Shorty
Paul Adey
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Post by Shorty on Jan 29, 2008 9:37:57 GMT
Just checked Alleghe website and their last game is on 29th january !! They also play on the 2nd Feb......
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Post by texpef on Jan 29, 2008 10:03:38 GMT
mmmm, unless Nem is wrong and brits can be signed after the 1st feb then if his team in alleghe dont release him early i can only see Clarky being a spectator at the playoffs...
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Doughnut
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Post by Doughnut on Jan 29, 2008 11:42:41 GMT
Nope. It is a signing deadline. Besides, even if it was a restriction on ITC movements, DC currently holds one so you are no better off. You have till midnight Thursday. That quote looks vague to me. We'd need to see an official definition of an International Transfer (sorry no time to go read the IIHF rule book). Would Clarke need to be transfered by this definition in order to play for us or not? If he doesn't need an ITC to play here, could he play for us while the other club hold his ITC? (note: they are two seperate questions)
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Post by Flying Viking on Jan 29, 2008 12:12:22 GMT
From my understanding of the IIHF ITC regs (having read it a couple of times, and it's not totally transparent), DC would be on a limited ITC in Italy, which states an end date. Assuming that end date would be the end of the season in Italy, whenever that is. Whenever his ITC expires - whether at natural end date, or by an agreed early termination, then the player registration automatically reverts to the UK governing body (which I think is EIHA for these purposes). The statement from Mr Fasel above, says the transfer deadline is intended to stop players hopping from one country to another. But it's sort of unclear from the regs, whether a reverted registration would prevent a player from moving back to his native country, and continue playing. The difference between an ITC transfer, and a reversion, is that the IIHF has to rubber-stamp transfers, but reversions happen automatically and are NOT an ITC, so the IIHF can't/won't stop the latter. I think...
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Doughnut
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Post by Doughnut on Jan 29, 2008 12:41:57 GMT
Which makes it look as though Clarke could potentially see out the rest of the season in Italy, then come and play for us. Nemesis, over to you.
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Warren
Greg Hadden
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Post by Warren on Jan 29, 2008 12:53:49 GMT
I agree Viking, thats the way I see it.
as for a player to go on "loan" as suggested, to play outside of your native country, you require an ITC card. He could go on a 2-way with a an ENL team.
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Post by GlasgowPanther on Jan 29, 2008 13:16:59 GMT
Having just had a quick read through the regs myself I tend to agree with Viking as well. If clarke is on a limited ITC then when it expires or is terminated then it will revert back to his old national association. Which means that when his season is over in Italy he will be able to play for a uk club.
on a side note does this not open up a potential loop hole for signing imports without the use of an ITC card?
For example say an import player registerd in the uk signs for a club in europe. Then gets cut or leaves, could we sign him back without using an ITC card because his registration would have reverted back to the uk?
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keithb
Jade Galbraith
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Post by keithb on Jan 29, 2008 13:24:18 GMT
Why does evry club have to look for loop holes?
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Post by GlasgowPanther on Jan 29, 2008 13:32:59 GMT
I didn't say clubs were looking for loop holes I just noticed that this possibly could be one and was asking what other people thought.
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Post by Flying Viking on Jan 29, 2008 13:40:38 GMT
Although, I have to add, this doesn't take into account whatever rules the Elite League has, re signing deadlines. But I don't have any actual documentation of their rules to look at
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Post by Flying Viking on Jan 29, 2008 13:49:56 GMT
For example say an import player registerd in the uk signs for a club in europe. Then gets cut or leaves, could we sign him back without using an ITC card because his registration would have reverted back to the uk? If he's registered in the UK, he's not an import. Players have a "native" country of registration, and this will be the first country where they were registered as an adult player. It'd be pretty unlikely (although not unheard of) for a Canadian or Swede or whatever, to have played elsewhere till aged 17, then transfer to the UK not requiring an ITC (they need only a covering letter, as they count as junior), and then become an adult registered player for the first time in the UK. I suppose there could be overseas students with a good junior hockey pedigree in the UK, never registered as an adult player, and willing to register as an adult with the UK authority. It'd mean they'd need an ITC to go back to their own country though (unless they later applied for an unlimited ITC, to transfer home). If teams want to go looking for loopholes like that, good luck to them. We've got a fair number of good British lads of that age who deserve a place on a roster, who would be easier to recruit., IMO.
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Post by Nemesis on Jan 29, 2008 15:49:55 GMT
OK.
Done a bit of searching and made a few calls. This is still conjecture, however it is the opinion of people who should know. As ever, these things are not written in stone, or clearly defined.
The Jan deadline is for all signings. For a player to play for a club after this date, the club in question MUST hold his playing registration prior to the deadline. Club A holding a players registration prevents that player playing for any other club.
Further more.
The ITC reversion is negated by the fact that a players ITC has to be 'moved' for want of a better word prior to the deadline. DC obviously does not need a card to play here, he does though need one for Italy. Limited or not, leaving a club is classed as movement and so his ITC must have been unregistered - 'moved' - by the deadline, by the Italian club. As above, this would then prevent him from playing for that team after the movement of his card.
'Loans' are an interesting situation, and one for which I could get no answer at all. The registration thing is also interesting in that I as a Rec player can be registered to 3 teams simultaneously and a further 4th in a coaching capacity. Pro registrations would appear to be different.
Still not crystal I know, and talking to people today it is clear no-one knows for sure bar the IIHF I suspect.
It will be a wait and see thing, the one thing that was repeatedly stated was the aim of putting a stop to players moving to extend their playing seasons and becoming 'End of season specialists'
We wait and see.
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MP
Paul Adey
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Post by MP on Jan 29, 2008 17:15:58 GMT
Thanks for doing the research Neil - much appreciated. You get the feeling it's a well intentioned ruling but perhaps not thought through so well. Just remains to be seen if anyone tests out it's limitations.
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Post by courtmeister on Jan 29, 2008 18:17:23 GMT
Very interesting piece Nemesis, you are one of the few Steeler posters on here I always take time to read what you have to say <<nodding appovingly>>
You must have been a real swat in your school days :-)
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Post by heja on Jan 29, 2008 18:28:28 GMT
OK. Done a bit of searching and made a few calls. This is still conjecture, however it is the opinion of people who should know. As ever, these things are not written in stone, or clearly defined. The Jan deadline is for all signings. For a player to play for a club after this date, the club in question MUST hold his playing registration prior to the deadline. Club A holding a players registration prevents that player playing for any other club. Further more. The ITC reversion is negated by the fact that a players ITC has to be 'moved' for want of a better word prior to the deadline. DC obviously does not need a card to play here, he does though need one for Italy. Limited or not, leaving a club is classed as movement and so his ITC must have been unregistered - 'moved' - by the deadline, by the Italian club. As above, this would then prevent him from playing for that team after the movement of his card. 'Loans' are an interesting situation, and one for which I could get no answer at all. The registration thing is also interesting in that I as a Rec player can be registered to 3 teams simultaneously and a further 4th in a coaching capacity. Pro registrations would appear to be different. Still not crystal I know, and talking to people today it is clear no-one knows for sure bar the IIHF I suspect. It will be a wait and see thing, the one thing that was repeatedly stated was the aim of putting a stop to players moving to extend their playing seasons and becoming 'End of season specialists' We wait and see. i know imports playing rec are allowed to be registered to just two teams guess that could be the same for pro's as well provided it is in the same country eg on two way contracts
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Post by Green Giant on Jan 29, 2008 21:38:22 GMT
The Serie A regular season finishes on the 2nd February but every team then plays more games, either in the Master Round or in the Relegation Round. After this, the top 8 teams compete in the playoffs (according to www.hockeytime.net/calendario/index.php?date=regolamento). So the season could go on for a while for the better teams, and unless they're the team that's relegated, Alleghe will be in the playoffs as it's done on a quarter final, semi final, final basis.
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Post by texpef on Jan 29, 2008 22:00:29 GMT
OK. Done a bit of searching and made a few calls. This is still conjecture, however it is the opinion of people who should know. As ever, these things are not written in stone, or clearly defined. The Jan deadline is for all signings. For a player to play for a club after this date, the club in question MUST hold his playing registration prior to the deadline. Club A holding a players registration prevents that player playing for any other club. Further more. The ITC reversion is negated by the fact that a players ITC has to be 'moved' for want of a better word prior to the deadline. DC obviously does not need a card to play here, he does though need one for Italy. Limited or not, leaving a club is classed as movement and so his ITC must have been unregistered - 'moved' - by the deadline, by the Italian club. As above, this would then prevent him from playing for that team after the movement of his card. 'Loans' are an interesting situation, and one for which I could get no answer at all. The registration thing is also interesting in that I as a Rec player can be registered to 3 teams simultaneously and a further 4th in a coaching capacity. Pro registrations would appear to be different. Still not crystal I know, and talking to people today it is clear no-one knows for sure bar the IIHF I suspect. It will be a wait and see thing, the one thing that was repeatedly stated was the aim of putting a stop to players moving to extend their playing seasons and becoming 'End of season specialists' We wait and see. You may not like the idea of nottingham signing an impact player like clark, especially as he wouldnt count as an import however lets be honest here Nem noone least of all your so called "experts" know one way or the other whether this is "allowed" or not and given the EIHL and the way they ignore blatent rule breaking ahem ahem "swapping cornish for tess" ahem ahem then i suspect IF panthers did sign Clarky any rule breaking will be brushed under the carpet.... ....dont you? BTW these experts... wouldnt happen to be members of steelers organisation would they? Again imho a vested interested in not letting other teams sign quality players like Clark dont you think?..
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Warren
Greg Hadden
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Post by Warren on Jan 30, 2008 7:29:42 GMT
Tex, In between your snipes you do raise a fair point. It does bring up a good question of what will the EIHL do if Panthers do sign Clarke after the deadline on any kind of loophole? Trouble is this isn't an EIHL rule were talking about, its IIHF. If panthers were to do it, they do run the risk of bearing the Wrath of the IIHF, think what they could do, stop all ITC cards for Nottingham teams, Fines, etc. Not who we want to mess with. Clarke too could fall under there weight and have his ITC card "banned" for X years forcing him to only play in the UK, ruining his shot at the big money. So my point is, bring him over before the 31st and not after. Risk is too high. Regards the point with Tess for Cornish, we all know he's being paid in fluff and Stick tape this season, and all his wages will be paid next season. or Cornish is as some have suspected on here was the highest paid forward...
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Warren
Greg Hadden
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Post by Warren on Jan 30, 2008 7:31:47 GMT
For example say an import player registerd in the uk signs for a club in europe. Then gets cut or leaves, could we sign him back without using an ITC card because his registration would have reverted back to the uk? If he's registered in the UK, he's not an import. Players have a "native" country of registration, and this will be the first country where they were registered as an adult player. It'd be pretty unlikely (although not unheard of) for a Canadian or Swede or whatever, to have played elsewhere till aged 17, then transfer to the UK not requiring an ITC (they need only a covering letter, as they count as junior), and then become an adult registered player for the first time in the UK. I suppose there could be overseas students with a good junior hockey pedigree in the UK, never registered as an adult player, and willing to register as an adult with the UK authority. It'd mean they'd need an ITC to go back to their own country though (unless they later applied for an unlimited ITC, to transfer home). If teams want to go looking for loopholes like that, good luck to them. We've got a fair number of good British lads of that age who deserve a place on a roster, who would be easier to recruit., IMO. For an easy example theres Slava Koulikov at Hull, Born in Russia Registered as a player in GB so he's a fully fledged Brit.
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Post by texpef on Jan 30, 2008 16:11:08 GMT
Snipe?.. Moi?.. how very dare you Warren... If you werent so bloomin big may have had to do something nasty...
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Post by Nemesis on Jan 30, 2008 16:20:50 GMT
Tex. If one person in particular I spoke to doesn't know, then we really are in trouble... No-one was from Sheffield, or infact affilated with any one club. I couldn't care less if or who you sign mate, so long as I get to watch the best possible standard of hockey available from both my team and any opposition we are playing. Tess, I don't know, but then neither do you so we can leave it at that eh? Suffice to say the league agreed to the signing and rubber stamped it....
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Mythosman
Matt Myers
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Post by Mythosman on Jan 30, 2008 17:48:27 GMT
I don't know whether anybody has picked up on this, but yesterday Alleghe signed this guy: www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid=2471A left-shot dual National Canadian/Italian International forward! Does that indicate that Clarkie may soon get his release to return home?
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Post by texpef on Jan 30, 2008 18:06:33 GMT
Tex. If one person in particular I spoke to doesn't know, then we really are in trouble...No-one was from Sheffield, or infact affilated with any one club. I couldn't care less if or who you sign mate, so long as I get to watch the best possible standard of hockey available from both my team and any opposition we are playing. Tess, I don't know, but then neither do you so we can leave it at that eh? Suffice to say the league agreed to the signing and rubber stamped it.... Come on then Nem, if it aint simmsy who is so high up in the setup that they could give you such a definitive answer then?
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Post by Nemesis on Jan 30, 2008 18:53:33 GMT
Tex. If one person in particular I spoke to doesn't know, then we really are in trouble...No-one was from Sheffield, or infact affiliated with any one club. I couldn't care less if or who you sign mate, so long as I get to watch the best possible standard of hockey available from both my team and any opposition we are playing. Tess, I don't know, but then neither do you so we can leave it at that eh? Suffice to say the league agreed to the signing and rubber stamped it.... Come on then Nem, if it ain't simmsy who is so high up in the setup that they could give you such a definitive answer then? In my best Journalistic voice.... "Show me a court order, and I will name my source! LOL. Seriously mate, This person answers a lot of my questions and provides me with 'opinion' on various things Elite for my writings, as I have no doubt they and others do for many other journo's; I will not break their confidence. People were asking questions and I went and found some answers. There was no ulterior motive, no sour grapes or agenda, a simple favour to try and enlighten folk.....
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Post by Peacock on Jan 30, 2008 19:41:08 GMT
People were asking questions and I went and found some answers. There was no ulterior motive, no sour grapes or agenda, a simple favour to try and enlighten folk..... Which most of us took in the way it was intended. Thanks Nem
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