Shorty
Paul Adey
Still here for Private Messages
Posts: 6,636
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Post by Shorty on Dec 14, 2011 14:11:01 GMT
Personally I believe both the player AND the club should be punished. The player for his reckless attitude towards a referee and the club for failing to control it's playing and coaching staff. Min 20 games for the player, you cannot go near a referee and if he gets away with it, what kind of message does that send to the referees. The club should be fined heavily and warned about their future conduct, you cannot have coaches coming onto the ice to confront a referee like that. Maybe a 2/3 game ban for Doug, similar to the touchline ban in football. As with everything else the EIHL needs to get it's house in order and treat every club in the same manner, be it a Fife/Dundee or a Nottigham/Sheffield/Belfast. I won't be holding my breath though. I know its the season of good will and all that, and even if it wasnt, I actually agree with you on this. I'm making a note in my diary and going for a lie down.
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Post by elliottstanley on Dec 14, 2011 14:47:05 GMT
Remainder of the season ban. Minimum. And Christiansen needs to be reprimanded too for failing to control his players. I know people will say ‘he can’t be held responsible for one man’s actions taken off his own back’ but I’m afraid he can, and he should be as he’s the boss. There needs to be two messages from the league as a result of the action they take:
1) You do not, under any circumstances, put the safety of an official in danger other than that which they themselves accept as being part and parcel of the game as a result of being on the ice during a game they are presiding over. Slashing a stick into the plexi like that is negligent behaviour, regardless of whether momentum took him closer to Carson or not. 2) As a coach you need to remind your players of 1) at regular intervals during the season (as regular as you deem necessary) so that you yourself are in no doubt that you’ve done all you can to ensure the players on the ice understand the connotations should they choose not to follow your instructions.
Allied to the above the Giants should already have cut Clarke and sent him home (didn’t we do that with Jim Shepherd?) to send a message to any other players that behaviour like that will have a serious and immediate impact on their earning ablity.
There cannot be any excuse when it comes to this sort of behaviour.
Just as a thought – if the stick had connected with Carson, and injured him, is he insured by the league for the potentially serious injuries he could sustain? Would his earning ability in his day job be covered whilst he recovered?
Same thing again this, isn’t it – league governance.
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Post by pantherdman on Dec 14, 2011 14:47:47 GMT
Personally I believe both the player AND the club should be punished. The player for his reckless attitude towards a referee and the club for failing to control it's playing and coaching staff. Min 20 games for the player, you cannot go near a referee and if he gets away with it, what kind of message does that send to the referees. The club should be fined heavily and warned about their future conduct, you cannot have coaches coming onto the ice to confront a referee like that. Maybe a 2/3 game ban for Doug, similar to the touchline ban in football. As with everything else the EIHL needs to get it's house in order and treat every club in the same manner, be it a Fife/Dundee or a Nottigham/Sheffield/Belfast. I won't be holding my breath though. I know its the season of good will and all that, and even if it wasnt, I actually agree with you on this. I'm making a note in my diary and going for a lie down. Merry Christmas Robbo, totally agree with you. +1
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Post by pantherdman on Dec 14, 2011 14:51:39 GMT
Remainder of the season ban. Minimum. And Christiansen needs to be reprimanded too for failing to control his players. I know people will say ‘he can’t be held responsible for one man’s actions taken off his own back’ but I’m afraid he can, and he should be as he’s the boss. There needs to be two messages from the league as a result of the action they take: 1) You do not, under any circumstances, put the safety of an official in danger other than that which they themselves accept as being part and parcel of the game as a result of being on the ice during a game they are presiding over. Slashing a stick into the plexi like that is negligent behaviour, regardless of whether momentum took him closer to Carson or not. 2) As a coach you need to remind your players of 1) at regular intervals during the season (as regular as you deem necessary) so that you yourself are in no doubt that you’ve done all you can to ensure the players on the ice understand the connotations should they choose not to follow your instructions. Allied to the above the Giants should already have cut Clarke and sent him home (didn’t we do that with Jim Shepherd?) to send a message to any other players that behaviour like that will have a serious and immediate impact on their earning ablity. There cannot be any excuse when it comes to this sort of behaviour. Just as a thought – if the stick had connected with Carson, and injured him, is he insured by the league for the potentially serious injuries he could sustain? Would his earning ability in his day job be covered whilst he recovered? Same thing again this, isn’t it – league governance. Wow, that almost reads like someting that should be in a big book of rules??? I know, we should call it a rule book and issue it so that everyone knows what is and isn't acceptable, in plain English. You did forget option 3, the good old Elite league magic carpet and brush. Ho Ho Ho
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Post by checkingtothehead on Dec 14, 2011 17:36:27 GMT
Its funny cause it was Carson and I really don't care if he was hurt.
Personally I think Clarke was going over to complain, and slipped and the Steelers player skated past, I do not think his intention was to hit Carson.
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d
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 123
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Post by d on Dec 14, 2011 18:32:16 GMT
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Post by PantherTom on Dec 14, 2011 18:56:06 GMT
That's quite good news actually means Belfast must be an import down for 6 games not seen their fixtures but don't think we play them while he's out
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Post by Rob Scott on Dec 14, 2011 19:06:27 GMT
That's quite good news actually means Belfast must be an import down for 6 games not seen their fixtures but don't think we play them while he's out Dundee. Edinburgh. Braehead x2 and Cardiff.
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Post by kezypanther on Dec 14, 2011 19:07:07 GMT
I wouldn't call that good news he deserves more if it was "deliberate", it's crazy to think he went for a referee contact or not and only got 6 games. This league is getting quiete daft. Oh and there fixtures dont look difficult for when he's out so full expect them to win them all.
Flyers Dundee caps Clan x2 Devils
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Post by GuinnessMan on Dec 14, 2011 19:16:27 GMT
Giants next 5 games
Sat, Dec 17/11 7:00 pm GMT Dundee at Belfast 7:00 pm GMT Fri, Dec 23/11 7:30 pm GMT Edinburgh at Belfast 7:30 pm GMT Mon, Dec 26/11 6:00 pm GMT Belfast at Braehead 6:00 pm GMT Tue, Dec 27/11 7:00 pm GMT Braehead at Belfast 7:00 pm GMT Fri, Dec 30/11 7:00 pm GMT Cardiff at Belfast 7:00 pm GMT
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Post by GuinnessMan on Dec 14, 2011 19:17:58 GMT
beat me to it Kezy!
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Post by pantherdman on Dec 14, 2011 19:20:26 GMT
So a precedent has been set and they've completely ignored it. Classic Elite league buffoonery. Merry Christmas giants.
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5+game
Terry Kurtenbach
Posts: 2,974
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Post by 5+game on Dec 14, 2011 20:15:50 GMT
What a complete joke, Clarke gets 6 games for an attack on a referee and last season Meyers got 7 games for rugby tackling Bret Jager in the bench clearence.
Well i know which one was the worst of the two pitty the elite league board dont.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Dec 14, 2011 20:16:46 GMT
Well, if six games is all you get for doing that then i think one or two officials ought to start being rather more careful who they upset,or start taking speed skating lessons !
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Doughnut
Forum Admin
mmmmmm ... Doughnuts
Posts: 5,072
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Post by Doughnut on Dec 14, 2011 20:50:48 GMT
Has anyone found a better video yet?
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warx
Robert Lachowicz
"Fear the Beard"
Posts: 521
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Post by warx on Dec 14, 2011 21:15:01 GMT
Cairns- rest of the season. Sharp- 20 games. Clarke- 6 games...
Great way to stick to the precedent.
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5+game
Terry Kurtenbach
Posts: 2,974
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Post by 5+game on Dec 14, 2011 21:49:46 GMT
Cairns- rest of the season. Sharp- 20 games. Clarke- 6 games... Great way to stick to the precedent. You forgot Campbell 3 games biting a linesman
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Post by StolenAngelSlice on Dec 14, 2011 22:06:17 GMT
Now after watching the game in question I came on here and said that I sympathised with DC's reaction at the end of the game however, pantherdman states a very good case.
One thing that has made me dislike the likes of football and to a degree admire rugby union is the mentality of respect and respect of the officials. Players should not be able to chirp (captain's aside), remonstrate, abuse, make contact with (especially in fights), etc. with the referee and the same should apply to the coaches. So for DC's actions a bench ban as seen in football.
With this incident, I actually interpreted this as a slip in the process of going to remonstrate which to me would warrant/explain leniency when disciplining. However, it is interesting to put the 6 game ban into perspective alongside Meyers from last year and Sharp. The way I see it is that the previous bans were excessive and this one isn't too bad (personally I would have gone 8-9).
One thing I don't get is the talk of punishing the player not the club. The player represents the club. The club is ultimately responsible for the player. So for me if an import is banned then no replacement should be allowed for the reason that their is no detriment to the club (means dependant, which in turn creates an unfair advantage IMO) The argument which arises around a Brit being banned on such grounds is a valid one but when have we seen it before and are we likely to see it again?
P.s sorry for the ramblings
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Post by dodit on Dec 14, 2011 22:24:23 GMT
6 Games? Absolute Bull!
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Post by Nemesis on Dec 14, 2011 22:31:51 GMT
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Post by StolenAngelSlice on Dec 14, 2011 22:35:38 GMT
Haha well that view puts the 'slip theory' to bed. Hmmm might need to re-think my outlook on this.
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
Posts: 10,995
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Post by Shaggy on Dec 14, 2011 22:39:23 GMT
That doesn't just put the 'slip theory' to bed... it slaughters it!
Whether Clarke was just swinging his stick at the boards in anger/frustration and simply didn't notice Carson (yeah, right!) or deliberately went to either hit him or scare him... there was absolutely intent there. No slip, no trip, no accident.
6 games? - what a bloody joke.
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Post by pantherskatie on Dec 14, 2011 22:47:35 GMT
This is one of my biggest bug bears about this league, the total lack of respect for officials from the top down. The league seemingly not giving a stuff about them, if rumours are to be believed, not paying them on time last season. not protecting them or backing them up against abuse. Coaches lambasting officials, launching obscene tirades in their direction. I've seen the GB coach throw a water bottle in the direction of the official to 'get his attention'. I've seen coaches criticising officials in the press. I've seen players fighting when the officials are in. players bite officials, now a player launching himself at the ref. Players constantly chirping and using foul language towards the officials, players diving trying to con the refs. And all of this has gone unpunished??? why?? in any professional sport these actions would be unacceptable, why not so in hockey? I wish the officials would have gone on strike last season, may have been the best thing never to happen. If these antics were cut out the refs might be able to focus on their jobs and actually improve. If I was a ref i would have quit long ago. This is quite possibly the best post I have read in a long time. A lot more people need to realise and have the same mentality towards some officials as you have. Without them, we wouldn't have a league. The problems don't lie with them!
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Post by robbo2306 on Dec 14, 2011 23:06:10 GMT
What a complete and utter joke. The league have bottled it again. Think if I was a ref I would be seriously thinking about whether I would wish to carry on after this. You simply cannot allow players to act in that way. 6 games for almost taking Carson's head off......unbelievable!! The people running this league never fail to amaze me!! Edit : Well played Belfast, your phone calls obviously worked. Shocking from the league and shocking Belfast themselves haven't punished the player too. And some people want Kelman in charge of the league.
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abi
Jim Keyes
Posts: 899
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Post by abi on Dec 14, 2011 23:24:13 GMT
Only 6 games? Absolute madness! Easily every bit as bad as the Cairns incident, probably more intent there, and a ban that is about a third of the size of Cairns'. You just couldn't make it up!! He should have been gone for the rest of the season for that, but what does it matter as the Giants have sent him packing anyways. Clearly they knew there was intent there as well.
As for signings during bans etc - no, I don't think you should be allowed to replace like for like during a ban. I wouldn't have a problem with the Giants bringing in a young brit kid to take some shifts etc, but no like for likes. Club should have control over their team and this is their punishment (unless the kid happens to be the next Sidney Crosby, but realistically speaking...) as I don't think fines would ever work in such a financially unstable league. Motivation not to misbehave yes, but could you imagine the uproar if a fine was slapped on the Giants and they subsequently went into money trouble? League would never do it.
Oh and just FYI about the Sharp 20 game incident, the length of the ban wasn't determined solely by what happened with the official but also the fact he left the bench, amongst other things. So it was kind of a tot up of leaving the bench + having a barmy with someone + accidentally high sticking a lino = 20 games.
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