Doughnut
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Post by Doughnut on Dec 14, 2011 9:52:21 GMT
For what it's worth, I agree with Doom.
Precedent means nothing. Especially in this league, and especially from a past season. Just because they did something silly back then that doesn't mean they always have to.
How does it work in other leagues and other sports? I can't think of any other where the team would have to play a man down because someone has a multi-game ban.
A ban on a player should be just that. A ban on an import should be no more or less of a punishment to a team than a ban on a Brit of similar quality.
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Doom
Greg Hadden
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Post by Doom on Dec 14, 2011 9:55:32 GMT
Number of Brits on a roster is not restricted. Number of imports is. If an import gets a ban the team should play with the reduced number of imports for the length of the ban. So effectively Brits are free to do what they want without harming the team, but imports aren't......That doesn't seem right to me. As a Sheffield supporter it would be in my interest to see Belfast have to sit out an import, but it doesn't rest easy with me. Regards Doom
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5+game
Terry Kurtenbach
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Post by 5+game on Dec 14, 2011 10:41:36 GMT
For what it's worth, I agree with Doom. Precedent means nothing. Especially in this league, and especially from a past season. Just because they did something silly back then that doesn't mean they always have to. How does it work in other leagues and other sports? I can't think of any other where the team would have to play a man down because someone has a multi-game ban. A ban on a player should be just that. A ban on an import should be no more or less of a punishment to a team than a ban on a Brit of similar quality. If this is to be the way it works then i fully expect acouple of Alex Penner type players signed as extra imports and be running goalies galore. Unfortunately whilst ever we limit the numberof imports alowed, they are going to get treated differently to Brits.
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Post by PantherTom on Dec 14, 2011 11:27:29 GMT
Should be banned for 2 years like cairns was Cairns was banned for life No he was banned from european ice hockey for 2 years
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Shorty
Paul Adey
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Post by Shorty on Dec 14, 2011 11:32:27 GMT
If this is to be the way it works then i fully expect acouple of Alex Penner type players signed as extra imports and be running goalies galore. Absolutely. It would be carnage, and with clubs allegedly not carrying insurance, they would not be able to afford to bring in replacements if they have to continue paying a number of players injured by opposition nutters. The clubs have a responsibility when it comes to signing players, and also for their actions. The club must be penalised for the actions of their players.
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5+game
Terry Kurtenbach
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Post by 5+game on Dec 14, 2011 11:48:29 GMT
Cairns was banned for life No he was banned from european ice hockey for 2 years at the time i remember it being reported that he was banned for life from the EIHL.
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Post by pantherdman on Dec 14, 2011 11:58:30 GMT
Come on, this guy plays for Belfast , there won t be a ban of any sort ! +1 if he was wearing a Panthers shirt he'd already be on the plane, because we would have sacked him. We know the league don't give 2 hoots about the officials, but it's about time they sent a clear message . this is unacceptable. The video is a little unclear, but if he has gone for an official 10 games ban, if he has made contact, lifetime ban.
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Doughnut
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mmmmmm ... Doughnuts
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Post by Doughnut on Dec 14, 2011 12:32:03 GMT
If this is to be the way it works then i fully expect acouple of Alex Penner type players signed as extra imports and be running goalies galore. Absolutely. It would be carnage I think you're both drastically over exaggerating. If a team wanted to do that then they could go out and sign someone like Sharp, who could go out and get a ban for running goalies or refs or whatever without the ban affecting the team. Nobody has though. Getting an import in just to go and cause carnage until he gets a ban and then going out and getting another import, ad infinitim, wouldn't be a cost free enterprise for any team. I think that's just one of the reasons the carnage you predict wouldn't happen. How do other leagues handle this kind of thing? IIRC the AHL and ECHL have a limit on veterans and imports. What happens there if one of them gets banned?
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lee
David Clarke
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Post by lee on Dec 14, 2011 12:39:18 GMT
hockey players may be rough and tough but they are not animals, i think the assumption that people woud send folk out to intentionally hurt / cause serious injury and maim on purpose is a bit ridiculous!
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Post by PantherTom on Dec 14, 2011 12:42:16 GMT
hockey players may be rough and tough but they are not animals, i think the assumption that people woud send folk out to intentionally hurt / cause serious injury and maim on purpose is a bit ridiculous! Have you actually watched the video?
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Yotes
Forum Admin
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Post by Yotes on Dec 14, 2011 12:46:09 GMT
IIRC When Jim Sheppard got banned for spearing we released him and his ban would stand with anyone who then signed him in the EIHL effectively ending his EIHL career but allowing us to sign a replacement, Bergin IIRC. Tis true, and if belfast were to do the same i would not have a problem. But whilst ever he isemployed by them then they should play an import down. I don't really see much difference, other than one costs Belfast money (extra wages) and the other didn't cost us anything. Why was it OK for us to avoid this team punishment some people want to see? I don't think this year there's a limit on the number of imports you can have on the books is there, just the number that can dress for any particular game, so if they've got the players I'd have no problem with them using them. If we played short while Lepine was out, and if we had a spare import at the time (can't remember when the likes of Nikolov began to arrive), I can't understand that decision at all. If the league want to create some "failure to control their players" type punishments for teams for this situation I'd agree with that too, money could go into a referees training fund , although I can't see them signing up to fine themselves.
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Shorty
Paul Adey
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Post by Shorty on Dec 14, 2011 12:52:04 GMT
hockey players may be rough and tough but they are not animals, i think the assumption that people woud send folk out to intentionally hurt / cause serious injury and maim on purpose is a bit ridiculous! Whats the point of enforcers then? Most of the ones we have had in the UK have not been there to police the opposition. Fighting within seconds of the puck being dropped is not about keeping the opposition honest. We have also seen instances where such players have targetted non-enforcer type players in an effort to get one of the opposition to fight and out of the game. Carnage is an exageration, but there are enough instances of players being deliberately hurt for the suggestion not to be ridiculous.
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lee
David Clarke
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Post by lee on Dec 14, 2011 12:59:40 GMT
hockey players may be rough and tough but they are not animals, i think the assumption that people woud send folk out to intentionally hurt / cause serious injury and maim on purpose is a bit ridiculous! Have you actually watched the video? yes.
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lee
David Clarke
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Post by lee on Dec 14, 2011 13:02:57 GMT
hockey players may be rough and tough but they are not animals, i think the assumption that people woud send folk out to intentionally hurt / cause serious injury and maim on purpose is a bit ridiculous! Whats the point of enforcers then? Most of the ones we have had in the UK have not been there to police the opposition. Fighting within seconds of the puck being dropped is not about keeping the opposition honest. We have also seen instances where such players have targetted non-enforcer type players in an effort to get one of the opposition to fight and out of the game. Carnage is an exageration, but there are enough instances of players being deliberately hurt for the suggestion not to be ridiculous. fighting within seconds is always between two people who agree to it, hence the action of dropping the gloves. enforcers are their to police and within ice hockey even non enforcers understand the rules and expectations where retaliation is concerned. i understand things happen during the heat of a game and players injure each other... thats very different from a team signing players with the specific purpose of being there to go out for one shift in one game and injure a player on a team as a tactic. in my opinion, maybe i am niave but i tend to think that the players ar emore human than simply being machines executing the orders of a coach regardless of how ridiculous they request is.
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5+game
Terry Kurtenbach
Posts: 2,974
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Post by 5+game on Dec 14, 2011 13:07:32 GMT
hockey players may be rough and tough but they are not animals, i think the assumption that people woud send folk out to intentionally hurt / cause serious injury and maim on purpose is a bit ridiculous! Lee, May i sugest that you watch the video below and then think if my post is rediculous. Fast forward to about 3mins Both Yablonski and Brennan have no regards for the safety of the players they attack.
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lee
David Clarke
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Post by lee on Dec 14, 2011 13:12:26 GMT
i can't access you tube at work mate,
i do understand that SOME players are a bit nuts and like to hurt people. its the concept of a team signing a bunch of these with the intention of it being OK for them to commit (essentiallY) assault on a nother player and then not play again for the rest of the season i find a tad ridiculous in this conversation.
for what its worth i hope Aaron Clarke gets a ban... long enough to punish his action, and short enough for belfast to retain him and play short handed rather than simply cutting him.
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Post by PantherTom on Dec 14, 2011 13:12:56 GMT
Have you actually watched the video? yes. clearly not with your eyes then its obvious clarke is trying to hurt the ref
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Post by robbo2306 on Dec 14, 2011 13:15:49 GMT
Personally I believe both the player AND the club should be punished. The player for his reckless attitude towards a referee and the club for failing to control it's playing and coaching staff.
Min 20 games for the player, you cannot go near a referee and if he gets away with it, what kind of message does that send to the referees. The club should be fined heavily and warned about their future conduct, you cannot have coaches coming onto the ice to confront a referee like that. Maybe a 2/3 game ban for Doug, similar to the touchline ban in football.
As with everything else the EIHL needs to get it's house in order and treat every club in the same manner, be it a Fife/Dundee or a Nottigham/Sheffield/Belfast.
I won't be holding my breath though.
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lee
David Clarke
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Post by lee on Dec 14, 2011 13:20:51 GMT
clearly not with your eyes then its obvious clarke is trying to hurt the ref thanks for your ludicrous addition to the discussion. for the record see my previous post as to my thoughts on Aaron Clarkes actions. then i suggest you read the other parts
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2011 13:38:26 GMT
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Post by pantherdman on Dec 14, 2011 13:39:26 GMT
This is one of my biggest bug bears about this league, the total lack of respect for officials from the top down.
The league seemingly not giving a stuff about them, if rumours are to be believed, not paying them on time last season. not protecting them or backing them up against abuse.
Coaches lambasting officials, launching obscene tirades in their direction. I've seen the GB coach throw a water bottle in the direction of the official to 'get his attention'. I've seen coaches criticising officials in the press.
I've seen players fighting when the officials are in. players bite officials, now a player launching himself at the ref. Players constantly chirping and using foul language towards the officials, players diving trying to con the refs. And all of this has gone unpunished??? why?? in any professional sport these actions would be unacceptable, why not so in hockey?
I wish the officials would have gone on strike last season, may have been the best thing never to happen. If these antics were cut out the refs might be able to focus on their jobs and actually improve.
If I was a ref i would have quit long ago.
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Doughnut
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Post by Doughnut on Dec 14, 2011 13:39:53 GMT
clearly not with your eyes then its obvious clarke is trying to hurt the ref There's nothing clear about that video.
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Post by Rob Scott on Dec 14, 2011 13:46:27 GMT
clearly not with your eyes then its obvious clarke is trying to hurt the ref There's nothing clear about that video. The player moving in the direction of the official is 100% clear.
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Post by panthers4ever on Dec 14, 2011 13:49:23 GMT
Cant wait to see what the league do about this one
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jester
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 533
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Post by jester on Dec 14, 2011 13:53:51 GMT
Should get player of the week
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