|
Post by texpef on Mar 19, 2007 9:23:09 GMT
i am sure it is stoopy and as many have said if it was neil black i am sure also that both the steelers and devils fans would be falling over themselves to stick the boot in. Oh and gazza it is a well known fact to avoid tax to put businesses/investments etc in your wifes name... i am not suggesting this is the case here but come on its playing semantics to say both clubs are not owned by the philips family now isnt it especially as Mr. Philips is the experienced one in british hockey here. Oh and finally to say pro sportsment dont throw games, dont make me laugh it has happened in pretty much all major sports, racing, athletics football off the top of my head. Anyone remember early 90's durham wasps unbeatable yet get beaten last game of the season by alsorans as they wanted to manipulate the playoff groups, guess nothing changes...
|
|
|
Post by Lucy on Mar 19, 2007 9:33:12 GMT
You know what started this thread? The paragraph from the Devils own official website.
Read it again, and you'll see why people might become 'suspicious'. It wasn't in any way started as an act of contempt by a Panthers fan. It was a response to that comment!
|
|
|
Post by bobness on Mar 19, 2007 9:34:32 GMT
I don't think any of this matters, although I'm generally in the Shaggy/Stoopy/Gazza camp. It's not ideal to have a husband and wife owning 2 teams for this very reason, but so what if we do get Steelers? It has always been in the Panthers' hands to be able to beat Sheffield. If we can't beat a team on a given day, then we hardly deserve to win anything do we? Therein lies the issue. All those missed points for rank performances at home to Hull (for just one excellent example) are what cost us league positions as much as the Steelers games. I thought Gallant was Superman the way some people were talking even before he arrived. We'll be Ok then.....
|
|
Rink Rush
Pat Casey
Temporary Photo
Posts: 255
|
Post by Rink Rush on Mar 19, 2007 9:39:45 GMT
FWIW I don't want the Panthers in the QF, largely due to the fact that I would like to see them at the weekend with the Steelers. Have a huge crowd, both sets of supporters cheering loud and proud. And of course if both of our teams are there then there will be bigger gate receipts and almost a sell out crowd, which is something they don't have at the moment. Nah, you want a Saturday night game here so you can come out drinking with us again. Admit it ;D
|
|
|
Post by gazzathedevil on Mar 19, 2007 11:02:23 GMT
You know what started this thread? The paragraph from the Devils own official website. Read it again, and you'll see why people might become 'suspicious'. It wasn't in any way started as an act of contempt by a Panthers fan. It was a response to that comment! The game previews are written by Neil Chiplen, who other than doing soem of the best articles i have seen has no affiliation to the owners and just does his website and programme work. I'm not saying the Steelers wouldnt be to dissapointed with playing the panthers and neil probably thought the same, but the comments here are from people who didnt see the effort put in by BOTH sides and immediatily took the easy dig route as per usual. If thsoe players didnt want to win that game then they are in the wrong profession they should be actors as it wsa a performance of a life time. Once again the negatives have to outway the positivies when people go looking for negatives that arent there. Joe Myers and Alex Symmonds played so well for the Devils last ngiht and they are up and coming British talent, then you had Davey Lawrence in the other net looking assured and stepping up for his team. So many positivies last ngiht i wish people would concentrate on them ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/sad.png)
|
|
|
Post by maxfax on Mar 19, 2007 11:36:10 GMT
[So many positivies last ngiht i wish people would concentrate on them ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/sad.png) Ahhhh...but where's the fun in that tho' mate? ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
|
|
|
Post by spik on Mar 19, 2007 11:57:40 GMT
Another good reason for an Aussie style Play-offs if possible to format.
Coventry v Sheffield Nottingham v Newcastle Manchester v Basingstoke Belfast v Cardiff
Lets say all first named teams win over the first round.2nd round would be...
Sheffield v Nottingham Manchester v Cardiff with Coventry and Belfast waiting in the 3rd round for the winners of these games for a semi final clash at the Finals. Would teams want to drop as low down to 5th and 6th to avoid the top two.Or even could they manage this near the end of the season without notice.Even when 5th and 6th win there first round draw they have to endure another game because of their lower league placing.
|
|
|
Post by Luca Toni on Mar 19, 2007 12:29:44 GMT
Two teams owned by one family. You'd have to be Gazzathedevil or Nemesis not to ask questions about that. My question is this: why is it allowed?
|
|
|
Post by heja on Mar 19, 2007 12:40:57 GMT
i think neil black at one point had interests in manchester
there is a rule to stop player be swicthed between the teams though, eg smith couldn't go and join steelers this year at all if he got released by devils
|
|
|
Post by gazzathedevil on Mar 19, 2007 12:47:15 GMT
Two teams owned by one family. You'd have to be Gazzathedevil or Nemesis not to ask questions about that. My question is this: why is it allowed? Becasue there is no rule against it, Now lets ask another question would you have rathered no Sheffield Steelers and No Cardiff Devils? Because with out the outstanding jobs Bob has done with Sheffield and Mariani with Cardiff thats what would have happened.
|
|
|
Post by Luca Toni on Mar 19, 2007 12:59:54 GMT
I'd rather the league be professional Gazza. The trouble is in too many things people hold up the "we won't exist otherwise card" in UK hockey. This is another one. If the league can't be professional in all its activities then, yes, I question its worth AT ALL. Otherwise you get this last season.
In any case, I'd question the logic inherent in the question: why does such a rule mean one doesn't exist? It seems to me it means they just can't be in the same league.
|
|
|
Post by newham on Mar 19, 2007 13:10:20 GMT
I don't see how someone can not ask questions about this. Before the game, there is a release saying that it would be in their best interests to lose but keep clear of Nottingham, and they magically lose in OT...... Lil convenient no?
|
|
|
Post by gazzathedevil on Mar 19, 2007 13:12:46 GMT
I'd rather the league be professional Gazza. The trouble is in too many things people hold up the "we won't exist otherwise card" in UK hockey. This is another one. If the league can't be professional in all its activities then, yes, I question its worth AT ALL. Otherwise you get this last season. In any case, I'd question the logic inherent in the question: why does such a rule mean one doesn't exist? It seems to me it means they just can't be in the same league. So go on then name me ONE incident where either club hasnt acted in a proffessional manner? I'ed love to hear it. The thign i think many people are waiting for is a huge slip up and i think many would have wanted it to happen by now. Thanfkully it hasnt. So another question were you there last night? did you see the effort from both teams that wanted to win the game? i just think your looking for problems that arent there, bob works hard with his hockey club, and mariani works hard with hers. i honestly dont see the problem it hasnt effected anything for anyone.
|
|
|
Post by Lucy on Mar 19, 2007 13:17:46 GMT
Someone suggested to me that if the League Officials are introduced in any way at the play-offs, we should all show them what we think - a loud BOO!
This League is run in a complete shambolic and disgraceful manner, and it's embarrassing for the fans.
Perhaps we should produce an article to send to the national press. Perhaps we should start a petition to send to the League, demanding a clear and concise set of rules be available to all clubs and fans, to eliminate the complete farce of this season!
|
|
|
Post by maxfax on Mar 19, 2007 13:17:58 GMT
Do I believe this game was fixed/thrown? Nope. Do I believe it is right to have interests in more than 1 club? Nope Do I believe things are bent/flexed to suit certain clubs? Yes Do I believe the EIHL is a complete & utter joke? Yes
The whole thing/season/league has become one very un-funny joke. As a potential outsider looking in, you'd never guess this was a pro league. What hope does this league have of attracting & keeping major sponsors, OR getting regular & decent TV exposure, with farces like this happening? I cringe sometimes. Amateurish, doesn't even begin to cover how this league must look.
|
|
|
Post by maxfax on Mar 19, 2007 13:22:20 GMT
Gazza... Take them blinkers off for a second. No one is disputing they work hard for their clubs. However, as you well know, that isn't the issue here is it? Imagine (If you can) other clubs being involved, other than Cardiff, & Shuf... or how it might appear to outsiders lookin' in. People ARE (& rightly so) going to question things like this. This is supposed to be a sport, a sport played on a fair & even keel...it doesn't look like that as an outsider looking in in my opinion mate. Sorry.
|
|
Doom
Greg Hadden
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_orange.png)
Posts: 1,591
|
Post by Doom on Mar 19, 2007 13:23:10 GMT
The problem was, nobody else was willing to take over the Steelers at the asking price a certain Mr Lea was after.
Without Bob Phillips we would have been stuck with Norton Lea and the inevitable would have eventually happened.
You may ask what that has to do with you. As supporters you probably couldn't really care what happens to Sheffield, but as a businessman, I'm sure your owner does.
If the rest of the league were so uncomfortable about Bob Phillips taking over Sheffield I'm sure they would have voiced their objections, the fact that the take over happend suggests most were in favour of this move.
The league needs Sheffield, just like they need Nottingham, Belfast et al.
How much damage would it cause to Mr Black's/Nottingham's bank balance if Sheffield weren't in the league? People may suggest they're bored of the Sheffield v Nottingham rivalry, but the attendances for those games are still far in excess of any others you get.
Out of interest, how many 5,000+ attendances have you had this season that didn't involve Sheffield?
It may not be ideal having one person with interests in two camps, but it's better than the alternative of losing one (or possibly two) of the biggest clubs in British hockey.
As for the conspiracy bit, I really don't believe that for one minute. If we really are after 4th place, then I guess we'll throw Wednesday night's game against Newcastle.
Regards
Doom
|
|
Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
Posts: 10,995
|
Post by Shaggy on Mar 19, 2007 13:46:12 GMT
I don't see how someone can not ask questions about this. Before the game, there is a release saying that it would be in their best interests to lose but keep clear of Nottingham, and they magically lose in OT...... Lil convenient no? Yeah, they didn't do themselves any favours there. I've already said that I don't believe that there was any collusion or fixing or whatever... but ye gods, could they be any more stupid in coming out with guff like that? ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png) I can understand why Gazza especially is so annoyed... Cardiff were in a really bad position (it's still not brilliant, is it?) and haven't got a track record of dodgy antics. However, Gazza - I think you might be being a little oversensitive in assuming that people are blaming Cardiff. Unlikely, given the other club involved - one which DOES have a track record. Not to mention dodgy ownership stuff (has Darren Brown got out of prison yet?). That's the thing - the track record and therefore the potential is there... so it's fairly obvious that anything even slightly whiffy is going to get picked up on. Hey, what goes around comes around... It's also amusing to see - yet again - the response of the fans of the league-leading (nation-leading?) club in the mudslinging and 'dish it out but can't take it' stakes. You've slung mud by the ton and flatly rejected any of the logical explanations given in rebuttal - and you expect us to take YOUR responses seriously? Come on guys... get real. Face up to it - the whole lot of you have been stained by your club's past actions and by the attitudes of your club and fanbase... and you expect people to just forget about it? What planet are you on anyway? You want to avoid accusations like these? You want to be taken seriously? Then clean house... and be SEEN to clean house. Clean up your act and stop complaining about getting back a small fraction of what you have dished out. Then, and only then, are you likely to have any kind of credibility. Wording toned down in places - Cage Admin
|
|
|
Post by KimThePanther on Mar 19, 2007 13:53:09 GMT
While I don't for one minute think that this result was arranged while ever one family has it's finger in two pies the Devils and Steelers are going to be left wide open to this and no matter how hard Mrs Phillips works in running Cardiff it's difficult to defend the principle.
As long as it doesn't last forever, I don't mind the current situation. The Steelers are going to look less and less an attractive investment the more times they change ownership or suffer from financial problems. They've been lucky up until now that someone has always been willing to step in and bail them out, that luck is going to run out eventually.
Once things have stabilised themselves at both clubs I'd like to think that this situation will be discontinued, the EIHL is still in it's infancy and the financial stability of it's clubs is essential. There will be a time though when it becomes untenable.
|
|
|
Post by gazzathedevil on Mar 19, 2007 14:01:25 GMT
Gazza... Take them blinkers off for a second. No one is disputing they work hard for their clubs. However, as you well know, that isn't the issue here is it? Imagine (If you can) other clubs being involved, other than Cardiff, & Shuf... or how it might appear to outsiders lookin' in. People ARE (& rightly so) going to question things like this. This is supposed to be a sport, a sport played on a fair & even keel...it doesn't look like that as an outsider looking in in my opinion mate. Sorry. No need to apologise i can see totally where your coming from. What i dont get is there hasnt been any situation where there has been seen to be a problem so why are people worried? if something untoward was giong to happen it would have happened by now. To answers Shaggy's querie as to how things are going in Cardiff, still not ideal but there is a real feel around the club that we are starting to turn a corner on friday and Sunday our crowd was 1,400 plus which is a real good thign to see. Ho0pefull we can really pack the place out for the Playoff game we get at home whoever it is against. We also took a coach full of fans to the British cup final on a wednesdya night plus the car travellers. Our Booster club is gaining members by the home game and our social bowling night cant accept anymroe people this evening. So on that score im very happy ;D
|
|
|
Post by Luca Toni on Mar 19, 2007 18:12:48 GMT
I'd rather the league be professional Gazza. The trouble is in too many things people hold up the "we won't exist otherwise card" in UK hockey. This is another one. If the league can't be professional in all its activities then, yes, I question its worth AT ALL. Otherwise you get this last season. In any case, I'd question the logic inherent in the question: why does such a rule mean one doesn't exist? It seems to me it means they just can't be in the same league. So go on then name me ONE incident where either club hasnt acted in a proffessional manner? I'ed love to hear it. The thign i think many people are waiting for is a huge slip up and i think many would have wanted it to happen by now. Thanfkully it hasnt. So another question were you there last night? did you see the effort from both teams that wanted to win the game? i just think your looking for problems that arent there, bob works hard with his hockey club, and mariani works hard with hers. i honestly dont see the problem it hasnt effected anything for anyone. Read that quote of mine again Gazza. My concern is the way the league is run (along professional lines please) not the two clubs here. Its the league should police that. My suggestion is they choose the rules to suit the situation rather than make the rules then tell interested parties to stick by them. It is fairly standard throughout pro sport that the same person/family cannot own more than one club in the same competition. Its funny that you will seemingly perform every mental, logical and linguistic piece of gymnastics necessary to avoid that fact. I don't care that nothing has happened. How would we know it had? And in any case we'd find out after the cheating and not before. Its all about the good of the sport and presenting everything as above board and beyond suspicion.
|
|
|
Post by texpef on Mar 19, 2007 18:18:14 GMT
you mean apart from cherry picking devils players and passing steelers rejects back? yes sample has done very well but wouldnt you have rather had your players that went to sheffield back?....
|
|
Steelersmith
Pat Casey
Lets Go Steelers Lets Go!!!
Posts: 351
|
Post by Steelersmith on Mar 19, 2007 19:02:50 GMT
I think a point for us was a good result in the end. If you asked me before the weekend if we got would of got a 3pt weekend I would have just laughed so I'll take the points. Tess keeps on scoring the points think its 90 and counting now. Great to see Davey get a chance between the Pipes. Roll on the playoffs!
|
|
|
Post by gazzathedevil on Mar 19, 2007 21:24:29 GMT
you mean apart from cherry picking devils players and passing steelers rejects back? yes sample has done very well but wouldnt you have rather had your players that went to sheffield back?.... Jona left because he wanted to work with Whis again, and he wanted a change as he felt he wasnt challenged in Cardiff any more as the fasn loved him. Hill left because Ed wanted to sign Sample instead of him as he thought he was better than him. and he has proved he is. Prove that anyone other than the coaches had a hand in those deals. If you ask the players they will tell you exactly why they left. And to be hoenst Mark Richardson has been more productive for us than Jona has and Sample has been more productive than hilly so i dotn really want to change anything with our brits at the moment. Add Cowley and an ever improving Lee Richardson and we are looking in my opinion much better than Sheffield in the Brits department.
|
|
|
Post by Luca Toni on Mar 20, 2007 5:52:51 GMT
"Prove that anyone other than the coaches had a hand in those deals."
Well that's the problem: when its all in the family it would be very hard to.
|
|