Why are "loyal" fans giving up already?

[titch]

After checking fixtures for all the realistic league winning teams for the rest of the season, we still have a massive amount of hockey to play against our league rivals. Why do most of our 'loyal' fan base seem to be a bunch of whiny depressed old folk? Is it because they're used to the Panthers doing this to them yearly? Or are they just depressive people outside of hockey too? So many fickle fans talking about giving up on the league title and fed up of watching the Panthers whenever we go through a "bad patch", although, it could be said with injuries and such, that we've not done too bad of a job throughout the massive bunch of away fixtures we've had and we're lucky to STILL be up near the top of the league.

As long as we are around 2-4 points away from the top of the league, we're not far away from being back at the top any time soon. Maybe stop the whining until it's mathematically impossible to win the league and just support the team like fans are supposed too? I understand the situation around GM being a top idiot and doing some questionable things, but the booing in previous games and the mass amount of constant negativeness about our team on here is disgusting! Buy your season tickets, support our boys on the ice and they will bring us results!

[Mark Mac]

Right, stop with this 'loyal fan' / 'true fan' / 'fickle fan' BS. It's getting ridiculous. On the Facebook group the moment anyone criticises the team it seems someone is ready to accuse them of not being a 'true fan'. Now it seems to have spread here. I could quite easily accuse you of being a happy-clapper, especially with your claim of 'support our boys on the ice and they will bring us results' (clearly this isn't the case), but I'm not going to do that as it would be unfair.

If you have bothered to read what people are complaining about, then you would have seen that the biggest complaints are a) we haven't got players in to cover long term injuries (we have the budget clearly AND multiple other teams across the league have), b) the coaching team continues to mix and match lines every game despite nearly no other coach across the world doing this and c) the Panthers organisation have more focus on new fans / money than the fans who have kept them going for years.

I don't think anyone expects the team to win every single game. There's been many posts in the Cage, let alone across other fan forums, stating how this year is the most competitive year we have had and that teams across the league can take point from any other team. Fans are frustrated because we are experiencing these problems that the organisation/coaching staff could do something about. Instead, nothing meaningful is happening. That is frustrating in any situation, but even more so when it's a team you support wholeheartedly and when you spend a lot of money to support them.

[Shorty]

I missed the game against Caps purely because we have not been able to sort our netminding out. I doubt my absence would make any difference, but to me it was justified. If it's not sorted before Cardiff we are asking for trouble. Mikka has not been fully fit since before the Scottish triple header, and if he is also likely to be missing for the birth of his child (which I do not begrudge him for) then cover should be sorted.

It was a tough decision not to attend a game that we would comfortably win, and see the return of Schultz, but rather than continually moaning I thought I would make my point by not going.

I fully expect them to have an additional neminder in early this week, and will happily take my seat for the Flyers game.

[Higgy]

Apathy down to us failing to cover injuries as this seems to happen most seasons.

Most cage posters have been going for a long long time and when similar things happen every year you start to lose faith somewhat!

People may 'complain' about the team but it is only because they care.

[Peacock]

Jan 3, 2016 9:53:26 GMT Higgy said:

People may 'complain' about the team but it is only because they care.

Yes, but for some it seems to be a patholgical character trait, regardless of the situation.

[Gawdonbennett]

I'm a little on the fence with this on one. Constructive criticism is fine but outright negativity is counterproductive. Sheffield had a dip at this stage last year and we know what happened after. There have obviously been a few issues other than injuries, coaching or whatever, but we do have to stick by the team and the club. They will feed off our positivity both in and out of the arena. In regard to our title chances our Panther (cat) has used 7 of its 9 lives. We need cover for Wiikman, a D, and a good run in starting from last night. We need to win as many games as possible against our title rivals both home and away & the team need our full support to do this. If they are trophyless at the end of the season but we have done our best as fans then we can hold our heads high as having the largest and most loyal fan base in the country. I too was bitterly disappointed with the game on New Years eve & I did voice my views elsewhere but last night was a new game & the begining of the rest of the season. It's way too early too give up so keep cheering. If you want to stay away fine, another 6000 were there instead to cheer for you ;-)

[dill1015]

Jan 3, 2016 8:11:42 GMT titch said:

After checking fixtures for all the realistic league winning teams for the rest of the season, we still have a massive amount of hockey to play against our league rivals. Why do most of our 'loyal' fan base seem to be a bunch of whiny depressed old folk? Is it because they're used to the Panthers doing this to them yearly? Or are they just depressive people outside of hockey too? So many fickle fans talking about giving up on the league title and fed up of watching the Panthers whenever we go through a "bad patch", although, it could be said with injuries and such, that we've not done too bad of a job throughout the massive bunch of away fixtures we've had and we're lucky to STILL be up near the top of the league.

As long as we are around 2-4 points away from the top of the league, we're not far away from being back at the top any time soon. Maybe stop the whining until it's mathematically impossible to win the league and just support the team like fans are supposed too? I understand the situation around GM being a top idiot and doing some questionable things, but the booing in previous games and the mass amount of constant negativeness about our team on here is disgusting! Buy your season tickets, support our boys on the ice and they will bring us results!

I dont know about you but ive followed this team my whole life. I went to my first game as a baby some 23 years ago and im still here.
Ive been through the days where we werent the big dogs of the league, ive made many trips up the A1 only to hear that horrible swoosh song far too many times, ive been through all those mid table finishes and failed cup games. Ive put thousands of pounds and hundrends of hours into this club.
And after all that im still here and i'll always be here as long as the team is. Thats what being a 'loyal fan' as you put it, is all about in my opinion. But while im here i will always have the right to call a spade a spade. It has not been good enough over the last month!!!

[kezypanther]

I'm with Mark Mac on this one.

The Facebook page seems to have gained a lot more traction and with that the newer fans are joining in the debate. This is where us negative numpties get slated for not being Loyal Fans.

All we want as fans is the best possible team on the ice with cover when needed. Starting an import short didn't help, Schultz long term injury didn't help and Wiikman playing injured didn't help. We as "loyal fans" only ask that whenever this happens we do ou best for what is necessary, in this case injury cover, which we didn't get. I would understand if we were getting 600 through the door but we are not.

Hopefully we are getting a NM for the Devils game because if not poo poo is going to hit the fan if we lose.

[Pies]

Maybe as a fanbase, we have come to expect to win every game. But as it has been pointed out, a lot of people came when we were terrible and the whipping boys of the league. So after a lot of us sat through that for years and paid our dues, watched a team of blue collar players who weren't skilled but they played for 60 minutes a game. I find it a little bit insulting when people say how we should act at a game when in fact without a lot of the posters and a couple of thousand others, there wouldn't be a team here for people to criticise.

[Mozzy]

If I may add my experience into this debate. Being a supporter of the club from up the M1, it is exactly the same on our forums\twitter\facebook etc.

I was there in the real heady days of the 90's when we swept all in front of us, I was also there in the mid 2000,s when we were poor and had loads of issues. It seems if you dare to criticise anything you get accused of "expecting to win every game". That is just completely untrue. I and others, just want the same as you, the ownership and coach to give the team the best chance of winning. That doesn't include running players short, jumbling lines around for the sake of it etc.

I've lost count of the number of times you see little posts on the forum or twitter after a lucky win saying, well that will shut the negative wallies up for a while. Even though it's pretty clear the win is only papering over the cracks!!

Nothing more frustrating when all the clappers around you are nicely cheering the team off the ice when they've just delivered the biggest pile of stinking you know what!! But, of course, if you don't clap you might not get your shirt signed by that nice hockey player.....

[cjmatt42]

Quite happy to admit to being one of those that booed on Thursday, those boos weren't directed at the team but more so at the management of the club.

From the first month or two of the season it's been clear this team had the potential to win the title but the management over the last month has been awful seeing a strong team not being supported with bodies when required.

The first big issue has been the failure to replace Schultz despite knowing he would be missing for a long period. Schultz is averaging better a goal every other game. In the 19 games he has missed you'd have expected a further 9 or 10 goals. In those 19 games we have lost 5 games by a single goal (excluding empty net goals). How useful would someone have been to fill that void. Take Sheffield for example. Fretter has now been ruled out for his second lengthy spell. First time Lawrence was picked up within a day or two and contributed a point a game as cover. This time a replacement has been picked up in a week with the points impact yet to be seen. For us we have done nothing. His return last night showed exactly what was missing. I appreciate that you were never going to get a like for like but anything would have been better than nothing.

It's been clear for the best part of a month that Miika hasn't been fit and we've done nothing about it. In that time we have dropped 4 points in Scotland where Wiikman let three or 4 quick goals in. 2 points to Cardiff again with Wiikman under the weather and shipping quick goals. 2 points in Sheffield with Green starting. 2 more with Wiikman starting in Coventry along with Green's shocker on Thursday. 14 points down the drain during a period we had goal tending issues. Again taking Sheffields response as a benchmark Pinc was picked up during the week after Plante was injured. While Pinc wasn't an immediate hit it showed intent. Us we went into 5 games in 7 days knowing Wiikman wasn't fit and put Green in the headlights of Sheffield on Boxing Day! That to me is criminal. Green I rate as the best back up in the league but that's what he is. Incapable of actually winning a game (by this I mean like Kwall won games on his own), capable of keeping you in some games (in all honesty if he keeps the opposition to 3 goals he has done a good job) but like we saw Thursday also capable of losing you a game in a period.

To me those two points above are enough for questions to be asked at management level. Even with half decent replacements I think as a minimum we'd be sitting on another 4 points but I really think up to another 8 or 10, particularly over the last month where we have struggled for goal tending and also missed Schultz on offence. One goal games in Sheffield and Coventry look like points gifted away.

For me I pay my season ticket money and in return expect to see us competing every night for the W. Thursday night before face off there was only going to be one winner. Injuries happen to less key players and with top quality goaltending our 5 man D plus offensive firepower would have won that game. By not addressing a three week old issue we gave that game up before we started.

[iginla]

For me it's all about the club not doing all it could to win,whilst at the same time watching our main rivals do all they can.

Money is no object to Panthers,but the constant seeming penny pinching,whilst at the same time screwing every last penny they can get from the loyal fans really grates with me and makes me think why do I bother always giving my best when my team don't ?
Look at it this way,the money generated from five home games we have against Sheffield will be very close to covering the whole player wage bill for the season,so that leaves one heck of a lot of money left from all the other 30 or so homes games.
Apart from arena hire,which is the only other big cost,where the hell does all that go ?

If this year was a one off with injuries,you could give them the benefit of doubt,but it isn't and it's happened virtually every year bar the grand slam season.
Yet Panthers just never seem to learn,they make the same old mistakes again and again,year in year out and that to me is sloppy and complacent.

The phrase that always comes to mind is this.
"If only Panthers management cared as much about winning and put as much effort in as their loyal fans do,then we would be one heck of a team".

Sadly.....they don't !!!

[ted logan]

Some great replies to the OP.

I get so hacked off with the 'loyal fan/true fan' BS. So, any fan that pumps hundreds/thousands of pounds into the Panthers and attends every game isn't a 'loyal fan' because they may come on here or Facebook/Twitter to voice their opinions/concerns about the club.

For 60 minutes every game, I'm 100% behind the team. I forget about my moans about our egomaniac GM, he's irrelevant once the puck drops. I don't berate CN about his tactics/Lines. Once the game is over then I may have a gripe about stuff, either to my mates or Logan Jnr or on here.

I suspect many fans take the same view? If that means we aren't 'true fans/loyal fans' then we may as well just close the forum.

[Bagheera]

Firstly I suggest you take mental illness a little more seriously instead of using it to insult people. I don't think you'd use many other ilness/disability to insult people.

On to your other point. You are making a mistake in asuming the people critising performances and tactics on here are also people not supporting the team on match night. O.k so i'm not a consistantly negative poster but I have had a good whinge this last week. At a game I shout and scream in support of the team most of the night(you will never here me boo the team). However like many after the game I will analyse and critic the performance. Good or bad. At the munute I have a major issue with the coaching decissions.
I went to my first game when I was 3 or 4 am now in my early 30s, have attended 95% of home game the last 17 years and had a season ticket the last 10 years. Does that make me more of a fan, a more loyal fan, a more passionate fan? No. And i don't pretend to be. But just because you don't critise anything the team does at any point doesn't make you a more "loyal fan" either.
Some people just like to discuss the pros and cons. And paying fans have a right to an opinion.
You'll be telling me next your more of a fan because you wear a Panthers shirt to a match.

[Mozzy]

Jan 3, 2016 14:43:06 GMT ted logan said:

Some great replies to the OP.

I get so hacked off with the 'loyal fan/true fan' BS. So, any fan that pumps hundreds/thousands of pounds into the Panthers and attends every game isn't a 'loyal fan' because they may come on here or Facebook/Twitter to voice their opinions/concerns about the club.

For 60 minutes every game, I'm 100% behind the team. I forget about my moans about our egomaniac GM, he's irrelevant once the puck drops. I don't berate CN about his tactics/Lines. Once the game is over then I may have a gripe about stuff, either to my mates or Logan Jnr or on here.

I suspect many fans take the same view? If that means we aren't 'true fans/loyal fans' then we may as well just close the forum.

That's spot on for me Ted.

I think Chris Holt on a recent Clan podcast got it right. They were talking about booing players during the game, his response was "if it bothers the players then they are in the wrong profession".

So, I'm pretty sure people having a gripe on here or other forums\social media has zero effect on the players like some seem to think it does.

[Mozzy]

Jan 3, 2016 14:44:38 GMT Bagheera said:

Firstly I suggest you take mental illness a little more seriously instead of using it to insult people. I don't think you'd use many other ilness/disability to insult people.

Not really fair, I'm pretty sure the OP wasn't trying to insult anyone with their initial post.

Being on tablets for depression myself, I think I know what it means and it certainly didn't offend\insult me.

[iginla]

I don't get that train of thought Mozzy.

I'd say if getting booed didn't bother a player.....then it's him that's in the wrong profession !

[BlogFromBlock15!]

Jan 3, 2016 14:10:58 GMT iginla said:

For me it's all about the club not doing all it could to win,whilst at the same time watching our main rivals do all they can.

Money is no object to Panthers,but the constant seeming penny pinching,whilst at the same time screwing every last penny they can get from the loyal fans really grates with me and makes me think why do I bother always giving my best when my team don't ?
Look at it this way,the money generated from five home games we have against Sheffield will be very close to covering the whole player wage bill for the season,so that leaves one heck of a lot of money left from all the other 30 or so homes games.
Apart from arena hire,which is the only other big cost,where the hell does all that go ?

If this year was a one off with injuries,you could give them the benefit of doubt,but it isn't and it's happened virtually every year bar the grand slam season.
Yet Panthers just never seem to learn,they make the same old mistakes again and again,year in year out and that to me is sloppy and complacent.

The phrase that always comes to mind is this.
"If only Panthers management cared as much about winning and put as much effort in as their loyal fans do,then we would be one heck of a team".

Sadly.....they don't !!!

Ignila has hit the nail on the head.

The only things I want to add is that the thing that frustrates me the most is that when the management decides we can no longer win the league (usually sometime in January) then the players coast every since game, stop throwing hits and generally go through the motions.

I can take losing, but only when we've given 100% and often in losing seasons they don't after Christmas. I put all the effort in at my end, £1200 for three season tickets, buy the shirt, beer on match nights and 50/50 tickets. Doesn't ever feel like its reciprocated.

I have been a season ticket holder for 5 years. I, at times, feel like we won the league in spite of the coaching and management because we had enough players who led by example and were skilled enough to win games on their own.

And I know some will say the coach hires the players, but take a look at this season, best squad in a few years and they can still cockerel it up due to continual line changes and absurd fixture decisions.

But hey, as long as we are sold out against the Steelers that's OK......

[Deleted]

Jan 3, 2016 14:10:58 GMT iginla said:

For me it's all about the club not doing all it could to win,whilst at the same time watching our main rivals do all they can.

Money is no object to Panthers,but the constant seeming penny pinching,whilst at the same time screwing every last penny they can get from the loyal fans really grates with me and makes me think why do I bother always giving my best when my team don't ?
Look at it this way,the money generated from five home games we have against Sheffield will be very close to covering the whole player wage bill for the season,so that leaves one heck of a lot of money left from all the other 30 or so homes games.
Apart from arena hire,which is the only other big cost,where the hell does all that go ?

If this year was a one off with injuries,you could give them the benefit of doubt,but it isn't and it's happened virtually every year bar the grand slam season.
Yet Panthers just never seem to learn,they make the same old mistakes again and again,year in year out and that to me is sloppy and complacent.

The phrase that always comes to mind is this.
"If only Panthers management cared as much about winning and put as much effort in as their loyal fans do,then we would be one heck of a team".

Sadly.....they don't !!!

I'm often torn on your posts Iginla but this is spot on matey. 

[Mark]

Jan 3, 2016 14:10:58 GMT iginla said:

For me it's all about the club not doing all it could to win,whilst at the same time watching our main rivals do all they can.

Money is no object to Panthers,but the constant seeming penny pinching,whilst at the same time screwing every last penny they can get from the loyal fans really grates with me and makes me think why do I bother always giving my best when my team don't ?
Look at it this way,the money generated from five home games we have against Sheffield will be very close to covering the whole player wage bill for the season,so that leaves one heck of a lot of money left from all the other 30 or so homes games.
Apart from arena hire,which is the only other big cost,where the hell does all that go ?

If this year was a one off with injuries,you could give them the benefit of doubt,but it isn't and it's happened virtually every year bar the grand slam season.
Yet Panthers just never seem to learn,they make the same old mistakes again and again,year in year out and that to me is sloppy and complacent.

The phrase that always comes to mind is this.
"If only Panthers management cared as much about winning and put as much effort in as their loyal fans do,then we would be one heck of a team".

Sadly.....they don't !!!

Agree entirely. No club fills their arena or rink as often as the Panrhers. Nobody else can call on such a large guaranteed fanbase. It's a fair assumption we generate more capital than any other club, we should be ultra competitive, difficult to beat, every time we take to the ice. We are not.

[Yotes]

Although I agree that it's too early to give up on the league title, for fans who've maybe been going 20+ years I think their loyalty is beyond reproach.

[shmyrohdear]

Jan 3, 2016 8:28:15 GMT Mark Mac said:

Right, stop with this 'loyal fan' / 'true fan' / 'fickle fan' BS. It's getting ridiculous. On the Facebook group the moment anyone criticises the team it seems someone is ready to accuse them of not being a 'true fan'. Now it seems to have spread here. I could quite easily accuse you of being a happy-clapper, especially with your claim of 'support our boys on the ice and they will bring us results' (clearly this isn't the case), but I'm not going to do that as it would be unfair.

If you have bothered to read what people are complaining about, then you would have seen that the biggest complaints are a) we haven't got players in to cover long term injuries (we have the budget clearly AND multiple other teams across the league have), b) the coaching team continues to mix and match lines every game despite nearly no other coach across the world doing this and c) the Panthers organisation have more focus on new fans / money than the fans who have kept them going for years.

I don't think anyone expects the team to win every single game. There's been many posts in the Cage, let alone across other fan forums, stating how this year is the most competitive year we have had and that teams across the league can take point from any other team. Fans are frustrated because we are experiencing these problems that the organisation/coaching staff could do something about. Instead, nothing meaningful is happening. That is frustrating in any situation, but even more so when it's a team you support wholeheartedly and when you spend a lot of money to support them.

And they have also been wanting Green sacked after one bad period,the majority on that group are not complaining about lack of injury cover, they're whining over petty stuff and bashing players who have a second of bad play. This season has seen parts of our fanbase turn into morons over pretty much nothing. Happy clappers that are only supportive when we win then go into melt down when we don't. Granted it's a select minority but they are still creating a negative atmosphere and bashing fellow fans for speaking their minds as well the whole thing is hypocritical. However i do agree about the marking of "true fans" we are all fans regardless but people do need to calm down and take a look at the standings and realise we are far from out of the race we are still dright up there a couple of wins and we're in a good position. I'm staying positive, this team even with our injuries has the ability to win big games. Some players are leaving it all on the ice and leading by example. Onwards and upwards, let's see how the next few weeks pan out and i think everyone will pull together and get behind yhis team. I mean seeing almost a sell out against the Caps shows the backing of most of our fanbase.

[Ian]

Jan 3, 2016 15:38:58 GMT BlogFromBlock15! said:

I, at times, feel like we won the league in spite of the coaching and management because we had enough players who led by example and were skilled enough to win games on their own.

I think these are some of the truest words I've ever read on this forum. Those were exactly my thoughts at the time and they haven't changed.

[whiskey1]

I just sometimes wonder if it is as bad as some on here make out. I mean we're still in a decent league position and have just got Schultz back from injury. I always wonder what the opinion of the majority of fans is like compared to a lot of posters on here. Not saying anyone is right or wrong, and everyone is entitled to an opinion. But as much as we want a winning team, it's also a business. And I don't think anyone can fault Panthers for wanting as many bums on seats as possible which they've done over the festive period. I do think that there are aspects of the organisation that could be improved (marketing, communication, the website etc) and some business decisons are questionable (not signing replacement imports etc) but I'm not sure if I believe there are cynical forces at play aiming to dupe fans out of their money. And if you do truly believe that, why would you still go and watch?

[iginla]

We are still in a decent position yes.
However,we could have been in a much better position had the Panthers management done what they should have much earlier.

It certainly should not be a money thing either.
I have just looked and in the last 8 home games there have been over 50,000 fans at the NIC.....that is some £600,000 plus in ticket revenue alone in only two months.

To put it in perspective,that is not much less than both Cardiff and Coventry would generate from home crowds in a WHOLE SEASON !!!!!!!