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Post by texpef on Jan 14, 2016 18:35:31 GMT
With their past record Yotes?... oh yes completely trustworthy then eh....
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
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Post by iginla on Jan 14, 2016 19:01:40 GMT
Well I certainly don't believe it Yotes.
I'd say the "hypothetical scenario" from NYRpanther is......SPOT ON though !
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Post by pantherdman on Jan 14, 2016 20:29:37 GMT
I've said it before, you can't have a gentlemans agreement with cads and scoundrels. Get a rule book or I will assume there are non.
There is nothing stopping anyone signing anyone if there is 2 weeks notice in a contract they can only stop them for 2 weeks and they will have to pay them still.
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Post by shmyrohdear on Jan 14, 2016 20:48:46 GMT
As far as rules go Sheffield haven't exactly done anything wrong by signing him. However making an approach through club/agent/player whilst under contract is surely breaching rules blatantly. You can't in any team sport just approach a player and given the direction the league wants to go in and the "professional" impression they wish to give, this shows nothing but a blissful ignorance to Sheffield's successful attempt to snatch a player up. Doesn't seem professional, seems pretty slimy after reading that. Would you like to provide a link to the rule that we have "blatantly" broken please? I'm not sure I've ever seen any rule that one team couldn't ask another team about a players availability. It's completely up to the other club what they want to do. He's a bad egg anyway, so what's it matter. At not one point did i say you had broken a rule. Merely speculated that in any professional level you do not get allowed to ask to take a player regardless. They are under contract and enquiring to club or player is highly unprofessional without a trade or compensation on the cards (trades i know are not even a thing here) but either way until the player is released no professional team should be allowed to be sniffing around players. What i am saying is you'd think with highly esteemed leagues around the world leading by this example we'd be trying to follow suit in that regard. I'm honestly not fussed about us not signing him, he's the last player I'd want in fowards aren't our concern at all, well done for aquiring the guy shows your intent to win, something I'm sure we're all salty about as we're yet to see it three years waiting still.
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Post by claretgiant on Jan 15, 2016 8:23:55 GMT
If you look at the official Caps press release there is no mention of Hayes being on 2 weeks notice. It states he had become increasingly unsettled and he had several offers over the last couple of months (from who no one knows) but that could have resulted in him becoming unsettled. I fully understand that these things can happen, but as mentioned on this thread something with this move just doesn't seem right. Then again if your owner is the league chairman, I'm sure this helps to paper over the so called "gentleman's agreement". So if a club throws enough money at a club with alleged money worries there will only be one outcome.
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Mozzy
Pat Casey
Cracking
Posts: 365
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Post by Mozzy on Jan 15, 2016 15:24:09 GMT
Can't be bothered to search for it, but I remember reading about a rule that no Elite League club was allowed to sign a player from another Elite League club without that club's permission. I think Mozzy's point is that Sheffield approached Edinburgh, rather than Hayes directly. I guess whether you believe that probably depends on how trustworthy you find the Steelers... Exactly my point.
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Mozzy
Pat Casey
Cracking
Posts: 365
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Post by Mozzy on Jan 15, 2016 15:28:35 GMT
If you look at the official Caps press release there is no mention of Hayes being on 2 weeks notice. It states he had become increasingly unsettled and he had several offers over the last couple of months (from who no one knows) but that could have resulted in him becoming unsettled. I fully understand that these things can happen, but as mentioned on this thread something with this move just doesn't seem right. Then again if your owner is the league chairman, I'm sure this helps to paper over the so called "gentleman's agreement". So if a club throws enough money at a club with alleged money worries there will only be one outcome. Still fail to see how this is different to any sport in this country. Things like this happen all the time in football. It doesn't matter what it's like in N America or Europe we are not in those places. When a player has a 2 week get out clause in his contract then, in reality, that contract means nothing. Sometimes it works for the club, other times the player. Pretty sure the league chairman can't change the rules without the agreement of all the other clubs. Gentlemans agreements are a load of cobblers anyway, much like the unwritten rule of not running the score up, utter rubbish.
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Post by ted logan on Jan 15, 2016 15:52:57 GMT
If you look at the official Caps press release there is no mention of Hayes being on 2 weeks notice. It states he had become increasingly unsettled and he had several offers over the last couple of months (from who no one knows) but that could have resulted in him becoming unsettled. I fully understand that these things can happen, but as mentioned on this thread something with this move just doesn't seem right. Then again if your owner is the league chairman, I'm sure this helps to paper over the so called "gentleman's agreement". So if a club throws enough money at a club with alleged money worries there will only be one outcome. Still fail to see how this is different to any sport in this country. Things like this happen all the time in football. It doesn't matter what it's like in N America or Europe we are not in those places. When a player has a 2 week get out clause in his contract then, in reality, that contract means nothing. Sometimes it works for the club, other times the player. Pretty sure the league chairman can't change the rules without the agreement of all the other clubs. Gentlemans agreements are a load of cobblers anyway, much like the unwritten rule of not running the score up, utter rubbish. That's a little bit contradictory Mozzy. On one hand you say 'it doesn't matter what it's like in North America or Europe as we are not in those places'. Yet, you try to back up your argument by saying 'things like this happen all the time in football'. Well, if it's nothing to do with North America or Europe, it's surely nothing to do with football either? We're not in those countries. We're not that sport. However, I do think it's all a bit storm in tea cup. To me, all the Steelers have done is prove that yet again they are 100% prepared to do whatever it takes to give their team the best chance of winning by improving their team/squad again. Fair play. We can only wish that our owner/GM will be so ambitious one day? That unwritten rule about running the score up? Utter cobblers as you say. Then again it was Simms that trotted that one out when we beat Edinburgh 10-1 a few seasons ago. Utter cobblers and Simms seem to go hand in hand.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
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Post by iginla on Jan 15, 2016 16:13:21 GMT
You're right Ted.
And I seem to remember in another article by Simmsey some time ago,where he spouted about tapping up or taking players from other teams,especially the smaller teams was not and should not be the done thing.
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Post by texpef on Jan 15, 2016 17:51:29 GMT
The only leverage the club has is the overseas player registration card which is only transferable if the club with it transfer it I am lead to believe so essentially he could have signed for Sheffield but not played, also this does not apply if he plays "abroad" ie back in the states which it seems he threatened to do if Edinburgh didn't release him. If as Edinburgh stated he had gone back to the states then they would have received nothing so at least "allowing" Sheffield to poach him they get something, hardly compensation for the leagues highest scorer but something so I guess that's why they had no choice but to release him once Sheffield applied the pressure...
Not good business practice in my eyes regardless of whether or not it is better for Sheffield and imho sends the wrong message to the league that if one of the so called smaller clubs signs a good player who performs over here don't expect to keep him if one of the bigger clubs wants him to play for them...
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Post by pantherdman on Jan 16, 2016 9:33:53 GMT
They basically brought him by paying his expenses. Fair play to them, poaching proven talent mid season.
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Post by jdizpt8 on Jan 16, 2016 13:22:27 GMT
Looking for a solid road game tonight, get an early marker and play smart hockey! Same intensity as last night just with slightly better passing. Panthers to win this one by a couple thanks to an ENG late on
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Post by kievthegreat on Jan 16, 2016 13:59:56 GMT
If you look at the official Caps press release there is no mention of Hayes being on 2 weeks notice. It states he had become increasingly unsettled and he had several offers over the last couple of months (from who no one knows) but that could have resulted in him becoming unsettled. I fully understand that these things can happen, but as mentioned on this thread something with this move just doesn't seem right. Then again if your owner is the league chairman, I'm sure this helps to paper over the so called "gentleman's agreement". So if a club throws enough money at a club with alleged money worries there will only be one outcome. Still fail to see how this is different to any sport in this country. Things like this happen all the time in football. It doesn't matter what it's like in N America or Europe we are not in those places. When a player has a 2 week get out clause in his contract then, in reality, that contract means nothing. Sometimes it works for the club, other times the player. Pretty sure the league chairman can't change the rules without the agreement of all the other clubs. Gentlemans agreements are a load of cobblers anyway, much like the unwritten rule of not running the score up, utter rubbish. www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-350661/Guilty-hit-hard-tapping-row.htmlClub fined £300k, manager and player £100k each. Directly contacting a player is strictly prohibited without authorisation.
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Post by pantherdman on Jan 16, 2016 15:08:18 GMT
If only we had rules
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 16, 2016 18:36:33 GMT
Only rule in any sport is to win.
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Post by craighead on Jan 17, 2016 9:47:51 GMT
We lost last night's game by one goal; he scored. No more need for this thread to continue for me . NB take note.
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Post by thebestpanthers on Jan 17, 2016 11:34:06 GMT
(/quote) Club fined £300k, manager and player £100k each. Directly contacting a player is strictly prohibited without authorisation.[/quote]
I seem to recollect that a footballer who wanted to leave one club to join another threatened to play so badly unless they let him leave, but the club to their credit refused and instead dropped him to the reserves. This could only work if the club has the money to do this - Money talks.
In the case of the EIHL there should be a ban on existing EIHL players being allowed to swap to another EIHL unless they have been released by their original team - The logic for this is that the original team would have taken the trouble to obtain the documentation and travel etc. - This should not stop a player from going abroad if possible but they should then be required to repay a percentage of the clubs costs - As I see it now, next season the smaller clubs will not want to sign any decent player as they will get poached half way through the season - Why bother.
There should also be another rule that prevents any player swapping teams from being able to play in any games against their previous team or in any competition which both teams are involved (in effect he cannot play again)
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nate24
Greg Hadden
Posts: 1,415
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Post by nate24 on Jan 17, 2016 11:51:14 GMT
People saying that the idea of sport is to win? That is correct but having a team with half the teams considerably weaker that the other just means the sport loses. The exodus in Edinburgh is a kick in the teeth for the sport.
We are a minority sport with no sponsor and probably not more than a season or two from collapse at any one point.
Either remove the weak teams or collaborate to support then get on their feet.
The Caps have been the same team for years, this season they had a glimour of hope and it is gone.
If it is because of their finances their long term viability needs a discussion, if it's because the players have been poached the big teams need to take a long hard luck at themselves.
Bottom line for me, this is five team league and a flimsy one at that. No rulebook, no real organisation and no direction. That needs to change. Todd Kelman would be my choice to drive a new era.
Maybe scrap the EIHL and start again.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 17, 2016 12:00:05 GMT
People saying that the idea of sport is to win? That is correct but having a team with half the teams considerably weaker that the other just means the sport loses. The exodus in Edinburgh is a kick in the teeth for the sport. We are a minority sport with no sponsor and probably not more than a season or two from collapse at any one point. Either remove the weak teams or collaborate to support then get on their feet. The Caps have been the same team for years, this season they had a glimour of hope and it is gone. If it is because of their finances their long term viability needs a discussion, if it's because the players have been poached the big teams need to take a long hard luck at themselves. Bottom line for me, this is five team league and a flimsy one at that. No rulebook, no real organisation and no direction. That needs to change. Todd Kelman would be my choice to drive a new era. Maybe scrap the EIHL and start again. I was told last night from a very reliable source that the Caps had to have a "come and buy" sale after the January meeting in order not to avoid problems so you might see more players go yet. The thing is that in the past it was worth the bigger teams proping up the likes of Hull etc (several extra home gates etc) but now there are other options on the horizon where it's thought the money can be better spent.
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Post by thebestpanthers on Jan 17, 2016 12:19:23 GMT
Caps have 17 games left this season - 4 of which are against Clan - not difficult to see who will be benefitting the most
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Post by ggggranville on Jan 17, 2016 15:24:09 GMT
People saying that the idea of sport is to win? That is correct but having a team with half the teams considerably weaker that the other just means the sport loses. The exodus in Edinburgh is a kick in the teeth for the sport. We are a minority sport with no sponsor and probably not more than a season or two from collapse at any one point. Either remove the weak teams or collaborate to support then get on their feet. The Caps have been the same team for years, this season they had a glimour of hope and it is gone. If it is because of their finances their long term viability needs a discussion, if it's because the players have been poached the big teams need to take a long hard luck at themselves. Bottom line for me, this is five team league and a flimsy one at that. No rulebook, no real organisation and no direction. That needs to change. Todd Kelman would be my choice to drive a new era. Maybe scrap the EIHL and start again. A five team league!. A little unfair on the Clan. They are probably one of only three teams that can win the league this year and with their run in must be favourites. That of course will please Mr Black with his love of Europe.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
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Post by iginla on Jan 17, 2016 15:33:40 GMT
Panthers,Sheffield,Belfast,Cardiff and Braehead......that's FIVE ggggranville.
Surely you weren't including Coventry !!!!! Lol
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Post by ggggranville on Jan 17, 2016 16:12:56 GMT
Sadly yes I was!!!
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Shorty
Paul Adey
Still here for Private Messages
Posts: 6,636
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Post by Shorty on Feb 2, 2016 17:59:45 GMT
And now release him.....
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Post by kezypanther on Feb 2, 2016 18:02:37 GMT
Think panthers will be tempted?
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