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Post by crunchie on Apr 27, 2005 22:13:23 GMT
Just to do a straw poll/test the water, & following on from PantherJo's thread, how do you actually plan to vote?. Like others have stated, I aint 100% happy with Labour either (Iraq war & plans to make higher earners pay more tax - everyone should pay the same rate), but see it as a toss up between those & the Conservatives, & see anything else as a wasted vote. I did toy with the idea of voting Lib Dem, but see them as being too wishy washy, & without any key policies that effect me personally (Although I am in favour of an extra 1p in the pound added to my tax bill, to pay for services which we all use). I am according to the quiz, very Green & I can see that, but we don't have a green candidate, & a vote for them is a wasted vote. It's not ideal, & I guess not right, but I'll be voting tatically & voting Labour.
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MP
Paul Adey
Hail hurts and rain is cold. Summer in the mountains
Posts: 6,811
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Post by MP on Apr 27, 2005 23:02:08 GMT
There are things the current government have done which I'm uneasy about and Tony Blair seems to have reached his sell by date....
However, Labour have done well with the economy overall and like it or not, that is fundamental to our society.
The Conservatives are promising anything to everyone to be paid for by money which won't be there in reallity when the time comes.
I'm a liberal at heart really and usually vote Lib Dem in the local elections (they give us good councilors) but they are not going to form a government so are not an option at the moment.
So I reckon I'll back Labour again - they don't do a lot for me but I'd rather have them than risk Mr Howard wrecking the economy.
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Post by heja on Apr 28, 2005 0:23:27 GMT
i'm voting labour i think not 100% will propbably be a toss up on the day/ if i hear somthing that will really affect me in the next few days.
but on the whole IMO if yopu vote labour or conservative it will make very little difference at all as i can almost garuntee that they will have to end up making teh same decsions to keep the contry going in the end
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Jo
Pat Casey
Posts: 327
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Post by Jo on Apr 28, 2005 7:50:33 GMT
I've always tended to vote Lib Dem but they get a very small percentage in my constituency, so i'm tempted to vote Labour in the general just to make sure the tories don't get in. Our local labour MP - Nick Palmer - seems like a good guy actually - he 'agrees with me' on a lot of issues that aren't on the mainstream agenda such as factory farming and global trade. It frustrates me that a vote for him is also seen as a vote of confidence in the current Labour government though. I would dearly love the Liberals to become the main opposition party this year and see the Tories crumble. Won't happen though
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Ian
Matt Myers
Posts: 1,702
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Post by Ian on Apr 28, 2005 7:57:13 GMT
Really undecided at this election, none of the parties really have my support right now. I have serious reservations about Blair's presidential style and the way he rides roughshod over any opposition in his party. Having said that, the government has done an excellent job with the economy and that is a big point in their favour - I run my own business and I've just bought my first house so economic stability / low interest rates are important to me.
I like some of the Conversative ideas but their campaign has been too negative, based almost entirely on immigration policy (which doesn't affect me directly at the moment to be perfectly honest) and I am extremely dubious about their spending / borrowing / revenue plans. Plus there is no way I want to see Michael Howard as PM. If Portillo or Clarke were leading the party I might consider them. Added to which, having seen a Tory government close the pits and rip the heart of my home town (Hucknall) and put my dad on the dole for years as a result it would take a lot to make me vote for them.
Then there are the Lib Dems. I like Charles Kennedy but he is a bit of a buffoon and I cannot imagine him as a statesman. Their policies (like the Tories actually) seem to be promising everything to everyone to get votes and their "taking the moral high ground" against the other parties' negative campaigns is almost as irritating as the negative campaigning itself.
I have a tough decision to make by next Thursday. The other disheartening thing is that although I am determined to vote on principle, I live in one of the most affluent constituencies in the country (the house I've bought is elsewhere, I can only afford to rent here!) - it has been Conservative with a huge majority since 1945! So I know that however I vote the same MP will get in (admittedly he does a good job). No wonder that so many people feel disenfranchised with our electoral system and processes.
Sorry for the long post, but you did ask! And, sad as it may be, I am very interested in politics.
One final thing: whatever happens in my area and nationally, I want Labour to get in in the Broxtowe constituency. My best mate works as an assistant to Nick Palmer the MP there and it would be good if he still had a job come next Friday. So if you live in Broxtowe - you know what to do!!!!
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Post by sonicyouth on Apr 28, 2005 10:57:55 GMT
Liberal Democrats because I read the facts and I like their policies the most.
I'm horrified and frightend that someone has voted BNP. That's the end to any import players whatsoever in England then and goodbye to Elite hockey in Nottingham. Nice one!
1939 mate.
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Post by girdeaux on Apr 28, 2005 12:01:30 GMT
Liberal Democrats because I read the facts and I like their policies the most. I'm horrified and frightend that someone has voted BNP. That's the end to any import players whatsoever in England then and goodbye to Elite hockey in Nottingham. Nice one! 1939 mate. What an over the top statement
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Post by pantherjo on Apr 28, 2005 13:38:06 GMT
I think you have a choice of either labour or Conservative as other posters have said anything else is just a waste of a vote..... I did the test and came out i should vote green but theres no point so it looks as though it will have to be Labour.
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Post by Samxpenguin on Apr 28, 2005 15:12:36 GMT
This is the first time i will be able to vote, I still havn't decided whether it will be Labour or Liberal Democrats. I massivly disagreed with the War in Iraq, but feel Labour have suceeded economically and i would prefer to pay extra tax and see it go to public services than a reduction in taxes (Although beign a student that is far easier to say. Also, being a student, i think im strange in agreeing with tuition fees. I don't see why the country should pay even mroe towards people going to University. Yet i do think for poorer familys there should be larger grants . Although, i think in my area the Labour MP (John Heppel) would be a huge majority last time, and i think he will again.
I'm generally left wing in my views (accept maybe on things like school disapline and crime). I could never vote for Conservatives, ane especially not under Michael Howard. I realy don't like the negative campaign, and recent personal attacks on Tony Blair. In my eyes thats not hwo a election should be fought, and evidently shows the weaknesses in thier polices. Which to me just don't seem to add up. I'd rather not have the Euro (although Blair today has stated it won't be introduced for another atleast 5 years if Labour get into power), but theres no way i'd vote UKIP, i can't see any party that devotes all thier power to Immigration beign worth a look. And after seeing the BNP broadcast last week... well to be there nothing more than pathetic and utterley rascist.
A sad thing it seems very few people who are 18 at my 6th form will vote, they see 'no point' and 'don't care'.
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Post by girdeaux on Apr 28, 2005 15:45:56 GMT
This is the first time i will be able to vote, I still havn't decided whether it will be Labour or Liberal Democrats. I massivly disagreed with the War in Iraq, but feel Labour have suceeded economically and i would prefer to pay extra tax and see it go to public services than a reduction in taxes (Although beign a student that is far easier to say. Also, being a student, i think im strange in agreeing with tuition fees. I don't see why the country should pay even mroe towards people going to University. Yet i do think for poorer familys there should be larger grants . Although, i think in my area the Labour MP (John Heppel) would be a huge majority last time, and i think he will again. I'm generally left wing in my views (accept maybe on things like school disapline and crime). I could never vote for Conservatives, ane especially not under Michael Howard. I realy don't like the negative campaign, and recent personal attacks on Tony Blair. In my eyes thats not hwo a election should be fought, and evidently shows the weaknesses in thier polices. Which to me just don't seem to add up. I'd rather not have the Euro (although Blair today has stated it won't be introduced for another atleast 5 years if Labour get into power), but theres no way i'd vote UKIP, i can't see any party that devotes all thier power to Immigration beign worth a look. And after seeing the BNP broadcast last week... well to be there nothing more than pathetic and utterley rascist. A sad thing it seems very few people who are 18 at my 6th form will vote, they see 'no point' and 'don't care'. Apathy will be the end of democracy. As for your post Andy, full marks & you've probably spoken for me as well.
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Post by Samxpenguin on Apr 28, 2005 17:39:30 GMT
Apathy will be the end of democracy. As for your post Andy, full marks & you've probably spoken for me as well. Or maybe Sam
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Shorty
Paul Adey
Still here for Private Messages
Posts: 6,636
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Post by Shorty on Apr 28, 2005 18:21:38 GMT
So some people want another four years of tax and spend? If people are voting for the first time, I cant quite see how they are so dissillusioned with other parties when they have not had the opportunity to show them what they can do. If people are not happy with Blair in charge but dont feel the other parties are up to scratch then simply dont vote. Using your vote in this manner is not wasting it, but sending out a clear message that all of the political parties need to step it up. One of my biggest gripes is the waste of £1.5billion in childrens trust funds over the next four years. Surely its better to spend this money on education now rather than it making investment companies richer over the next 18 years and beyond. The vast majority of these freebies wont have any additional monies paid into them, and come the childs 18th birthday wont even pay a months rent at University. What a ridiculous waste of money.
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Post by heja on Apr 28, 2005 19:09:15 GMT
The idea of that is that it gets you started i bieleve and then your parents add to it when they can, so that when you are 18 you will have a say £3000 or more in the bank to say help pay for your first place (home or apartment when you have a job) maybe help you buy a car. ( i know it wouldn't help you that much with rent but it would get you started.
Just basically a stepping stone to get you started and to help keep you out of debt.
although i agree with you that it is a waste of money and they should spend that £1.5b or what ever it is on education now rather than helping people in 18 years time
as spending the money on education now will surely help students now as well as in the future.
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Post by crunchie on Apr 28, 2005 19:22:30 GMT
I had to pay for my education, as did my wife.... & rightly so. I didn't expect help from goverment or parents, & I didn't get it. If I needed money, I went out & earnt it. I also took out student loans, & paid them back AS & WHEN I gained full time employment. I wanted to better myself, but I didn't see why others should have to fund it. I still think that's the case. You want further education? Pay for it yourself!.
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Post by heja on Apr 28, 2005 19:25:04 GMT
agreed!
when i say put money into education i mean to help the teachers and make them better ( and i don't mean givening them more money as that won't make them better)
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MrsJoel
Pat Casey
Yum yum yum! And he could play a bit, too!
Posts: 277
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Post by MrsJoel on Apr 29, 2005 7:54:32 GMT
I went to university to gain a qualification essential for following my chosen career.
I graduated in 1991, and since then I would like to think that I have long since repaid my "debt" to society and the tax-payer, both in the large amounts of tax I have paid ever since, and in the service I give to the community.
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Post by crunchie on Apr 29, 2005 10:00:28 GMT
Every working person pays tax. We all provide services of some description to the community. We all WANT better jobs, better money, & better prospects. Should the rest of society fund our wants?.
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Rhino#13
Jim Keyes
South Notts Outlaws Rule
Posts: 906
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Post by Rhino#13 on Apr 29, 2005 11:23:54 GMT
What an over the top statement Oh I dunno. My gut reaction was to be appalled that anyone's voting BNP too. Obviously the imports won't stop coming though. Its interesting that the BNP seemingly aren't targetting Radcliffe-On-Trent this time since the RAF Newton Asylum Centre proposal has fallen by the wayside. Their election leaflets were some of the funniest stuff I've read in years: "This Government is already planning in the next 30 years to build five giant cities, each the size of Birmingham, to house asylum seekers in" That isn't a joke, that's a direct quote. Err, where would these cities fit ? And if this Government were actually capable of building that much housing that quick for whatever reason, I'd be really impressed ! Laugh ? I almost voted Veritas Where are the yogic flyers this year anyway ? Have the Natural Law Party realised there are less expensive hobbies to pursue ? I actually nominated my local Green Party candidate for the Election. This terribly earnest young man turned up on my doorstep and asked me to sign as one of the ten nominees he needed to take part. They only had a week to get the signatures and were in a bit of a rush apparently. 'You don't have to vote for us', he stressed cheerfully. He had no other signatures on his clipboard and I felt sorry for him, so I read the small print and signed. We do have a Green candidate this time so I assume 9 other people took pity on him too. Ain't local politics great ? I'm a true blue Tory in all honesty although I get more apathetic each time I vote as its a pretty poor choice we've got to choose between these days. I don't trust anything that comes out of Blair's mouth, but Howard is a PR nightmare who has the manner of a vampire. Kennedy is probably the best leader, but he's not gonna get in. The LibDems have always suffered from that which is a shame as they have had a number of good leaders. That may be in part due to the fact that their leaders have the luxury of never having to back up anything they say with action as they never get in. Wish the Tories wouldn't be so obsessed with tax cuts as I'm not convinced anyone thinks they're a good idea as its pretty obvious since the last recession that we still end up paying for them, one way or another. No one likes paying tax, but I'm not averse to the amount it has been decided I personally pay. Veritas wanting a flat 22% rate of income tax for everyone turned me off. The highest earners currently pay 40% I believe. Can't remember what the lower band is, but its either 22% or lower I thought. So I could be paying more for the high earners or it represents a massive hole in lost tax revenue anyway. Doesn't add up. Labour did have the very good idea of handing control of interest rates over to the Bank Of England to stop politicians meddling with them for political gain. But that's a useful tactic as they can take the plaudits for the low inflation rate which is directly affected by the Bank Of England's interest rate control, but if it goes wrong they can blame them. Fair enough, they haven't tried that to date. A hung parliament might be interesting actually. The LibDems would become significant at that point.
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Post by girdeaux on Apr 29, 2005 15:12:19 GMT
The fact is that the NSDAP got into power in Germany due to social & economic collapse after the Great war.
The BNP can't claim our economy is in ruins, blame a defeat that never was on the Jewish influence in government or fight for power with the Communist party.
I doubt very much the BNP will ever get into any serious position to challenge politically, mainly because the majority can them for what they are.
The only reason that far-Right parties have had success in Germany & France since the 1990's is largely down to the apathy of voters, not because Right-wing views are gaining support per se.
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andyd
Ken Westman
THE logo!
Posts: 2,719
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Post by andyd on Apr 29, 2005 17:58:01 GMT
I am in a real tough corner on this one. I am not impressed by any of the major parties, I would usually vote Tory but that doesn't sit comfortably with me on this occasion (partly because I'm voting in Newcastle East and the Tory candidate lives in Buckingham! Stupid!)
Its funny though other than the 3 main parties I can only choose the Socialist Alternative or...wait for it...the Communists. Yes seriously!
I have no idea what I'm going to do. I also have to do it soon because its a postal now that I live in Brum and didn't change it in time.
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Post by Samxpenguin on Apr 29, 2005 19:22:37 GMT
If people are not happy with Blair in charge but dont feel the other parties are up to scratch then simply dont vote. Using your vote in this manner is not wasting it, but sending out a clear message that all of the political parties need to step it up. Surely spoiling your Ballot paper, or voting for a minority party would be a better way to 'send out a clear message'? Otherwise it won't appear to be sending out a message, just being apathetic and not caring.
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Shorty
Paul Adey
Still here for Private Messages
Posts: 6,636
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Post by Shorty on Apr 29, 2005 21:05:36 GMT
Some people spoil there ballot papers by mistake!
Apathy is what people will spin to you about if you dont vote. Why take the time to go and put a line through your ballot paper as opposed to just not going to vote?
I am going to vote because I want to be included in the statistics of those who voted against labour. I doubt it will make much difference, but personally feel the need to vote against him.
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Post by hitman69 on May 1, 2005 22:40:41 GMT
as negative as it sounds im not voting.
labour are the best of a bad bunch and seeing as its not illegal to not vote , i aint voting.
this country is the pits, taxation on anything that can be taxed is extortionate, and good old gordan brown has some money to find to fill that big hole he has been trying to cover up for a couple of years. immagration, you can come to the UK if you like we will take you, oh and if you need any money from the government just ask. the NHS, haha the less said the better. education, my children at the moment are in good schools but i bet not all kids are getting the education they deserve. the war in IRAQ, blair will do anything to keep Bush happy (puppet), mind you its the good old US of A that put saddam there all those years ago and now look,
its something a lottery win would do for me, i would be gone tomorrow if i could
this country stinks
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Post by crunchie on May 2, 2005 1:05:56 GMT
This country stinks eh?. IF so, I have 2 questions:
1/. If it's so bad, why are you still here?. With the open EU market, & the ability to live & work virtually any place in Europe we please. You DON'T actually have to live in the UK.
2/ Again, if it's the pits..why don't you vote, help elect a goverment of YOUR choice, & lobby them to make the changes you want?.
APATHY RULES OK!!
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Post by heja on May 2, 2005 1:13:38 GMT
well its not quite that easy is it
you have to learn the language, the way of life and leave all your friend behind and basically start from scatch.
unless your in a profession like your wigwam where i am guessing they would be inneed of people like you the same here as well
but you would still have to learn the language and leave all your friends etc
i wouldn't say this country is the pits though its almost no different to any other country in the world and if it is it is ually because its better
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