Higgy
Les Strongman
Posts: 5,293
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Post by Higgy on Dec 6, 2011 21:13:08 GMT
Koop11 - This position Coventry are in, do you think they'd have been in it if they hadn't taken on Hull? A simple yes/no answer please, no convoluted of tale of woe ending in "arena teams did it" or "Nottingham had success handed to them on a plate". As I have said previously and as has seemingly been brushed over, Neil Black enforced a belt tightening whilst Panthers moved to the NIC. So the team was uncompetitive compared to the likes of Sheffield, Cardiff and Coventry but at the same time had to attract numbers to afford the £10k a night rental fees. Arenas may be nice but they are also a millstone, yet Panthers managed playing out of said millstone whilst being way off the mark with regards player quality compared to the then cheque book flashers at Cardiff and Sheffield. Cut your suit to match your cloth and form a solid base to build upon. Yes you'll be uncompetitive for awhile but hey, we've been there and are still here. Of course the issue is that other fans can't cope with being uncompetitive for awhile, as Panthers fans had to, they just want to drag everyone down and be competitive in a poor quality league. At the time the Panthers moved to the NIC the Blaze and the Devils were both in the BNL....where the costs were extremely lower than they were in the ISL ! The Devils were in the ISL when we moved to the arena....sorry to be pedantic
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Post by elliottstanley on Dec 6, 2011 21:24:21 GMT
Can someone put figures against the Coventry crowd numbers? Just wondered what the factors are and the actual figures behind them. I hear the thing about the sponsor deserting them and that will be a decent bit of funding gone but just wondered what other real facts we have to go on - ultimately I'm wondering what the size of the hole that needs plugging is and how much of it is down to footfall and how much is down to other income deficits.
<edit to add>....
by figures I mean average last year vs average so far this season, few like for like game comparisons, any stats on season ticket numbers?
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Dec 6, 2011 21:54:39 GMT
I don't know the answer to your question. Nor do you for that matter so please don't respond with tales of Coventry are only in this position becuase they purchased a team not fit to stand alone in this league. Of course it's not the only reason... but it's almost certainly one of them. What is surely another reason is one that has been vehemently denied by Blaze fans for years now... that their team has been spending up to the level of the so-called 'big boys' for years now... and now that they may be cutting that spending a little - all of a sudden it's a crisis? After all - isn't it interesting that for years now whenever the Panthers sign a decent player, we've had loads of Coventry fans blathering on about how we're vastly outspending them... yet haven't the Blaze had a whole slew of top players all at the same time? What - were they playing for peanuts or the love of the team? (Come on - you know that's the province of the Belfast Giants and the former Newcastle Vipers... ). I mean... Calder, Carlson, Weaver, Owen, Hirsch, Chambers, Fulghum, Stewart, etc... is anyone really naive enough to think that little lot wasn't part of one of the more expensive rosters that season? Coventry may well be in trouble right now (or they could be exaggerating - who knows? Why should we believe their PRs any more than we believe any other club's, including our own?)... but let's not kid ourselves. If they need help, fine... but let's not fool ourselves into not thinking that the greatest probability is that this is largely self-inflicted.
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yeti
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 422
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Post by yeti on Dec 7, 2011 11:07:27 GMT
Completely agree Shaggy. All this we can't afford to compete with the arena teams is only something that has happened since Coventry have lost the sponsors who paid certain players wages ect and then loss of furthur sponsors. It is only the last couple of years that they have not been one of the biggest spenders in the league and now we are supposed to feel sorry for them. Seen it all before with other teams winning the league with big budgets and then dropping to lower leagues within a few years or vanishing all together here's just a few Ayr, Bracknell, Manchester and Cardiff and at some point or other all their fans have all mentioned 1956 to me. Now we are finally in the prosition to have a good go at the league let's drop the standard and level the playing field so those big bad Panthers don't have an advatage anymore.
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Post by elliottstanley on Dec 7, 2011 11:53:47 GMT
Can someone put figures against the Coventry crowd numbers? Just wondered what the factors are and the actual figures behind them. I hear the thing about the sponsor deserting them and that will be a decent bit of funding gone but just wondered what other real facts we have to go on - ultimately I'm wondering what the size of the hole that needs plugging is and how much of it is down to footfall and how much is down to other income deficits. <edit to add>.... by figures I mean average last year vs average so far this season, few like for like game comparisons, any stats on season ticket numbers? anyone?
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Post by NottinghamMatt on Dec 7, 2011 12:10:42 GMT
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Post by rangers on Dec 7, 2011 12:35:24 GMT
Spanish football league is a two team league in terms of the title. The other clubs contest the cup and European places. And the rest of the league is pretty dreadful . The problem is the rich get richer, and the rest cant cope. Not a problem in a country's national sport league - a huge problem in minority sports. I have no problem whatsoever if Nottingham and Belfast win the league every year. In every league there are top teams and not top teams. The problem I would have is if games between those two and teams like Coventry, Cardiff etc became blow-outs on a regular basis.
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Shaggy
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Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Dec 7, 2011 13:19:46 GMT
The problem I would have is if games between those two and teams like Coventry, Cardiff etc became blow-outs on a regular basis. But how likely is that? After all... games between the 'top' teams and the acknowledged bottom teams like Dundee and Fife aren't always blow-outs, are they? So even if (unlikely IMHO) Cardiff & Coventry dropped to that kind of level, it still wouldn't be totally one-sided. I don't think we should be panicking about a purely theoretical scenario which isn't even likely to be as bad as doomsyaers are predicting. Less histrionics, more realism?
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Post by rangers on Dec 7, 2011 13:41:10 GMT
Even if not blow outs, I think you need at least 4 teams who are 'competative.' If you knew Nottingham/Belfast/Rich Team A were going to beat every other team 99 times out of 100, it wouldnt be that interesting. Thats my view anyway.
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Post by pantherfan007 on Dec 7, 2011 13:56:22 GMT
I think this 'crisis' should be reframed. Rather than "we can't exist because Nottingham are spending too much" they should be honest and say "we aren't going to be able to win the league for a while, just like Nottingham, because we're going to have to spend only what we can afford to. Just like Nottingham."
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
Posts: 10,995
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Post by Shaggy on Dec 7, 2011 13:57:08 GMT
Even if not blow outs, I think you need at least 4 teams who are 'competative.' If you knew Nottingham/Belfast/Rich Team A were going to beat every other team 99 times out of 100, it wouldnt be that interesting. Thats my view anyway. I can understand that point of view... thankfully we're not there yet, are we? There have been some damned close games between the 'big' and 'little' teams this season... and previous experience would indicate that this is only likely to be more apparent not less as the season goes on...
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Post by elliottstanley on Dec 7, 2011 17:09:59 GMT
Even if not blow outs, I think you need at least 4 teams who are 'competative.' If you knew Nottingham/Belfast/Rich Team A were going to beat every other team 99 times out of 100, it wouldnt be that interesting. Thats my view anyway. I can understand that point of view... thankfully we're not there yet, are we? There have been some damned close games between the 'big' and 'little' teams this season... and previous experience would indicate that this is only likely to be more apparent not less as the season goes on... This supposed "gulf" is exaggerated massively. Panthers could probably afford to create the gulf you are suggesting but they don't. Belfast can't afford to, and don't. Over the years you could argue some teams have created something of a gulf, when they couldn't afford to, but obviously that's not my place to comment.
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