Adam
Chick Zamick
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Post by Adam on Aug 22, 2006 6:03:38 GMT
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Post by charlish2099 on Aug 22, 2006 6:43:45 GMT
where has theo gone?
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Adam
Chick Zamick
Posts: 7,519
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Post by Adam on Aug 22, 2006 7:33:55 GMT
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Shaggy
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Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Aug 22, 2006 7:38:16 GMT
Off to - would you believe - some non-contact league in Canada, apparently! Well, apart from possibly some Irish lads (made possible by the EIHL changing the rules just for Belfast - ain't that nice) that's it for Belfast's roster it seems. Looks to me like some serious talent up front, but looking shakier at the back... and overall a lack of depth which could potentially cripple them. Belfast are surely going to be relying on remaining injury-free.... and with all the enforcers/goons/hard men in the league this year, anyone see that happening? Definitely weaker than last season.... |
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Rich
Paul Adey
Go hard or go home
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Post by Rich on Aug 22, 2006 8:08:59 GMT
Skeihar is a massive signing for them, they had no depth balance or toughness, he can add alot of that but hes still going to be busy protecting all the other guys who wont fight
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Post by darrellpanther on Aug 22, 2006 8:16:46 GMT
Skeihar is a great signing for giants, one of the best all round players in the league last season.
JP Morin looks a good signing also
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Post by begmurphy on Aug 22, 2006 8:20:47 GMT
Giants are looking as strong now as they did pre Theo last season. Time will tell how we last during the season, but if we can stay reasonably injury free then we will be tough to beat.
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Aug 22, 2006 12:25:34 GMT
Giants are looking as strong now as they did pre Theo last season. I have to disagree - they look weaker in all areas:- - Offence. Even if you disregard Fleury (and he only missed the first 10 games) Belfast still look weaker up front. They've replaced the league's 3rd highest points scorer (Courtenay) with the 4th highest (Dutiaume) - so that's nearly an even trade. But it's looking like the first 2 lines are going to have to do all the work. What's your 3rd line going to consist of? Plus you've lost out on the Brits front - now have only Levers instead of Levers and Shields.... And if we look at the Giants' roster for the whole season - you've not replaced Fleury at all. 38 games worth of high scoring gone. - Defence. From 4 imports and Leigh Jamieson down to 3 imports and LJ... can all 4 of them handle 30+ minutes a game, every game? The fatigue factor could be immense here. And if one of them gets injured - where's the replacement going to come from? The already-stretched forward lines? - Netminding. Minard remains, but Nathan Craze has gone... a very talented young backup - who is his replacement? As far as anyone can tell, there aren't any left unsigned who can come even close to matching him. If Minard gets crocked..... ouch. And what team ever stays "reasonably injury free"? Even worse (for Belfast, in this regard) with all of the physical players being signed by just about every team, the potential for injuries has actually increased over last season. It looks to me like the Giants are relying on nothing going wrong for the entire season - a happy state of affairs which hardly ever happens in real life. They have virtually no leeway to cover for injuries, they have very little flexibility in their roster - their depth in lines (both forward and defence) has decreased, which can only serve to increase the fatigue factor - and the overall points-scoring potential looks to have gone down. Oh, they're going to win their fair share of games, and they are not going to be pushovers on any given night. And if that roster is fully fit for the Play-Offs, they could make a serious impact there. But over the long haul of the season? - I think they are going to suffer.... |
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spuzz
Matt Myers
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Post by spuzz on Aug 22, 2006 14:04:04 GMT
Spot on post Shaggy  |
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Post by texpef on Aug 22, 2006 15:09:14 GMT
no team seems to have depth in numbers, a problem with the EIHL putting limitation of squad size although belfasts' 3rd line does look particularly weak as compared to 3/4 rivals.
Also how many EIHL teams would be happy to play their backup a single game let alone a sustained period? I for one would be mortified if i thought our backup was going to get more than a few mins so not something only belfast have a problem with here..
Other than that i agree, seems to be a similar situation to sheffield with eggs in one basket scenario...
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Aug 22, 2006 15:39:17 GMT
no team seems to have depth in numbers, a problem with the EIHL putting limitation of squad size although belfasts' 3rd line does look particularly weak as compared to 3/4 rivals. No kidding.... right now, Belfast don't even have a full 3rd line! they have exactly 7 forwards signed (6 imports and Marc Levers). Now that they have used up their import allocation, their only major source will be these Irish players that the EIHL have changed the rules to allow them to have (isn't that nice of them? :  Going by the details on Panthermick's signing thread, we have depth stats as follows (not including 2-way players):- *Basingstoke = 10 forwards, 5 defence *Belfast = 7 forwards, 4 defence *Cardiff = 11 forwards, 4 defence *Coventry = 9 forwards, 6 defence Edinburgh = 5 forwards, 5 defence Hull = 7 forwards, 6 defence Manchester = 9 forwards, 4 defence Newcastle = 9 forwards, 5 defence *Nottingham = 10 forwards, 5 defence Sheffield = 8 forwards, 5 defence * = have filled all import slots (and probably finished recruitment apart from two-way players, and the Irish players in Belfast's case) So looking at that.... Cardiff have the most offensive depth (but none on defence) and Coventry have the most defensive depth (but none on offence). Basingstoke and Nottingham have gone for the most flexible solution - 3 forward lines plus a spare, 2 defensive lines plus a spare. |
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123
Pat Casey
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Post by 123 on Aug 22, 2006 17:45:13 GMT
So looking at that.... Cardiff have the most offensive depth (but none on defence) and Coventry have the most defensive depth (but none on offence). Basingstoke and Nottingham have gone for the most flexible solution - 3 forward lines plus a spare, 2 defensive lines plus a spare. Coventry have 10 forwards and 5 defencemen, with 2 or 3 two-way players to be added. FWIW Belfast will also add Walton, who will probably play 3rd line winger. He can cover in defence, but Courtenay won't be keen to use him as cover for a top 4 D-man - in fact last season we hardly even saw their 3rd line in tied matches or when they were behind, certianly in Coventry and Nottingham. I would imagine that if an import D is injured for a couple of matches, a forward would play in defence. If for longer than that, import cover will be brought in. A bigger problem would arise if Jamieson gets injured. |
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Post by rangers on Aug 22, 2006 18:05:59 GMT
*Basingstoke = 10 forwards, 5 defence *Belfast = 7 forwards, 4 defence *Cardiff = 11 forwards, 4 defence *Coventry = 9 forwards, 6 defence Edinburgh = 5 forwards, 5 defence Hull = 7 forwards, 6 defence Manchester = 9 forwards, 4 defence Newcastle = 9 forwards, 5 defence *Nottingham = 10 forwards, 5 defence Sheffield = 8 forwards, 5 defence Vipers have 6 d-men(Robinson, Weaver, Wilson, Mihalik, Lundin and Thornton) and 8 Forwards, with either 1 or 2 import forwards to come. Depth wise we are Ok. Quality wise aint so sure. |
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Aug 22, 2006 19:12:05 GMT
Coventry have 10 forwards and 5 defencemen, with 2 or 3 two-way players to be added. Vipers have 6 d-men(Robinson, Weaver, Wilson, Mihalik, Lundin and Thornton) and 8 Forwards, with either 1 or 2 import forwards to come. Depth wise we are Ok. Quality wise aint so sure. <shrugs> Like I said - I took the details from Panthermick's thread.... I was only counting the numbers of each given on there. And be fair to the man... he wasn't far off! Like Mike Ellis said at the Q&A (oh sorry, DoUrden - did I say that out loud? ;D  )... can't understand why any team is going to go with just 4 regular D-men. It's a recipe for disaster.... and we here in Nottingham should know!  |
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Post by begmurphy on Aug 23, 2006 10:32:33 GMT
Shaggy
We may yet have an ace up our sleeve as far as the defence goes. Lets just wait and see what happens when the rest of our signings are announced and the season starts.
Dont forget our first game is against your good selves on Sept 9th so i would say we should both get a gauge of how things will work out after then.
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Post by gisland on Aug 23, 2006 11:36:54 GMT
Shaggy wrote:
these Irish players that the EIHL have changed the rules to allow them to have (isn't that nice of them? )
Thats twice you have used the above in your 2 posts.Im curious about what this is,not much has been written about it or mentioned on other forums,so i dont know what rule amendments have taken place.Are these changes now in force?
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keithb
Jade Galbraith
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Post by keithb on Aug 23, 2006 11:55:31 GMT
Taken from the news section of the giants official forum:
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Post by gisland on Aug 23, 2006 12:05:38 GMT
Posted by keithb on Today at 7:55
Taken from the news section of the giants official forum:
Quote:COORS GIANTS SET TO DEVELOP IRISH TALENT
Thursday 20th July - Coors Belfast Giants today announced a major step forward for local players in Ireland both North & South. Speaking after yesterdays Elite League Board meeting, General Manager John Elliott explained that the board have approved an amendment to playing status rules.
Elliott said “Any Elite League team will be able to sign any player registered and playing with the Irish Ice Hockey Association as additional ITC players over and above the current 10 ITC players allowed per team. This represents a major opportunity for players to develop their game with an Elite League team and will allow that player to continue representing Ireland in the national team.”
President of Irish Ice Hockey Association, Cliff Saunders added: “This is a very welcome and exciting development for Irish players and we welcome the initiative taken by Belfast Giants. As we prepare for the Division III World Championships here next year we hope to be able to consult with IHUK and EIHL with the aim of ensuring that we can ice the strongest possible team from players here in the island of Ireland.”
The Belfast Giants are now expected to start the paperwork process to enable Irish netminder Kevin Kelly to join the Giants as back up netminder for this season following the departure of Nathan Craze to Bracknell.
Coach Ed Courtenay has also today sent out a message to all local players that he is looking to add to his roster this season with local players. "I will be holding a local tryout session before the season starts and I am hopeful that I will be able to bring some additional new local players into my team. We will confirm the date and time of these tryouts soon and I would ask any aspiring local players to get in shape for this opportunity."
Thanks keith
tend to flick through the forums for info,mostly because its more up to date etc.
Wonder was this change always in the pipeline(with the proposed new irish rinks opening etc)
Would it be correct to presume the irish lads(if any are signed) would have been classed as "imports"before the change.?
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Aug 23, 2006 12:19:37 GMT
Would it be correct to presume the irish lads(if any are signed) would have been classed as "imports"before the change.? It would be correct to presume that, yes. |
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Doughnut
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Post by Doughnut on Aug 23, 2006 13:06:31 GMT
I don't see the problem with this to be honest. My interpretation is basically that Irish players will be treated pretty much like Brits as far as the EIHL rules are concerned. As far as I'm aware, the standard of hockey played in Ireland is no higher than it is here, so what difference does it make? Also, these players will be available to all clubs in the EIHL so Belfast have no significant advantage from it.
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keithb
Jade Galbraith
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Post by keithb on Aug 23, 2006 14:20:23 GMT
This is the interesting part for me.
I wonder which team will be the first to try & sneak in a import by this method.
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Doughnut
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Post by Doughnut on Aug 23, 2006 14:23:29 GMT
This is the interesting part for me. I wonder which team will be the first to try & sneak in a import by this method. I think this answers your question: But firstly, I don't think they're "sneaking" anyone in, they've announced their intentions in a press release. Secondly, what's the big deal? |
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Post by texpef on Aug 23, 2006 16:19:22 GMT
dont think he was referring to the backup netminder position doughnut, anyone remember that teams were allowed a "dual national" in the heineken days? Well, guess which team had two? Think he might have been referring to the first team to sign an "irish" canadian....
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Doughnut
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Post by Doughnut on Aug 23, 2006 16:25:31 GMT
Think he might have been referring to the first team to sign an "irish" canadian.... Ah! Now I understand the gripes. Ah well, I guess the option is there for all clubs though. |
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Rich
Paul Adey
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Post by Rich on Aug 23, 2006 16:33:37 GMT
dont think he was referring to the backup netminder position doughnut, anyone remember that teams were allowed a "dual national" in the heineken days? Well, guess which team had two? Think he might have been referring to the first team to sign an "irish" canadian.... Owen Nolan to panthers next season then?!  Dont see the problem personally, its only like signing a scottish canadian surely? |
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)... can't understand why any team is going to go with just 4 regular D-men. It's a recipe for disaster.... and we here in Nottingham should know! 
