Edinburgh 23/09 game pics

[MP]

petew said:

The reason I ask is that I use a player photo for the profile pages on my website. Over the years I have asked several "official" photographers, Mike Smith, Chris Fielding and Dave Page all spring to mind. All have kindly agreed for me to use them providing I include a link to their website, which I have been more than happy to do. I have photos from the 50's who I have no idea who the photographer was and many over the years and certainly from earlier decades are of questionable quality. But the quality of individual images isn't the point. I wanted to put our team's history on the internet and there's no financial interest on my part whatsoever.

I can't see any problem with your site Pete.

As you say, you've sought permission to use the photos wherever you can. Those pictures who's source you don't know shouldn't cause any problems - acknowledgment or removal is always an option if anyone identifies them self as the photographer and raises the matter.

The photos themselves only serve to illustrate your website and are not suitable for printing off of for commercial gain. Nor are you seeking to make any money out of the site.

Hard to believe anyone would take exception to the photos on your site - most people would agree that keeping Panthers history alive and available like that is a worthy cause indeed. Not much chance that the Club would undertake such a project - you'd hope they'd be grateful that you have.

[Matt]

Do other clubs not have a problem with displaying photos on fan sites?

And are the league turning a blind eye to these?

www.thecapitalscorner.co.uk/matchnightphotos.htm

www.fortressodyssey.co.uk/matchnightphotos.htm

Only this is stated on Rob and Martin`s site....

We regret to announce that all images of players and EIHL venues have been removed from our site until further notice. This is due to an enforcement of image rights law by the Elite Ice Hockey League and the GMB Nottingham Panthers.

[martinski83]

tat2matt said:

Do other clubs not have a problem with displaying photos on fan sites?

And are the league turning a blind eye to these?

www.thecapitalscorner.co.uk/matchnightphotos.htm

www.fortressodyssey.co.uk/matchnightphotos.htm

Only this is stated on Rob and Martin`s site....

We regret to announce that all images of players and EIHL venues have been removed from our site until further notice. This is due to an enforcement of image rights law by the Elite Ice Hockey League and the GMB Nottingham Panthers.

It's not the league you need to worry about mate. It's fair to say that in light of recent events we are covering our backs. What you have quoted from PanthersOnline there is basically the situation as we understand it, and that was the nicest way we could word it.

As for the site itself, we have a few cunning plans content wise and our statistics section is still proving popular, as is the Wildcats section. We're also hoping to introduce a weekly EIHL roundup column from this week to put all the weekends happenings in one convenient place and more top interviews will be posted soon.

Martin

[MP]

tat2matt said:

Do other clubs not have a problem with displaying photos on fan sites?

And are the league turning a blind eye to these?

All clubs and the League have image rights and presumably they will guard against any misuse.

However, I'm not aware of any other club objecting to fan photos or issuing statements in the manner Panthers did and the League don't seem worried about fans photo sites.

Looks like it's a local difficulty.

[Matt]

martinski83 said:

tat2matt said:

Do other clubs not have a problem with displaying photos on fan sites?

And are the league turning a blind eye to these?

www.thecapitalscorner.co.uk/matchnightphotos.htm

www.fortressodyssey.co.uk/matchnightphotos.htm

Only this is stated on Rob and Martin`s site....

We regret to announce that all images of players and EIHL venues have been removed from our site until further notice. This is due to an enforcement of image rights law by the Elite Ice Hockey League and the GMB Nottingham Panthers.

It's not the league you need to worry about mate. It's fair to say that in light of recent events we are covering our backs. What you have quoted from PanthersOnline there is basically the situation as we understand it, and that was the nicest way we could word it.

As for the site itself, we have a few cunning plans content wise and our statistics section is still proving popular, as is the Wildcats section. We're also hoping to introduce a weekly EIHL roundup column from this week to put all the weekends happenings in one convenient place and more top interviews will be posted soon.

Martin

Nice one Martin
I was hoping that the site wouldn`t fold.
Looking forward to seeing the new stuff,keep up the good work!!!

[martinski83]

tat2matt said:

martinski83 said:

It's not the league you need to worry about mate. It's fair to say that in light of recent events we are covering our backs. What you have quoted from PanthersOnline there is basically the situation as we understand it, and that was the nicest way we could word it.

As for the site itself, we have a few cunning plans content wise and our statistics section is still proving popular, as is the Wildcats section. We're also hoping to introduce a weekly EIHL roundup column from this week to put all the weekends happenings in one convenient place and more top interviews will be posted soon.

Martin

Nice one Martin
I was hoping that the site wouldn`t fold.
Looking forward to seeing the new stuff,keep up the good work!!!

Hmm can't help feeling it's time to start a 'We'll never die chant'

Thanks for your support. We won't disappoint you

Martin

[Rob #12]

Well the final chapter to this saga has been written.

The Panthers have put their foot down as to the use of pictures on Panthers Online. They is the blaming the league, the league are saying they are fine with it if the Panthers are fine with it. But has been said is that no unofficial sites will be granted the right to publish action shots taken at the NIC of Panthers players.

I hope they are happy because he has effectively ended the peace between the two sides and has set a precidence. Any other unofficial fan site will need written permission from the club, and if they don't, who knows what will happen.

All I know is that it ain't worth the grief of being sued by the Panthers, just so I can publish some shots for other Panthers fans, which it seems a number of people don't think are any good anyway. sorry to the peeps who actually enjoyed looking at them.

Sorry Mick, looks like we have lost this one. Post any action shots at your peril, I don't think its worth it though. It's a sad day indeed.

Rob

[Milkman™]

aspertarion said:

Well the final chapter to this saga has been written.

Gary Moran has put his foot down as to the use of pictures on Panthers Online. He is the blaming the league, the league are saying they are fine with it if the Panthers are fine with it. But he has said that no unofficial sites will be granted the right to publish action shots taken at the NIC of Panthers players.

I hope he is happy because he has effectively ended the peace between the two sides and has set a precidence. Any other unofficial fan site will need written permission from the club, and if they don't, who knows what will happen.

All I know is that it ain't worth the grief of being sued by the Panthers, just so I can publish some shots for other Panthers fans, which it seems a number of people don't think are any good anyway. sorry to the peeps who actually enjoyed looking at them.

Sorry Mick, looks like we have lost this one. Post any action shots at your peril, I don't think its worth it though. It's a sad day indeed.

Rob

Interesting he uses the phrase action shots, i watched the Panthers in Hull on Sunday and in the 3rd period there was very little Panthers action.

Greed is fuelling this debate, nothing more nothing less

[Rob #12]

You mean on my part?

[panthermick]

Thanks Rob, i emailed panthers and got back this reply.

Quote

Thank you for asking but the club and the league do not give permission for photographs/images/brandings to appear on ANY unofficial sites.

Your own pictures have regularly appeared on other unofficial sites.

It is not solely to do with photo sales. This is a copyright issue and there are other areas being looked at beyond club level. We wouldn't want any of our fans to get caught up in these matters should they come to pass.

Thank you for your support.

[Milkman™]

aspertarion said:

You mean on my part?

deffo not, what do you make from it

[Rob #12]

therapy said:

aspertarion said:

You mean on my part?

deffo not, what do you make from it

Nothing at all apart from give people something to look at until Dave Page's better quality pics show up in the next few days. The Panthers (one person in particular) has stamped all over it rather than give his blessing.

I understand will abide by the decision, but I don't agree with it. then again I don't own the rights to the players so who am I to dis-agree.

Mick, are you not bothering with your photos section anymore either?

Rob

[Milkman™]

aspertarion said:

therapy said:

deffo not, what do you make from it

Nothing at all apart from give people something to look at until Dave Page's better quality pics show up in the next few days. The Panthers (one person in particular) has stamped all over it rather than give his blessing.

I understand will abide by the decision, but I don't agree with it. then again I don't own the rights to the players so who am I to dis-agree.

Mick, are you not bothering with your photos section anymore either?

Rob

There is a very easy common sense way for this to become a win win situation

[ted]

As i remember something similar was discussed last season and it wasnt only the players images but the sponsors logos on the boards etc.

Might be completely different this time of course... But im sure it was something to do with sponsors at Coventry.

Micks comment reminded me

[Rob #12]

therapy said:

aspertarion said:

Nothing at all apart from give people something to look at until Dave Page's better quality pics show up in the next few days. The Panthers (one person in particular) has stamped all over it rather than give his blessing.

I understand will abide by the decision, but I don't agree with it. then again I don't own the rights to the players so who am I to dis-agree.

Mick, are you not bothering with your photos section anymore either?

Rob

There is a very easy common sense way for this to become a win win situation

What's that?

[panthermick]

I will see if I can get some photo's from some of the official photographers & put them up & add a link to thier site were fans can perchase them as I did to dave page when i put my photo's up.

I suppose thats all i can do until someone who knows the law can tell me I am allowed to show my own snaps on my own website.

[loveday]

It is a sad day.

You have to see the funny side. Banning them will not increase sales of the official photos

The pictures will still be taken, but instead of showing them for all to see and enjoy, those who take them will probally end up emailng copies to lots more individuals.

No one gains, but the Elite, Panthers and the other clubs all lose FREE advertising.

[Milkman™]

panthermick said:

I suppose thats all i can do until someone who knows the law can tell me I am allowed to show my own snaps on my own website.

Simple answer Mick - NO

The Panthers/Logos/Kit/Sponsors are all copyrighted material and without the permission of the copyright holder you can not use the said material.

Mr Moran is going to have to rethink his 60th Anniversary banner as most of the images on their are mine, Im still waiting for payment

[charlish2099]

you serious, that banner is awesome! hope he just pays you

[MP]

therapy said:

Mr Moran is going to have to rethink his 60th Anniversary banner as most of the images on their are mine, Im still waiting for payment

That thought had crossed my mind


A sad day indeed - another publicity "triumph" for Panthers - just when things seemed to being running rather better on and off the ice this season.

Hence forth they should be known as the Nottingham Phantoms - as you can't see them outside an ice rink.


Think I'll decline the invitation to purchase the Match Night magazine in future as a small protest - just think of all those sponsors logos I'll miss out on seeing.

[panthermick]

How do you become an official site, obviously Ill never be a Hockey team, so how can you become 1.

With 200,000 + hits since April 2002 i think thats a lot of people visiiting a so called unofficial site.

I suppose its because the official team sites have finally got thier acts together we are now no longer a feature of the world of EIHL hockey.

Its sad because the amount of emails I have recieved over the years from people who have never been to hockey asking me what it costs to attend a game, can you take food & drink to your seat ect. Players perents & friends thanking me for showing photo's of thier sons & friends playing for Panthers.

Ex players thanking me for the work i do so they can keep an eye on the sport in this country without tralling the net.

It saddens me so much.

After all I don't get paid for what we do, I just do it for the love of the game I have watched & played since 1980 when was I was just sweet 16.

[Milkman™]

I was chatting this morning with an old mate who reminded me of the hats he used to sell in the Cricks (the 49 and 13 ones with number and signature, you may remember), well these hats had the full blessing of the players involved however GM didnt see it that way, he reckoned he had the copyright on the numbers and the players signatures.

Yet another disillusioned fan, and this guy followed the Panthers home and away every game, when not many of us did.

Good luck in Belfast and with the new business AG see you in February mate.

[Doughnut]

therapy said:

I was chatting this morning with an old mate who reminded me of the hats he used to sell in the Cricks (the 49 and 13 ones with number and signature, you may remember), well these hats had the full blessing of the players involved however GM didnt see it that way, he reckoned he had the copyright on the numbers and the players signatures.

Yet another disillusioned fan, and this guy followed the Panthers home and away every game, when not many of us did.

Good luck in Belfast and with the new business AG see you in February mate.

Interesting. Maybe the signatures depending on the players' contracts. I'm pretty sure you can't copyright a number though!

...

** Doughnut goes off to see if he can copyright "1" **

[Milkman™]

I heard he even laid claim to the maple leaf on the Canadan flag

[Higgy]

What a joke this whole situation is, why are the panthers organistaion such flippin killjoys!, the same goes with the drum issue but meh