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Post by paek on Oct 26, 2006 7:42:55 GMT
"low level euros?" Says a lot for Panthers "high level Canadians" then doesn't it? Indeed, sorry the post sounded harsh il chance it but your dead right No need to aplogise Rich
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blackandgold
Pat Casey
In 1985-86 Jim Keyes Gave 110% Every Shift
Posts: 275
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Post by blackandgold on Oct 26, 2006 9:51:19 GMT
runnermudbean loves geoff!! What I was trying to imply is "If we don’t replace a couple of forwards who are under performing a.s.a.p., I feel IMHO we will win jack this season" I admire your constant optimism despite how the Panthers perform season in season out. But in IMHO it's time to PANIC, or would you prefer lets see how the players are after Saturday or next week or next month or "Oh there goes yet another season with nothing in the trophy cabinet" always next year though eh.
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Post by runnerbean on Oct 26, 2006 10:57:11 GMT
runnermudbean loves geoff!! What I was trying to imply is "If we don’t replace a couple of forwards who are under performing a.s.a.p., I feel IMHO we will win jack this season" Surely it can't be time to start replacing players though just because we've lost 3 games in a row! technically 6 but 3 don't really count... I mean they're the same players who were winning games at the start of the season! Im not all that good when it comes to the different lines and stuff like that but from what people have been saying that if the lines have been changed then why not change them back! It's obviously not working the way it is But we have to go into Saturdays game with a positive attitude, players and fans! Its no good thinking "oh we're gonna get thrashed now after how we've been playing" because then we will! And Im sure if the fans are up for it then it'll definately spur the team on! I mean at least we're still 2nd in the league! Hopefully after this weekend the team will have bucked their ideas up and all will be well in Pantherland ;D
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Robbie Nud
David Clarke
I really do look like this.
Posts: 3,101
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Post by Robbie Nud on Oct 26, 2006 11:54:27 GMT
Maybe ME could tie a bungy rope to Corey that lets him get as far as just over the offensive blue line so he can take the shot but he cant get behind their net and also it will help him get back to defend quicker.
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blackandgold
Pat Casey
In 1985-86 Jim Keyes Gave 110% Every Shift
Posts: 275
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Post by blackandgold on Oct 26, 2006 12:09:48 GMT
Regarding changing players, sometimes hard desions have to be made and swiftly. If Mike Ellis is serious about Panthers hopes of challenging for the League Title or any Silverware for that matter this season, he has to act now. Ok lets put the lines back to how they were, lets see if they can spark again, but lets not forget only a couple of players have been contributing goals and points on a regular basis, enough to challenge for the league or cups? What happens if we loose Clarke or McAslan to injury? The Panthers management appeared to make it clear before the season started that they mean business this year, with the pre-season friendly abroad, the CC and visits watching opponents prior to the tournament. IMHO if the Panthers are to challenge this year we need to act now, that’s my opinion. If we loose David or Sean on long term injury whose stepping up? Prior to the CC Panthers were starting to falter, look at the results in Scotland, IMHO the only two solid games which we looked anything like contenders are the Cardiff & Belfast games, more of that then the PANIC signs can come down.
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twix
Lorne Smith
Posts: 754
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Post by twix on Oct 26, 2006 12:15:31 GMT
Maybe ME could tie a bungy rope to Corey that lets him get as far as just over the offensive blue line so he can take the shot but he cant get behind their net and also it will help him get back to defend quicker. Several people have mentioned Corey for that since last night but it was Jan Krajicek who was responsible for the Stingrays 3rd goal when he did exactly what people call Neilson for. Even as Jan moved up towards our net I called out 'Where are you going?'. Sure enough and totally predictably we (no idea who actually as I was more concerned with the fact that our D had just disappeared) gave away the puck on the second pass and Jan had lost the forward he should have been marking without a hope of getting back there. Not like him I know but I'm bemused as to why everyone's suddenly calling Neilson for wanting to be a forward when he's not exactly the only D we have who does that. Meyers also always seems to me as a wannabe forward and I'm totally bemused as to how he's been given the last two MOM awards given that he's meant to be a D man but isn't doing what a D man should do. Then again I admit I maybe prejudiced as I was so totally unimpressed with him in Amiens that I think he's have to do something really special as a D man to convince me otherwise. On the other hand I do concede that Neilson has some other issues with his game at the moment. He appears to have a hole in his stick as it keeps flying past where he's stood on the blue line!
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Post by Fraggle on Oct 26, 2006 12:53:49 GMT
The scariest thing about all this? We're slowly starting to resemble every other Panthers side... It's not just me that is getting Dej Vu then? Good start to the season, then once European Comp is over (and the "big" players aren't in that particular shop window any more) things start to slide. Let's hope Ellie can sort em out before it turns into another nothign season like the last one - and the one before that, and the one before that....
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Post by paek on Oct 26, 2006 12:59:03 GMT
My hockey sides have lost both 6 and 5 games in a row respectively. I just attract success Keep thinking positive about Forest though
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Helen B
Terry Kurtenbach
you know how much I love you guys
Posts: 2,841
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Post by Helen B on Oct 26, 2006 13:12:04 GMT
Once again
It's only the Steelers this weekend ;D
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Doughnut
Forum Admin
mmmmmm ... Doughnuts
Posts: 5,072
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Post by Doughnut on Oct 26, 2006 13:17:49 GMT
Once again [glow=red,2,300] DON'T PANIC![/glow] Indeed. As long as everyone keeps hold of their towel everything will work out in the end.
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Helen B
Terry Kurtenbach
you know how much I love you guys
Posts: 2,841
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Post by Helen B on Oct 26, 2006 13:18:39 GMT
Yay someone who gets it!
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Post by Heanor Lair on Oct 26, 2006 14:13:02 GMT
Not panicking, the seasion is still young
HL
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Post by quaalude on Oct 26, 2006 16:10:43 GMT
Not panicking, not especially hopeful either.
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Rich
Paul Adey
Go hard or go home
Posts: 6,691
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Post by Rich on Oct 26, 2006 17:00:36 GMT
Maybe ME could tie a bungy rope to Corey that lets him get as far as just over the offensive blue line so he can take the shot but he cant get behind their net and also it will help him get back to defend quicker. Several people have mentioned Corey for that since last night but it was Jan Krajicek who was responsible for the Stingrays 3rd goal when he did exactly what people call Neilson for. Even as Jan moved up towards our net I called out 'Where are you going?'. Sure enough and totally predictably we (no idea who actually as I was more concerned with the fact that our D had just disappeared) gave away the puck on the second pass and Jan had lost the forward he should have been marking without a hope of getting back there. Not like him I know but I'm bemused as to why everyone's suddenly calling Neilson for wanting to be a forward when he's not exactly the only D we have who does that. Meyers also always seems to me as a wannabe forward and I'm totally bemused as to how he's been given the last two MOM awards given that he's meant to be a D man but isn't doing what a D man should do. Then again I admit I maybe prejudiced as I was so totally unimpressed with him in Amiens that I think he's have to do something really special as a D man to convince me otherwise. On the other hand I do concede that Neilson has some other issues with his game at the moment. He appears to have a hole in his stick as it keeps flying past where he's stood on the blue line! Because JK did it once, Neilson does it every shift. Luckily Rees and Meyers are playing really well imo because we are carrying Neilson, his tape to tape pass % will be less than 10% and thats being generous. Compare that to someone like Ricci or even Dion who would be around 90% at least and theres the problem. The issue isnt so much him going forward (you can make plays and work systems around your D men carrying the puck) its his passing that frustrates me
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Oct 26, 2006 20:49:11 GMT
Still not panicking... Frustrated? - very much so. Concerned? - absolutely! Angry? - actually, yes a bit... But I'm not panicking. Panic would be an over-reaction IMHO. There needs to be a reaction - us fans making our feelings known, and Mike Ellis by getting the team to back what it was for the first few weeks of the season. But there's always the tendency - which we keep seeing online - of over-reacting... the overdone wailing and gnashing of teeth, with people seeming to compete to see who can beat their breast more spectacularly and turn on the team more viciously, as if they are afraid to be seen not to be showing their passion enough (which does happen, I think). Let's not over-react. Saturday was poor, from start to finish. Sunday started off poor but got better (not enough, but noticeably better). Wednesday started off well for the first 10 minutes or so, then it all fell to pieces. This is bad. This is wrong. And this needs to be corrected. But let's not over-react. We are still near the top of the league, and there is still the vast majority of the season left to go. We still have the players who showed the skill, passion, aggression and commitment to get us to an early start at the top of the league. We still have the coach who impressed us all at the start of the season. We still have the same tools... they just aren't being used quite right just now... but they had been before and that means they can be again. We had a good team to start with, and they are still exactly the same team (except for the addition of James Ferrara, and I don't think he's responsible for the current woes, do you?) - so therefore we still have a good team. Even good teams - hell, even GREAT teams - have slumps, off-days, losing streaks and hiccups. Doesn't mean they don't remain good teams. Mike Ellis and the players know that things are going wrong... that much is obvious. And we have every right to expect - demand from them - that they pull their collective socks up and get things back on track. But let's temper those demands with a bit of reason and restraint? Come on you Panthers. (Now where did I leave that recipe for the Pan-Galactic Gargle Blaster? ;D)
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matt44
David Clarke
Posts: 3,085
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Post by matt44 on Oct 26, 2006 21:11:01 GMT
Why are people complaining about who was at fault for the 3rd goal?
What does it matter? We were 2-0 down with time running out and our guys had to push forward to try for a goal.
You may aswell lose 3-0 than 2-0
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Post by Lucy on Oct 26, 2006 22:40:31 GMT
We don't want to fill that arena with negative vibes before the game even gets underway OK so the last few games have been dire but let's put that behind us and BELIEVE we can do it. I'm sure the guys know how much this game means to the fans, but we need to get behind them from the start. C'mon - positive thinking
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blackandgold
Pat Casey
In 1985-86 Jim Keyes Gave 110% Every Shift
Posts: 275
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Post by blackandgold on Oct 27, 2006 9:18:26 GMT
Doughnut I have edited my thread, I thought it made more sense to my argument for player change to add my previous thread Free speech great isn’t it; people have different opinions which make for, at times constructive arguments. We have the "Something must be done now, if we are serious about winning anything this season" camp (I’m in this one) Then you have the "stop being so negative, give them a chance, things will turn around soon, think positive" camp, who it seems berate the former for having an opinion on how the team performance needs to change, interesting. When this thread was started I agreed with the majority of what was said by Shaggy, prior to the totally unacceptable performances from the Panthers since. Now it is time to PANIC or to phrase it better changes in the team need to be made now. We have two big games against the Steelers next week, if we loose them am I right in thinking we are then out of the cup? Too late to bring in players to keep us in the cup then. If the Panthers management are deadly serious and ambitious to win SOMETHING this year then a move for new players needs to be addressed now not when the horse has bolted. PS I know we have two big games this weekend, go on Panthers make me eat my words ;D
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Oct 27, 2006 11:44:09 GMT
Why the obsession with bringing in new players? We have already seen that the players we have CAN delivery the goods - they just haven't been doing so recently. So it's not a lack of ability.
The suggestion is to cut one or more current players and bring in new ones. Well, I see two big problems with that to start with:-
1). There is no guarantee that the new players would be any better. Look at last year... Shaun Sutter. Oops.
2). We'd then have another 'bedding in' period whilst the new players and the existing ones get used to each other. OK - the team cohesion hasn't been too good in the past week or so - but that could change this weekend. Start messing around with the roster and we're likely to be stuck with a lack of team cohesion for at least another week or two.
We have the tools - we just need them to be used right. Swapping for new tools is IMHO a panic reaction - and over-reaction.
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Post by paek on Oct 27, 2006 11:46:17 GMT
Why the obsession with bringing in new players? We have already seen that the players we have CAN delivery the goods - they just haven't been doing so recently. So it's not a lack of ability. The suggestion is to cut one or more current players and bring in new ones. Well, I see two big problems with that to start with:- 1). There is no guarantee that the new players would be any better. Look at last year... Shaun Sutter. Oops. 2). We'd then have another 'bedding in' period whilst the new players and the existing ones get used to each other. OK - the team cohesion hasn't been too good in the past week or so - but that could change this weekend. Start messing around with the roster and we're likely to be stuck with a lack of team cohesion for at least another week or two. We have the tools - we just need them to be used right. Swapping for new tools is IMHO a panic reaction - and over-reaction. Top post and when Panthers rectify their current woes (as I expect them to do this weekend) I'm the sure the panic currently engulfing this forum will subside.
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Post by texpef on Oct 27, 2006 12:00:53 GMT
Shaggy et al, we will all see wont we, i as already said, I truly hope that panthers get it right this weekend and go on from strength to strength. HOWEVER lets say that our present slump does continue (and in 48 hrs we will know one way or the other) would you then agree that something needs to be changed and a player movement may well be an impetus that gets the team motivated again or would you bury your head firmly in the sand and hope it all gets better before it is too late?
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Oct 27, 2006 12:14:06 GMT
Shaggy et al, we will all see wont we, i as already said, I truly hope that panthers get it right this weekend and go on from strength to strength. HOWEVER lets say that our present slump does continue (and in 48 hrs we will know one way or the other) would you then agree that something needs to be changed and a player movement may well be an impetus that gets the team motivated again or would you bury your head firmly in the sand and hope it all gets better before it is too late? I've already been saying that changes need to be made - just not roster changes. Change the lines back to what they were before Rouen... seeing as none of us actually KNOW why things have gone wrong, all this 'CC hangover' stuff is just pure guesswork... but it's my guess that the main problem has been the changes in the lines. (Also - if, as we did on Wednesday, there appears to be a lack of 'zip'' in the team... why not go back to using James Neil more? He's got enough get-up-and-go for an entire line, and that kind of thing can be infectious). So - no burying my head in the sand... which is a bit of an extreme comment, yes?
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Post by texpef on Oct 27, 2006 12:30:59 GMT
not really that extreme given the glowing optimism here in the face of actual reality, may not be your actual head been buried but you do seem to be a mouthpiece for all those unwavering optimists. Plus i suspect a linechange "back" may be on the cards but another lacklustre performance and we will be behind the 8 ball and chasing the league rather than remain hot on belfasts heels. Imho only a personnel change if we suffer another week of failure will be enough to try to halt the slump, however this may all be academic as come monday we could all be walking into work with a skip in our steps...
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Post by paek on Oct 27, 2006 12:32:57 GMT
Shaggy et al, we will all see wont we, i as already said, I truly hope that panthers get it right this weekend and go on from strength to strength. HOWEVER lets say that our present slump does continue (and in 48 hrs we will know one way or the other) would you then agree that something needs to be changed and a player movement may well be an impetus that gets the team motivated again or would you bury your head firmly in the sand and hope it all gets better before it is too late? Wishy washy & at best, suggestive of what MIGHT occur this weekend Texpef. Stating " this might happen...and if it does should this happen" leads to only to a debate about " what ifs & buts." State what you believe will occur this weekend, and then we can go on from there.
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Oct 27, 2006 12:39:33 GMT
not really that extreme given the glowing optimism here in the face of actual reality, may not be your actual head been buried but you do seem to be a mouthpiece for all those unwavering optimists. "glowing optimism"? "unwavering optimists"? Hardly. I'm trying to say this without causing offence, Texpef - but you're well known for being almost unwaveringly pessimistic... it's not just me, I've heard you described by many as being The Little Black Storm Cloud (TM). I get the feeling that you view anyone who is somewhat more optimistic than yourself (ie: what most might call 'the middle ground') as being extreme optimists, ust based on the sheer distance from your position. Compared to you, maybe I (and others) seem to be filled with "glowing optimism"... but the truth is far less extreme than that. A healthy dose of pessimism/skepticism is surely just as valuable as a healthy dose of optimisim. I just think you take it too far...
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