponsors to pad out the 50/50, then purely on that level, I applaud them for it. Getting more money for the club and/or the sport is always to be applauded. However if that is the case, then they are also misrepresenting the situation, and that part of it is nothing short of deplorable. Perhaps they could. In fact, I'm pretty sure they could - IMHO the Panthers' communication (including website), merchandise and general fundraising methods are all getting somewhat stale. It appears that Tony Smith (we'll assume it's down to him - it may not be) is definitely proving to be a breath of fresh air on that score. One thing to bear in mind, however. Steelers fans (as a group) are always historically euphoric about their club, the owner, management, coaching etc when things are going well... frequently ignoring anything that may cast even the slightest shadow on that. And in the process, they are historically also cocky, arrogant and even abusive towards anyone who dares to think otherwise. It's only later on, when the cracks start to appear, that they start to recognise the little failings that lead to the bigger ones. We've seen that many times. Now I for one hope that Tony Smith truly is The Real Deal... if nothing else, the rest of us might feel a little more secure if we don't have one of the country's biggest clubs threatening to drag us all down with them. But it might be an idea not to get too euphoric about it all... past lessons and all that. Dave, Think we'll have to agree to disagree on the 50/50 draw debate. I've seen the changes with my own eyes. in all my 20 years of going I'd never once bought a 50/50 ticket, now I buy one every week beacuse I can see the effort being put it in to selling them by the people involved. Also when the prize gets as high as they do, people are for more likely to part with a couple of quid to have the chance to land a big prize. I think suggesting they are padded by sponsors is highly disrespectful to the work being put in by the people selling them. They work hard game in game out and deserve credit for what they do not somebody (on the fountain of all knowledge THF ) suggesting the club is lying. As for your draw, I said "in comparison" to ours. Let's be honest it's not really diificult to have the highest 50/50 draw in the league when you have the highest attendances by quite some margin. So, I stand by what I say, In comparison to ours it is "consistently poor". Just think what your prize totals could be if you put the same amount of effort in as Sheffield. I will shout from the rooftops about my club at present. Irrelevent of what has happened in the past, Tony Smith deserves a chance without peoples judgement being clouded by what BP/DB/NL did. So far this season I haven't seen any evidence of problems. He seems to have done many things right. It's still early days and things could still go wrong but I genuinely do believe for the first time this man is putting the club first. Only time will tell of course and it won't be an overnight success but I am confident that we are on the right track at the moment. Your club could do so much more on the whole website/Highlights/merchandising thing and I'm amazed with your background in sales you can't see that. I'd be asking questions of GM about why he's sitting back and being outdone in that department from your closest rivals up the M1. |
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Post by cooperphil156 on Jan 21, 2012 9:52:04 GMT
Glenngiant
"Just as a neutral I too wold have to question the logic in why the Panthers and Steelers don't have live webcasts of their home games, surely there is money to be made by such a venture. With many games now being played midweek its not always easy for fans to make games so why not for a small fee offer them the choice to see the game live, OK people will say they will lose money on the door but over the season I think it would balance itself out."
Yes I have made this point several times. I think that they believe that they will lose revenue from attendances. I think they might gain new fans and some who cannot attend will contribute. They should at least try it out. For example the Steelers match at Christmas was sold out 3 weeks in advance.
Fo me I am off abroad for 8 weeks down under and will certainly miss the ice hockey.
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Jan 21, 2012 11:08:08 GMT
Dave, Think we'll have to agree to disagree on the 50/50 draw debate. I've seen the changes with my own eyes. in all my 20 years of going I'd never once bought a 50/50 ticket, now I buy one every week beacuse I can see the effort being put it in to selling them by the people involved. Also when the prize gets as high as they do, people are for more likely to part with a couple of quid to have the chance to land a big prize. All very true. And like I said - I don't believe for one minute that the 50/50 ticket sales haven't legitimately gone up, and pretty strongly at that. Well done. What I am saying is that I find it very difficult to believe that ALL of such a massive increase has happened 100% legitimately, just like that. Surely you can understand that viewpoint? Because the Steelers have never lied to anyone, have they? And no - I am not dissing the 50/50 sellers at all... I know from personal experience just how hard that job is. Now who's being disrespectful to 50/50 sellers?- ours this time instead of yours. Granted, I too think that the whole Panthers-selling ethos could do with a bit of a boost, but please... don't complain about slights to your lot and then launch some of your own at us. I know you personally aren't a Simms clone... but that's treading very close to being like it. And our 50/50 total is not "consistently poor"... it has been - for a short time only, let's not forget that - consistently less than yours. That's all. I know that the overriding mindset in Sheffield is "we're the biggest, we're the best, we're no1 and everything else is crap"... but I expected better from you than that. Quite possibly. And it's only fair that you view your club in a positive light if you choose to do so. However, don't be surprised if we - who have for many years consistently been abused, insulted, derided and treated with contempt by your club and your fanbase - treat anything coming out of Sheffield with more than just a little skepticism. Quite possibly... and as I've said before, I hope you are. The only downside to that is the fact that the overall ethos of the club and fanbase - and particularly the attitude towards us - has not changed and is only likely to become more arrogant, more abusive and more contemptuous than it already is. Pardon me if I don't view that prospect with joy. Come on - read what I've already said - I do see that. Things have got a bit stale down here. I'm not questioning that. And whilst striving to be no1 is rarely a bad thing, perhaps you ought to temper your Steeler-typical headlong rush to be Top Dog (and also to deride anyone who isn't) with a bit of caution. How many times have your lot got too cocky, too pleased with their successes... and found that it's all gone bad on them? On the sales front, the Panthers aren't doing badly. They could do better - probably a lot better. And I would like to see that happen. However, there's something to be said about not overextending oneself. There needs to be a balance... rather than a complete adherence to the status quo (Panthers) or a headlong gonzoid rush to be (and be seen as) Top Dog (Steelers)... perhaps some middle ground is more sensible? The balance could, in my personal opinion, be moved up somewhat (bearing in mind that I, like just about everyone else here, have few facts and the rest is just opinion)... but maybe the club that has gone boom and bust more often than the Greek economy could learn a thing or two from the club that has steadily and safely grown. |
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Post by robbo2306 on Jan 21, 2012 13:35:29 GMT
On my phone so it's a short one.
Rivalry, that's why you think like you do Dave. Anything that has happened between Steelers and Nottingham is tame compared to the stuff between Wednesday and the Blades. I've taken so much stick over the years for following Wednesday from Blades fans that anything that is said or happens at Hockey is water off a ducks back.
Seriously the stuff you constantly go on about is nothing compared to football. It's local sporting rivalry, nothing more.
Will post more this evening when back home.
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Post by texpef on Jan 21, 2012 14:52:53 GMT
I see what you are saying Robbo but the reality is the clubs and their fans (hockey now) come from two very distinct histories...
As you probably already know panthers were reformed from scratch with little money and initially little support and for a long time were the underdogs of the league therefore little was expected from the fanbase other than to have a team to support.
Steelers on the other hand hit the league with a bang, big club, big team and big results, the fanbase was built on razzamatazz and winning.... ALOT. Fans expected and were given trophies, it is very fotunate that the club hasnt had to go through several years of barren seasons because i dread to think what it could do to the fanbase watching.. (or should that be not watching)
Yes, i agree its about rivalry but for alot of the time initially for sheffield (as Shaggs says) and even as current as last season its about belittling the other clubs (but in particular Nottingham) and bigging itself up and if that means bending (re: breaking) a few rules such as a wagecap break then the attitude has been so be it. Even this season we were all told at the start of the season that the wagebill would be cut and losing dowd and getting a new college kid in it seemed to be true but as of last week they were carrying 2 EXTRA imports (plus they have more NHL/AHL time on their roster than panthers for example) and we are lead to believe that selling 50/50 tickets has created this surplus (bearing in mind there was no season ticket money as the last administration spent what they didnt have for on ice success as well) and rather than use the "surplus" to create a viable on going concern the money is spent on short term success.. great business plan that one, what happens next year if things arent going well and there is no money left to upgrade the team? Oh they will spend it anyway is the steelers motto...
One last comment the steelers average gate this season is what? 3500-4000 people? 50/50 tickets are bought in £1 lots? so they are saying that over 50% of the crowd buy at least one 50/50 tickets... total garbage...
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Helen B
Terry Kurtenbach
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Post by Helen B on Jan 21, 2012 16:02:16 GMT
Shaggy, normally your posts are very balanced, and worth a read, but from what I've read on this thread, you have come across as very very bitter. Come on, I know you're better than that.
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Post by ggggranville on Jan 21, 2012 17:39:25 GMT
Fans have been coming here from steelerland happy that the now inflated 50/50 draw and increased merchandise has helped towards them recruit their additional import(s). They seem to forget the massive hit (anything up to 300K) the organisation received with lost season ticket revenue. Now added to that the loss of a prime Saturday slot for the game against us and the moving of two fixtures, including the play off qualifier to Ice Sheffield will diminish resources further. All their new additional revenue gone in one stroke.
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Post by spik on Jan 21, 2012 18:17:34 GMT
Is it assumed that when 50/50 ticket sales plummet, players will be released then?
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Jan 21, 2012 23:08:31 GMT
Rivalry, that's why you think like you do Dave. Anything that has happened between Steelers and Nottingham is tame compared to the stuff between Wednesday and the Blades. I've taken so much stick over the years for following Wednesday from Blades fans that anything that is said or happens at Hockey is water off a ducks back. Seriously the stuff you constantly go on about is nothing compared to football. It's local sporting rivalry, nothing more. Quite frankly, I couldn't give a toss about football. Comparisons between the sports are IMHO pointless - chalk and cheese. And no... "rivalry" isn't why I think the way I do. As I've said time and again, I don't regard the Steelers as "rivals"... to my mind, ever since the very first season I watched (1999-2000) that title has gone to the Cardiff Devils. I regard the Steelers the way I do solely as a result of their own actions. Like it or not, that's how it is. Shaggy, normally your posts are very balanced, and worth a read, but from what I've read on this thread, you have come across as very very bitter. Come on, I know you're better than that. Bitter? Now why should I be bitter? Having watched the Panthers for 13 seasons now, and right throughout that time, have seen my team, my fellow fans and my own self personally be on the receiving end of an incessant campaign of abuse and contempt from a club that displays all of the moral fibre of an expenses-cheating MP, and a fanbase that (in general) has been nothing short of arrogant, blinkered and abusive. A deliberate campaign designed to denigrate us at every turn. Forgive me if I am simply sick to death of it. Were it not that I care for the sport as a whole, and recognise that every single club is needed, I would wish the Steelers dead and buried with a stake through their collective heart (if such an organ could even be located). It's not even hatred... I'm just sick and tired of pretty much everything to do with that club - a few individuals excepted. No doubt I'll be on the receiving end of more abuse for saying this, but what else is new? And if any of you up there can't see that this is completely and utterly a result of your club's and your fanbase's own actions, then I'm afraid that there's no hope for you. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2012 23:56:42 GMT
panthers were reformed from scratch I know I'm being pedantic here, but not entirely from scratch. The then Sheffield team (Sabres) was moved to Nottingham. |
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Post by texpef on Jan 22, 2012 1:35:24 GMT
Scratch as in new club but one with very low quality of players is the point i was making Stef and yes i know they were formed out of the sabres but it wasnt important in what i was trying to say...
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Funny how nobody has ever accused the Panthers' 50/50 prizes of being poor for... well, as long as I can remember. Certainly not as long as we've been in the NIC. In fact, up to this point they have consistently been the largest prizes in the league - hell, in the whole country - for many years! Now just because yours have gone way up - to such heights that even only a mildly-suspicious onlooker would wonder if they weren't being padded somehow - they are "poor"?
