Dan
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Post by Dan on Jan 14, 2016 17:25:30 GMT
...All i'm saying is that until I see some kind of evidence that we're not spending what we can i'm going to look at the coaching being the issue... m.nottinghampost.com/Nottingham-Panthers-poised-start-season-import/story-26864821-detail/story.htmlThat do you? Black and white, starting (started) the season an import down. With underperforming Brits and injuries taking their toll that lack of investment has magnified as the season has progressed. We can go around in circles arguing that "you can't plan for injuries etc" but the top and bottom of it is ice hockey is a physical sport and injuries are a fact. Indeed, the last couple of seasons should have strengthened that view, so do the 'management' who are apparently so blameless not learn from their past? Start an import down, pick up injuries, remaining players try and pick up the slack, more injuries occur due to players being overworked...rinse and repeat until season is over. Do you know who was available at the time? Do you know what the wages of the existing players were? Do you know how much the Brits are earning? There's so much more to it than just number of players signed. IF we intentionally underspent then it's a problem, but it's not as black and white as you think. We may have just spent our money on quality than quantity...they just haven't performed. Bear in mind we have brought in Hardy, Lawrence and Madolora so far. It's not like we're sticking with what we have.
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Post by texpef on Jan 14, 2016 17:59:35 GMT
Oh come on Dan stop with the pointless arguments, of course there are plenty of imports available, it was the start of the season and its academic what the wages were panthers made profits when it was a full import ISL league am sure they can cope with 13 plus the brits (and that's not accounting for "spares" which our competitors started with).. No one is saying we underspent but ever since I have been watching hockey in the country its the imports that over a season win the games that win the league titles going one short "intentionally" was league success suicide... The pressure to bring those players in was immense and still is or should be.. we had lost both Schultz and Moran (as well as others) before we made a move for Lawrence which in all honesty fell in panthers lap i.e. he approached them rather than the reverse, the same with Malodora who again approached the club after a month of shoddy goalie results coming to a head with a shocking backup goalie performance against Coventry forcing the clubs hand.. Hardy was another who approached the club and again a "short term" contract that the club felt better to cut and again run short than wait till an adequate replacement was found (which still hasn't been incidentally)... This whole lot reminds me of the line in slapshot when the coach finds they have signed the hanson boys... It seems to me that the season was doomed to failure from the off by giving up at least one and in most cases several import players as compared to our rivals and this has been exacerbated as the season continues as it is clear to all this is one of the major problems and hasn't been addressed even now with only 20 games of the season left to play... As stated numerous times in the past we were one of the minnows making up league numbers watching the likes of sheffied sign the best brits and star imports but now we are an arena club with the best support which should translate to the biggest profits and hence biggest team budget which should allow for spare imports and injury cover WHEN THIS IS NEEDED not a month too late (or never). IMHO this season this has not been addressed anywhere near adequately yet history tells us when we do have cover the league is not beyond our reach (the season we did win we had quality like Beauregard as a spare as well as plenty of injury cover throughout)... I can only summise this has to be a money saving issue as why wouldn't we replace injured players let alone strengthen the squad and if this is the case then the only conclusion is the money is needed elsewhere and the league is not a priority for the management this season which goes against all the fans wishes (as can be seen from the other thread about priorities). If this is the case and I don't see any other explanation then my attendance for the remaining of this season at least will be mainly via twitter as I have watched plenty of losing panthers hockey (before Neilson but plenty with him too) to last a lifetime already....imho I have seen plenty of seasons already watching our rivals invest money on their squads and win leagues I want the same at panthers and why shouldn't I, if other teams can afford this surely the panthers can?..
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Shorty
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Post by Shorty on Jan 14, 2016 18:06:17 GMT
37 imports over the previous two seasons does not suggest we do not react.
Granted the quality or fitness of them has to be questioned, but you can't ignore the fact that last year we had 17 imports registered throughout the season and 20 the season before.
I do agree that we need another import defencemen now, and that cover for Shultz and Wiikman has not been addressed how it should have been.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2016 18:28:21 GMT
Eh? Of course there is!! If the priority of the club isn't to win the league every year then the priority is totally wrong. No there really isn't. Last years priority would have been to have a good showing in the CHL, by all accounts we did that. Year before the priority would have been a good showing in the Continental Cup, by all accounts we did that. It has long been known that Neil Black has always had a desire for the Panthers to compete in Europe, I have no doubt that is clearly where he would have told Corey to put his focus the last 2 years. As I have stated previously, this year yes the league should be the priority. BUT if it isn't, and Corey is just tasked with winning 1 of the 3 major trophies by the powers above who are we to judge him if he doesn't deliver the one we desire the most? We can grumble yes, but if he's meeting objectives that are set for him we can't really blame him. I believe you are just enhancing my point here. You've stated what you believe the priorities would have been for the past two seasons & I'm saying that they are the wrong priorities. You don't prioritise a Euro campaign over the league, it's a ridiculous idea. Especially when you have no chance of winning the thing. If you asked every fan on here what should the priority have been for the past two seasons then they would almost all have said the league. If Mr Black set those objectives for Corey then he's letting the fans down big style.
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Post by texpef on Jan 14, 2016 18:38:54 GMT
37 imports over the previous two seasons does not suggest we do not react. Granted the quality or fitness of them has to be questioned, but you can't ignore the fact that last year we had 17 imports registered throughout the season and 20 the season before. I do agree that we need another import defencemen now, and that cover for Shultz and Wiikman has not been addressed how it should have been. And I was clearly talking about a lack of imports THIS season shorty...
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Shorty
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Post by Shorty on Jan 14, 2016 18:58:33 GMT
I was replying to a previous post.
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Post by tootootrain on Jan 14, 2016 19:16:26 GMT
...but you can't ignore the fact that last year we had 17 imports registered throughout the season... And how many of those 17 were brought in just for the CHL? How many played few games because they arrived injured? The approach Panthers took with bringing in players specifically for the CHL was completely flawed, didn't allow the team to settle using the CHL as a means to gel and, given the quality of the opposition, was a futile gesture. A sprinkling of largely pre-season only short-termers does not an effective squad make. Largely they looked to have been using it for conditioning whilst keeping an eye on the door. Yes Panthers beat Hamburg in one game, big whoop. The headlong charge for CHL....what? What was the aim/purpose other than making up the numbers? Anyway, the overly heavy focus on the CHL for whatever reason, much like the deliberate choice to run an import short this season, put Panthers on the back foot before the first EIHL game was played. CHL? Neil's Folly more like it.
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Post by jdizpt8 on Jan 14, 2016 19:28:29 GMT
Not sure f anyone has looked at seat availablility but there are many many MANY free seats! I know it's still early days but if the club didn't shift many more it could be a very quiet (yes more then normal) night in the NIC
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2016 19:30:22 GMT
Not sure f anyone has looked at seat availablility but there are many many MANY free seats! I know it's still early days but if the club didn't shift many more it could be a very quiet (yes more then normal) night in the NIC Muhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!! It's working...... Maybe.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2016 19:54:38 GMT
No there really isn't. Last years priority would have been to have a good showing in the CHL, by all accounts we did that. Year before the priority would have been a good showing in the Continental Cup, by all accounts we did that. It has long been known that Neil Black has always had a desire for the Panthers to compete in Europe, I have no doubt that is clearly where he would have told Corey to put his focus the last 2 years. As I have stated previously, this year yes the league should be the priority. BUT if it isn't, and Corey is just tasked with winning 1 of the 3 major trophies by the powers above who are we to judge him if he doesn't deliver the one we desire the most? We can grumble yes, but if he's meeting objectives that are set for him we can't really blame him. I believe you are just enhancing my point here. You've stated what you believe the priorities would have been for the past two seasons & I'm saying that they are the wrong priorities. You don't prioritise a Euro campaign over the league, it's a ridiculous idea. Especially when you have no chance of winning the thing. If you asked every fan on here what should the priority have been for the past two seasons then they would almost all have said the league. If Mr Black set those objectives for Corey then he's letting the fans down big style. Some things are bigger than the league title. A decent showing in the CHL was imperative for the league as a whole. I also consider the Continental Cup highly attainable, and with a bit more look on the officiating front (weren't the refs celebrate with home team post game when we lost a few years ago?), so in my eyes that should be a priority if you're in it. All I ask for is a competitive team (which we get) and to be entertained (which we more often than not get), so I'm happy. Do I want us to win every game? 100%, but that's not the be all and end all for me.
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Jan 14, 2016 20:23:20 GMT
Come on Dan,you are clutching at straws and losing the argument badly against some very good posts above. I am almost coming to the conclusion that you are finding ways to pick an argument on purpose here.
And anybody who thinks we should be prioritising a four game,no hope CHL campaign over a full league season is completely wrong in my opinion. Even Moran thinks the CHL is a pain in the backside,it is Mr Black who is so pro Europe that we are suffering on that score.
GM doesn't call him "The Euro Snob" for nothing ! Lol
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Post by shmyrohdear on Jan 14, 2016 20:55:59 GMT
Not sure f anyone has looked at seat availablility but there are many many MANY free seats! I know it's still early days but if the club didn't shift many more it could be a very quiet (yes more then normal) night in the NIC Muhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!! It's working...... Maybe. You're like a budget bond villain
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Post by Gawdonbennett on Jan 14, 2016 20:58:43 GMT
Not sure f anyone has looked at seat availablility but there are many many MANY free seats! I know it's still early days but if the club didn't shift many more it could be a very quiet (yes more then normal) night in the NIC Muhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!! It's working...... Maybe. I had a look last night & must admit it did appear a bit sparse More chance for those who want to sit at the front though
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Jan 14, 2016 21:16:14 GMT
Something tells me blocks 8 and 17 are going to be full of teachers and kids ! Lol
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2016 22:18:12 GMT
Muhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!! It's working...... Maybe. You're like a budget bond villain More like Dr. Evil... Similar hairstyles
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Post by Gawdonbennett on Jan 14, 2016 22:20:22 GMT
I believe you are just enhancing my point here. You've stated what you believe the priorities would have been for the past two seasons & I'm saying that they are the wrong priorities. You don't prioritise a Euro campaign over the league, it's a ridiculous idea. Especially when you have no chance of winning the thing. If you asked every fan on here what should the priority have been for the past two seasons then they would almost all have said the league. If Mr Black set those objectives for Corey then he's letting the fans down big style. Some things are bigger than the league title. A decent showing in the CHL was imperative for the league as a whole. I also consider the Continental Cup highly attainable, and with a bit more look on the officiating front (weren't the refs celebrate with home team post game when we lost a few years ago?), so in my eyes that should be a priority if you're in it. All I ask for is a competitive team (which we get) and to be entertained (which we more often than not get), so I'm happy. Do I want us to win every game? 100%, but that's not the be all and end all for me. Losing 1 - 10 at home to Lulea was hardly a decent showing!! Not the players fault at all but we were heavily outclassed & the fact that we brought in short termers for the CHL (some of whom didn't turn up I recall) impeded the start to our league season. Higgins injured in this game too & I remember we struggled to get going in the league for some time after & were left playing catch up. There were less than 4000 in attendance so a less than enthralled public, & as such I recall sitting in 3 different places around the arena each period just to try the different viewing angles! Hamburg aside, which was a boon, this was a costly distraction for us as a club & our 'title chasing' season was hampered as a result...............but then it did raise the profile of the EIHL so it was an admirable sacrifice on our part I suppose! The league title has to be the top objective every season, without it you can't qualify for the CHL (save for a close 2nd perhaps). Until an EIHL team has any real chance of making reasonable progress in this competition I don't see it being a realistic priority for any club not just us, & if we do qualify this year I feel we should focus on putting together a team for the whole season & bring in players we intend to use in all competitions. It can't have done much for the esteem of those who were signed for the long haul to see others coming in just for the Euro adventure.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2016 22:34:33 GMT
Muhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!! It's working...... Maybe. I had a look last night & must admit it did appear a bit sparse More chance for those who want to sit at the front though
Ha, pick a seat, any seat.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2016 22:38:52 GMT
I believe you are just enhancing my point here. You've stated what you believe the priorities would have been for the past two seasons & I'm saying that they are the wrong priorities. You don't prioritise a Euro campaign over the league, it's a ridiculous idea. Especially when you have no chance of winning the thing. If you asked every fan on here what should the priority have been for the past two seasons then they would almost all have said the league. If Mr Black set those objectives for Corey then he's letting the fans down big style. Some things are bigger than the league title. A decent showing in the CHL was imperative for the league as a whole. I also consider the Continental Cup highly attainable, and with a bit more look on the officiating front (weren't the refs celebrate with home team post game when we lost a few years ago?), so in my eyes that should be a priority if you're in it. All I ask for is a competitive team (which we get) and to be entertained (which we more often than not get), so I'm happy. Do I want us to win every game? 100%, but that's not the be all and end all for me. Another point over this Euro thing. I recall hearing Corey constantly mention 'getting faster' for the competition & we signed what I would describe as mercenary players. We then ended going in to a league campaign with a squad who didn't know each others name & lacking toughness. Didn't work out too well in the league did it..... Then again, as you say, it possibly wasn't the priority so that's OK then.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2016 8:31:04 GMT
Some things are bigger than the league title. A decent showing in the CHL was imperative for the league as a whole. I also consider the Continental Cup highly attainable, and with a bit more look on the officiating front (weren't the refs celebrate with home team post game when we lost a few years ago?), so in my eyes that should be a priority if you're in it. All I ask for is a competitive team (which we get) and to be entertained (which we more often than not get), so I'm happy. Do I want us to win every game? 100%, but that's not the be all and end all for me. Another point over this Euro thing. I recall hearing Corey constantly mention 'getting faster' for the competition & we signed what I would describe as mercenary players. We then ended going in to a league campaign with a squad who didn't know each others name & lacking toughness. Didn't work out too well in the league did it..... Then again, as you say, it possibly wasn't the priority so that's OK then. As uninspiring as last years team was at times we were well in the title race until Cody Wild got injured in Coventry, that's when it went really tits up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2016 8:44:24 GMT
Some things are bigger than the league title. A decent showing in the CHL was imperative for the league as a whole. I also consider the Continental Cup highly attainable, and with a bit more look on the officiating front (weren't the refs celebrate with home team post game when we lost a few years ago?), so in my eyes that should be a priority if you're in it. All I ask for is a competitive team (which we get) and to be entertained (which we more often than not get), so I'm happy. Do I want us to win every game? 100%, but that's not the be all and end all for me. Losing 1 - 10 at home to Lulea was hardly a decent showing!! Not the players fault at all but we were heavily outclassed & the fact that we brought in short termers for the CHL (some of whom didn't turn up I recall) impeded the start to our league season. Higgins injured in this game too & I remember we struggled to get going in the league for some time after & were left playing catch up. There were less than 4000 in attendance so a less than enthralled public, & as such I recall sitting in 3 different places around the arena each period just to try the different viewing angles! Hamburg aside, which was a boon, this was a costly distraction for us as a club & our 'title chasing' season was hampered as a result...............but then it did raise the profile of the EIHL so it was an admirable sacrifice on our part I suppose! The league title has to be the top objective every season, without it you can't qualify for the CHL (save for a close 2nd perhaps). Until an EIHL team has any real chance of making reasonable progress in this competition I don't see it being a realistic priority for any club not just us, & if we do qualify this year I feel we should focus on putting together a team for the whole season & bring in players we intend to use in all competitions. It can't have done much for the esteem of those who were signed for the long haul to see others coming in just for the Euro adventure. What you have to bare in mind is that the CHL format is different from last year when we were in it, the games this year where pretty much out of the way before Sheffield or Braehead played a league game weren't they? Whereas in the inaugural competition we participated it ate into our league campaign for a stint. Given how it was last year I have no problem with it being prioritised, I wasn't there for the win over Hamburg (due to working) but by all accounts it was a special evening and due to us getting that win and not being the worst team in the tournament we earned the EIHL a 2nd wild card spot, so in my eyes it was worth it. Like I said, some things are bigger than the EIHL title. The league title should be a priority this year, I agree with that (I have haven't said anywhere I disagree with this) but as long as the team is competitive (i.e. in with a chance of winning everygame they play, which they are) and I am entertained (which I am more often than not) I'm happy.
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titch
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Post by titch on Jan 15, 2016 11:17:52 GMT
Can't believe how many empty seats there are. I doubt it's because of this thread though. The first leg of a quarter final while we're in such horrible form is going to produce such a low turn out. Maybe GM will introduce a discount on the tickets, 70% off for this one match!
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 15, 2016 11:19:56 GMT
Can't believe how many empty seats there are. I doubt it's because of this thread though. The first leg of a quarter final while we're in such horrible form is going to produce such a low turn out. Maybe GM will introduce a discount on the tickets, 70% off for this one match! Isn't it the same every year?
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Jan 15, 2016 11:25:22 GMT
I think a lot of season ticket holders probably always duck out of the CC games tbh, more from an economic standpoint than trying to make any sort of point.
It does look very empty at the moment - except for the freebie blocks (8 & 12) - but there's still time for it to fill out a bit. A decent showing this weekend would help.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 15, 2016 11:30:01 GMT
I think a lot of season ticket holders probably always duck out of the CC games tbh, more from an economic standpoint than trying to make any sort of point. It does look very empty at the moment - except for the freebie blocks (8 & 12) - but there's still time for it to fill out a bit. A decent showing this weekend would help. For the non Saturday night out crowd results matter and when you get silence for two periods and boo'ing there is bound to be a drop off at some point.
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Post by Bagheera on Jan 15, 2016 11:48:54 GMT
I know for a fact that some of the unavailable seats are also "club seats" given to people who work for the club in some way(similar to sponsors). There are 5 or 6 next to me which are barely ever sat in. Even at sell out games. Thats probably even less seats sold as yet.
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