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Post by whiskey1 on Jan 3, 2016 22:22:26 GMT
But we don't know the wage bills of EIHL teams, or indeed if there is a salary cap/fair play agreement in place. Otherwise we could just buy the league title every year. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong?
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jan 3, 2016 22:38:06 GMT
For the playing squad,about £15k per week at Panthers.....do the maths Whiskey1.
The top and bottom of it is. We could buy the league title easily if we wanted to,only Sheffield and Belfast could even remotely compete......but we choose to keep it competitive by not spending anywhere near what we could.
Would we want to buy it every year,NO of course not,but it would be nice to see Panthers at least not see us playing short benched or imports short like we have for each of the last three seasons.
Only one league title in god knows how many years says it all really !!!!
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nate24
Greg Hadden
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Post by nate24 on Jan 3, 2016 22:58:19 GMT
For the playing squad,about £15k per week at Panthers.....do the maths Whiskey1. The top and bottom of it is. We could buy the league title easily if we wanted to,only Sheffield and Belfast could even remotely compete......but we choose to keep it competitive by not spending anywhere near what we could. Would we want to buy it every year,NO of course not,but it would be nice to see Panthers at least not see us playing short benched or imports short like we have for each of the last three seasons. Only one league title in god knows how many years says it all really !!!! How do you know how much they pay?
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jan 3, 2016 23:33:03 GMT
Various reasons Nate,but that's for me to know and you to either believe or not.
But a Panthers very top earner is only on around £1000 a week,so even IF they were all paid the same (which the vast majority are nowhere near that) then that would only total £20k ish per week. The average cost of a decent import is only £500 - £700 per week,plus your top 3 or 4 earners,along with a couple of cheaper options and then your Brits. Therefore,if you said an average of £700 per week x 22 players and there is your £15k weekly player budget.
People think these guys are paid a lot of money,but the majority in the EIHL are not. Take tonight for example,Edinburgh had a crowd of a pathetic 550 against Sheffield,ask yourself how they can even afford to pay their players more than peanuts,yet they have several guys who would not look out of place in Panthers squad.
Or alternatively,go and Google "ECHL wages/salaries", the ECHL being where a lot of guys come here from (Schultz/Bohmbach for example) and I bet you will be very surprised how little an average hockey player earns !
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Caesar
Matt Myers
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Post by Caesar on Jan 3, 2016 23:49:07 GMT
Just out of curiosity, is that, as you say, slightly less than a grand a week in their pocket? ie, accommodation, car, food, etc. paid for, then basically just spending money?
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Caesar
Matt Myers
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Post by Caesar on Jan 4, 2016 0:01:54 GMT
WOW! Just googled it. The salary cap in the ECHL this year is $12,400 per week, that's about £8,400. And that's for a maximum squad size of 20 players.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jan 4, 2016 0:21:09 GMT
See,I told you Caesar. Now you can see what I have been rattling on about all this time,whilst people think I'm talking crap !
Panthers players get a salary,plus small win bonuses. The houses and cars are provided free,the only things they pay for are food,petrol,phones etc.
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Dan
Forum Admin
Boss
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Post by Dan on Jan 4, 2016 8:53:16 GMT
It's because we've been here a great many times, you start to lose faith after the 20th time we cockerel the title up at Christmas.
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Post by whiskey1 on Jan 4, 2016 9:33:19 GMT
I get what you're saying iginla, but still not convinced this shows that they're ripping fans off. In order to know that we'd need to know
A) if there is a salary cap in place (and if there isn't then I'd be more inclined to agree with you)
B) Are Panthers consistently running below this cap
Because if there is a cap and we're hitting it then any profit Panthers make beyond that is their business.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
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Post by iginla on Jan 4, 2016 10:04:12 GMT
There is no cap Whiskey1.
There used to be,but it was totally impossible to police because there are so many ways around it that it wasn't worth the paper it was written on.
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Post by ted logan on Jan 4, 2016 13:59:10 GMT
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 4, 2016 14:12:23 GMT
Bumper crowds = Bumper £££ - Good news all round Would be good to see some of that support now come from the ivory towers to have a REAL push for the second half of the season.
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Post by ted logan on Jan 4, 2016 14:17:23 GMT
Bumper crowds = Bumper £££ - Good news all round Would be good to see some of that support now come from the ivory towers to have a REAL push for the second half of the season. Exactly TFS
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2016 14:41:38 GMT
The crowds are a massive positive and shows a very strong business, however a good business will always re-invest to stay on top.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 4, 2016 16:18:18 GMT
The crowds are a massive positive and shows a very strong business, however a good business will always re-invest to stay on top. Even more so to get back on top to a position that a team as big as ours really needs to be.
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nate24
Greg Hadden
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Post by nate24 on Jan 4, 2016 17:15:02 GMT
I wish us fans who turn in weekend after weekend would give up so Moran would stop abusing our loyalty.
Arrogant self centred front office is killing the on ice product. They don't care about us. If you talk to GM or see him talking he always has to make an in joke so he feels superior. He has done a lot for the club but now he's just phoning it in whilst the fans part with the cash.
I'm guilty of not voting with my feet but my patience is wearing thin.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jan 4, 2016 17:40:34 GMT
If only we had ownership/management that had the same commitment as the fans......Panthers management stinks !!!!!
God I wish we could have a protest "stay away game" where the fans showed their feelings and hardly anybody turned up,i would dearly love to see Moran and Blacks faces if it happened.
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Dan
Forum Admin
Boss
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Post by Dan on Jan 4, 2016 17:58:25 GMT
My word, the anger at the front office has intensified over very little hasn't it?
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Post by cjmatt42 on Jan 4, 2016 18:38:48 GMT
manchesterstorm.com/message-from-the-gm/ Read this article earlier and thought where we might be as a club if there was as much interaction between club and fans? Braehead the other week provided another great example, supporters club chipped in to pay for flights for the team to Cardiff away having played at home in the Saturday. Team goes fresher and put on a performance on for those same fans. One team, one goal. Unfortunately protest stay away games don't come often as a season ticket holder but unless something changes dramatically in the next fortnight I'll be staying at home for Braehead in the cup.
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Neil
Jade Galbraith
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Post by Neil on Jan 4, 2016 18:40:16 GMT
Ah the attendance figures, in no way suspect.
I did a quick bit of research earlier in the season and alot of the crowds end with numbers that are either the shirt number of the MOM, a significant player in that game or spooky halloween figures.
Saturday saw the return of Schultz... 6014
A few ending with 55 when Cam has done something etc.
Figures available on the EIHL gamesheets.
All coincidence of course...
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 4, 2016 18:45:23 GMT
manchesterstorm.com/message-from-the-gm/ Read this article earlier and thought where we might be as a club if there was as much interaction between club and fans? Braehead the other week provided another great example, supporters club chipped in to pay for flights for the team to Cardiff away having played at home in the Saturday. Team goes fresher and put on a performance on for those same fans. One team, one goal. Unfortunately protest stay away games don't come often as a season ticket holder but unless something changes dramatically in the next fortnight I'll be staying at home for Braehead in the cup. You really have to take your hat off to the storm guys. Very personal and not even a hint of cheese in the entire article.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 4, 2016 19:13:29 GMT
If only we had ownership/management that had the same commitment as the fans......Panthers management stinks !!!!! God I wish we could have a protest "stay away game" where the fans showed their feelings and hardly anybody turned up,i would dearly love to see Moran and Blacks faces if it happened. Best protest ever. Fans wearing Panthers shirts with "End The BS" on the back instead of a players name. Win, win.
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dp
Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Jan 4, 2016 20:00:41 GMT
manchesterstorm.com/message-from-the-gm/ Read this article earlier and thought where we might be as a club if there was as much interaction between club and fans? Braehead the other week provided another great example, supporters club chipped in to pay for flights for the team to Cardiff away having played at home in the Saturday. Team goes fresher and put on a performance on for those same fans. One team, one goal. Unfortunately protest stay away games don't come often as a season ticket holder but unless something changes dramatically in the next fortnight I'll be staying at home for Braehead in the cup. I'm not sure Braehead supporters club paying for flights is a very good example given they're another owned by Black, and one of them - I think one of the Black brothers - said that Clan needed to average 2,000 per home game to break even and anything over that is profit. They're averaging over 3,000 now. Sure their costs will have increased because they've got a more expensive looking squad, but sponsorship will also have increased, and their travel costs will be lower now there's the conference system. There's no way Panthers are propping up Clan anymore - both clubs will be lining Black's pockets very nicely. Which is fine - but don't allow the supporters club to dip into their pockets to help the team travel!
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
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Post by iginla on Jan 4, 2016 20:34:00 GMT
Exactly Dp.
I know that GM was not happy a season or so ago when he found out how much spare cash the Panthers supporters club had. He felt it belonged to the Panthers as it was on their back it had been generated.
Other people may be able to shed more light on it,but I believe that was the beginning of the end for the Panthers supporters club.
Funny how it's obviously different with the supporters club in Braehead eh when Scrooge Moran is not dipping his sticky fingers into things !
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Post by Gawdonbennett on Jan 4, 2016 22:01:44 GMT
If only we had ownership/management that had the same commitment as the fans......Panthers management stinks !!!!! God I wish we could have a protest "stay away game" where the fans showed their feelings and hardly anybody turned up,i would dearly love to see Moran and Blacks faces if it happened. Best protest ever. Fans wearing Panthers shirts with "End The BS" on the back instead of a players name. Win, win. I couldn't see a 'stay away' protest working but maybe a late entrance to the game, say half way into the 1st period (or start of the 2nd)? It has been used effectively by many football fans as the start of any game has the most attention. If a point was wanting to be made I would think 1000 to 1500 or even 2000 fans making a late entry wouldn't go unoticed.
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