Milkman™
Les Strongman
Always Delivers
Posts: 5,300
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Post by Milkman™ on Sept 28, 2006 12:56:15 GMT
"Dave
Im not slagging anyone here but those are snapshots
Sorry to the photographer, but they would not be published"I never really post on here in this type of thread but here goes: a) The pics from Edinburgh arent mine, Im assuming the above remark relates to those shots only, a little clarity would be nice as Im assuming Im not the Dave mentioned! b) There is nothing wrong with the quality of my pics, they are taken with the best sports lenses and the best camera bodies in the market today. They are always sharp with a proper white balance. They are proper pics not "snapshots" IMHO. c) I am a full time professional photographer, unfortunately there isnt enough money in hockey alone to make a living, so I turn my hand to other things photographically, not sure this makes me a poor photographer or someone that doesnt deliver pictures on time for media deadlines. What it does do is mean I continue to have a good lifestyle and provide for a family. D) I am respectful of the EIHL branding and their teams etc. Thats why seldom will you see coverage of any road games on my site cept player portrait style pics of Panthers players only. By the same token I do not feature portrait style pics of visiting players when photographed here in Nottingham. I hope that makes sense! Therapy...I never really got to know you when you were at Panthers, and I always admire the speed and efficency you guys deliver a end product using the latest technology. I know we shared a couple of emails but if you want to IM me privately or mail me always like to hear from a fellow tog! Dave (Page) Mister the reply you refer to was aimd at Dave Wright (Shaggy), if you follow the link he supplied for the pictures in Scotland you will get my drift. I have nothing but the utmost respect for what you do and your work. Will IM you off thread Chris
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Dave
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 456
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Post by Dave on Sept 28, 2006 12:59:12 GMT
Thanks mate...I didnt even know Shaggy had a name....hahaha ;D
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Rich
Paul Adey
Go hard or go home
Posts: 6,691
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Post by Rich on Sept 28, 2006 13:00:12 GMT
Haha he was Christened Shaggy but I think Dave is a nickname for him Whilst iv got your attention pagey wheres my photos fella from the rink rush game!?!
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Dave
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 456
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Post by Dave on Sept 28, 2006 13:13:12 GMT
I beieve in a envelope awaiting posting mate
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Post by jaycourtney on Sept 28, 2006 14:04:30 GMT
should this be locked now? people are just asking questions, without getting any answer's of the people who make these rules.
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Rich
Paul Adey
Go hard or go home
Posts: 6,691
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Post by Rich on Sept 28, 2006 14:34:18 GMT
I beieve in a envelope awaiting posting mate Good enough for me buddy, hurry up and post them mate I want to look at myself before I go to bed at night haha
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Higgy
Les Strongman
Posts: 5,293
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Post by Higgy on Sept 28, 2006 15:04:23 GMT
This whole photo thing about rights and what not has really annoyed me, its taking the fun out of everything, with all due respect to dave who takes fantastic pictures, i like the other photos on other sites as they dont have those davepage lines going through them. Now that the photos have been taken off the panthers online website i probably wont go on that site much anymore as the game photos were one of the only things i went on for, its a shame when it comes to things like that
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Milkman™
Les Strongman
Always Delivers
Posts: 5,300
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Post by Milkman™ on Sept 28, 2006 15:52:09 GMT
i like the other photos on other sites as they dont have those davepage lines going through them. Now that the photos have been taken off the panthers online website i probably wont go on that site much anymore as the game photos were one of the only things i went on for, its a shame when it comes to things like that If people go on sites and steal the photos then unfortunatley steps have to be taken, and once a photo is downloaded without the permission of the copyright holder it is theft. Theft is theft be it walking out of a shop with out paying for goods, or what in effect is using someone elses 'talent' without permission. I think the panthers have messed this up big time by using the phrase 'Fans are welcome to take pictures', then in the next breath say they cant upload them anywhere, this is absolute craziness. All tickets for the Arena say that photography is prohibited, so why do people persist in breaking the rules?
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Higgy
Les Strongman
Posts: 5,293
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Post by Higgy on Sept 28, 2006 17:36:24 GMT
The bit where is says no cameras are allowed makes no sense, as people take them in anyway! But nothing is done, they need to clear this up or its going to make the NIC look even more of a joke than it already is
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Milkman™
Les Strongman
Always Delivers
Posts: 5,300
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Post by Milkman™ on Sept 28, 2006 18:10:37 GMT
The bit where is says no cameras are allowed makes no sense, as people take them in anyway! But nothing is done, they need to clear this up or its going to make the NIC look even more of a joke than it already is However those are the rules, like it or not and have been since the LPS days. FYI all sporting events are exactly the same. Why do people persist in breaking this rule I have no idea, but you agree to these rules when you buy a ticket. I guess eveyone thinks they are a pro photographer nowadays, its the same at every wedding you go to.
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Big T
Lorne Smith
At my signal unleash hell!!!
Posts: 794
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Post by Big T on Sept 28, 2006 19:41:23 GMT
I thinks it all pathetic personally! there are better things to worry about than some photo put on the internet!!
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Silas
Jade Galbraith
...and the world is mine, all mine!
Posts: 158
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Post by Silas on Sept 28, 2006 20:01:59 GMT
I for one was looking forward to seeing Edinburgh photos I will now never see. Somebody somewhere (Panthers/Elite League) needs to pull thier head from up thier ass quickly!
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Higgy
Les Strongman
Posts: 5,293
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Post by Higgy on Sept 28, 2006 20:07:51 GMT
Rules are there to be broken
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Post by Rob #12 on Sept 28, 2006 20:11:46 GMT
All tickets for the Arena say that photography is prohibited, so why do people persist in breaking the rules? I thought they said said no FLASH photography. Not nrought one in a while so can't remember. Looking at my ST, only mentions no recording equipment, which a camera is not. Camaras wouldn't be banned, esp as the Panthers welcome people to take photos. I have a reply from the WIHL basically saying the issue is with the Panthers not them. If the Panthers refuse permission, the league will back them up. If they say its fine, then the league are cool with it to. Not the message I got from the Panthers. Rob
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Post by keefe a.k.a Donk on Sept 28, 2006 20:18:41 GMT
So, during our trip to belfast for the first game of the season, we took a load of pics. Most of the good pics are of us and the players in a bar doing the moose so on and so forth. This is the players personal time, and not in the ice hockey arena as such. Dues this still constitute as panthers property and should i now remove them from photobucket? or is this ok? Surely people posting pics of themselves with the players in a social term cant be seen as theft of the clubs identity?
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
Posts: 10,995
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Post by Shaggy on Sept 28, 2006 21:04:46 GMT
It strikes me that this ban on 'publicising' photos is aimed at somehow safeguarding whatever income that the league/clusb may make from official photos, and somehow 'protecting' their image.
Anyone with half a grain of sense would realise that this kind of draconian enforcement is likely to damage their image, and possibly their income as well, far more than any losses they might otherwise suffer.
Whoever is responsible for this one - get real, will you? You're going to get a lot more out of the fans if you let them express their enthusiasm than if you stifle it like this.
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MP
Paul Adey
Hail hurts and rain is cold. Summer in the mountains
Posts: 6,811
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Post by MP on Sept 29, 2006 0:09:22 GMT
I have a reply from the WIHL basically saying the issue is with the Panthers not them. If the Panthers refuse permission, the league will back them up. If they say its fine, then the league are cool with it to. Not the message I got from the Panthers. Curious. If Panthers or the League were actually generating revenue by using their image rights (as in the Premiership etc) then I could understand them guarding the image rights. But that doesn't seem to happen as far as we're concerned. Very odd that the fans are urged to bring along family and friends to increase attendances, but apparently the product is so good that we can't show them any photos of a game to whet their appetite... Seems a bit of a rethink is in order here. There is a school of thought that says any publicity is good publicity but I remain to be convinced - appearing to be a killjoy doesn't seem to be good for business in the long term.
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Post by Rob #12 on Sept 29, 2006 6:24:21 GMT
It strikes me that this ban on 'publicising' photos is aimed at somehow safeguarding whatever income that the league/clusb may make from official photos, and somehow 'protecting' their image. Anyone with half a grain of sense would realise that this kind of draconian enforcement is likely to damage their image, and possibly their income as well, far more than any losses they might otherwise suffer. Whoever is responsible for this one - get real, will you? You're going to get a lot more out of the fans if you let them express their enthusiasm than if you stifle it like this. It's exactly what I was thinking mate. I am not one to cast aspersions, but from the info I have given, most will be able to work out what has happened here. I am not a happy bunny being misled by the team I choose to call home and help to try and promote. I hope to resolve this issue soon and have the pics back up there in no time. In the meantime, it doesn't bear well does it. Don't see the soprt growing in anyway with behaviour like this.
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Milkman™
Les Strongman
Always Delivers
Posts: 5,300
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Post by Milkman™ on Sept 29, 2006 10:21:33 GMT
I thinks it all pathetic personally! there are better things to worry about than some photo put on the internet!! You probably would not feel like that if it paid your mortgage and put shoes on your kids feet. Is your job pathetic too?
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Higgy
Les Strongman
Posts: 5,293
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Post by Higgy on Sept 29, 2006 12:44:01 GMT
I doubt that photo sales pay much money to the panthers to be honest
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Post by martinski83 on Oct 1, 2006 16:31:33 GMT
I thinks it all pathetic personally! there are better things to worry about than some photo put on the internet!! You probably would not feel like that if it paid your mortgage and put shoes on your kids feet. Is your job pathetic too? So by that rationale then, is putting up fight clips on here and on youtube damaging the EIHL clubs because people can watch them for free online so they won't buy the game dvd?
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Milkman™
Les Strongman
Always Delivers
Posts: 5,300
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Post by Milkman™ on Oct 1, 2006 21:11:36 GMT
You probably would not feel like that if it paid your mortgage and put shoes on your kids feet. Is your job pathetic too? So by that rationale then, is putting up fight clips on here and on youtube damaging the EIHL clubs because people can watch them for free online so they won't buy the game dvd? If the Panthers have an image rights thing going on then it has to be respected (however petty you may find it) Theyre well within their rights to do it. Copyright theft is theft plain and simple, if your livlihood depended on it, you would think so too. Out of interest why not put the Premierleague logo on your front page with a link to the fantasy league you play in, and see how long you last before Dataco get in touch, they even own the phrase 'fantasy football'
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Post by Rob #12 on Oct 1, 2006 21:31:35 GMT
So by that rationale then, is putting up fight clips on here and on youtube damaging the EIHL clubs because people can watch them for free online so they won't buy the game dvd? If the Panthers have an image rights thing going on then it has to be respected (however petty you may find it) Theyre well within their rights to do it. Copyright theft is theft plain and simple, if your livlihood depended on it, you would think so too. Out of interest why not put the Premierleague logo on your front page with a link to the fantasy league you play in, and see how long you last before Dataco get in touch, they even own the phrase 'fantasy football' Yes but you see people like myself are trying to help the organisation by getting the word out. Not take revenue away from them, I would promote the official lines. I don't see how this stance is going to benefit anyone, not least the Panthers.
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Post by ted on Oct 1, 2006 21:57:59 GMT
Looking at it from a panthers point of view, a big organisation that has to have the right public image.
If they allowed the uploads of their image and players that means people could use them on pages that panthers dont agree with etc.
Its Panthers image, they have the rights. If they keep it controlled they can stop the use of piccys where they are not wanted by either having the copyright lines across or by having right click disabled.
Im with therapy on this. If you agree with it or not, its against the rules and civil disobedience is still disobedience.
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Milkman™
Les Strongman
Always Delivers
Posts: 5,300
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Post by Milkman™ on Oct 2, 2006 8:11:13 GMT
Yes but you see people like myself are trying to help the organisation by getting the word out. Not take revenue away from them, I would promote the official lines. I don't see how this stance is going to benefit anyone, not least the Panthers. You really need to read up on copyright law I think. Its interesting that you still carry an image of the Panthers on your front page, and at the bottom claim copyright on it. Also do you have permission of www.junkfoodnews.net for the use of their image as your avatar (edit sorry thats Martin, but the principal is the same)
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