Rich
Paul Adey
Go hard or go home
Posts: 6,691
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Post by Rich on Jan 11, 2010 17:55:23 GMT
That surpises me about the average attendance as we seem to have had a lot more sub 4,000 crowds than we did last season even on saturdays...i suspect that would be due to more games v Hull and Caps on saturdays which never bring the big gates anyway. I think Bison games were often low attended games though. Also weve had a couple of promotions already this season so I think it paints an untrue picture. The fact is though, the Panthers brand is so strong it will stay at roughly the same figure unless something major happens, and people upstairs know it.
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Post by spik on Jan 11, 2010 18:41:32 GMT
I'll go against the grain, I still have the same passion for the Panthers as I've always had. Sure, not winning the league gets you down but I still enjoy going. Jono, you've just ruined the thread.I thought this was a moaners paradise (me included of course)till you mentioned some positive.... ;D I agree with all the comments here. You see it could be that we all who are getting a tad stale ourselves in the support are really anti the 'entertainment' ...it being the non hockey part, the playing entertainment is missing....I have been putting my old VHS tapes onto DVD recently and end up watching a clip and can name all the team from watching one face-off.BUT I could not do it now. Could be the point mentioned earlier, that we hold on to the best moments/time in our earlier years of support.Yet, it is true also that you had passion in watching it years ago and the players had it (passion) when playing.How do I know that? Well we went away to support the team and mostly Panthers lost, but we kept going and enjoyed it.Can't say that can be a truth these days.
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Post by spik on Jan 11, 2010 18:49:22 GMT
By the way.If there is a fan liason.It ain't working well as I ain't heard of it for starters.
Plus Sheffields disillusion is different to ours.They are in a different boat I feel.
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Dan
Forum Admin
Boss
Posts: 5,891
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Post by Dan on Jan 11, 2010 18:55:15 GMT
I'm actually shocked that so many feel the same, thought i was on my own. Shocked and disappointed of course, i kinda hoped it was an isolated incident too.
God, i'd love to run the Elite League for a year.
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Post by Alf Garnett on Jan 11, 2010 19:05:04 GMT
God, i'd love to run the Elite League for a year. I'd like to see a totally independant governing body tell the team owners that they are running the show.
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Post by supermac on Jan 11, 2010 19:11:47 GMT
A view from somewhere else for you. I watched the Steelers from the beginning and could not ever see the day when I could just walk away, but 3 years ago I did, having watched an incredibly boring game against Belfast. I began to watch the Scimitars and now split my time between Scimitars and Spartans and have'nt enjoyed my hockey so much for years. I think we all have the same sort of reasons for being disillusioned with the game at the higher level, just placing different levels of importance on them. There is the effect of your kids growing up and drifting away from the game as well as starting a family and having other committments. Regardless of what people thought of the Steelers match night package and the standard of hockey in those early days, it did generate excitement and that buzz you feel when you enter the arena on game night, but that has sadly gone and will probably never return. I won't even go to the Arena on a free ticket this days, as the crowd and the game have no passion and I am sure that does'nt only apply in Sheffield. I watched the Spartans v Lions game yesterday and although your fans thought we were over physical and the result did not go the right way for them, they surely could not deny the entertainment value, effort and skill on display, from lads who have to pay to play!! I'm not suggesting the route I have taken is right for everyone, but it is perhaps worth trying going back to your roots so to speak. I don't think there is an easy answer to getting back lost fans for any club, it is just too hard to get back into the habit.
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Post by spik on Jan 11, 2010 19:22:39 GMT
Good for the Scimitars and Spartans that there are people like 'supermac' who can see the appeal in teams like those.I am one of the persons who can only watch first team hockey regulary whilst it's in the same town.
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doug
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 586
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Post by doug on Jan 11, 2010 19:24:09 GMT
And I'd love to help you Giroux!
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Post by spik on Jan 11, 2010 19:26:57 GMT
I'm actually shocked that so many feel the same, thought i was on my own. Shocked and disappointed of course, i kinda hoped it was an isolated incident too. God, i'd love to run the Elite League for a year. You me and Alf on the same committee. I have always been saying that a 'middle' man could be employed (not as a puppet) by the club to liase.A programme column was my idea as such in that aspect.Explanations to things etc...
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Post by spik on Jan 11, 2010 19:27:59 GMT
Co-opting doug of course.Lol
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Post by pantherman66 on Jan 11, 2010 20:32:23 GMT
Just to tell it as it was for the newbies. Yes the old barn could have fantastic atmosphere for alot of the games, but it could also be very quiet. This was (like the NIC) against the lower sides, or if we fell behind. Some things never change I guess. Having said that if I could have bottled the atmosphere during the Durham/ Streatham/ Sheffield/ Cardiff games, and sold it, I would be very rich by now.
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Post by pantherdman on Jan 11, 2010 21:54:22 GMT
We were banned from taking an umbrella into the NIC? I wasn't going to put it up inside, thats bad luck LOL. WTF, It was the exhibition game against Geneva.
I'd love to see someone set off a flare during a game, or unfoil an offensive banner the size of a parachute.
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Post by kirkbyruss on Jan 11, 2010 22:36:43 GMT
Hi . Im a new poster on here i look on the forum everyday but dont post.As an old watcher of the panthers (i havent been for a couple of years) i would like to input into this topic. I started watching the panthers in 82 and stopped regularly going in 1998.I wouldnt have missed the games for nothing then...My take on it is 1) The old rink was a very intimidating place to go for away teams the noise was unbearable on some nights....Some great nights at the old barn. The NIC doesnt get that atmosphere... 2)Influx of too many run of the mill imports..While i agree top end imports are great for the hockey there is too many who are no better than the brits and are only here for the meal ticket.. 3)The players used to come into the bars after the match and socialize with the fans..That has changed ..And you dont seem to get attached to them like previous. 4)The cost...Its an expensive game to watch now...If i went with the wife and my girl..Couple of drinks 50/50 tickets programme car parking etc there wouldnt be much change out of eighty quid. 5)The local brits ..We had an abundance of local grown boys who wanted to play for the shirt .we all know who they are .We havent anymore .The imports dont care what the panthers are about the history. While i look on here every match night and so want them to do well...And looking at the table a second place team int bad you know... . After a few weeks missing it you find other things to do . But i do miss it.. Sorry if im waffling on a bit i had it all worked out what i was going to put ...But putting it down in a message has been more difficult..Lets go Panthers
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Ian
Matt Myers
Posts: 1,702
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Post by Ian on Jan 11, 2010 22:59:35 GMT
Very interesting thread this. Got me thinking how I actually feel about my team right now. Let me start by saying I can barely remember a time when I did not watch the Panthers - my first game was the Panthers' third of the modern era. I was 7 years old, now I'm 37. So I guess that gives me a slightly different perspective to those of you who made a conscious decision to start watching hockey as adults. Generally, I believe I still have a passion for the Nottingham Panthers. But my passion has definitely been watered down over recent years. Partly I guess due to circumstances - more responsibilities, marriage, business etc. but certainly the lack of connection between fans and team has played a role too. I no longer feel that "all in it together" feeling that we used to have. In fact, it seems very much "us and them" nowadays. There is no doubt that the quality of the product on the ice has deteriorated too and that has also contributed. But walking away is not an option, never has been and I doubt it ever will be. Despite my moaning (and there is plenty) and disillusionment with the way the club is run on and/or off the ice at any given time, I still feel some of the old sense of belonging and ownership and that association with my team is what keeps me involved. Would I still fly home from Germany for a cup final? Would I drive to Ayr six days after passing my test? Would I drive to Slough in monsoon conditions for a second leg when we had won the first leg about 15-0? Probably not. But turn away from the team that has given me so much in terms of enjoyment, emotion, memories and friends over the years? No chance. If for no other reason than the certainty that, knowing my luck, we would win the league the year after I stopped.
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
Posts: 10,995
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Post by Shaggy on Jan 11, 2010 23:15:20 GMT
I wouldn't say that I've become disillusioned... more that my interest has evolved.
This is now my 11th year watching, so I do remember the old rink, if even only for the last year of its existence. And there was a lot of great things about the old barn - although it wasn't perfect, and game nights could be just as quiet then as they are now. Maybe not as often, but still... over time, memories do seem to change or fade, don't they? Or maybe we only choose to remember certain things?
Maybe I'm less passionate about the Panthers? I dunno... I never miss a home game, so that's not it. And I can get quite vocal at times still (was yelling angrily at them in the first period on Saturday, for example!). But them I've also become much more involved with both the Lions and GB. And I'll watch any 'level' of hockey - junior, womens, ENL, EPL, rec, European, NHL (on TV)whatever. Maybe I've become more passionate about the sport as a whole and less about the Panthers? But I don't really feel less passionate about them... just different. Still gutted and/or angry when they lose... still elated and/or happy when they win. But I can still take satisfaction in a 'good' loss (a good performance, just beaten by the better team on the night). Might sound like a contradiciton, but it's not. Doesn't mean I want them to win any less than someone else.
I tink it's pointless to assume that we will always feel the same way about something, even after years of it. Times change, people change, attitudes change.
Tell you one thing that does make a difference... seeing the look on a newbie's face who has really enjoyed a game that oneself has only found moderately entertaining. Perhaps it's us that have lost something? Maybe whatever may be lacking, it's not just down to the team - maybe it's partly down to us as well.
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Milkman™
Les Strongman
Always Delivers
Posts: 5,300
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Post by Milkman™ on Jan 11, 2010 23:20:56 GMT
If for no other reason than the certainty that, knowing my luck, we would win the league the year after I stopped. You could be on to something there Ian. As has been proved when we won the Play Offs, the crowds didnt increase significantly. Perhaps if/when we done win the league the crowds will dwindle, all having waited for the success, but then cutting their losses and calling it a day. I reckon Moran and Black know this, hence the dross they keep employing.
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Mark
Randall Weber
Experience has taught me that when it really matters the only person you can rely on is yourself.
Posts: 4,616
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Post by Mark on Jan 11, 2010 23:29:36 GMT
Tell you one thing that does make a difference... seeing the look on a newbie's face who has really enjoyed a game that oneself has only found moderately entertaining. Perhaps it's us that have lost something? Maybe whatever may be lacking, it's not just down to the team - maybe it's partly down to us as well. As a newbie the lack of understanding as regards the rules helps in my opinion. Ice hockey is one of the few sports you can enjoy without really understanding what's going on. It's when you start to grasp the rules and then realise how poor the refs are that some of that enjoyment wanes, replaced by frustration at all the bad decisions. Ian's got it spot on for me. Agree with his post 100%. I'm disgruntled, but I'll never stop going. Just don't expect me to stop moaning.
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MP
Paul Adey
Hail hurts and rain is cold. Summer in the mountains
Posts: 6,811
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Post by MP on Jan 12, 2010 0:09:13 GMT
It's a journey many of us have made over the years I suspect - from fresh faced enthusiasm to jaundiced veteran I fondly remember the real buzz I got from Panthers games in my first few seasons. That mellowed as I learnt about and understood the game and became more of an ice hockey fan rather than a fan of the Panthers. Like Shaggy, I can happily watch hockey at most levels and enjoy the game itself rather than the partisan involvement of supporting Panthers. When you find out what happens behind the scenes then the way you look at games changes and somehow it's never again quite the spectacle you enjoyed in the early days. When it's British hockey and Panthers, well, I suppose it's not too difficult to become disillusioned by the way things are run..... The social side of match night keeps a lot of people going once they reach this point - I've certainly met a lot of great people through hockey and made some good friends as a result. Circumstances changed for me and as a result I've only been to a handful of games in the past two seasons. I echo Kirbyruss here - I'm surprised how easy it's been to get out of the habit of going to games - I do miss the hockey but not as much as I'd have thought.
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Post by alisonh on Jan 12, 2010 10:22:19 GMT
In some ways, I feel more a Panthers' fan at away games than at home. I like home games - easy to get to with decent facilities - but I feel more like a proper supporter away. You feel like you are closer to the team i.e. you've all travelled there and you'll get the job done together. Its a bit daft when you put it down in words, but in other teams rinks you feel as if you have to give more, shout more, just "go that extra mile" as a supporter.
As shoddy as Whitley Bay is, I liked the fact that all of us who made it there (including the Team) were in it together. Same with Hull, Cardiff, Coventry(where to get to the ladies loo with no hint of a queue you have to not trip over our lots sticks and equiptment in the corridor) etc.
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Post by howeaboutthat on Jan 12, 2010 11:15:12 GMT
If the NIC wont allow horns........ Unless you are Sheffield Steelers fans it seems. I believe certain sections of the fan base themselves are more of a hinderance in attempting to create an atmosphere at the NIC than the arena management.
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Post by courtmeister on Jan 12, 2010 11:22:45 GMT
Am I pretty disillusioned... nah. People get different things out of hockey and go for different reasons, it makes no difference why they go as long as they enjoy themselves and support the team. I doubt not may of us go just out of habit, it costs too damn much. I've only been following the Panthers for a few years so to the old school maybe still a newbie to Nottingham. I followed Hull in the old Superleague days for 4 seasons. I was introduced to the game by relatives up there and I made the 120 mile round trip week in week out, partly for the team, partly due to seeing my family. In those days things were different; supporters would bring drums/trumpets, the chanting was loud, games were more intense, and the atmosphere often was electrifying. I often woke the following morning with no voice. Old school hockey rivalries existed, who wanted to play against the Wasps, or the Panthers for that matter, you knew it was going to by physical and players got hurt playing for their shirt. Players would meet up with you in the bar every week and you could chew the fat. You didn't have to join the social club and make an appointment for a chance to get to know them. If you had a drink with the players in town you weren't called a stalker or puck bunny either. Alas work and family commitments put paid to that and I didn't follow hockey at all for 12/13 years. I also didn't miss it that much, life moves on. Circumstances changed again, 4 years ago my then new partner and I started our lives together and moved to Nottingham, I introduced her to hockey as an evening out (I'm an old romantic at heart ) she was hooked from the first face off. TBH with my Hull background I considered myself probably a neutral and took me several games to be converted. Those old memories will never die but will never be repeated. We go to every home match (ST holder for 3 years) and probably most away games, Panther matches have also introduced us to some really nice people, some of which have become friends and we meet them outside of hockey. We look forward to every match. We upset family members when we don't get to see them cos a games on. Christmas is a nightmare to schedule in! It's the price we pay to watch the Panthers. We make every effort to make a day out of away matches, weekend breaks in Edinburgh and Belfast. I doubt we'd do this if it wasn't for hockey. I get to take my nephew and niece to a couple of matches each season as treats; they are from Worksop so geographically should support the Squeelers but they only follow Nottingham. They love going probably partly because they get chance to spend time with their fav uncle but they know all the players names and follow the results. For us hockey is a good part of our lives... why? It helped find friends in a new city and provided an outlet to spend quality time together, sharing in something we are both passionate about - The Nottingham Panthers. Ask me again in 5 years time if I'm disillusioned, I sincerely hope you'll get the same albeit shorter response.
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Outlaw
Lorne Smith
JUST LIKE JESSE JAMES,.......
Posts: 729
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Post by Outlaw on Jan 12, 2010 11:42:09 GMT
If the NIC wont allow horns........ Unless you are Sheffield Steelers fans it seems. I believe certain sections of the fan base themselves are more of a hinderance in attempting to create an atmosphere at the NIC than the arena management. The horns that the Steelers and the Blaze fans bring are allowed because they are blown,.. The horns are huge,.. but they are NOT air horns. It is airhorns and "musical instruments" that are banned at the NIC. I think we are so used to not using horns etc that we just don't bother. With regard to certain sections of the fan base being a hinderance to creating an atmosphere,... if that means if someone takes a horn and the person sitting below, infront or behind doesn't like it and complains,.. then yes,.. that is true. I have seen Panthers supporters complain about the Belfast mascots drum at Playoffs,.. and going further back,. about Ayr fans and their Bodhrans. Both complaints resulted in the items being removed. At away games, I have taken a horn,.. and been given daggers for blowing it,.... perhaps we are just not a "Horny" band of fans,...
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Post by kirkbyruss on Jan 12, 2010 11:44:26 GMT
Great post courtmeister and i agree with you totally..I have made some great friends going to the hockey (even though i was in the bar most last periods under block 2). I do miss the us v them attitude we had in the old barn where we seem to just be supporters in the new rink now. Its the camaraderie (is that how its spelt??) that i miss.
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lee
David Clarke
Posts: 3,712
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Post by lee on Jan 12, 2010 12:12:46 GMT
We were banned from taking an umbrella into the NIC? I wasn't going to put it up inside, thats bad luck LOL. WTF, It was the exhibition game against Geneva. . just so you know, thats a health and safety thing. the umbrella would be left on the floor and so could cause a trip hazard..... i asked the question when they took my wifes off her.
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Milkman™
Les Strongman
Always Delivers
Posts: 5,300
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Post by Milkman™ on Jan 12, 2010 12:44:29 GMT
We were banned from taking an umbrella into the NIC? I wasn't going to put it up inside, thats bad luck LOL. WTF, It was the exhibition game against Geneva. . just so you know, thats a health and safety thing. the umbrella would be left on the floor and so could cause a trip hazard..... i asked the question when they took my wifes off her. How do they go on at the proms?
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