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Post by texpef on Jan 18, 2017 16:44:08 GMT
IMHO no it wouldnt be a mitigating success, great that the panthers win the continental cup (two sides to every story its much easier to win now the CHL is around although you beat what is put in front of you), however how many fans actually were there to see it? Couple of hundred in a fanbase of 4000-6000? peanuts. Most fans go to watch games to see the team win day to day games i.e. the league and we pretty much chucked that away in November, this team didnt even make it to the xmas break. The only league win in living memory and it was frittered away as imho it felt like the club thought job done rather than build a legacy that i think alot of fans were hoping for if not expected, i really dont see much difference with this. CN has proved time and time again he can motivate a squad to win cup games and he weaved hhis magic again this time but he has spectacularly failed at what is the big prize in british ice hockey. the league. Whether this is the limited budget not allowing him the sign the calibre of players he wants, whether management do not allow him to replace or substitute injured players effectively (either too late or not at all), or maybe he just isnt up to that job i dont know but as great as this win is it must not be allowed to again paper over massive cracks that are wrong with this club on its day to day activities which i believe the vast majority of the fan base pay to see and which the club spectacularly year on year fail to deliver. Inccidentally its funny how the club can arrange a webcast in another rink and generate enough income to most likely fund the whole exercise yet cannot find the inclination to do it in their own arena..... go figure eh The Continental Cup was outlined as the top priority this season. That has been acheived, so in my eyes that makes it a success. The big prize in British Ice Hockey is very subjective, depends what you put the most value in as a fan. The league may not be top of my priority list, but logically now that we've won a European competiton the way to build on it is to focus in on the one trophy that's avoided us. Outlined by who? Certainly not the fans who bought a season ticket and want to see a successful league campaign and not challenge post november.. The BIG prize in British ice hockey is the league, always has been and most likely always will be due to the sporting nature of the country ie football. It should be the top priority for all clubs that compete in it, which goes especially true for those with what should be enough financial clout to support the challenge. The FACT that panthers spectacularly underachieve in the league almost EVERY season should have been addressed years ago...and imho its poor management at all levels as to why this has been allowed to continue at the club without being addressed before now. |
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Post by pantherlee on Jan 18, 2017 16:45:05 GMT
I think you'll find you're in a great minority though. The culture in this country regarding most sports revolves around league titles. Thats the one most of the fans want and i'm not saying that the playoffs and cup aren't important but the league should be priority. its the biggest and longest and hardest competition to win therefore should hold more value. The playoffs are the main thing in America because they are big competitions, 4 rounds of best of seven from the teams from the 16 that have proven themselves the best that year, whereas here it just 4 games there's no real comparison I know and appreciate that I am in a minority, that does not mean that I wrong though. Yes our playoff system is just 4 games but it's been ingrained in me that playoffs is what is important before I came to knowing the EIHL so that is what is going to be important to me. Irrelevant of how poor the playoff system is. No it doesn't mean you're wrong but for arguments sake say 90% of people prioritise the league and 10% the playoffs. Which should a business be trying the hardest be trying to please/placate/win over or whatever. Playoffs maybe ingrained in you personally but the league is ingrained in the nation generally and unless the playoffs become such a competition like they are in the states then thats the way it always going to be. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 17:29:36 GMT
I know and appreciate that I am in a minority, that does not mean that I wrong though. Yes our playoff system is just 4 games but it's been ingrained in me that playoffs is what is important before I came to knowing the EIHL so that is what is going to be important to me. Irrelevant of how poor the playoff system is. No it doesn't mean you're wrong but for arguments sake say 90% of people prioritise the league and 10% the playoffs. Which should a business be trying the hardest be trying to please/placate/win over or whatever. Playoffs maybe ingrained in you personally but the league is ingrained in the nation generally and unless the playoffs become such a competition like they are in the states then thats the way it always going to be. I'm not saying a business should try to please the minority. I have always stated what is important to me. Not what should be important to the Nottingham Panthers. It's why I don't show the annoyance the fanbase in general does when we go on a bad run and are 'out of the title race' by November. As I've stated aswell the next logical step for the club is to address the league form. May not mean as much to me as others but that is now where there focus should lie as it's the final frontier so to say. |
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titch
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Post by titch on Jan 18, 2017 17:32:32 GMT
I know and appreciate that I am in a minority, that does not mean that I wrong though. Yes our playoff system is just 4 games but it's been ingrained in me that playoffs is what is important before I came to knowing the EIHL so that is what is going to be important to me. Irrelevant of how poor the playoff system is. No it doesn't mean you're wrong but for arguments sake say 90% of people prioritise the league and 10% the playoffs. Which should a business be trying the hardest be trying to please/placate/win over or whatever. Playoffs maybe ingrained in you personally but the league is ingrained in the nation generally and unless the playoffs become such a competition like they are in the states then thats the way it always going to be. You're not wrong based on your opinion, you're quite correct that the Playoffs are of much higher value to you. In a general sense, you are wrong. The playoffs is just one weekend of hockey, a celebration for the end of season and one final push to grab a trophy, something of which is special for about 3-4 days before you forget about it. Personally for me it goes: #1 CHL #2 Continental Cup #3 League #4 Playoffs #5 Winning an away match #6 Singing 'If you all hate the Steelers clap your hands' #39 Challenge Cup success Obviously #1 could be 20-200 years away or may never be achieved by any British team but I'd rather have my team win a European trophy and gain a CHL place than win the league and gain a CHL place. Other people may argue that the league is of higher value than a European cup and that's not a wrong opinion either. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 17:43:04 GMT
The Continental Cup was outlined as the top priority this season. That has been acheived, so in my eyes that makes it a success. The big prize in British Ice Hockey is very subjective, depends what you put the most value in as a fan. The league may not be top of my priority list, but logically now that we've won a European competiton the way to build on it is to focus in on the one trophy that's avoided us. Outlined by who? Certainly not the fans who bought a season ticket and want to see a successful league campaign and not challenge post november.. The BIG prize in British ice hockey is the league, always has been and most likely always will be due to the sporting nature of the country ie football. It should be the top priority for all clubs that compete in it, which goes especially true for those with what should be enough financial clout to support the challenge. The FACT that panthers spectacularly underachieve in the league almost EVERY season should have been addressed years ago...and imho its poor management at all levels as to why this has been allowed to continue at the club without being addressed before now. That's not the sole reason buy season tickets. Didn't Neil Black say something about focusing on Europe in the pre-season? He's also notorious among some for being a 'Euro snob' and wanting to win in Europe so it's a fair assumption as to what priorities Corey will have been given. Also capital letters don't make things true. |
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The Flying Shirt
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 18, 2017 17:46:47 GMT
I know all Sheffield fans view the league as priority and rightly so. Recent cup success has brainwashed the modern panthers fan into thinking it's the cups which are important or when the next euro jolly is ! The CC win is history now . Let's see how performances stack up in the coming games which really matter ! It's personal preference, there's no wrong answer. The play offs would have some meaning if it wasn't a one game knockout to the final. An entire winter and then just a quarter, semi and a final greatly reduces it's importance. Any team that reaches the semis for the weekend has a fighting chance in a one off game. To win the league takes months and a fair amount of effort and consistancy. The way the league is setup at the moment anyway. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 17:51:36 GMT
It's personal preference, there's no wrong answer. Maybe not but I go to see a winning team and be the best . That's what you earn by winning the league, not by grabbing a few cups. If I want a night out I ll travel alot closer to my local or get the cans in ! It's not about being a night out. It's about enjoying the game. At the end of the day that's all this is, it's a game and games are meant to be enjoyed. |
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Jan 18, 2017 18:12:24 GMT
They need to (as I believe you've said previously) sign a team with no 'ringers' on part-time deals. Just to (temporarily I'm sure) get this back on track, I agree entirely with this. I know we had some bad luck with the ringers in our CHL year (The Phantom and Podlesak's family misfortune), but it didn't work at all and just ended up being disruptive. We need to do what teams like Sheffield have done since. We're not going to win the thing but it should enable us to get a good team in, and get them in early. Hopefully the cachet of having won the CC will make us a more attractive destination. |
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Warren
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Post by Warren on Jan 18, 2017 18:17:05 GMT
They need to (as I believe you've said previously) sign a team with no 'ringers' on part-time deals. Just to (temporarily I'm sure) get this back on track, I agree entirely with this. I know we had some bad luck with the ringers in our CHL year (The Phantom and Podlesak's family misfortune), but it didn't work at all and just ended up being disruptive. We need to do what teams like Sheffield have done since. We're not going to win the thing but it should enable us to get a good team in, and get them in early. Hopefully the cachet of having won the CC will make us a more attractive destination. If we are in the CHL next season, the objective should be to win 2 games (depending on format). the jump that getting out of the group would be, is too big IMO, not impossible, but a damn difficult task. |
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Jan 18, 2017 19:08:38 GMT
Of course there is a right/wrong answer... ask the majority of EIHL fans around the league which trophy they think is the one to get... I believe the vast majority will say the league title.. I know all Sheffield fans view the league as priority and rightly so. Recent cup success has brainwashed the modern panthers fan into thinking it's the cups which are important or when the next euro jolly is ! The CC win is history now . Let's see how performances stack up in the coming games which really matter ! Sheffield see the league as priority Pidge......because it's the only one they can win ! 😂 |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 19:16:02 GMT
I know all Sheffield fans view the league as priority and rightly so. Recent cup success has brainwashed the modern panthers fan into thinking it's the cups which are important or when the next euro jolly is ! The CC win is history now . Let's see how performances stack up in the coming games which really matter ! Sheffield see the league as priority Pidge......because it's the only one they can win ! 😂 Well wouldn't you like to be that fortunate hey going for a 3rd consecutive title.! Just imagine |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 19:25:14 GMT
Just to (temporarily I'm sure) get this back on track, I agree entirely with this. I know we had some bad luck with the ringers in our CHL year (The Phantom and Podlesak's family misfortune), but it didn't work at all and just ended up being disruptive. We need to do what teams like Sheffield have done since. We're not going to win the thing but it should enable us to get a good team in, and get them in early. Hopefully the cachet of having won the CC will make us a more attractive destination. If we are in the CHL next season, the objective should be to win 2 games (depending on format). the jump that getting out of the group would be, is too big IMO, not impossible, but a damn difficult task. Well if you have aspirations of winning 2 games then we ll need a team a dam sight better than this one . Even the worst ranked teams in that such as Stavander from Norway are world's better than Ritton . (Here comes EMB saying I'm writing them off already just like I did last weekend:) ) To even think about building a team to attempt to progress through the budget would have to increase ten fold. I hope he doesn't once again get distracted a tourney he has no chance of winning to the cost of a decent league campaign..again |
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Shorty
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Post by Shorty on Jan 18, 2017 19:48:47 GMT
Nottingham, Sheffield and Braehead have all won one game in the CHL. Two games is not that far off.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 20:18:47 GMT
Nottingham, Sheffield and Braehead have all won one game in the CHL. Two games is not that far off. It's doable but would mean us to very very consistent. Don't count Clans as their GWG was a empty netter! Lol |
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Post by spik on Jan 19, 2017 20:17:36 GMT
If the Cup and PO competitions were a bit more meaty I'd accept that they were important.But set against a 52 game league (far too long for me)they are a seperate identity.If we had more teams qualifying (with a better advantage/reward for the play offs)the competition woud mean something.Hopefully more teams in the league will get closer to this.
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Post by texpef on Jan 19, 2017 21:50:59 GMT
Outlined by who? Certainly not the fans who bought a season ticket and want to see a successful league campaign and not challenge post november.. The BIG prize in British ice hockey is the league, always has been and most likely always will be due to the sporting nature of the country ie football. It should be the top priority for all clubs that compete in it, which goes especially true for those with what should be enough financial clout to support the challenge. The FACT that panthers spectacularly underachieve in the league almost EVERY season should have been addressed years ago...and imho its poor management at all levels as to why this has been allowed to continue at the club without being addressed before now. That's not the sole reason buy season tickets. Didn't Neil Black say something about focusing on Europe in the pre-season? He's also notorious among some for being a 'Euro snob' and wanting to win in Europe so it's a fair assumption as to what priorities Corey will have been given. Also capital letters don't make things true. Capital letters might not make it fact but the fact panthers havent won the league more than once does mean its a fact. It also means as stated that they have spectacularly failed to capitalise on what should be huge advantages over less well supported clubs as regards league trophy success... Couple of other points, yes at the moment it is NB's club to do with as he pleases but he cannot be surprised if he states openly that he supports a european campaign with a couple of weekends a season most likely away from home (sometimes a very long and difficult to get to way) over a league campaign that supporters feel cheated out of what should be a priority in giving the fans value for money in the season tickets purchased. Id be very surprised if season ticket holders think value for money is watching panthers take on superior quality opposition teams week in week out. If then said season tickets vote with their feet the following year then again he shouldnt be surprisetd. At the moment it seems alot of longer term fans have voted with their feet with the lack of league success attributed to the poor management (or lack of use of what should be available spending power) and this is currently being balanced by intake of new fans. This will reach a saturation point and numbers will start to drop imho unless there is a change in emphasis. Again imho this is one reason why sheffield are so successful, the fan power keeps them on their toes, IF there is a slight drop in quality the fans can be seen to vote with their feet, something not experienced as yet in the panthers fan base. There is no reason why panthers could not have near sellout crowds most weeks in nottingham. It was clear when the team were successful they got bigger crowds but imho the management do not have the drive or ambition necessary to improve on the steady numbers of fans currently attending and so are content with the lack of spending (and very good profits being made with the minimal effort shown). Thus the expediture required to mount a true league campaign and not just bring in ringers to bolster what is mostly seen as mediocre at best league form is never truely seen in nottingham imho. If this is fine with you as a fan then great... enjoy, me? well i have started voting with my feet as one of many people i know over the decades who have already decided enough is enough. Decades of watching our competitors and in particular sheffield win league campaigns because of a lack in investment in the team drains... The point that panthers management have turned a game i have enjoyed watching from my early adult life into something id rather not spend my money on. Yet again we have another season where i think our competitors have taken the team on the ice more seriously that we have in nottingham (what was that phrase we started this season with... lawrence and his mates, did anyone really think that that was going to work over a full season?), yet we have jobs for the boys, what is now 3 or 4 coaches?.... Personally i really hope that panthers can give us a team the fans deserve more than one season in 30 but at this rate i am far from convinced... |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2017 14:01:57 GMT
That's not the sole reason buy season tickets. Didn't Neil Black say something about focusing on Europe in the pre-season? He's also notorious among some for being a 'Euro snob' and wanting to win in Europe so it's a fair assumption as to what priorities Corey will have been given. Also capital letters don't make things true. Capital letters might not make it fact but the fact panthers havent won the league more than once does mean its a fact. It also means as stated that they have spectacularly failed to capitalise on what should be huge advantages over less well supported clubs as regards league trophy success... Couple of other points, yes at the moment it is NB's club to do with as he pleases but he cannot be surprised if he states openly that he supports a european campaign with a couple of weekends a season most likely away from home (sometimes a very long and difficult to get to way) over a league campaign that supporters feel cheated out of what should be a priority in giving the fans value for money in the season tickets purchased. Id be very surprised if season ticket holders think value for money is watching panthers take on superior quality opposition teams week in week out. If then said season tickets vote with their feet the following year then again he shouldnt be surprisetd. At the moment it seems alot of longer term fans have voted with their feet with the lack of league success attributed to the poor management (or lack of use of what should be available spending power) and this is currently being balanced by intake of new fans. This will reach a saturation point and numbers will start to drop imho unless there is a change in emphasis. Again imho this is one reason why sheffield are so successful, the fan power keeps them on their toes, IF there is a slight drop in quality the fans can be seen to vote with their feet, something not experienced as yet in the panthers fan base. There is no reason why panthers could not have near sellout crowds most weeks in nottingham. It was clear when the team were successful they got bigger crowds but imho the management do not have the drive or ambition necessary to improve on the steady numbers of fans currently attending and so are content with the lack of spending (and very good profits being made with the minimal effort shown). Thus the expediture required to mount a true league campaign and not just bring in ringers to bolster what is mostly seen as mediocre at best league form is never truely seen in nottingham imho. If this is fine with you as a fan then great... enjoy, me? well i have started voting with my feet as one of many people i know over the decades who have already decided enough is enough. Decades of watching our competitors and in particular sheffield win league campaigns because of a lack in investment in the team drains... The point that panthers management have turned a game i have enjoyed watching from my early adult life into something id rather not spend my money on. Yet again we have another season where i think our competitors have taken the team on the ice more seriously that we have in nottingham (what was that phrase we started this season with... lawrence and his mates, did anyone really think that that was going to work over a full season?), yet we have jobs for the boys, what is now 3 or 4 coaches?.... Personally i really hope that panthers can give us a team the fans deserve more than one season in 30 but at this rate i am far from convinced... Yet again, value for money on anything (including season tickets) is subjective. There coud be a plethora of reasons that people buy a season ticket that doesn't include winning the league in the top 5. I'm not getting into financials, not unless presented facts and figures in black and white of what comes in and what goes out. Yes anyone can make what they consider an educated guesses on what they think the numbers are, but in a society where people want to feel cheated, outraged and annoyed just so they have things to complain about (that's society in general, as a species human beings are incredibly stupid) I air on the side of tremendous caution on this subject. I think people are far to fixated on the management of the club which detracts from there enjoyment. I'm not going to a hockey game to think of the politics and suchforth behind the scenes. Enjoying things is easy, people just get in their own way. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2017 14:05:33 GMT
They need to (as I believe you've said previously) sign a team with no 'ringers' on part-time deals. Just to (temporarily I'm sure) get this back on track, I agree entirely with this. I know we had some bad luck with the ringers in our CHL year (The Phantom and Podlesak's family misfortune), but it didn't work at all and just ended up being disruptive. We need to do what teams like Sheffield have done since. We're not going to win the thing but it should enable us to get a good team in, and get them in early. Hopefully the cachet of having won the CC will make us a more attractive destination. I'm not sure about Lee but Podlesak was here with a view to staying wasn't he? Think that year as a big body he would've been a very good addition to that squad as we where missing size. |
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Jan 20, 2017 14:53:46 GMT
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Mark
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Post by Mark on Jan 23, 2017 20:00:19 GMT
They won't build on it. Look at how poor we've been in the league since we won it.
Won the league that is.
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EMB
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Post by EMB on Jan 23, 2017 20:28:55 GMT
If we are in the CHL next season, the objective should be to win 2 games (depending on format). the jump that getting out of the group would be, is too big IMO, not impossible, but a damn difficult task. Well if you have aspirations of winning 2 games then we ll need a team a dam sight better than this one . Even the worst ranked teams in that such as Stavander from Norway are world's better than Ritton . (Here comes EMB saying I'm writing them off already just like I did last weekend:) ) To even think about building a team to attempt to progress through the budget would have to increase ten fold. I hope he doesn't once again get distracted a tourney he has no chance of winning to the cost of a decent league campaign..again Funnily enough Ian I agree with you, the CHL is a different kettle of fish, isn't that where all the 'better' teams moved to rather than the conti cup? Hence a good reason why we stood a better chance of winning the tournament this time round. Watching all the matches in all three rounds I really didn't think that any of those teams were any better than the EIHL in fact we probably have better teams in our league. After all the write off's and poor performances it was just Sod's law that we would win that cup I just wish I'd had a bet. |
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Shorty
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Post by Shorty on Jan 23, 2017 20:36:19 GMT
Why are people suggesting we build on it, yet are also dismissing it as a tinpot trophy?
If the quality of the opposition was akin to Gardiner Conference teams, perhaps winning the Erhardt Conference would be acceptable as progression?
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nate24
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Post by nate24 on Jan 23, 2017 20:54:03 GMT
No matter what happens now this season is a success, anything else is a bonus. Important part of all this is next year and how this achievement is built upon, we cannot let it go to waste. Ha ha! Hey Gary/ Neil. Yeah seasons success because a tournament very few could go to is won. We pay for 60+ games a season and see effort in a dozen maybe, if we are lucky they maybe home games for maximum exposure. Teams and organisation is a joke. One trick pony. Yeah they did well to win the cup but other teams manage multiple successes why on Earth should we be happy with one! |
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Jan 23, 2017 23:00:58 GMT
No matter what happens now this season is a success, anything else is a bonus. Important part of all this is next year and how this achievement is built upon, we cannot let it go to waste. Ha ha! Hey Gary/ Neil. Yeah seasons success because a tournament very few could go to is won. We pay for 60+ games a season and see effort in a dozen maybe, if we are lucky they maybe home games for maximum exposure. Teams and organisation is a joke. One trick pony. Yeah they did well to win the cup but other teams manage multiple successes why on Earth should we be happy with one! Spot on Nate. If we end up 4th/5th in the league,lose in the Challenge cup semi final and don't make POFW then i certainly wouldn't call it a success. Even the entertainment level has been very low all season,how many exciting edge of your seat games have we had at the NIC.....about TWO at a push ? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2017 9:13:19 GMT
No matter what happens now this season is a success, anything else is a bonus. Important part of all this is next year and how this achievement is built upon, we cannot let it go to waste. Ha ha! Hey Gary/ Neil. Yeah seasons success because a tournament very few could go to is won. We pay for 60+ games a season and see effort in a dozen maybe, if we are lucky they maybe home games for maximum exposure. Teams and organisation is a joke. One trick pony. Yeah they did well to win the cup but other teams manage multiple successes why on Earth should we be happy with one! You're lucky I'm responding to this because of your asinine and juvenile first 2 sentences. It's not like they didn't want to host it so everyone could see it, they wanted the final round at the Arena! The fact it was held in the backsticks of Italy does not lie at the feet of the Panthers organisation. So the fact very few could go and witness us win does not diminish the achievement as you are implying. Your last paragraph takes a very short sighted view of things. Winning the Continental Cup is a bigger deal in terms of prestige and recognition for the Elite League as a whole (who have a responsibility of their own to build on this European success) and possibly, as mentioned previously in this thread, makes the Nottingham Panthers a more desirable destination for players next season in terms of us being Continental Cup Champions and (potentially) in the CHL. It has been very rare over recent history that we haven't acheived multiple successes in a single season, are we really that spoilt as a fanbase that this season would be deemed a failure should this be the only trophy we come away with? I'd like to think not. |
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