Milkman™
Les Strongman
Always Delivers
Posts: 5,300
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Post by Milkman™ on Feb 17, 2011 17:27:45 GMT
Personally I didn't like Ellis that much as a coach and I think we can do better The most successful coach we ever had |
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Post by pantherdman on Feb 17, 2011 18:47:08 GMT
+1 on Ellis.
I'd much rather hear what Neil Black has to say TBH
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2011 18:59:19 GMT
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Mark
Randall Weber
Experience has taught me that when it really matters the only person you can rely on is yourself.
Posts: 4,636
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Post by Mark on Feb 17, 2011 21:50:51 GMT
Another good read from Mr Mitchell. It does seem that if you want to talk about Moran then the owner and management don't want to talk to you.
Why is he off limits? Is it because the truth hurts?
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Post by bill238 on Feb 17, 2011 21:59:08 GMT
Another good read from Mr Mitchell. It does seem that if you want to talk about Moran then the owner and management don't want to talk to you. Why is he off limits? Is it because the truth hurts? hasn't PIM just spoken to Neil Black? |
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Post by sambo79 on Feb 17, 2011 22:51:25 GMT
Another good read from Mr Mitchell. It does seem that if you want to talk about Moran then the owner and management don't want to talk to you. Why is he off limits? Is it because the truth hurts? hasn't PIM just spoken to Neil Black? It only took a petition signed by a good 10% of the fans and media coverage though. I'm sitting on the fence over this whole situation for various reasons (one of which being I got shot down when I dared to complain about player discipline a few years ago and even Mike Ellis had a sly dig at me in the T&D bar when I quizzed him about it) anyway, it looks as though you are ploughing a lone furrow in your diligent defence of all things Panthers Bill. Oh, expect you did agree that the website, social media and other things were rubbish - to me that's a huge huge part of any business in this day and age - regardless of how good your existing customer base is. If it works for the biggest (and smallest) companies in the world, then it would work for us. |
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Post by bill238 on Feb 17, 2011 23:14:24 GMT
hasn't PIM just spoken to Neil Black? It only took a petition signed by a good 10% of the fans and media coverage though. I'm sitting on the fence over this whole situation for various reasons (one of which being I got shot down when I dared to complain about player discipline a few years ago and even Mike Ellis had a sly dig at me in the T&D bar when I quizzed him about it) anyway, it looks as though you are ploughing a lone furrow in your diligent defence of all things Panthers Bill. Oh, expect you did agree that the website, social media and other things were rubbish - to me that's a huge huge part of any business in this day and age - regardless of how good your existing customer base is. If it works for the biggest (and smallest) companies in the world, then it would work for us. you don't need a petition though or anything for that matter to contact him, I personally haven't but I know numerous people who have sent him a letter about various topics and every single one of them has got a reply All I am doing is saying things that I know have substance, people on here say stuff which isn't true the whole time, people just love to moan, talking about media coverage no one has mentioned the unbelievable panthers app on the Iphone. Is it wrong for me to defend my club? From the beginning I have maintained what GM actually does but time and time I have been told how I am wrong and how I shouldn't trust the people who tell me. Jamie Black has now come out and said exactly what I first said and I'm expecting Neil Black to do exactly the same, despite this you can gurantee that there will still be stupid conspiracies about GM Also from what I've been told the panthers will be getting a new website next year |
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Yotes
Forum Admin 
Posts: 16,746
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Post by Yotes on Feb 17, 2011 23:14:29 GMT
hasn't PIM just spoken to Neil Black? It only took a petition signed by a good 10% of the fans and media coverage though. And we don't know what he said yet... |
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Yotes
Forum Admin
Posts: 16,746
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Post by Yotes on Feb 17, 2011 23:28:07 GMT
The iPhone app is great Bill, you're right. Shows what you can get if you put the right people, with the right skills, in charge of certain areas. Unique in this case.
The website and mass emails show what you get when that doesn't happen.
I've no idea if GM is a fly in the ointment, or just a victim of a succession of poor teams and coaches. But I do know he needs to delegate that side of things fast, because that's definitely not where his talents lie.
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Post by pantherinmanc on Feb 17, 2011 23:29:58 GMT
It only took a petition signed by a good 10% of the fans and media coverage though. I'm sitting on the fence over this whole situation for various reasons (one of which being I got shot down when I dared to complain about player discipline a few years ago and even Mike Ellis had a sly dig at me in the T&D bar when I quizzed him about it) anyway, it looks as though you are ploughing a lone furrow in your diligent defence of all things Panthers Bill. Oh, expect you did agree that the website, social media and other things were rubbish - to me that's a huge huge part of any business in this day and age - regardless of how good your existing customer base is. If it works for the biggest (and smallest) companies in the world, then it would work for us. you don't need a petition though or anything for that matter to contact him, I personally haven't but I know numerous people who have sent him a letter about various topics and every single one of them has got a reply All I am doing is saying things that I know have substance, people on here say stuff which isn't true the whole time, people just love to moan, talking about media coverage no one has mentioned the unbelievable panthers app on the Iphone. Is it wrong for me to defend my club? From the beginning I have maintained what GM actually does but time and time I have been told how I am wrong and how I shouldn't trust the people who tell me. Jamie Black has now come out and said exactly what I first said and I'm expecting Neil Black to do exactly the same, despite this you can gurantee that there will still be stupid conspiracies about GM Also from what I've been told the panthers will be getting a new website next year With respect bill, unless you come out and state how you know stuff or who you actually are I don't really have that much time for a lot of what you say because I don't know how to take it, there is no context. No offence meant but it's just the way I now feel. Once I've answered any questions people want to ask on the other thread regarding my conversation with Neil I'm going to delete my account, I feel that too many conversations on here are false and I'd rather just converse with people in the pub or at a rink, it's more genuine. I reiterate that I mean no offence by that to you or anyone else, just a conclusion I've come to and something I feel would probably benefit me (selfish!) in the long run. |
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Post by bill238 on Feb 17, 2011 23:47:02 GMT
you don't need a petition though or anything for that matter to contact him, I personally haven't but I know numerous people who have sent him a letter about various topics and every single one of them has got a reply All I am doing is saying things that I know have substance, people on here say stuff which isn't true the whole time, people just love to moan, talking about media coverage no one has mentioned the unbelievable panthers app on the Iphone. Is it wrong for me to defend my club? From the beginning I have maintained what GM actually does but time and time I have been told how I am wrong and how I shouldn't trust the people who tell me. Jamie Black has now come out and said exactly what I first said and I'm expecting Neil Black to do exactly the same, despite this you can gurantee that there will still be stupid conspiracies about GM Also from what I've been told the panthers will be getting a new website next year With respect bill, unless you come out and state how you know stuff or who you actually are I don't really have that much time for a lot of what you say because I don't know how to take it, there is no context. No offence meant but it's just the way I now feel. Once I've answered any questions people want to ask on the other thread regarding my conversation with Neil I'm going to delete my account, I feel that too many conversations on here are false and I'd rather just converse with people in the pub or at a rink, it's more genuine. I reiterate that I mean no offence by that to you or anyone else, just a conclusion I've come to and something I feel would probably benefit me (selfish!) in the long run. Fair enough PIM, everyone has different opinions on matters and I completely respect that, I'm shy and don't like people knowing who I am but that just me and I can understand when it frustates people I must say PIM its been great debating with you and I think you're a classy guy. Your comment a while back about not wanting to encorage or be part of a boycott as it would affect NB's business just oozes class and I must say although we obviously have different opinions you have gone about making yours in a very respectable and honourable way I hope you have got what you want out of your conversation with NB and I hope that you remain a panthers fan as I feel you really love the club, anyway good luck in whatever you decide to do |
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Post by pantherinmanc on Feb 17, 2011 23:54:16 GMT
Fair enough PIM, everyone has different opinions on matters and I completely respect that, I'm shy and don't like people knowing who I am but that just me and I can understand when it frustates people I must say PIM its been great debating with you and I think you're a classy guy. Your comment a while back about not wanting to encorage or be part of a boycott as it would affect NB's business just oozes class and I must say although we obviously have different opinions you have gone about making yours in a very respectable and honourable way I hope you have got what you want out of your conversation with NB and I hope that you remain a panthers fan as I feel you really love the club, anyway good luck in whatever you decide to do Thanks, I appreciate that, and you are spot on, I do love the club as I am sure you do as well. Likewise it has been good debating with you and I absolutely appreciate your reasons for wanting privacy, everyone has that right and I am not knocking anyone that chooses to retain anonymity by saying what I have. Good luck and I hope you continue to enjoy what is undoubtedly the greatest sport on this planet. |
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Post by bill238 on Feb 19, 2011 18:20:46 GMT
All I am doing is saying things that I know have substance, people on here say stuff which isn't true the whole time, people just love to moan, talking about media coverage no one has mentioned the unbelievable panthers app on the Iphone. Is it wrong for me to defend my club? (didnt want to quote it all Bill.) However Bill the Ap was the brainchild of my Son in Law and Unique Images and they offered it to Gary for free, he had no input other than to agree to something that cost him nothing built by people who are experts in their fields and aware of modern day communications! Also they are fans of the club! As you say many times Bill people talk misguided rubbish on here at times so I am happy to correct you on this one!  I didn't say that GM made it, I was just saying people love to moan about stuff and complain, media coverage was mentioned as being rubbish so I mentioned the excellent app which is good media coverage |
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Post by pantherman66 on Feb 19, 2011 20:56:21 GMT
The thing is oldman, GM saw it as a good idea and agreed to go with it, even though it wasn't his idea. How many people come on here and say, nothing good happens at the club if it is not Gary Moran's idea. That is even if they admit Gary Moran might actually do anything good.
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oldman
Simon Hunt
The World is full of experts
Posts: 1,111
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Post by oldman on Feb 19, 2011 21:35:01 GMT
The thing is oldman, GM saw it as a good idea and agreed to go with it, even though it wasn't his idea. How many people come on here and say, nothing good happens at the club if it is not Gary Moran's idea. That is even if they admit Gary Moran might actually do anything good. Over sensitive  of course he does some good stuff however an autocrat will always come unstuck in the end, if they forget why they are in that position! |
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Post by pantherman66 on Feb 19, 2011 23:42:52 GMT
Not over sensitive at all oldman, I don't give a stuff about Gary Moran. It is just that you and some others seem to have let your dislike/hatred of GM take over your enjoyment of watching the Panthers to such an extent where you have to shout down any fans who are positive in any way about the club, or even enjoy a game of hockey! You may say that I do the same, to any one with negative posts against the club, but this is supposed to be a FANS forum for SUPPORTERS of the Panthers. Therefore some support now and again, wouldn't go amiss.
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Mark
Randall Weber
Experience has taught me that when it really matters the only person you can rely on is yourself.
Posts: 4,636
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Post by Mark on Feb 20, 2011 1:37:51 GMT
SUPPORTERS who blindly follow like sheep are as big a part of the Panthers problems as those running the show.
The usual fallback position of the superfan, if you criticise you are accused of not being a real supporter.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Feb 20, 2011 8:40:22 GMT
SUPPORTERS who blindly follow like sheep are as big a part of the Panthers problems as those running the show. The usual fallback position of the superfan, if you criticise you are accused of not being a real supporter. 100% spot on. |
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator 
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
Posts: 10,995
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Post by Shaggy on Feb 20, 2011 10:45:07 GMT
SUPPORTERS who blindly follow like sheep are as big a part of the Panthers problems as those running the show. The usual fallback position of the superfan, if you criticise you are accused of not being a real supporter. Actually, fans - on whatever side - turning on other fans simply because they happen to have a different opinion.... THAT is the biggest part of the problem when it comes to the fanbase. We can criticise the club, Gary Moran, Neil Black, whoever, all we like for ignoring the fans or not caring about providing VFM or whatever (and those criticisms may or may not be true, in whole or in part)... but just look at us for a minute - the portion of the fanbase that actually says something (mainly those of us here on the Cage). Anyone who disagrees - ATTACK!! Call them this, call them that, trash them any possible way, attack their character... that on top of destructive criticism towards the club (ie: insults, personal attacks, calling the guy 'Moron' instead of his real name, etc) as opposed to constructive criticism (ie: PiM's letter to Neil Black). Saint or sinner at the helm of the Panthers - would YOU listen to a bunch of fans that kept doing all of that? I very much doubt it. The Panthers IMHO need to put their house in order. So do we. We're not going to get anywhere until club and fans decide to sit down and talk constructively and sensibly. Which means both sides swallowing their pride and accepting that they aren't going to get everything they want, both sides accepting that they're going to hear things said about them that they don't like - and those criticisms will be valid. Both sides being willing to change. |
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Mark
Randall Weber
Experience has taught me that when it really matters the only person you can rely on is yourself.
Posts: 4,636
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Post by Mark on Feb 20, 2011 19:19:08 GMT
THE one difference being we as supporters pay for the privilege of watching the Panthers and currently it's money poorly spent.
Try and get Gary Moran to host a fans forum to allow both sides spell out their grievences in a civilized manner, I guarantee it won't happen.
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Feb 20, 2011 23:16:10 GMT
Try and get Gary Moran to host a fans forum to allow both sides spell out their grievences in a civilized manner, I guarantee it won't happen. So get someone else to host/referee it? Anyway - you may be right about GM's attitude on that front, you may not... but how about we turn it around for a minute? The way that some people are talking at the moment, do you honestly expect that it would be "civilised" on the fans' side at such a forum? More importantly, just as you don't believe that GM would be reasonable on that front, do you honestly think that the Panthers believe that we would be either? There's no hard evidence on either side... but if we're making judgements based on our perception and/or guesses... isn't it reasonable to expect the same from the Panthers? I'm not trying to deflect attention away from any shortcomings on the part of the Panthers... simply pointing out that there are plenty of shortcomigs on the fans' side as well which would be just as much of an obstacle to a sensible dialogue. It takes two sides to make it work... it only takes one side - either side! - to wreck it. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2011 18:23:04 GMT
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Mark
Randall Weber
Experience has taught me that when it really matters the only person you can rely on is yourself.
Posts: 4,636
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Post by Mark on Feb 25, 2011 20:05:30 GMT
Try and get Gary Moran to host a fans forum to allow both sides spell out their grievences in a civilized manner, I guarantee it won't happen. So get someone else to host/referee it? Anyway - you may be right about GM's attitude on that front, you may not... but how about we turn it around for a minute? The way that some people are talking at the moment, do you honestly expect that it would be "civilised" on the fans' side at such a forum? More importantly, just as you don't believe that GM would be reasonable on that front, do you honestly think that the Panthers believe that we would be either? There's no hard evidence on either side... but if we're making judgements based on our perception and/or guesses... isn't it reasonable to expect the same from the Panthers? I'm not trying to deflect attention away from any shortcomings on the part of the Panthers... simply pointing out that there are plenty of shortcomigs on the fans' side as well which would be just as much of an obstacle to a sensible dialogue. It takes two sides to make it work... it only takes one side - either side! - to wreck it. I don't think the Panthers and Gary Moran in particular have got the bottle to face up to a few home truths. That's why it won't happen. |
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Feb 25, 2011 21:51:31 GMT
So get someone else to host/referee it? Anyway - you may be right about GM's attitude on that front, you may not... but how about we turn it around for a minute? The way that some people are talking at the moment, do you honestly expect that it would be "civilised" on the fans' side at such a forum? More importantly, just as you don't believe that GM would be reasonable on that front, do you honestly think that the Panthers believe that we would be either? There's no hard evidence on either side... but if we're making judgements based on our perception and/or guesses... isn't it reasonable to expect the same from the Panthers? I'm not trying to deflect attention away from any shortcomings on the part of the Panthers... simply pointing out that there are plenty of shortcomigs on the fans' side as well which would be just as much of an obstacle to a sensible dialogue. It takes two sides to make it work... it only takes one side - either side! - to wreck it. I don't think the Panthers and Gary Moran in particular have got the bottle to face up to a few home truths. That's why it won't happen. <shrugs> Possibly not... I'm not going to make any judgements on that score. Quite frankly, I'm lacking in confidence that either side has the "bottle" to engage in an honest and dedicated attempt to improve matters. Too much trench warfare. |
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Mark
Randall Weber
Experience has taught me that when it really matters the only person you can rely on is yourself.
Posts: 4,636
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Post by Mark on Feb 25, 2011 23:23:52 GMT
I don't think the Panthers and Gary Moran in particular have got the bottle to face up to a few home truths. That's why it won't happen. <shrugs> Possibly not... I'm not going to make any judgements on that score. Quite frankly, I'm lacking in confidence that either side has the "bottle" to engage in an honest and dedicated attempt to improve matters. Too much trench warfare. Problem is if something doesn't happen people on both sides are just going to dig their heels in even more. Agree about it becoming a slanging match however, too much bad feeling for too long for it not to decend to that level unfortunately. |
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